Talk:Casualty series 31/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 14:24, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Apologies this review has been so long coming about. As it's been over half a year since it's nomination, I'll help out, and do this one. If anyone fancies helping out with World Snooker Championship 2018, I'd appreciate it!

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Final Note - I think I have watched maybe a couple episodes of Casualty in my life, so I barely an expert. However, articles on Wikipedia should be able to make sense to most people reading them, regardless of how well attuned they are to the subject. So, If I ask any questions, let me know what I'm missing!

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - No problems here. Other previous season articles pass GA.  Done
• It contains copyright infringements - Basic CopyVio check brings in a few issues, namely the high levels on the Wikia link, and BBC/iMDB pages. These seem to be false positives, as I can't see much copywrite infringement, but I will later check images. Done
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - No banners present. Done
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. - Not a great deal of updates at all this year, so clearly no warring  Done

Links

• The categories confuse me. I know there isn't a guideline saying that "you must have X amount of categories", but being in only three categories (It could have been two if it was only shown in a calendar month) is a little odd. Looking back at previous seasons, and this seems to be a normal thing... Would Category:BBC television dramas or similar be a good place for this? EDIT: looking at this, it seems to be quite common, but there should be a cat on the network it's shown on... Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • I think I understand what you mean. I've placed the category "Casualty (TV series) episodes" in the suggested category so that all the series are covered by this. Soaper1234 - talk 22:23, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• External links look fine. However, perhaps the Series 31 on BBC link should be archived (As there is basicially no information on the page anymore.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • There never really has been any information on the page, but I have archived the link and included a hidden link to the archive URL. Soaper1234 - talk 22:23, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• No Dablinks  Done

Prose

Lede

• The lede goes into details on the series producer, and executive producer, but this information is absent from the infobox. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • There is no parameter for producers in the infobox template. Soaper1234 - talk 22:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
    • There isn't? That seems like pretty basic information to not have in an infobox (For instance, video games have a tonne of parameters for things like artists and producers.) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
      • No, it's a shame as it would make sense to have one. Soaper1234 - talk 11:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oliver Kent is the executive producer until late 2016. Does this mean he produced the whole series (As I assume it was recorded before the series aired), or he only did a few episodes? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - He executively produced the whole series, so I've changed that sentence. Soaper1234 - talk 22:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• as part of the show's thirtieth anniversary celebrations.- Celebrations is a bad word. Makes it sound like this was a party episode.
  •  Done - I've removed the word. Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• Using F1 as an acronym should be explicitly stated on the first mention (As a foundation doctor); with the abbreviation in brackets after. I thought for a second he was a racing driver, despite the wikilink. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• This series also featured the death of a regular character, which was revealed at the time of broadcast as Caleb Knight (Richard Winsor). - Be a little more specific. A regular character could be literally anyone. Saying he's been a reoccurring character for three seasons (Or the year of his first appearance) would be more pertinent. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• "celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of the medical drama." - The actual air date isn't the same as that of the original episode, so it isn't really like this. As this is a lede, it could simply say it commemorated thirty years of promotion, rather than say it's an actual anniversary (Which it wasn't.) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - could you see if the rewording is ok? Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• "Rosie Marcel, who plays Jac Naylor, Guy Henry, who plays Henrik Hanssen, and Alex Walkinshaw, who plays Adrian Fletcher, all making guest appearances." - Perhaps place the characters first, with the actors names in brackets. As far as I know that's what the MOS says for film and television plots (As the characters appear, not the actors.) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:58, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• "The episode featured the hospital, and main characters lives, in danger when an air ambulance crashed in the emergency department car park" - Wording. Doesn't quite make sense. Should read "The episode features both the main characters lives, and the hospital itself in danger when..." Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:58, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
• "Fans "demanded the show won an award" after the episode had aired, while Daily Mirror reporter Sharon Marshall described the anniversary as a "pitch-perfect episode mixing gore, heartache, drama and nostalgia". Despite this, the episode did receive criticism from Midlands Air Ambulance charity, who branded the plot as "insensitive"." - As this article has no reception section, and isn't an article on the episode itself, this should be omitted, as it's not sourced elsewhere on this particular article. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:59, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Don't quite understand this point as there is a reception section in the article, which says a lot of this. See #Reception for more. I've also changed the following reception bit around a bit too. - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Lede's shouldn't really have direct quotes like this. They should summarize. Something more general should be in the lede, simply that the first episode received praise from critics and fans. Would be poor WP:WEIGHT to include specific reviews. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
      • I've tidied the lede a bit (specifically the reception sentences). How does it look? - Soaper1234 - talk 11:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Wikilink longlisted, as it isn't as obvious as "shortlisted". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:01, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Cast

