Talk:East Williamsburg, Brooklyn

Boundaries

I'd feel comfortable setting the boundaries of East Williamsburg as anything north of broadway, west of Graham, and East/Southeast of the highway as East Williamsburg. Bushick is anything east of graham [1], and to walk around the nieghborhood you'd agree. besides, everyone renting a loft (band people and artist) would rather say they live in Bushwick than williamsburg now anyway, because crappy williamsburg is now filled with investment bankers.

I plan to make some changes in the coming days.

I don't have time to go over your edits now, but I oppose. The East Williamsburg Industrial Park has been named on Johnson Av., Morgan Av. and Grand St. for as far back as the early-1990s as I can remember, and I can imagine earlier than that. I saw one source that said the "East Williamsburg" term went into Queens at one point, but is now obsolete. Also, if you look at the NYC community board listings, all of East Williamsburg is in CB1, Buswick is in CB4, so EW resources are really shared among Williamsburg and Greenpoint, not Bushwick.

Furthermore, we need to have multiple opinions other than yours or mine. (And don't use sockpuppets, please.) I created the article because I saw the area as a transition between Williamsburg (North Side and South Side) and Bushwick, but not exactly within W or B proper. The realtors term is well noted. (See the first edit to this article, when it was created.)

P.S. please sign your posts at the end with four tildes, as ~~~~ , and it will automatically be formatted. Tinlinkin 18:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd feel comfortable setting the boundaries of East Williamsburg as anything north of broadway, west of Graham, and East/Southeast of the highway as East Williamsburg. Bushick is anything east of graham [2], and to walk around the nieghborhood you'd agree.

I live a couple blocks east of Graham Ave., on Metropolitan, but I still have the Williamsburg zip code (11211). Moreover it just seems to me a lot more like Williamsburg here than Bushwick. The vintage clothing stores, cafés, restaurants, the pirate supply shop...these don't seem too characteristic of Bushwick. Maybe this is a signal of L-ification.

Graham Ave's other secondary name north of Grand St. is Via Vespucci. Shouldn't that be included too, or is this talking only about the south end of Graham?

East Williamsburg is the big time Italian section of Williamsburg, and that begins around Lorimer through Graham. Old school residents talk about places like Conselyea and Manhattan being "East Williamsburg", so who knows. Vintage stores moving in doesn't suddenly turn a place into "Williamsburg" - if they moved into Maspeth, would that suddenly change to Williamsburg because it "felt" like it?

Regarding the notion above that anything east of Graham Ave. is Bushwick -- this is just your belief. These neighborhoods have actual boundaries. You can't just make up the boundary where you think the "character of the neighborhood changes. A lot of people just assume it becomes Bushwick whenever the neighborhood gets more grimy -- which is a ridiculous standard. Bushwick is east of Broadway and south of Flushing. If one day, Bushwick starts to look nice, like Williamsburg does today, it will still be Bushwick. ask123 (talk) 16:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Evolution of the 18th, 27th, and 28th wards.

Link to a page overviewing how "East Williamsburg" was historically Bushwick and came to be in the east williamsburg ward. [3]

New York Times reference

People keep linking to a New York Times article about grocery baggers claiming that it shows "Bushwick starts at the Food Bazaar between the Lorimer St and Flushing Av J-Train stations, east of Leonard Street and south of Boerum Street." The article says that the Food Bazaar at 21 Manhattan is in Williamsburg, and makes no claim about where "Bushwick starts". What am I missing here? I don't want to get into a revert war, but I'd really like someone to explain this to me. Digamma 04:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Bushwick's northern border is Flushing Ave. The industrial park is East Williamsburg. If you do any real research of the neighborhood you'd find this out, I'd contact Make The Road By Walking ([www.maketheroad.org]) and they have done alot of research into this, along with being a prominent community group in Bushwick proper. --Vsthesquares 17:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Bank Photo

