Talk:Cyril Asquith, Baron Asquith of Bishopstone/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 09:45, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Early life and career

• "where he was a scholar" and soon after "where he was a foundation scholar". More explanation is needed here. The definition of "scholar" can range from simply being someone in education (which he clearly was), to a humanities specialist, to someone receiving a financial scholarship. Please clarify.
• "Like his father and his brother, Raymond. Asquith.." I'm guessing that full-stop is meant to be a comma?
• "Like his father and his brother, Raymond. Asquith obtained first-class honours in Classical Moderations in 1911 and in literae humaniores in 1913.
• I doubt his father and brother both "obtained first-class honours in Classical Moderations in 1911 and in literae humaniores in 1913." Clarify which parts were the same, and which were not.
• What are the Hertford, Craven and Ireland scholarships? The other is wikilinked, but these have no explanation.
  • If you are intending to create these as articles, I would suggest wikilinking them as red links for the time being. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
• Why link captain, but not second lieutenant before it?
• Do we know why he was deemed medically unfit for service?
• "serving for a time on the British War Mission in the United States. Can you clarify this; was he in the United States? Because that is clearly abroad, which contradicts the previous statement.
• Presumably, if he "took silk in 1936", then he should also have the "KC" postnominals?

Judicial career

• "by the appointment of Mr Justice Porter to the House of Lords, He was assigned to the King's Bench Division" Switch to either a full-stop, or get rid of the capital letter.
• "..Asquith provided advice to King George VI on his power to refuse a dissolution in 1939." A bit of context might be useful here; were parliament considering dissolution etc?
• "..and was sworn of the Privy Council.." Terminology sounds odd here, but I appreciate much in the judiciary is. Is this the right phrasing?
• No need to link Lord Jowitt again in this section; especially as it repeats facts mentioned in the previous section.
• County does not need a capital letter.
  • I think we could use our own style guide here, but I'm not fussed for a GA nominee. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
• "In selecting Asquith Churchill might have been.." Wikipedia articles shouldn't speculate. If this is someone else's speculation, then attribute that inline.
  • Still outstanding; this needs to be attributed in the prose, not as a note. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
• The penultimate paragraph of the section is unreferenced.
  • Still outstanding. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
• British English prefers "authorised", rather than "authorized".

Family

• His coat of arms, crest, escutcheon and motto are unreferenced.
  • By the look of it, these could be referenced to the Cracroft reference. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Selected judgments

• This is somewhat like a trivia section; who made the selection, and on what merit? Also needs references if it is kept.
  • Ah, I see. I still think that if these were particularly notable, they should be incorporated into the prose above, rather than listed here. Understand the referencing now. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

References

• Can you provide an ISBN for Grieves, Keith (1988) and Twomey, Anne (2018), and an OCLC number for Who's Who in the British War Mission in the United States of America, 1918.
  • Still outstanding. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
• What makes Cracroft's Peerage a reliable source? The reference is also missing an accessdate at the moment.
  • I'm not necessarily saying that it is not reliable, I am just unaware of it, and on a quick look I can't tell whether it meets the "reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" requirements we demand. Harrias ^talk 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

I'll place the nomination on hold, pending further responses. Harrias ^talk

Response to comments

Thanks for the review! Responses are as follows:

Early life and career

• "where he was a scholar" and soon after "where he was a foundation scholar". More explanation is needed here. The definition of "scholar" can range from simply being someone in education (which he clearly was), to a humanities specialist, to someone receiving a financial scholarship. Please clarify.

Hyperlinked scholar to scholarship.

• "Like his father and his brother, Raymond. Asquith.." I'm guessing that full-stop is meant to be a comma?

Corrected.

• "Like his father and his brother, Raymond. Asquith obtained first-class honours in Classical Moderations in 1911 and in literae humaniores in 1913.
• I doubt his father and brother both "obtained first-class honours in Classical Moderations in 1911 and in literae humaniores in 1913." Clarify which parts were the same, and which were not.

Reformulated.

• What are the Hertford, Craven and Ireland scholarships? The other is wikilinked, but these have no explanation.

These were important Oxford scholarships in Classics. They should have their own pages (when I get around it) but I would leave them like that for the moment. The reader would understand that he got these scholarships from what's already written.

