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Talk:Boy Scouts of America membership controversies/References review

< Talk:Boy Scouts of America membership controversies
Latest comment: 14 years ago by North8000 in topic Recap of Still-Open Items from May 2010 Reference Review

December 2009

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Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion
As of December 25, 2009, sorted by publisher. [1]

BSA

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  • "American Civil Rights Union". Amicus Curie Brief in Barnes-Wallace v. Bsa. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Core Values. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Duty to God. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Morally Straight. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Litigation Regarding Girls Seeking Membership. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Litigation. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Teaching “Boys to Do Things for Themselves and Others”. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". Access to Government Forums. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". BSALegal.org talks to George A. Davidson, BSA National Counsel, about Winkler v. Rumsfeld. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSALegal.org". What Others Are Saying. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "The Oregonian". Court OKs Boy Scout Recruiting At Schools. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting Magazine". In Support of Values. 2001-04. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Check date values in: |date= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Boy Scouts of America". BSA Sustained By US Supreme Court. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Boy Scouts of America". Venturing BSA. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Boy Scouts of America". Boy Scouts of America Resolution. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting.org". Scouting Forms from the National Council. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
Better to link directly to formes:
  • "The Commissioner". New Membership Validation Process. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • Winkler v. Chicago School Reform Board, et al., Evans v. Berkeley, discussed here [2]
bad format

BSA Discrimination.org

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  • Reliable source?
  • Permission to reprint articles?
  • Merrett, Jim. "Advocate Magazine". Scout's Honor. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination". BSA's Policy on Homosexuals. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination". Discrimination in the BSA. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)


  • "BSA Discrimination". World Scouting Movement. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination". Alternative Youth Groups. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination.org". Boston Minuteman Council: Policy of Nondiscrimination. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination.org". UCC Condemns BSA's Policies. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination.org". BSA Lose Parents. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "BSA Discrimination.org". Saying No to Bias in BSA, or Not?. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Discrimination in the BSA". BSA and Girls in Scouting. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • France, David (2001-08-06). "Newsweek". Scouts Divided. BSA Discrimination. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  • "NY Times". United Way to Continue Aid to Central Jersey Scouts. 2001-08-31. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)


ACLU

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  • "ACLU of Illinois Press Release". Prominent Chicago Religious Leaders Ask Federal Appellate Court to Protect Government Neutrality in Religion and End Pentagon's Extraordinary Funding for Boy Scout Jamboree. 2006-04-05. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
OK
  • "American Civil Liberties Union". Pentagon Agrees to End Direct Sponsorship of Boy Scout Troops in Response to Religious Discrimination Charge. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois". National Boy Scout Organization Agrees to End All Local Government Direct Sponsorship of Troops and Packs. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • Jackson, Derrick Z (2001-06-08). "Boston Globe". Opening the Door to Gay Boy Scouts. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  • "CNSNews.com". Bush Calls Scout Values 'America's Values'. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Coalition For Inclusive Scouting". Official Site. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

Scouting for All

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  • "Philadelphia Inquirer". A Dramatic Protest By Some Eagle Scouts Dismayed That The Boy Scouts Bar Gays As Leaders, Some Members Return Their Prized Eagle Badges. 2000-07-18. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting for All". Boy Scouts Say They're Like KKK Youth. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting for All". The Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors told the BSA They Couldn't Use Its Facility Free of Charge as Long as They Had a Discriminatory Policy. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting for All". The Connecticut Human Rights Organization Affirmed Its Earlier Decision to Exclude the Boy Scouts from the State Employee Fund-raising Campaign. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting for All". About Us. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Scouting for All". Dave Rice. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)


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  • "Lambda Legal". Curran v. Mount Diablo Council of the Boy Scouts of America. 1998. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Lambda Legal". The Impact of the Boy Scouts of America’s Anti-Gay Discrimination. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

US Government

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  • "Library of Congress". House Resolution 853: Recognizing The Boy Scouts Of America For The Public Service The Organization Performs For Neighborhoods And Communities Across The United States. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Library of Congress". House Concurrent Resolution 6. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)
  • "US Dept. of Education – Office for Civil Rights". Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "US Library of Congress". Support Our Scouts Act of 2005. 2005-03-16. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)