I'm skeptical of the placement of the Bushwick Savings Bank photo next to the area that is trying to define what the area should be called. After all, I can go take a photo of the Astoria Federal Savings Bank in Borough Park, Brooklyn and it doesn't mean you should call the area "Astoria." Anyway I don't know why people get so excited about boundaries. I realize that labels drive up rents, hence the apartment listings on Gates and Malcolm X Blvd. that are "in the heart of Williamsburg." However, the subway maps say East Williamsburg, the signs formerly said "East Williamsburg Industrial Park," but what would those elements have to gain from glitzing up their images? I doubt the Mayor's office said "Ooh let's associate this manufacturing zone with hip Williamsburg so we can attract manufacturers who are looking for reasonably priced buildings!" Please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dface (talk • contribs) 01:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Moved from the article

Lofts and housing projects

the McKibbin Lofts, with low rise projects in the distance

Factories and warehouses were being decommissioned due to heavy and light industry leaving the area, and were converted into loft and apartment space, similar to the residential development of the DUMBO neighborhood in Brooklyn . An example of this can be seen in the adjacent picture which shows the two loft buildings on McKibbin St. 255 McKibbin and 248 McKibbin. A major factor for developers and potential residents was the BMT Canarsie Line (L) of the New York City Subway, with the Grand Street, Montrose Avenue and Morgan Avenue stations, which provides a quick, 15-minute travel time to Manhattan. (The neighborhood is also served by Lorimer Street and Flushing Avenue on the BMT Jamaica Line (J and ​M).) The location and low rents were enough to attract artists, young professionals and hipsters in due time, which in turn is slowly encouraging gentrification that continues today. Those long-time minority residents who live outside of rent-regulated apartments or public housing are feeling its effects in the form of higher rents. An "anti-gentrification" attitude has developed among locals and many in the community are becoming aware of the changes taking place. Most obviously due to an affordable housing shortage in the area but an increase in luxury condos and co-ops construction. Tensions have been forming between longstanding lower income residents and young professionals moving into the area.

Graham Ave (also known as Avenue of Puerto Rico to the South and Via Vespucci to the North) and Grand Street are the main shopping districts. There are several public housing projects in East Williamsburg, including the Williamsburg Houses, Borinquen Plaza, and the Bushwick/John Francis Hylan Houses.

Moved here by Repliedthemockturtle (talk). Some of this refers to places that are unquestionably part of Bushwick, and much of the writing is really opinionated.

Naming Controversy

The Case For Bushwick

Knickerbocker at Grattan looking South

The very first settlement in the town of Bushwick, het dorp, was founded on the corner of today's Bushwick and Metropolitan Avenues. Furthermore, the area consisting of all the lofts and factories east of Bushwick and North of Flushing, was once called the Village Bushwick Crossroads. Anything south of Flushing Avenue is part of the former New Lots of Bushwick. New York City' District 34 shows the area above Flushing and East of Bushwick Aves as Bushwick North. East Williamsburg and Bushwick share the 11206 zip code south of Grand Street. In April 1827, when Williamsburg incorporated, Bushwick Avenue was the boundary between the town of Williamsburg and Bushwick Village. The 18th ward initially consisted entirely of Bushwick, but was split into three wards as Bushwick grew southeastward.

Due to Bushwick's bad reputation, many real-estate developers used name East Williamsburg for parts of Bushwick.

According to the New York Times, Bushwick starts at the Food Bazaar between the Lorimer St and Flushing Av BMT Jamaica Line stations, east of Leonard Street and south of Boerum Street.

The Case For East Williamsburg

Knickerbocker at Thames looking North

East Williamsburg is served by Brooklyn Community Board 1, whereas Bushwick is served by Brooklyn Community Board 4, the boundary being at Flushing Avenue. Many residences north of Grand St. and east of Bushwick Ave. still share the 11211 zip code with Williamsburg. ([4]) Each neighborhood also has separate police precincts. East Williamsburg is still an emerging term, and residents who are reluctant to use that term remain to identify themselves with Bushwick or Williamsburg.