Overview

• "Lisa "Duffy" Duffin, who appeared in the show on-off since its inception, returned in the opening episode of the series" - On-off is quite slangy. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:06, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Arthur made his final appearance in episode 10. - Considering the previous paragraph has thrown loads of names at the reader, it's difficult to know who Arthur is, especially with no context. Perhaps a little more information as to what the character did in order to leave the show is warranted. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:06, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - if you wouldn't checking this out please? Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• "It was announced on 7 February 2017 that the show had filmed a funeral for a regular character.[12] Episode 34 featured the death of Cal Knight (Winsor) after he was stabbed by a white supremacist who blamed Ethan for his father's death." - Merge sentences for flow.
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• "Ian Bleasdale also reprised the role of Josh Griffiths, one of the show's longest-serving characters, but for the entirety of the episode" - remove "but", seems misplaced. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:07, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• "Following the cliffhanger at end of the previous series" - Considering this doesn't go into details, and isn't a plot section, should be removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:10, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• EastEnders "legend" Pam St. Clement was cast as "surly" patient Sally Hodge who appeared in the feature-length episode. - Despite the source saying she's a legend, and using the speech marks, it should probably be removed as non-neccesary. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:10, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• St. Clement's return to the role was announced on 12 December 2016,[38] with Hossington later confirming she would return for a guest appearance in March.[41] St. Clement appeared in episode 27. - Merge these sentences again. Was clearly written as the series was broadcast, but a simple sentence seems pointless, when you can say with Hossington later confirming she would return for a guest appearance in March, and later appeared in episode 27. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:12, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - could you check how the improvement is please? Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• - Are the quotes really necessary? This is a section on the casting, not particurly a commentary on what the cast thought of the casting, unless it was important. Seems quite filler. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:17, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Could you expand on where you mean please? - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • - Specifically this paragraph:

On 16 March 2017, it was announced that Roy Ellisson (John Killoran) and Denise Ellisson (Lucy Benjamin) would be reintroduced in April, alongside their sons Scott Ellisson (Will Austin) and Mickey Ellisson (Mitch Hewer). Hewer said, "I'm very excited for people to meet Mickey and for them to feel the difficulties that he endures in his life". Harper commented, "We met Mickey's parents in 2015, but don't judge a book by its cover. Mickey isn't necessarily cut from the same cloth in his dealings with the Casualty regulars and there will be absolutely explosive consequences."

•  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 11:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

• as the actual cast list is only a list, it's hard to critique, but what exactly sets an actor as being a "guest character", rather than an extra? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:22, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Funnily enough, we have recently discussed this at the talk page of Casualty (series 33). Guest characters tend to be separated into a few categories:
    • Crossover characters (characters who appear from Holby City such as Mo Effanga, Ric Griffin, Jac Naylor).
    • Past characters who guest star (including the 9 cast members who made guest appearances/cameos in the special episode, such as Lenny Lyons, Josh Griffiths, Tess Bateman, as well as other past characters like Ben "Lofty" Chiltern and Ryan Johnson)
    • Characters who appear multiple times in the series (these characters commonly serve a key purpose in the stories, such as Roy Ellisson, Jackie Munroe and Archie Grayling)
  • So the above are guest characters, whereas extras will often be the one-off appearances ("patient of the week" characters) and those who float around in the background. I hope that made sense and thank you for asking the question! - Soaper1234 - talk 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • • It does for me now you have explained it... But I'm not sure that a reader would be able to realise the differences without it being explained at all in the article... I suggest it may be prudent to have a single line (Or, better a footnote) that explains the clasification. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
        •  Done - I was going to add the note in the guest characters column, but it doesn't work so I've added it to the overview. What are your thoughts on its position? Soaper1234 - talk 11:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
          • See this edit. I prefer this to be above the actual list; otherwise it's quite disjointed, and you may feel the need to search for information. See what you think of the wording Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:06, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
            •  Done - I'm happy with that change. Soaper1234 - talk 14:28, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Production

• Only a little thing but "Oliver Kent continued his role as executive producer,[22] while Erika Hossington remained as the series producer.[41]" - Shouldn't that read "whilst"? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• "Casualty: The Movie" - If this is an unofficial nickname taken from a source, it should be speeched marked, no? Italics are for official names. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• She described the episode as "very, very special and unique" - Cut down this to simply "special and unique". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Wikilink one take. - I think we may be grasping at straws with regard to copyright, by actually using a quote here. Simply where it was announced that the episode will be shot in a single take would be sufficient. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Same with a few parts of this article. There are tonnes of quotes when they simply aren't needed. Wikipedia is a summary. If someone says they have used 40 microphones, then say that; a direct quote is not necessary. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:37, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• On 7 February 2017, Digital Spy revealed that a regular character would be killed off in a "shock storyline twist" - This isn't a production sentence. If you wanted to use it, you could state it somewhere else, or regarding the production of keeping spoilers away from the press. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - I've removed the sentence. Shouldn't be there and I think it is actually in the overview section. Soaper1234 - talk 14:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Reception

• My biggest gripe about this section is the order in which this is displayed. It starts with viewership figures, then how the fans reacted, and then critical acclaim. Rightfully, awards are last, but this could easily be it's own subsection. Most reception sections I've read see critical response first, before any important fan response, then viewership. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - I've gone ratings, awards then critical response. What are your thoughts on this? I've also added some more prose that you might want to check. Soaper1234 - talk 21:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• Other nominations in the category include EastEnders, Emmerdale and Hollyoaks.[68] Casualty missed out on the award, with Emmerdale winning instead. - Floaty text - Simply reading that there were three nominees, with Emmerdale winning is sufficient. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 21:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• The episode synopsis for "five days", can we turn that into prose? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:24, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 21:39, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Notes & References

