Talk:Characters of the Mortal Kombat series/Archive 1

Archive 1

Tabling

The page is, in its current form, almost unreadable beyond character names. I think perhaps it should be altered to a table form, since it'd be easier to cross-reference characters and games. See WP:TABLE. Comments before I get started? Virogtheconq 23:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC) Edit: Finished initial version. x means playable, h for hidden (unplayable), b for boss (unplayable), c for cameo (pretty much any NPC that appears in the background and/or only has speaking role): Virogtheconq 01:49, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Edit2: Found a much more readable way to do this. Not much work to import previous table to this version, just a lot of deleting linefeeds and inserting extra pipes. Virogtheconq 06:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC) Edit3: Done. Going to leave here for a few days in the unlikely event of comments. Virogtheconq 03:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Game/Character	MK	MKII	MK3	UMK3	MKA	MKT	MK4	MKG	MK:DA	MK:TE	MK:D	MK:U	MK:A	MKM:SZ	MK:SF	MK:SM
Ashrah											x	x	x
Baraka		x				x		x			x	x	x			x
Blaze		c				c			x	x	c	x	x			c
Bo' Rai Cho									x	x	x	x	x
Cyrax			x	x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x
Dairou											x	x	x
Darrius											x	x	x
Drahmin									x	x	c	c	x
Ermac				x	x	x					x	x	x			b
Frost									x	x	c	c	x
Fujin							x	x			c	c	x	b
Goro	b					x	x	x			x	x	x			b
Havik											x	x	x
Hotaru											x	x	x
Hsu Hao									x	x			x
Jade		h		x	x	x					x	x	x			b
Jarek							x	x			c	c	x
Jax		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	c	c	x	x		x	c
Johnny Cage	x	x				x	x	x	x	x	c	c	x			x
Kabal			x	x	x	x					x	x	x		c
Kai							x	x			c	c	x
Kano	x	c	x	x	x	x			x	x	c	c	x		x	b
Kenshi									x	x	x	x	x
Kintaro		b				x					c	c	x			b
Kira											x	x	x
Kitana		x		x	x	x		x	x	x	c	c	x			x
Kobra											x	x	x
Kung Lao		x	x	x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x			x
Li Mei									x	x	x	x	x
Liu Kang	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	c		x	x	x			x
Mavado									x	x			x
Mileena		x		x	x	x		x			x	x	x			b
Mokap									x	x	c	c	x
Moloch									x	x	c	c	x
Motaro			b	b	b	x					c	c	x
Nightwolf			x	x	x	x					x	x	x
Nitara									x	x	c	c	x
Noob Saibot	x*	h	h	x	x	x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x		c
Onaga									c	c	b	b	x
Quan Chi							x	x	x	x	c	c	x	b		b
Raiden	x	x				x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	c		c
Rain				x	x	x					c	c	x
Reiko							x	x			c	c	x
Reptile	h	x		x	x	x	x	x			c	c	x			x
Sareena										x	c	c	x	b
Scorpion	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	b		x
Sektor			x	x	x	x		x		x	c	c	x
Shang Tsung	b	x	x	x	x	x			x	x	c	c	x			b
Shao Kahn		b	b	b	b	x			c	c	x	x	x			b
Sheeva			x	x	x	x					c	c	x
Shinnok							x	x			c	c	x	b
Shujinko											x	x	x
Sindel			x	x	x	x					x	x	x
Smoke		h	x	x	x	x					x	x	x			c
Sonya Blade	x	c	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	c	c	x			c
Kurtis Stryker			x	x	x	x					c	c	x
Sub-Zero		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x			x
Tanya							x	x			x	x	x
Taven													x

^*The original Mortal Kombat's Sub-Zero was killed and replaced by his younger older brother; the original became Noob Saibot.

Rumored Characters

I added a section for rumored characters. I am new to Wikipedia so am not able fix the links yet, please do so if you come across bad links. Also, I didn't add any information on the characters as I feel there people better suited to the task. Feel free to add information. There is a Belokk page started at List_of_Mortal_Kombat_Character/Belokk which is a link I don't know how to fix.

--NovaStarr 23:50, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If you have any rumored characters, just make sure to provide verifiable evidence, i.e., news articles or reports from Midway or something and not just fan speculation, or everything there could soon be deleted because it is crystal ball-type information. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a write up about some of the old rumored characters, with gaming magazine scans that started the rumors back in the day. http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/kombat_pavilion.html click Rumored Chars on the sidebar, can't link directly to that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.57.52.127 (talk) 06:53, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Unlisted there, are Shawn, and Watchdog. They originate from arade audit menu text for Shawn Attacks, and Watchdogs. Mistaken as characters, much like Error Macros. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.57.52.127 (talk) 06:56, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

ARGH

This is a MESS. Not so much the structure, I think it's a good move to seperate "proper" characters from minor ones, rather the fact so many of those minor characters have articles that are only a sentence or two long. Rumours shouldn't get their own page. I have NEVER heard Ermac referred to as "Red Robin", so that's just one example of something that's evidently not worthy of encyclopedic coverage.

