Talk:Don Juan (poem)

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 September 2019 and 13 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AshliC. Peer reviewers: Cscherer1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyright issues

Parts of this article, in particular the "History", "Sources" and "The name and motif" seem to be copied verbatim from the introduction to the poem in this: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/18762. What is Wikipedia policy? Obviously, Gutenberg works are public domain but they paragraphs are copied wholesale? What is the best thing to do?

James Robson 19:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no policy that I can think of on this (remembering that I don't know them all, just the important ones). Since it is sourced at the bottom, as a courtesy, I think it is fine as it is. —Sean Whitton / 19:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Wasn't sure. Does it need wikifying or whatever? At the moment that lump o' text doesn't look very encyclopaedic, and the beginning of "The name and motif" is a bit dodgy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James Robson (talk • contribs) 19:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The whole point of PD text is that it can be repurposed without reservation (but should, properly, be cited, as this article was - "Much of this article is based on an essay in The Works of Lord Byron, Volume 6, by Ernest Hartley Coleridge."). If you are able to wikify the text more than it is, please be my guest. As it is, I suspect you'll find, if you make the attempt, that most of it bears all the links it is sensible to bear. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Assessment - Start class/mid priority

A good start to the article. Should be a B but the lack of refs drags the standard down. The "Name and Motif" section is blatantly copied from another website and much copyediting is needed to fix this. The trivia section needs to go or be merged with other parts of the article. Mid priority due to being a recognisable poem by a famous writer. _{WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN} 16:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Byrondonjuan.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

External link to image of autograph manuscript

Please consider adding an external link to an image of the original autograph manuscript, which is in The Morgan library & Museum's collection:

http://www.themorgan.org/collections/collections.asp?id=142

Morganlibrary (talk) 12:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yup. I saw user:Closedmouth reverted that addition - I'm not sure why. I'll ask him/her. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

And pending an answer, I've reinstated the link. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation

There was a debate hidden in the text that should be here:

<!--In fact, "JOO-wan" is the traditional English pronunciation of Juan, though not a name traditionally used in England. In the same tradition, the character Maria in Mansfield Park is called correctly "Ma-RYE-uh", as she would be in modern English. The pronunciation is a joke in Don Juan, since this Juan is Spanish, but it is not exactly "incorrect." [this doesn't make any sense: JOO-wan is the traditional pronunciation of a name that is not traditional? And since when is 'Maria' ever pronounced muh-RYE-uh?-->

If anyone has any evidence that Juan rhymed with true one outside Byron, we should of course correct the article. kwami (talk) 06:39, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about Juan specifically, but the generally tendency in English (until very recently) has been to pronounce foreign names as if they were English words. This is certainly true of Cadíz: "There was an Old Person of Cadiz / Who was always polite to all ladies" [Edward Lear], "Don Juan, who's just been wintering in Cadiz / Caught at the wheel of his maroon Mercedes" [W.H. Auden].

Is there any evidence that the pronunciation "wan" or "hwan" was used in English in the 1820's? ABehrens (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know that Juan was traditionally pronounce JOO-an in English (my impression was always that Byron was making a joke). However, it is absolutely true that Muh-RYE-ah was the correct and standard pronunciation of Maria in English a speaking countries until well into the twentieth century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.158.202 (talk) 06:08, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

References

How is it that such a long article can possibly arise out of two references?:) I am going to change the assessment to C class, but if this information were properly sourced, the article could achieve much more.Mrathel (talk) 21:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Use of critical term - bathos vs anticlimax

I question the use of the term 'bathos' which is defined as ‘A lapse into the ridiculous by a poet aiming at elevated expression. Whereas anticlimax can be a deliberate poetic effect, bathos is an unintended failure.'(1) Surely Byron uses anticlimax deliberately for comic effect?94.30.95.21 (talk) 09:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC) (1) Oxford Dictionary of Literary Terms, ed. Chris Baldick (3rd ed, 2008, Oxford: Oxford University Press).

The Dedication

The dedication to Robert Southey (then Poet Laureate) has 14 stanzas, also ottava rima - shouldn't it get the first section in the synopsis? There's a lot of material there of interest both literary and historical/political. Or at least a mention up top? Ken M Quirici 12:51, 4 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kquirici (talk • contribs)

Oops! It's down the bottom. Sorry.Ken M Quirici 21:41, 6 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kquirici (talk • contribs)

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"hock and soda water"

Some editions include a poem that Byron scribbled on the manuscript, in the same ottava rima form:

I would to heaven that I were so much clay,
As I am blood, bone, marrow, passion, feeling -
Because at least the past were passed away -
And for the future - (but I write this reeling,
Having got drunk exceedingly today,
So that I seem to stand upon the ceiling)
I say - the future is a serious matter -
And so - for God's sake - hock and soda water!

I can't see how to include this in the article, although I think it should be there. Larry Koenigsberg (talk) 05:56, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Plagiarism?

This article fails to use quotation marks when quoting. One source is named under "References". Rwood128 (talk) 18:00, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I have indicated some quotations and added citations. This is a work in progress and needs additions and revisions. Rwood128 (talk) 20:23, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Equally significant is that the one source that is over-used is over 100 years old! Rwood128 (talk) 21:33, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Mugger

This word is not appropriate for the period; 'footpad' might be better. American slang is not yet universal. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:65BF:7DE1:C67C:7AE2 (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2017 (UTC)