• References aren't archived (So I did it myself) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank you! I'm not actually sure how to archive in the manner that you did. Would you be able to let me know how to do this? Soaper1234 - talk 21:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Sure, it's a script. I'll send you the details through when I'm next at my PC. But you can do it manually if you check the link in the edit summary. I'm a big fan of some scripts, things like set dates as dmy or use British English etc. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:37, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• ref 52 is from Twitter, but all it sources is the full list of episodes for the series. This should be changed to a more reliable source (not that Twitter can't be used for sourcing, but it can easily be sourced better elsewhere) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • We did occur a bit of an issue with this and it was discussed at the article's talk page. The official website says there is 44 episodes, but everything in production of the show says 45 episodes. That is the reason why actress Cathy Shipton's tweet is the source, although the tweet from Erika Hossington (the series producer) may be better. Soaper1234 - talk 21:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • If the official source says it's 44, it's 44, (suggesting the first two episodes are considered a joint episode). A tweet from a staff member (that isn't a press release) isn't going to overweight this. I suggest this should be changed to mirror the official sources, as we shouldn't pick and choose which sources we use for things such as this. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
      •  Done - I've changed the numbers to 44 episodes and changed the source. Soaper1234 - talk 22:45, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• ref 74 - "User must select "BBC1" in the Channel field and then select the appropriate year, month and week to retrieve the figure for each episode" - Is this necessary? Surely we simply only need to list where the source came from, not how to find the information? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • I believe this is included to make it easier for the user to know where to find the information as it is not immediately present at the source. Soaper1234 - talk 21:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • It's not that it will effect any GA nom, but I always ignore such things. If it's important to show where the figures are from, you should <!-- --> hide the text. All the reader needs is the source and the figures. Not a big deal mind. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
      •  Done - Soaper1234 - talk 22:45, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
• ref 56 could easily be split into three sources, and still not be an issue with WP:REFBOMB. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  •  Done - two of the sources weren't actually needed. Soaper1234 - talk 21:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Article is well written.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Article is well sourced for an article on a season.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Covers a lot of information for this particular season, without going into others.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Some NPOV issues have since been resolved.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Article has been on the GA shelf for a year, and hasn't been vandalised once.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Article only uses Wiki Commons images, so no issues.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• I am placing this review on hold, for the above to be seen through and discussed ElectrodeandtheAnode. It's a quality article, and I'm a nit-picker, but there are a few things here that would stop me from passing through a WP:GA. Please let me know if you need anything better explained, or if I'm being a bit silly with any of the points above. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:32, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • I believe I have addressed all the issues above (either with action in the article or a response). Thank you ever so much for doing the review Lee Vilenski. It's great to see it once step closer to a review. Soaper1234 - talk 21:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your time. I'll leave this open for a couple days so the original nominator can feedback with this one (would be a bit unfair as this GA has been open for some time to close it before then).

I will give it another full read after this, and give it a review and say yey or nay. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

• Brilliant. Thank you again for the effort you've put into this. Soaper1234 - talk 22:45, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

• @Lee Vilenski and Soaper1234: My sincerest apologies Soaper1234 that I have not contributed to the improvements which were requested by the reviewer. As you know, I am usually very prompt in responding to queries in GA nominations as I am incredibly passionate about getting GA status articles. I am truly gutted that time was not on my side to help improve the article, but I cannot thank you enough for the time you have invested in this article and the changes you have made to improve it. I have read over it once more and I am satisfied with the feedback and improvements that have been made. Also a HUGE thank you Lee Vilenski for reviewing this article. I am happy for you to read over it again, if there are any more queries, please let us know! ElectrodeandtheAnode (talk) 23:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

• No worries. I don't have time today, and I don't excessively wiki on the weekend, so it'll most likely be Monday. Feel free to update before that time. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:59, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

• @ElectrodeandtheAnode: Don't be daft! I've quite enjoyed being able to get stuck into a project like this again. If anything, I'm sorry I ploughed through it all without letting you have a chance to get involved. As long as you're happy with the amendments I've made then I'd be happy with this review. Soaper1234 - talk 11:29, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

• So long as you are both in agreement. I'll have a read through now. I've done a couple edits to the article for things like consistency in dates, I hope you don't mind. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• @Lee Vilenski: Thank you ever so, so much for your review. I am absolutely thrilled our hard work has payed off and we have another good article for the Holbyverse! I wish you all the best. ElectrodeandtheAnode (talk) 09:57, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• @Lee Vilenski: Thank you very much. You've been incredibly helpful during this whole process. All the best, Soaper1234 - talk 12:05, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• No problem. You were great at responding which I appreciate. If you have any time, please review articles, as there aren't enough people doing them, especially World Snooker Championship 2018, which is one of mine! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• @Lee Vilenski: I've always fancied reviewing an article for GA so I might have to give a go. Soaper1234 - talk 20:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)