Talk:Elrond/Archive 1

Herald

I favor more information from the original character source, here it's the book not the movie. So I removed conjectural facts related to "movie Elrond" -- specifically, his role as herald to Gil-galad (Gil-galad is never even mentioned by name). There's also no evidence that "movie Elrond" would only allow Aragorn to wed Arwen only if he became king. Besides, that's more movie-related info than is warranted here. The rest of this article has major factural errors too, which I will get to soon. Alcarillo 19:55 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I, too, can find no evidence for this notion. I removed the line about Elrond being Gil-galad's herald pending further evidence. In "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," Elrond and Gil-galad are described almost on equal terms—in addition, he had already broke off on his own and founded Rivendell by the time of the Dagorlad battle. Unless Tolkien later made changes, it seems unlikely that he would have been serving as a mere herald. --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 23:27, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host." That's at the The Council of Elrond chapter. Aris Katsaris 23:41, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, gee. (It still seems sort of bizarre to me. Perhaps the position was one of greater authority than we would associate with the term.) --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:15, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The elvish herald-king relationship was probably modelled on the one of Eonwe and Manwe. So I think the elves would see this as a pretty important position. 62.178.118.156 (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Elrond was deffinitly Gil-galad's herald.

Suggested Family Tree Change

The Aragorn-Arwen family tree should have more emphasis on Elrond's ancestry, or at least mention Elrond and Aragorn's common ancestor Earendil.

It should be pointed out that in Elrond the high royal lines of both Noldor and Sindar/Teleri merged, and that Elrond was next in line for both. Elven kingdom apparently did not always strictly follow the bloodline, but it was usually honored. The ME Noldor did not crown another high king after Gil-galad's death, and the Sindar had never really restarted their high kingdom after the fall of Doriath, but I think it is quite likely that this is actually the main reason why Elrond became so important, and much older Noldor princes such as Glorfindel (and, to some extent, even Galadriel) deferred to him, although he was not even a calaquendi. Also Cirdan. (The article goes on about how old Elrond was, when it should emphasize instead that he was really the upstart among the important elves.) 62.178.118.156 (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible copyright violation?

An anonymous user at 70.181.69.136 recently added some text to this article that appears to be taken from this site. This may be a violation of the site's copyright, unless the anon is the copyright holder. I've reverted it for now, and if the anon is the copyright holder he or she can restore the text. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Elrond's missing 10%...

About his ancestry : 27.5% human + 56.25% elvish + 6.25% maia = 90% Elrond... Where's the rest of him gone??? --IronChris 08:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Elrond's ancestry is actually 37.5% human, 25% Sindar, 25% Noldor, 6.25% Teleri, 6.25% Maiar... based on father Earendil being 50% Noldor (Idril) / 50% human (Tuor) and mother Elwing being 50% Sindar (Nimloth) / 25% human (Beren) / 12.5% Teler (Thingol) / 12.5% Maiar (Melian). So just an error on the percentage of human ancestry. That said, these percentages can be rather misleading as he was (in another sense) 100% peredhil and then, after choosing, 100% elf. --CBDunkerson 01:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it true that Elrond and Elros are the first children of all three elf houses and all three human houses (together)? If so, perhaps this is significant enough to be added. (Also noting the Maia connection, of course.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.76.232 (talk) 22:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Elrond's birth year

I could not find F.A. 525. Please show me where it exist. --RedDragon 15:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Dates for events in the First Age are derived from material published after Tolkien's death by his son in the multi-volume History of Middle Earth. I think in this case, the dates derive from the eleventh volume, The War of the Jewels, but I do not own this and am unable to supply a citation. Perhaps someone who has the book at hand can do so? The website Encyclopedia of Arda gives his date of birth as 532 FA. 70.189.85.237 (talk) 07:23, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

racism

Hi, If you don't mind, I will put elrond in category:fictional racists since in one part of the fellowship of the ring he claims that humans are not worthy

While a case could be made for 'movie Elrond' being a 'racist' in some degree (though he apparently repented of his views) the 'anti human diatribes' simply do not occur in the book. Far from having a low opinion of Aragorn... book Elrond actually raised Aragorn as his foster son. Thus, I don't think the category is appropriate as it doesn't fit the primary character. --CBDunkerson 01:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC

do you mean repent as in feel sorry, remorse or change his mind?

Feeling sorry for wrongdoing is contrition. Repentance is changing behavior to remedy a past wrong. Elrond as portrayed in the Peter Jackson film does the latter. 70.189.85.237 (talk) 07:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Elrond11.jpg

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Twins?