Now, for these rumoured characters, instead of giving them a page of their own, shouldn't they be put under a "rumours" heading in the article for their respective games? If there's proof that they were considered, or at least possible (Zebron and Belokk, for example), then, yes, they're worthy of a page. But if there's nothing we can give other than fan opinion and speculation, there is no need to give them more than a passing reference- IF THAT- on the page of their respective game.

I also noticed the other day that there were numerous articles that had been duplicated with just "(Mortal Kombat Character)" put on the end. If it didn't need a disambiguation page in the first place like characters such as Scorpion or Reptile logically WOULD, it DEFINITELY didn't need a duplicate article!

Oh, and Saurion isn't a character. It's a race. Khameleon and Reptile are part of it. Should we have a page for Mortal Kombat races? Personally, I'm all for it, but what does everyone else think?

I've been a tad shocked at the MK characters' articles in recent months. I'm going to give some of these articles a severe tidying (a lot of them are sloppy in the first place) and I very much encourage other people to join me. Come on, guys, let's do justice to these wonderful and imaginative characters. --L T Dangerous 20:59, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

EDIT HIM! *dramatic music*

OK, here's where I'm gonna log everything I do on this page as well as adding a few suggestions (I'll add dates and times to let you know when I added this). Please carry out anything I don't do. If you disagree with any of my contributions, please tell me on this page:

My contributions

• Removed Reptile, Ermac and Rain from the "Rumour, Hidden and Cameo characters" section. All three are main characters and were already listed as such. There is no need to link to the same page twice --L T Dangerous 13:20, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Deleted the link to "Teir" for two reasons. One: it's not a character in the first place. Two: it's SPELLED WRONG. Seems somebody was too keen to make their first Wiki that they decided to copy and rename an already existing page. --L T Dangerous 13:20, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Things I suggest you all help me with

• Let's get some of these "rumour" characters deleted, please. If there is no proof then it can be considered a hoax and, therefore, has no place here, thank you very much. And I dread to think how stupid you'd need to be to believe Ryu was in a Mortal Kombat game. --L T Dangerous 13:20, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Can we work out who is and is not a "cameo" character? Chameleon is listed with the major characters in the "Mortal Kombat characters" template. While I'm not sure if I agree, that means he must be listed with the major characters on this page, yet he isn't. On the other hand, boss characters from Mortal Kombat: Mythologies are listed on this page with the major characters, despite having articles that are only a few paragraphs long. There's not enough information to make them main characters and, frankly, they're not main characters anyway. --L T Dangerous 13:20, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Article needs some work

Port exclusive info needs its own symbol as well. For instance, Goro wasn't even in the arcade version of MK4 and Noob was a hidden unplayable opponent. And why is Meat labeled as a Hidden Unplayable Opponent in MK4? Where are you baffoons getting your information from? Buzda 06:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Meat is labeled as a hidden unplayable character, not opponent. However, this is still a misnomer as Meat, although hidden, is indeed quite playable (And playing as Meat is the only way to even see him, actually). Although now that you mention it, I don't know if Meat appears in the arcade version of MK4 since I don't think group mode is in it. These little symbols definitely cannot compensate for all these weird exceptions, of which there are many (I'm not a particular fan of this whole table thing, by the way). MarphyBlack 12:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

He's in the arcade game. The arcade had Group Mode. Buzda 02:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

What about Khameleon? She's only in the Wii version of MK:Armageddon. -- VederJuda 14:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I didn't see the list at the bottom. -- VederJuda 14:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Why is Mario and Sonic listed in the character list?? and checked for every game?????? -- Typhoon87 0:08, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Sonya Blade

Why isn't Sonya Blade listed? She was in the Nintendo console version of the first three games and as well as the arcade version. Mr. C.C. (talk) 09:49, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposals

As you've probably seen several articles here have been proposed for merge. The reason being they don't sufficiently cover Wikipedia's policy of citable information in third party material or even real-world development information with proper citations, and are extremely bare bones. Wikipedia simply isn't a directory.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

With full disclosure that I haven't yet looked for third-party sources, as there are so many characters—I support merging any character for which no reliable secondary sources can be found once someone does look. Pagrashtak 16:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

After researching, merged Darrius, Taven, Mokap, Daegon, Drahmin, and Moloch here. The subjects lack any reliable secondary sources that can be cited for notability and so forth. Just simply does not exist.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 08:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this. A note to anyone concerned—if you think that a merged character might warrant a separate article, the best way to proceed is to add referenced out-of-universe content to the section in this article about the character. If enough is added (and is not largely in-universe or plot repetition), then we will split the section off into a separate article. Pagrashtak 15:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Havik, Dairou, and Hotaru are merged in here now as well. That ends up taking care of the simplest ones to merge given the subject matter. There are still a lotta characters though, and many of them have no reception in anything.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

This looks chaotic and unprofessional. While I understand the reasoning for the moves I can't help but think that it should be everyone or no-one. Picking and choosing is confusing for users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.51.35.241 (talk) 23:21, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

These merges suck. Most of the information regarding characters is gone. There are no images. Looks like an index, not an encyclopedia.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

information crossovers

the decision of merging all of the character articles into one list is an acceptable idea. though i must ask if some specific parts of the articles may also be added to this list article. basically, i'm talking about adding the game version debut of the character, the fighting style, and, of course, their special moves to their personal information.