GSUSA

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  • "Girl Scouts of the USA". Girl Scout Promise and Law. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

News outlets

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  • "Mormon News". What Happens If Scouts Must Admit Gays?. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Mother Jones.com". Scouted Out. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "MSNBC". Number of Black Atlanta Boy Scouts in Dispute. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • Lerch, Juanita L (2002-01-01). "Out in the Mountains". Vermont Scouts: Is There Change in the Wind?. Mountain Pride Media. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)
  • "Washington Post". Boy Scouts Suspected of Inflating Rolls. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "Washington Times". Boy Scouts Jamboree to Stay at Army Base. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • Dougherty, Jon (2001). "WorldNetDaily". Words Don't Hide Homosexuality. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  • Ness, Carol (1998-09-13). "San Francisco Gate". Scouts Expel Longtime Leader. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)


University

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Books

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  • "Pacific Legal Foundation Press Release". Berkeley Sea Scout Decision Appealed to United States Supreme Court. 2006-07-11. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • Rowan, Edward L (2005). To Do My Best: James E. West and the History of the Boy Scouts of America. Las Vegas International Scouting Museum. ISBN 0-9746479-1-8.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)
  • "Secular Coalition for America". Secular Coalition for America position on federal support of the Boy Scouts of America. 2009. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  • "The Washington Times". Defending the Scouts. 2005-07-13. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

Other

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 N "Boy Scouts Of America Practices Discrimination". Freedom From Religion Foundation. Retrieved October 9, 2007.

Linked site has no content relate to reduced funding by the United Way
Other content on the linked page is dubious or out of date:
  • The nominal "Commander in Chief" of BSA is the President of the United States.
The term is "honorary president" and it is an honorary position
  • It receives direct federal funding through the Combined Federal Campaign. (Federal employees can get paid leave to fund-raise for CFC groups.)
CFC is a charity clearing house and allows federal employees to donate to any charity they desire similar to United Way or programs run by major corporations.
  • Its primary recruiters traditionally have been public school teachers.
  • It traditionally receives free rental from public schools. Half of all Scout units have been directly sponsored by public schools and school boards.
If the school allows access by any outside group, then they must allow access by the BSA, GSUSA and others. If the school charges rent or fees, the Scouts pay. Direct sponsorship by public schools was discontinued in 2005.
  • BSA uses local, state and federal buildings, parks and property free of charge or with major fee breaks, such as the rental for the token fee of $1.00 of Ft. Camp Hill, Virginia, for the Boy Scout annual Jamboree.
This implies that that the BSA as a whole has access when such access is part of agreements between the local council or units and the entities. Nationl will not longer use Fort A. P. Hill after 2010.
  • Boy Scouts has been recognized and advertised on U.S. postage stamps.
As have Girls Scouts, Camp Fire Girls, Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, Mardi Gras, dogs, cats, birds and more.
  • Another major sponsor is the PTA, a group set up to enhance the experiences of all students in the public schools.
This implies a monolithic PTA organization. Only 25% of parent-teacher-student organizations belong to the National Parent Teacher Association— all others are independent. The NPTA is a non-profit and not government subsidized.
  • Additionally, a significant percentage of BSA's overall funding is from United Way, whose own "Eligibility Criteria for Organizational Membership" (adopted by National Congress, November 30, 1972) reads: "Faithfully adheres to a policy of nondiscrimination with respect to age, sex, race, religion, and national origin in connection with the makeup of its governing body, committees, and staff and the persons whom it directly and indirectly serves." United Way of America advertises that "every group receiving funds ... maintains a policy of nondiscrimination."
Assumes a monolithic United Way; collecting and giving is an operation of the local United Way chapter.

 N A Virtual Boy Scout museum — 1910–1919. Boy Scout Stuff. Retrieved 2009-12-25.