The Case For Greenpoint

Some residents of the East Williamsburg section refer to their neighborhood as Greenpoint due to the fact that their streets are served by the Greenpoint Post Office.

The Case for Morgan

The area known as East Williamsburg Industrial Park or at least the eastern half of the area has been called Morgan (referencing Morgan Ave.) for some time before the confusion with Williamsburg and Bushwick came up. At one time, there was a street sign saying something along the lines of 'Welcome to Morgan' at least 10 years ago.Al-Isfahani (talk) 07:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

(Note: not originally in article. Epicgenius (talk) 03:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC))

Why the confusion?

During the 20th century, the neighborhood was home to a major industrial district in Brooklyn within the borough's northern area. Thus the relatively few residents who lived in the surrounding area were mostly concentrated on the boundaries of Williamsburg and Bushwick, and chose to identify themselves as residents of those neighborhoods and not "East Williamsburg." The association between either neighborhood split down the Avenue of Puerto Rico (Graham Avenue) or Bushwick Avenue, identifying with Williamsburg to the west and with Bushwick to the east. In the latter half of the 20th century, the majority of the residents to the east were of African American and Puerto Rican background.

Bushwick Bank on Graham and Grand

Residents (north of Flushing Avenue) who identified with Bushwick had such a strong association that when real estate developers increasingly referred to the area as "East Williamsburg" in the late 1990s, many residents dismissed the term as a marketing ploy to encourage new residents who were unable to settle in Williamsburg, Greenpoint, or Gowanus . Older buildings such as the former Bushwick Savings Bank in the northwest or the towering Bushwick Houses in the southwest seem to indicate that their creators referred to the area as Bushwick. However, the Bushwick Savings Bank, which opened in 1873, was originally located in the heart of Bushwick on Broadway near Myrtle Avenue. It moved to the present location at Grand Street and Graham Avenue in 1895, retaining the name Bushwick Savings Bank.

Sources

• "Neighborhood On the Verge?", The New York Times, 25 January 2004. Accessed 26 July 2006.
• "Closeup on Bushwick, Brooklyn", The Village Voice, 7 December 2005, references East Williamsburg as part of Bushwick. Accessed 26 July 2006.
• "Go East, Young Man", The New York Times, 19 June 2005. Accessed 10 August 2006.

Moved here by Repliedthemockturtle (talk). Some of this refers to places that are unquestionably part of Bushwick, and much of the writing is really opinionated.

References

demographics and external links

instead of puerto rican community, and the italian communities, how about making a demogrpahics section that include info about the various communities living in the area, which should should include jewish, and polish.

also links to various maps and info about east williamsburg, like links to the various community boards, etc. would be useful. Lucky dog (talk) 02:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually I have a gripe with Saint Cecilia's inclusion as support for the Italian community. Firstly, as I edited, the parish started in 1871, the new church was built in 1891. Also, Saint Cecilia's was not a dominant Italian community but a dominant Irish community, evidence of such is it's Irish pastors dating to it's founding to the current day. There was/is an Italian community, but this parish was always more of an Irish parish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.138.104 (talk) 22:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Map

The map here still denotes East Williamsburg as the area east of Union Ave. Why is this the marker? What is and isn't East Williamsburg isn't really a matter of what people "feel comfortable with" (as discussed in the first section on this page). There is a line that can be drawn based on city boundaries. For example, on Google Maps, denotes East Williamsburg 11222 and 11237. It does not include 11211 and 11206. It isn't right to set arbitraty boundaries based on what one or another person thinks is right. There has to be more basis for the boundary than that. ask123 (talk) 16:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

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PIA25528: Hot Spots of Subsidence, Uplift in New York City

Here is JPL's Photojournal about East Williamsburg, Brooklyn area at PIA25528: Hot Spots of Subsidence, Uplift in New York City. Rjluna2 (talk) 18:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)