I think it's done for awhile

The remaining characters have some degree of notability, and what's left can be merged or not as time goes on.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 08:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

MK: Armageddon

Non-main character links on the Mortal Kombat: Armageddon page have been updated to redirect to this article. Also, any out-of-universe character information (actors, game info, etc.) previously removed due to the article merger needs to be restored at some point. sixtynine ^{• spill it •} 22:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Question about merger

I just have to ask, why is there a merger with all these articles? Is there a problem with the server? Because I didn't think any of the character's pages were stubs. I have already read that if I wanted a character to have a separate page, I could request it, but I doubt I would be heard. I can understand the guys that debutted from UMK3 foward with the exception of Blaze, Shujinko, and maybe Onaga. But I mean guys like Cyrax and Rain (okay maybe not Rain) really need a separate page. Especially those who debutted earlier in the series, plus the renders that were on the individual pages were extremely helpful and now they are gone, and for people not as MK savvy like me, they wouldn't know to look in MKwarehouse for character renders, when they could look in this public encyclopedia. Subzerosmokerain (talk) 22:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Read Merge proposals. Importance in the series is not enough to have an article. The characters need reception information to have their articles. None of them had such section.Tintor2 (talk) 23:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean on how well they were recieved? I am not following you. And just to say, the relative importance that each character has to another does grant them some degree of an individual page. Subzerosmokerain (talk) 23:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. It's real world impact of the character that will count.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

For example see GA characters articles like Cloud Strife, Elite (Halo) and Kyo Kusanagi.Tintor2 (talk) 00:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, Cloud isn't a very good example since a lot of the FF games revolve around him, (at least the ones he appears in) so he already is popular but I see what you mean with Elite and Kyo, then again, the developers actually speak on the subject of their characters while the MK team is more often than not silent. Like the Aftermath of Armageddon which has been due for over a year now they aren't going to say, "Our best characters in our opinion, etc" they just don't have the time. Also their(Cloud's, Elite's, and Kyo's) developers actually have the time to speak upon their characters.

The Mortal Kombat franchise isn't exactly as popular as it was once in the 90's. So the only characters who really are seen in popular culture nowadays are Scorpion and Sub-Zero, so real world impact wouldn't be a good example to use.

On another note, I always seemed to look upon Wikipedia to provide indepth coverage on obscure subjects, but some of these summaries had only been scratching the surface of the characters, not showing renders even just incase a person only knew of a character through their memory, (just incase they wanted to look up a character like Zangief from SF but only knew what he looked like but didn't know their name and also knew he appeared in the SF games, I was in the predicament once) and now without character renders, that way of looking up a character is useless. And really, isn't Wikipedia a reference source? Subzerosmokerain (talk) 00:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

So, your only complain is the use of images? Reception could be get by reviews from certain games of the series. The King of Fighters series also has lots of characters, but I could get reception and creation from Kyo from interviews as well as reviews.Tintor2 (talk) 00:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

My complaint is not giving the other characters enough recognition. Albeit thats not what wikipedia looks for, to give characters recognitinon I mean. Some obscure characters I understand like Mokap and the like. But guys like Smoke and Jade have been around for a while. And have had a developed storyline and should get their own article. (I being biased towards Rain though would also like a Rain article but thats not gonna happen.) Subzerosmokerain (talk) 00:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Once again, the importance withing the series does not matter, or how long they have been.Tintor2 (talk) 01:20, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Man, I can't believe you guys just deleted all the hard work done by the fans who put in the effort to make all of those individual pages. The pages were acurate and informative. When ever somebody wants to learn about a specific character they would type it into google, the wikipedia page for show up, and then they would gather the infor they needed.

I see no reasoning in this what so ever, rather than to display some sort of internet power. Under you reasoning their shouldn't be hardly nay individual pages for any video game characters, or comic book characters. But there are, and there are lots of them. This makes no sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.139.110 (talk) 23:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

In wikipedia, there are lots of characters articles that need to be merged. See the Reptile article which has been highly improved these days as an example of notability.Tintor2 (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Images

I have noticed that there are no images of characters that are only included on this page (characters without their ownn personal articles I mean). If anyone has time and patience, and the images; could you upload them to appear next to their individual article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mechaermac (talk • contribs) 03:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

To add upon what this member said, can we not just create a Mortal Kombat page in the Wikimedia Commons, since it's purpose is to upload pictures? And we can put an external link to that page at the bottom of the page so if people want to find images of the characters in question, they can simply look up the character in the General MK commons page. The page has begun creation so anyone who wishes to participate, please do so. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (The Lin Kuei) 22:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Jax

What happened to his article. It just disappeared? He is a major Mortal Kombat character worthy of his own article. Boasts more game appearences then even Sonya and Johnny Cage. Why is his article missing? I mean a main artcile. If Noob and Ermac get one then surely he should.

Is there any explanation? ~Darklink75 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.22.224.231 (talk) 06:45, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The MK1 character list

The tab at the top of the page which says this article too long is true. I ask that maybe we should instead link to this page?