Reliable source?
Better references:
  • "Boy Scouts Win in Court", The New York Times, December 16, 1917, retrieved October 7, 2009
  • Macleod, David, Building Character in the American Boy: The Boy Scouts, YMCA, and Their Forerunners, University of Wisconsin Press, ISBN 0-2990940-4-9 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |yeare= ignored (help)

 N "Grassfire.net". Help the Boy Scouts. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

Dubious source; online petition

 Y "Hollywood.com". Spielberg Resigns From Boy Scouts Board. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

OK

 Y Downey, Margaret (1999-11). "Humanist". Challenging the discriminatory practices of the Boy Scouts of America. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Check date values in: |date= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

 Y "Policy Organisation and Rules". Equal Opportunities Policy: Guidelines with reference to Young People: Religious belief. The Scout Association. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)


 Y "Union for Reform Judaism". Memorandum: Boy Scouts of America. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)


 N Robert Baden-Powell (1908) Scouting for Boys, quoted here

Dubious source; bad format

bad format

  • Boy Scouts of America et al. v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000)

 N Scout UK Equal Opportunity Policy for young people and for adults

Bad format
Better sources:
http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185081.pdf
http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs500005.pdf

 N The Scout Association gives positive advice. It’s OK to be Gay and a Scout!Advice for young people

Bad format
Better sources:
http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185081.pdf

May 19th 2010 Listing

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(archived from main article talk page, after which the list on that page will be pared down into action items)

I'm not in favor of going 100% by the book for the source criteria in WP:VER, but many of the ones used her fail by hundreds of miles in the context that they are used...basically using editiorial/opinion/"rant" (primarily) web sites as sources of factual material. The use of these should be limited to illustrating the viewpoints of one side or another of a controversy. I was thinking that a start would be listing the ones of this type. To avoid too huge of changes, I'm proposing a "loose" / narrow review of only websites and on-line material, and where the cited material itself is clearly an opinion piece (i.e. not trying to evaluate the source). These are listed in order of appearance, only a few are numbered because the number can shift with additions or deletions. Dead Links and links with other such simple issues are also noted. Except for a few specialty situations, this reviewed the references, NOT the use of the references.