• Why link captain, but not second lieutenant before it?

Linked both.

• Do we know why he was deemed medically unfit for service?

It's not mentioned in any of the biographical sources.

• "serving for a time on the British War Mission in the United States. Can you clarify this; was he in the United States? Because that is clearly abroad, which contradicts the previous statement.

Added "military" to "service abroad". He couldn't be sent to, say, the Western Front, but the US job was a desk one, and the US wasn't a warzone. The two aren't contradictory.

• Presumably, if he "took silk in 1936", then he should also have the "KC" postnominals?

When he was appointed to the High Court his status as a barrister and his KC both lapsed. Sir John Baker has written a paper about it, which I can dig up if necessary.

Judicial career

• "by the appointment of Mr Justice Porter to the House of Lords, He was assigned to the King's Bench Division" Switch to either a full-stop, or get rid of the capital letter.

Fixed

• "..Asquith provided advice to King George VI on his power to refuse a dissolution in 1939." A bit of context might be useful here; were parliament considering dissolution etc?

It was general advice about his power of dissolution, requested after there was some dispute over the subject in South Africa. It's a very minor thing he did (lawyers provide legal of advice to tons of people) and I could either have a substantive footnote or take it out.

• "..and was sworn of the Privy Council.." Terminology sounds odd here, but I appreciate much in the judiciary is. Is this the right phrasing?

Yes.

• No need to link Lord Jowitt again in this section; especially as it repeats facts mentioned in the previous section.

Done.

• County does not need a capital letter.

That's the wording in the London Gazette. Given that the full title+territorial designation has some legal significance I retained the capital.

• "In selecting Asquith Churchill might have been.." Wikipedia articles shouldn't speculate. If this is someone else's speculation, then attribute that inline.

Will footnote this section.

• The penultimate paragraph of the section is unreferenced.
• British English prefers "authorised", rather than "authorized".

Changed, although the -zed ending was fairly common in BrE at that time. In any case, nothing turns on this point.

Family

• His coat of arms, crest, escutcheon and motto are unreferenced.

Will add reference.

Selected judgments

• This is somewhat like a trivia section; who made the selection, and on what merit? Also needs references if it is kept.

These are the case referred to in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, plus a rather important international arbitration he did. Obviously there is going to be some dispute over the exact selection of cases, especially for a prolific judge. This said, two of them have Wikipedia pages (a prima facie test of Wikipedia notability) and 3/4 are mentioned in the ODNB, and the fourth one (the arbitration) was much written about.

The references are the legal citations after each case name. One could move them into the footnote, but as the two usually go together I have kept them in-line.

References

• Can you provide an ISBN for Grieves, Keith (1988) and Twomey, Anne (2018), and an OCLC number for Who's Who in the British War Mission in the United States of America, 1918.

Will do.

• What makes Cracroft's Peerage a reliable source? The reference is also missing an accessdate at the moment.

I can dig out Burke's if necessary. Editors tend to prefer Cracroft because it's reliable and freely accessible, wheres Burke's costs an arm and a leg, so you are taking references to it on trust anyway.

Let me know if there are further points you want to raise and thanks again! Will let you know when the remaining changes are done otherwise. Atchom (talk) 16:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

• Update* I've had to go abroad for a work trip and don't have access to some of the sources for now. I may take a bit longer to address the remaining concerns, if that's okay with you. Atchom (talk) 23:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @Atchom: No worries, ping me when you're back around. Harrias ^talk 10:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
    • @Atchom: I can see you haven't edited since this update, I don't suppose you are able to provide a time-frame as to when you might be able to take another look at this though? Harrias ^talk 10:20, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
      • @Harrias: It's been a busy time for anyone interested in UK law! I'll get on it as soon as possible. Atchom (talk) 21:00, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
        • @Atchom: There has been no work on this article since 5 September. I appreciate that it is a busy time, but if that is the case, then I would suggest closing this nomination and postponing until you have more availability. I will leave this open for seven further days to allow you further time to work on the article, but at that point, if no progress has been made, I will have to close the nomination as inactive. Should you subsequently renominate it, you could feel free to ping me at that point to re-review the article. Harrias ^talk 10:30, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.