Mortal Kombat 1 characters

It has the same list of characters, it goes directly to a list of every character mentioned on this list of Mortal Kombat 1 characters, just in smaller print. Less clutter, more clicking. The only downside is that visitors must redirect themselves to the Mortal Kombat (video game) page. Seems logical, but I expect some devil's advocates because I see no real error with my judgement. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 21:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Great Kung Lao

Being the protagonist of Mortal Kombat: Conquest he should at least merit a sub-heading. Not an article per se, but at least more than 3 mentions on a page of about 50 characters. Perhaps the character's descirption should return to the minor characters page? Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 22:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm Really Hating This Merging

Again, by merging all these articles into one; there's less information, it's more clustered, and it's even harder to find information than it was before for a video game series that's expanding every week. It was fine before. The King Gemini (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I do as well. But instead, we must use the notability guideline, that should be taken with a grain of salt, instead of the verifiability policy which should be followed to a T. More about the difference between policies and guidelines is stated here: [|Role of policies and guidelines] It is very possible to unmerge all of the articles but hen it would be around 63 characters someone would need to maintain. Since there are only about 5 active users mainitaining the Mortal Kombat articles, it needs to remain this way. Unless you could become apart of the maintainence team. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 16:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

But to return them, it would be needed that those article could pass notability.Tintor2 (talk) 16:44, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Not entirely, we could use WP:IAR to return them. Since notability is based on consensus and the consensus here is against using notability. Subzerosmokerain (talk) 16:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

But still they would still fail notability and verifiability. The Mortal Kombat characters were not the only one merged, Street Fighter and KOF's characters were also merged. If in IAR, we are using common sense, then the most common option is to make a reception archive similar to Pokemon's rather than return articles that fail guidelines.Tintor2 (talk) 17:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Notability however is not a requirement as it is stated," It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." Occasional exceptions are the key words. In the WP:N article, it is not stated clearly what to do in the case of fictional characters but it states, "A topic for which this criterion is deemed to have been met by consensus, is usually worthy of notice, and satisfies one of the criteria for a stand-alone article in the encyclopedia." Moreover with WP:Common is required you use consensus to decide what does and what doesn't fall under notability. By what i've seen only [|one user] decide what merges and what doesn't merge. Unless i'm mistaken, a consensus typically has more than one person and of course, the counterarguments.

Although MK was not the only one merged, you're justifying the reason of merging by using the bandwagon mentality of "how other articles do it" not consensus. Now the articles conflict with the guideline, WP:SIZE and when I mean conflict, the page fails comfortable readability. I propose we return the articles per WP:IAR and appropriately discuss who should and should not be merged. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 16:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Number of editors does not matter for a consensus as far as I have seen, but guidelines. By common sense, the only merged character that seems to pass notability is Shujinko as he was the protagonist of Deception (and possibly Jax, though I'm not sure). I don't see how does size is more important than other guidelines when this article is still 75 kilobytes long when FAs (which are supposed to be examples) like Characters of Kingdom Hearts are bigger. Besides the information from the sections is the same that was in the article, but it was trimmed.Tintor2 (talk) 17:40, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I've recently opened a MedCab discussion on this topic. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the edit/merge/revert warring to stop until the editors have come to a consensus one way or the other. David Pro (talk) 14:45, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

AGREE —Preceding unsigned comment added by Look is the fcking superk (talk • contribs) 20:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge with List of minor Mortal Kombat characters

Lists of minor characters are not appropriate subjects for entire pages on Wikipedia, as per Wikipedia:INDISCRIMINATE. If the information on the List of minor Mortal Kombat characters is to be kept, it should be merged here. The minor character list is not long and would not take up too much space on the main list. Neelix (talk) 03:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Would the information be trimmed more? It's basically trimmed to the bare minimum, anything trimmed more would be losing valuable information. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 00:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Most of the characters from the list look very minor as I can't even remember them despite having played various games. The Unofficial characters could be moved to the games they were meant to appear, while the bosses from Mythologies Sub-Zero and Special Forces could be moved to their respective articles.Tintor2 (talk) 02:22, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not making any suggestions about trimming or other formatting issues; what I am suggesting is that there should only be one page listing Mortal Kombat characters. Neelix (talk) 13:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not trying to contest it, I mean only a few characters of the Mortal Kombat franchise are extremely notable. And this main list does the job of putting the non-notable characters in check (so to speak).

Even all these characters in the minor list combined do not extend their fame past the immediate fanbase. The characters added recently: Earth, Water and Fire Gods(MKM:SZ); Gemini(MK:SF); Monster, and Apep (MK:D); Orin, Caro, Argus, Wulae, and Delia (MK:A) only deserve to be mentioned in their own video games' plots.

