Talk:Event Horizon (film)/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Talk page Archived

Archive 2 has been created. --CaptainNtheGameMaster (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Latin

The Latin currently in the plot summary of the article is from a copy of the script that I was able to find online here. If editors wish to change the Latin, they should provide a verifiable source establishing that what's said in the film is different. Closed-captioning would be insufficient as it often is not a 100% match to what is actually said. Similarly, forums are not reliable sources. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 04:58, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Forgive me but I am having trouble interpreting this as a good faith edit. It is firmly obvious that the movie deviates from the script in this instance. Editing the article to suit a shooting draft script, the dialogue of which was obviously not used for the final cut, intentionally introduces inaccuracies to the article. Not only that, but the current version of the Latin dialogue as presented in the article, neither matches the actual movie dialogue nor does it match the script you have linked. I have to ask, have you watched the movie? Missing a verifiable source to the Latin words used in the movie's dialogue is NO excuse to cite an inaccurate source. --Ifrit (Talk) 19:13, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

We could take the Latin out entirely if you'd prefer? Alternately, can you present a verifiable source yourself? We can't edit the plot summary based solely on what we think we're hearing, nor can we use closed-captioning. In any event, it's rather inappropriate to imply my edit is bad-faith when I was at least trying to use the appropriate wording based on a source rather than "this is what I heard". I would say given how contentious the Latin has proven to be, not quoting it at all may be preferable to putting in an unsourced version of it which could just be disputed by other editors. DonIago (talk) 02:51, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

You were trying to use "appropriate wording based on a source", but it's an inaccurate source. This dialogue was not used in the movie. We shouldn't base what's in the article based on what Latin it SHOULD have been if it was correct Latin, or what Latin it COULD have been had the Latin in the script you found been used. We should base it purely on fact. For the record, I'm yet to make a single edit to the article personally. Also, a quick Google search and I found this. Would you say this is an untrustworthy source? --Ifrit (Talk) 11:52, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

That source actually says at the bottom that most phrases were taken from Wikipedia, so, pardon my French, but hell yes it's untrustworthy. :p

I'm amenable to the notion that the source currently used is inappropriate, but I still feel our best options at that point are to either provide a more accurate source, if one exists, or eliminate the use of the Latin entirely; we can certainly rewrite the plot to avoid that point if necessary. DonIago (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

You said forums are not reliable sources, I admit I have to agree - but the online script draft you provided as source is perhaps even less so.

The script reads:

They thought it said, "Liberatis me," "Save me," but it's not "me." It's "tutemet:" "Save yourself."

but that does not match what is said in the movie itself. That particular scene is available on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJAFuEuBqsE. Check the dialog at 0:09s. It says (emphasis mine where the dialog diverges from the script draft):

I thought it said, "Liberate me," "Save me," but it's not "me." It's liberate "tutemet:" "Save yourself."

Notice the second instance of liberate, at 0:18s. It's very clear. There is no ambiguity.

That's an excerpt from the movie, and all you need is 1) to hear it once, or twice, at most; and 2) to be open to admit you were wrong. (If you can't hear it for any reason, I apologize for not being able to provide a source in the form of text, but please consider trusting we the other wikipedians on this one, as you have been single-handedly maintaining the incorrect version).

If we leave the incorrect form "liberatis" we are bound to have more future readers attempting to correct it (and being reverted) which only frustrates everyone. Marc.2377 (talk) 05:18, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Firstly, I never claimed I was right. I believe the only claim I've made is that the source I provided is the best non-primary source I've been able to find thus far.

I'm sorry, but given the number of times the Latin has been edited in this article, I'm not comfortable editing it if the best rationale we can come up with is "this is what I hear". As I said before, I think we either need to provide a source which we can refer back to, or consider removing it altogether. If we do edit it on the grounds of "this is what we hear", how long will it be before another editor changes it claiming that they heard something different? I don't feel we should invite that kind of debate. I think it's worth questioning whether the mis-hearing of the Latin is really relevant to the overall plot in any case. It's a nice beat in the film, but do we think things would progress any differently otherwise? DonIago (talk) 16:06, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, I agree then. I found some (written) sources that support what I think is the correct dialog. Don't have them at hand now. Will update here when I do have time to check them carefully. --Marc.2377 (talk) 06:43, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Awesome; thanks! DonIago (talk) 14:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Finally. The script (more precisely, a transcript) I found is: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/event-horizon-script-transcript-neill.html. I was gonna ask if you believe that counts as a non-primary source, but, for some reason unclear to me, the site is blacklisted from Wikipedia, so I'm not sure we can use it. From my part, if it matters, I checked some excerpts against the movie and they are accurate even in cases where the DVD subtitles are not. Let me know of your thoughts. Marc.2377 (talk) 04:24, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

It's blacklisted per WP:LINKVIO, in that it's hosting copyrighted works (i.e. the transcripts). Link. That said, if you believe this is more accurate than what we have currently, since we can at least say from where we're getting it, I'd be okay with it. I only used the source I used because it was the best I could find at the time. DonIago (talk) 05:42, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I'll go ahead and change it. Marc.2377 (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2019 (UTC)