Are Elrond and Elros twins? Elros' page states this, but I can't find a reference to this anywhere else. Ttenchantr (talk) 20:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, They are the twin son's of Earendil and Elwing. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 07:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a reference? Ttenchantr (talk) 04:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

It's in The Silmarillion. De728631 (talk) 09:34, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a page number, so it can be cited here? Ttenchantr (talk) 19:38, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, searching the Silmarillion only returned the phrase "brothers", but have a look at Timeline of Arda#Years of the Sun in the First Age where a comment says in year 502 of the First Age that all further dates in that list were taken from The Tale of Years of the First Age: J. R. R. Tolkien (1994). Christopher Tolkien (ed.). The War of the Jewels. Boston & New York: Houghton Mifflin. pp. 342–354. ISBN 0-395-71041-3., which includes "532 - Elrond and Elros are born to Eärendil and Elwing". I don't have that book so I can't look it up but The Encyclopedia of Arda states that too. So, as E. and E. were born in the same year they must have been twins, regarding the long gestation period of elves. Cf. the note in Elladan and Elrohir. De728631 (talk) 20:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I cannot at this moment lay my hands on a precise source, but yes, they are twins. Twins are common in their Telerin background. Thingol (Elwë) was the twin of Olwë. Elwing's older brothers, Elrued and Elruin, were twins. Elrond's sons, Elladan and Elrohir, are twins. 74.215.117.149 (talk) 13:43, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Elrond

is elrond stronger than celeborn or galadriel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.117.244.180 (talk) 16:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Difficult question. Celeborn is considered to be accounted "the wisest elf in middle-earth", and Galadriel is older, far older than Elrond and has the supposed power of telepathy. Elrond however is descended partly from the Maia Melian and who knows what power is gained from that.

It's not a question we could ever answer I think. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 17:49, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Galadriel has been specifically described as the mightiest of the Elves. Aidoflight (talk) 18:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

But then Elrond is not exactly an Elf. Elphion (talk) 18:32, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed...but there is neither evidence that a human-elf hybrid, even one as Elrond, has skill or power to dwarf that of the Elves themselves. Aidoflight (talk) 21:38, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

There isn't any evidence either way. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 06:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as Celeborn seems a useless git, Elrond can be said to be stronger than him, anyway. Ttenchantr (talk) 19:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

What makes you think that Celeborn is a useless git? E.g. it was his idea to fortify Lórien in the Second Age against Sauron's attempts to cross the river Anduin. Even his mighty wife considers him to be the wisest of all elves in Middle-earth. Apart from that, this whole discussion seems moot to me per Carl Sixsmith's reasoning and because I don't see a point in comparing Elrond to Galadriel in the first place. De728631 (talk) 21:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

If Tolkien has not said so, then the answer is: the strongest one is whichever you want. Now, I remind that the talk page of Elrond is for discussing Elrond's article, not the character Elrond itself. MBelgrano (talk) 23:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Galadriel was born in Valinor in the time of the Two Trees. She is a caliquendi, mentored by the Valar. She is immeasurably more powerful than her much younger cousin, born at the Havens of Sirion after the fall of Doriath and the withdrawl of Melian. Elrond never knew his Maia great-great grandmother. Galadriel was mentored by her, personally. Galadriel is formidable.74.215.117.149 (talk) 13:48, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was Merge. Jack Upland (talk) 22:37, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

---

I propose that Celebrían be merged here. She is not a major character. Her article is just a stub, and the information is duplicated here.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

• Merge She is not really a character at all. At least not in any work that is significant at all. She is a background person in major works.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:301:4360:94C5:76EE:85BC:1CE7 (talk) 03:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Elf-friend to elf

In the Hobbit Elrond is called "an elf-friend, desceded from heroes of the north and elves", as opposed to explicitly being an elf. More should be said about his development as a character in this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:02, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

The problem is that most of these article are in-universe and try to ignore this is fiction.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes. The citations that are missing are the scholarly criticism. There is a vast scholarly literature that the fan-editors of the pre-2010 Wiki-articles seem to have been largely unaware of. What we need to do now is to get rid of the in-universe accounts and replace them with something based on scholarship. That requires a substantial amount of time and work but the result will be far more satisfactory. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:23, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

"Elerondo" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Elerondo. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Hog Farm (talk) 21:10, 4 March 2020 (UTC)