I'm not saying this is an extremely necessary minor list but we need to find a different solution (like the one Tintor stated above) to do so because the page will later become frustrating to navigate. I'm liking Tintor's idea, perhaps we should put a section such as "characters" or "bosses" with the brief description that is found on the Minor List of characters page in the games they made their respective appearances. As for the unreleased (unofficial would include fanmade characters) characters... that one's a tough part. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 00:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Are fanmade characters cited in reliable, independent, secondary sources? If they are not sufficiently notable, perhaps they should simply be removed. Neelix (talk) 12:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I didn't pay attention to the fanmade characters... Well, I agree with Neelix: if they are unnotable they should be removed.Tintor2 (talk) 14:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

(Unindent) Whoa, there are no fanmade characters on the minor list of characters only Belokk, Hornbuckle, and Nimbus are there who are unreleased characters. Hornbuckle did appear ingame(give his name by the fans), we have citable references that Belokk existed by creation of Eurocom and that Nimbus was a joke by a a notable magazine. By unofficial I meant the characters you can play as on the pirated versions of Mortal Kombat (robotic Scorpion and Sub-Zero for instance). Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 23:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Though it pains me to say it, I could not find any immediate proof of the mentioning of those three characters in seecond or third party material. Maybe if Ed Boon mentioned them in an interview, they would be notable eneough for their paragraph but apparently they are not notable right now. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 23:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The purpose of this discussion is to determine whether or not the merge between these two pages should take place, not to determine which characters should be included on the list and which should not; that can be discussed afterwards. So far, no one has unambiguously objected to merging the two pages. Does anyone wish to bring anything else to the table before we proceed with the merge? Neelix (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you need it spelled out, I'm opposed to the merge because, both articles are poor and have no reception section that talks about their relevance to the real world (which is imperative for lists of characters). Adding more characters to an already long list would make that even more difficult when it is decided to be added. The information in the minor list has some merit, for the reason at least some of it is referenced. I'm trying to avoid the arguments that should be avoided in deletion discussions but in this case a merger would hurt more than it would help. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think I've understood what you've said, Sub-Zero. What do you mean by saying that the merge would "make that even more difficult when it is decided to be added"? Specifically, what do "that" and "it" refer to in that sentence? I would like to see List of Mortal Kombat characters become a featured list at some point; I don't see how this merge would impede progress towards such an eventuality. Neelix (talk) 21:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Management of such a list of great length, although you assume such a merge would not extend it very far, would be more difficult to keep from vandalism as this main list already has occasional but apparent vandalism. As well as creating character biographies that are out of universe (in which the main list has none), and to create biographies indepth enough to provide clarity would begin to conflict with WP:SIZE. This main list is frustrating enough to read, navigate and edit without adding more information to the pot. Keeping the pages separate would disperse the longevity for now, at least until the main list is up to agreeable standards. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 21:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

(Unindent) To make my point very clearly, we should just delete the minor list. According to WP:Indiscriminate, we don't need the minor list however merging the minor list into the main list would become frustrating. I moved several characters (notable or not) to the Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero page, into their own section of "Playable Characters and Bosses." If we are going to get rid of the minor list, we should just move the characters to their respective articles and delete the page. No need for merging if essentially, all we would be doing is deleting the minor list. I'll continue moving the last few characters to their respective pages. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 22:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

This page should not be deleted; it is important to keep its history for the purposes of other pages which contain information originally added here. Redirecting this page to List of Mortal Kombat characters would have the same effect without destroying the history. Would you consider this an acceptable solution? Neelix (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, that seems agreeable. Just to get rid of it, but keep the information, as of now, I'll be moving the characters to their respective games (and removing the nonnotable characters after I move them there, where Tintor2 started doing that before me). Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 14:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree too.Tintor2 (talk) 14:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I need to understand where we're going to put the MK VS DC characters. They can't go to the main list but they can't stay in the minor list. I'll redirect Dark Khan and the like to the MK vs DC articles. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 14:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Characters that deserve their own article

Some characters here surely deserve their own article. I know some will not agree, but I think that the facts below may prove the characters deserve their own page.

JAX

• One of the most traditional characters, who have always been a part of the main storyline, different from other characters of this article who are focused on their own separate story.
• Have appeared on 6 of the 8 main games, ranked 5 out of 64 in total number of appearances. (excluding ports)
• Had a game focused on him called Mortal Kombat: Special Forces.
• Have appeared in two movies (Mortal Kombat (film) & Mortal Kombat: Annihilation) and one animated series (Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm) as a main character.
• Appeared on the comic book series Mortal Kombat (comic books) and all related media to the franchise.
• One of the main characters in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, proving his importance as only the most popular characters made into that game.

BARAKA

• One of the most traditional characters, who have always been a part of the main storyline, different from other characters of this article who are focused on their own separate story.
• Have appeared on 4 of the 8 main games, ranked 13 out of 64 in total number of appearances. (excluding ports)
• Have appeared in two movies (Mortal Kombat: Annihilation & Mortal Kombat: The Journey Begins).
• Appeared on the comic book series Mortal Kombat (comic books) and all related media to the franchise.
• One of the main characters in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, proving his importance as only the most popular characters made into that game.

SMOKE

• One of the most traditional characters who have been a part of the main storyline, different from other characters of this article who are focused on their own separate story.
• Have appeared on 4 of the 8 main games, ranked 13 out of 64 in total number of appearances, drawing with Baraka, Goro, Kitana and Kung Lao (excluding ports)
• Have appeared in one movie (Mortal Kombat: Annihilation), one TV series (Mortal Kombat: Conquest) and one animated series (Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm).
• Appeared on the comic book series Mortal Kombat (comic books) and all related media to the franchise.
• Was a boss character in MK Deception.

Beside all of this, these characters have a very interesting background and curious information about them, perfect for an article. And after all of these appearances on the games, on other media, importance in the storyline and huge number of fans, if they do not deserve an article I'm just out of words. At least say why not, please.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.222.58.137 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for taking an interest in the Mortal Kombat pages on Wikipedia! If you're interested in writing full articles on fictional characters who are currently only listed on this page, I would recommend finding some reliable sources which are independent of the Mortal Kombat franchise which discuss those characters. If you are able to demonstrate that there is significant, reliable, independent treatment of these characters, you shouldn't have any problems in convincing the community to provide the characters with their own articles. I hope this helps! Neelix (talk) 12:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks man. But what should I do now: post external links that prove the characters are significant here first or create the new pages already with the sources?

Err, the member forgot to mention these articles did once exist and were proven unuseful because of lack of notability. Unfortunately on Wikipedia, character appearances and importance to the franchise (no matter what effect they had on the storyline) are not good enough for inclusion as an article. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and I myself tried to find "notability" for these specific characters but I searched to no avail. Sorrowfully Subzerosmokerain (talk) 02:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

But what about their appearances on other media and on popular culture? I mean, Jax is not only a game character but a movie (two movies!!) and animated character as well, and also starred in his own game. Isn't that enough? And everyone who watched X-Men Origins villain Deadpool instantly remembered of Baraka, even creating that Barakapool buzz, wich I can even source. Aren't these guys notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.48.235.117 (talk • contribs)

What is required is notability outside the franchise (ie. outside Mortal Kombat). That is what is meant by independent treatment of the topic. Neelix (talk) 13:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Barakapool!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.222.58.85 (talk • contribs)

No Daegon, Chameleon, Khameleon, or Meat in the table

Why isn't Daegon in the table? 74.76.28.8 (talk) 18:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

On that note, Khameleon isn't on the table either. I only count 59 characters on that list, and there are 63 playable characters altogether. How come they aren't all on there?74.76.28.8 (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but after a little more checking, I noticed that the four characters missing are Daegon, Chameleon, Khameleon, and Meat. They are all playable, why aren't they in the table?74.76.28.8 (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The table is irrelevant to the article itself. It doesn't really matter. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Mileena an actual name?

The article in its current form seems to suggest every Mileena is a vidya ninja with huge knockers who likes to bite people with her equally huge teeth. Well, I believe it's actually a given name, for example there is Mileena Sumathipala of Lakbima and there's a Mileena Hayes (that is unless it's a pseudonym, like with Kitana Jade). I'd say we should rename it to "Mileena (Mortal Kombat)" (per norm, too) and make this article for the name "Mileena". (And then run a bot though the MK articles to fix it of course.) This or make Mileena (disambiguation) instead.

I wrote this perviously in Mileena's article, but no one cared there. --Asperchu (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Who were the character designers after Tobias?

In for which characters in which media? --Asperchu (talk) 12:44, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

mortal kombat special forces characters

I know there was some characters that only appeared on Mortal Kombat: Special Forces like tremor, but don't know the rest of the new characters, even less i have info about themГонсо (talk) 01:37, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I hate to sound rude, but could you reword that? I'd like to help, if possible but it seems like you're saying that the characters from Sepcial Forces should be on this page? Please tell me if that is the correct assumption. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 02:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

As far as downsizing the article goes...

I have an idea that might help with that. I notice that there are section headings for characters that have their own articles with no description whatsoever of them here. I'm going to use the section for the first game as an example.

All of those characters have their own articles, and we essentially see something like this:

Character

Main article: Character (Mortal Kombat)

I think that takes up too much space. So I propose this: Just a list of wikilinks. When characters have their own articles, we can just make the rest of the list look something like this (which we'd put under the header for the first game):

• Goro
• Johnny Cage
• Kano
• Liu Kang
• Raiden
• Reptile
• Scorpion
• Shang Tsung
• Sonya Blade
• Sub-Zero

Let me know what you guys think. If we can agree that this is the way to go, just let me put it in. Tubularbells1993 (talk) 14:05, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I see your reasoning, but for consistency it would have to reflect the rest of the article, the characters of MK2 as well as Kratos would have to have similar links. I'm not saying it would look bad, just more obscured to the reader. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 01:34, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I understand. I figured there would be some sort of inconsistency with the rest of the article. Tubularbells1993 (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Multiple defacements

I'm not an editor, not sure of how to correct this and don't want to mess this up even more. There are multiple defacements coming from an editor at IP 24.119.211.49. Characters defaced are "Quan Chi" and "Khameleon" -> "Chameleon". Can someone look into this. Thanks 186.45.185.83 (talk) 00:27, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Who is the idiot who removed the Noob Saibot Article?

Seriously, thats a stupid move. The Noob Saibot/Sub-Zero fiasco is possibly the most looked up storyline in Mortal Kombat. It causes alot of confusion among new fans upon learning of the connection. It is why we separated the articles into two when they use to be combined into one. Now Mortal Kombat (2011) is released and there is more people looking up characters on wikipedia than ever before and some idiot decides to axe the Noob Saibot article and instead post some wall of text under this section??? Seriously, thats stupid. Way to fail your visitors looking for information.

All blame aside though, I want to emphasize the amount of visitors trying to find information on the Noob/Sub-Zero connection. Before they had a nice organized page to obtain the info they needed to silence their confusion, and now they donot. Seriously, revert it back.

I see no problem with the Noob Saibot article. In any case, had there been any problem, you could have fixed it yourself. --uKER (talk) 13:28, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Just to note, even the 2011 game sees Noob Saibot and Sub-Zero as two different characters in players perspective. When choosing Sub-Zero, it could be taken as both incarnations from the ninja.Tintor2 (talk) 14:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Please point out policy that Fatalites cannot prove Notability

I've noticed the merging running amok now, simply to cut down the amount of articles needed to watch, etc. Notability has been established with both Kano and Noob Saibot, now it's being said that it's not enough? Who exactly decides the cut off point or what information actually proves Notability? I go by verifiability and if a reliable source mentions a character or their Fatalities (in this case for Mortal Kombat in which characters can derive Notability from their Fatalities) then it is viable. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 21:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Smoke's Cult connection

I was just watching the MK9 Story Mode on YouTube. I don't recall anything about Smoke being sacrificed by a cult. Plus, this (along with much of the rest of the article) is unsourced, and looks like vandalism to me. Yet it's been here awhile. Any reason? Tubularbells1993 (talk) 00:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it was revealed in his ending, or something? Tubularbells1993 (talk) 01:09, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Haven't seen all the characters endings, but for now they have as much impact to the characters as the non-canon endings from previous games, so yes it should be removed.Tintor2 (talk) 01:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

It should be removed and yes his character ending shows that the source of his power is that he was sacrificed by a cult and became an enenra. Sorry for spoilers. I guess it should be considered non-canon. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

No prob. Nevertheless, it really looks like all the character endings contradict the game's story.Tintor2 (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not peeved at all by it (I've never actually played the newest MK games because I haven't been able to buy them so I feel I have the right to 'spoil' it for myself by using WP, so there's a lot I already know without having played it) but it was unsourced, and sounded fishy to me. Besides, I don't think it really counts as a spoiler if it just sheds a little light on his otherwise-mysterious background. It's not like it's an awesome plot twist like you'd find in a movie like Shutter Island. Tubularbells1993 (talk) 17:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be more information about their roles in the non-game media, too?

And not only who played them and where. MK is hardly just a game franchise now. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 12:48, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

More articles needed

I just re-started Jade, I think more characters in the first two also deserve their own articles. And I mean Jax and Kano def, possibly Baraka.

Reasons: recent new appearances (MK2011 and Legacy) and related reception due to the media buzz. And also we need to relax the criteria a bit, just look at the average comic book character on Wikipedia.

After this, I think we should also do selected MK3 characters, like Cyrax and Sektor, maybe Nightwolf and Sheeva, and... Stryker (no, seriously).

Discuss. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:12, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Also, this talk page is really long, so someone might archive the old stuff. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:13, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The Kano article was just merged into here earlier this year for apparently "not having enough reception", even after it was deemed notable enough before (lame, I know), so that one could easily be brought back if you were to just find a little bit more reception for it. And yeah, some reception for Cyrax, Sektor and Stryker could probably be found if you were to look hard enough. Maybe even Quan Chi and Kenshi. Since they are the two most popular characters from the 3D games and the only ones from those games to be playable in MK9, there's bound to be some reception for them too. Maybe I'll try reviving an article here myself sometime. Kokoro20 (talk) 14:04, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes. And yes, I changed my mind on Noob and Kano. (And the others too.) --194.145.185.229 (talk) 12:39, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I may try to bring back the Kano article. Kokoro20 (talk) 10:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

The Cyrax article is now up. I'll do Kano next and maybe even Sektor and Smoke sometime, as I found some reception for them when looking up reception for Cyrax. Kokoro20 (talk) 04:31, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Jax (Mortal Kombat) but totally stubbish, I didn't look for stuff at all. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:06, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Kano (Mortal Kombat), same drill. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:24, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I just restored the Kenshi article. I do think maybe Stryker and Bo' Rai Cho can get their own articles too, as I've found some reception for them and could probably find more if I looked. Baraka and Kintaro could probably their own article too. They are the only two characters left from the first two games who don't have their own articles yet. Kokoro20 (talk) 17:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Bo' Rai Cho? Wow, that was unexcepted. Kintaro's thing is that he's not appearing in the other media except in the comics (in a minor role) and in a relatively few games too (even less as a playable character), so there's not much to write about him. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 13:47, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and I only just noticed... KENSHI? Seriously? OK, I'll see it. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, I want to do Baraka and Stryker next. I've already found pretty much enough reception for them to have an article. But after them, I may want to take a little break from restoring character articles. As for Kintaro, I would think maybe he would appear in some lists about hard bosses or something, because of his notoriety for being really hard to beat in MKII. Kokoro20 (talk) 15:43, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I've now restored the Baraka and Kurtis Stryker articles. I'm wondering though, should that article be named Kurtis Stryker? Because he's almost always referred to as just Stryker. Kokoro20 (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

But it was never about finding ways to make separate articles for everybody, it's about writing the articles when it's due. There's just very little to say about Kintaro (or Kenshi for that matter) that could not just be said here on the list in a condensed form, especially since they pretty much don't appear in the other media (Kintaro's a very minor character in the comics, that's all) and this list covers just the game stuff. Some better candidated (better than Kenshi too): Sindel, Nightwolf, Quan Chi (possibly also Shinnok) - because of actual storyline importance, longtime and still iconic status, relatively extensive other media appearances. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:16, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Tremor

I'm not sure why Kia and Jakatta are listed on this page from MKM, maybe because they were enemies in Armageddon's Konquest mode. However, Tremor should be added, now that he's made a playable appearance in Mortal Kombat for PSVita. Mostly added due to fan demand. Also, from viewing various MK and gaming boards many people want information on this character, but its hard to get because prior to thsi appearance he was so minor. I think a paragraph in thsi section would do the entire gaming community well, and also think it would make an interesting addition as you can talk about his bio being misprinted in the MKTRilogy instruction manual, and how he was cut at last minute for Rain. Or how he was originally going to be orange as can be seen by his pic in MKTRilogy, but chnaged to brown to compesate for his Earth powers. Furthermore, the ironic fan demand for him can be talked about as the reason for his inclusion in PSVitas, as long with his custome move lists and such. Alos, and this is the biggie, when you search for Mortal Kombat Tremor, or Tremor Mortal Kombat you are redirected to this page, yet there is not a singhle mention of him on the entire page...that has to be really confusing to people looking for basic info. EDIT: I'm going to make the page, you can edit it to make it more "official" looking if you like. But I think I added enough evidence here to justify its existence. Thank You.

OK, anyone up to make Quan Chi?

Also possibly Ermac, Kabal and Shinnok, maybe also Rain. --Niemti (talk) 10:03, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Ermac's already done, some really impressive work. --Niemti (talk) 12:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. :') Kabal has now been restored, to go with Ermac and Rain. There wasn't a ton of sources available to work with, but it turned out pretty good. However, I was legitimately surprised at how little Kabal has actually featured in the series canon, alternate media, merchandise, etc., given his popularity. That's three restorations in one month, so I'll be taking a break for awhile. sixtynine ^{• spill it •} 06:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Comics

As everyone knows, a comic book series based on MKX is now in production and will undoubtedly feature many series characters in varying roles. However, they must be doing something that has some relevance to the plot (i.e., Hsu Hao in issue #1) to warrant their inclusion in the article. Name mentions or quick exchanges of dialogue, on the other hand, are not notable. Also, wait until an event (fight scene, major death, etc.) occurs in an actual released issue (not a preview) before editing it in. Lastly, of course, don't forget to always include sources. See other MK articles like Sonya Blade if you're unsure as how to cite comics. Thanks. sixtynine ^{• speak up •} 21:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Shinnok

Well, not much of a "surprise" returning character (thanks, Ed), but if he has enough meat on his storyline bones after MKX and some additional viable reception to go with it, then I'll work on restoring his article. sixtynine ^{• speak up •} 02:34, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Tanya

Tanya is not notable enough right now to warrant her own article. She has next to no storyline in the series canon save for her characteristic trait of betrayal. Shinnok pretty much got in by the skin of his teeth for being the big baddie of MKX, otherwise he'd still be here. Even Cassie Cage has proven more visible and developed than Tanya so far, and she's been in the franchise for like five minutes. Tanya has also not appeared in any alternate series media, there's no available character-development information, and very little notable third-party reception other than what's already in her section (and I researched the bejesus out of these characters for the article as a whole), aside from the requisite game-site salivating about how gory her new MKX Fatalities are, which was the case for nearly every other character confirmed for the game (and has since died down). If she has honest-to-God involvement in a future game or whatever, and can expand beyond merely being a fanboy obsession, then that will open the door. At this time, though, no. sixtynine ^{• speak up •} 19:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

73 should be 74

... Because of Triborg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:80B1:1430:D445:5EC4:61CB:36DE (talk) 07:48, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Notability

How do you decide the notability of a character? In the Spanish wikipedia we have almost one article per character and almost 95% of them have no references at all. see Category. I am going to start a deletion process for all of them as I did with Zelda items and small characters, and your kind reply will help me support my thesis. Triplecaña (talk) 09:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Notability is often a subject of a lot of debate, especially for things like video game characters, but generally, the character must be discussed a substantial amount in reliable, third-party sources, per WP:GNG. Since the exact definition of "substantial" is subjective, debates often pop up whether or not some of these articles meet the notability guidelines. The Kitana article is a good example of what we look for in notability, but also note that the articles don't necessarily have to be quite as massive as that one. Before starting a deletion process for those characters on the Spanish Wikipedia, try and see if they are discussed enough in reliable sources. I don't know what the standards are on the Spanish Wikipedia, but if English sources are allowed there, perhaps, you could borrow some sources from the character articles here. Kokoro20 (talk) 10:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Archive 1