  • 1. "Boy Scouts & Public Funding....." ("Austin's Atheism Blog") But OK for it's current use.
  • "Discrimination in the BSA" Home page of "BSADiscrimination.org" But OK for it's current use.
  • "The War against the Boy Scouts" But OK for it's current use.
  • "Supreme Court Won't review...." Found note inside it with renewal idea....TRY YO RENEW
  • "Margaret Downey" Opinion piece misused as reference for facts
  • 10. "Scout Badge....." redirects to Wikipedia?
  • "BSA at a Glance" Dead Link
  • 18. "Boy Scouts of America Approved...." Significant text content in the reference
  • "BSA's Policy on Homosexuals" "BSADiscrimination.org" website used as a cite for factual material
  • 24. "Scouted Out" 1st link Appears dead/no content. 2nd link given is just the home page of motherJones.com (not a reference)
  • Jackson, Derrick..... Not reliable (& wrong) due to age, obsolete info
  • "Boston Minuteman Council....." BSADiscrimination.org web site again. Also used (only) as a cite for an OR statement that it doesn't establish
  • 28 Gary R Morella An opinion essay on a personal web site!
  • Dougherty, Jon Opinion piece, but OK for it's current use.
  • "Boy Scout Q&A" Dead Link
  • 34 "Boy Scouts of America Practices.... Basically just a home page of an organization...not a reference.
  • "United Way to Continue....." Somewhat mislabeled. This is a BSADiscrimination.org opinion web page which includes the text from the NY Times article.
  • 42 World Scouting Movement. BSADiscrimination.org combined opinion and fact web page. Maybe OK for current use.
  • 44 "BSA and Religious Belief" BSADiscriminaiton.org web page. Better than the others but does not support nor is it even related to the sentence that cites it. Probably needs moving to the previous sentence.
  • "Alternative Youth Groups" BSA Discrimination.org web page. Updated in 2009 and still left out one of the largest on the cited type ...BSA's LFL
  • "BSA and Girls In Scouting" BSADiscrimination.org web page. Terribly biased with huge omissions, omitting about 90% of the topic/cases/situaitons
  • 52 ".e.g Merino v BSA..." BSADiscrimination.org web page
  • 60 "Boy Scouts Say They're like KKK Youth" Archived Web page from advocacy web site, which obtained text from www.356gay.com (that given link is dead) which got it from AP writer. Appears to have been (mis)titled by that group, appears they have subsequently removed it. (direct link is dead, live link is to archiving site)
  • 65 Ian Urbina...." Dead Link
  • 72 "Congressman Frank" web page from advocacy web site, but content is just Congressman's letter.
  • "A dramatic protest..." web page from an advocacy web site, but part of the content is Philadelphia Inquirer news article.
  • "Memorandum Boy Scouts" Letter / web page by advocacy group, but suitable for its citation use.
  • "UCC Condemns..." BSADiscrimination.org web page, but sole content appears to be an objective 3rd party article.
  • "Secular Coalition...." Advocacy group web page, but suitable for it's current citation use.
  • "78 The Impact of the..." Web page by advocacy group used 5 times as a reference for facts. Appears factual.
  • "The Santa Barbara..." Advocacy group web page but appears factual.
  • "The Connecticut..." Advocacy group web page but appears factual.
  • 82 "Lerch..." Dead Link
  • Barnett, Robert...." Advocacy web site, partially outdated info.
  • "Jim Merrett..." BSADiscrimination web page consisting of Advocate Magazine Editorial/Article used as a cite for facts, but probably OK for the cited use.
  • 85 "Official Site...." Both links dead.
  • "About Us..." Advocacy group web site home page, but suitable for cited use.
  • "Dave Rice.." Advocacy group web page, but suitable for cited use. Archive link works, original link is dead, but site of original link is alive.
  • 89 "Boy Scouts...." Dead Link
  • "Alexander, Frist....." Link sort of dead.
  • "2001 Report..." Dead Link
  • "President Elect Obama..." Web page of advocacy group involved in the described action, but appears OK for the cited use.
  • "Scouting Legal Defense Fund..." Home page of advocacy group, but appears OK for the cited use.
  • "Help the Boy Scouts..." advocacy group web page, but appears OK for the cited use.
  • "Boy Scouts of America Membership...." Badly Biased, Badly Outdated Web page of an advocacy group used 7 times as a reference for factual matters. LFL numbers ommitted from summaries.
  • 111 "BSA Lose Parents" The is an editorial type web page of BSADiscriminaiton.org use twice as a reference for factual content.
  • "Saying no to Bias...." Web page of BSA Discriminaiton.org Mixture of factual and editorial content. Appears to have no content related to where it is cited. Same link with different name as #27 "Boston Minuteman Council..." Probably a citation error.
  • "Whistleblower..." BSADiscrimination.org web page, but appears to be mostly good third party article content.

May 21st 2010 completed list of action items

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The "Action item" List was completed 5/21/10, and archived / copied here. Now the list on the main article talk page will be only open action items. North8000 (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

  • "Supreme Court Won't review...." Dead Link, had renewal idea inside of it but that one is blacklisted by Wiukipedia. DELETE
  • "Margaret Downey" Opinion piece misused as reference for facts DELETE
  • "BSA at a Glance" Dead Link DELETE
  • 18. "Boy Scouts of America Approved...." Significant text content in the reference FIX
  • "BSA's Policy on Homosexuals" "BSADiscrimination.org" website used as a cite for factual material. This page has issues beyond the usual BSADiscrimination.org issues. Including being (possibly deliberately) out of date. The newest material on the page is 17 years old, (current policies were set in 2004) the rest is older than that. But this is the only reference supporting one statement / fact / quote that many folks would consider key. REPLACE TEXT AND REFERENCE WITH SOMETHING SIMILAR
  • Jackson, Derrick..... Not reliable (& wrong) due to age, obsolete info. But used 3 times in places dependent on it. LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE
  • "Boston Minuteman Council....." BSADiscrimination.org web site again. Also used (only) as a cite for an OR statement that it doesn't establish DELETE
  • 28 Gary R Morella An opinion essay on a personal web site! DELETE
  • "Boy Scout Q&A" Dead Link DELETE
  • 34 "Boy Scouts of America Practices.... Basically just a home page of an organization...not a reference. Found noted article inside that site but it is just an editorial piece with no content related to or supporting the statement that cited it. Had previous problem tags and notes. DELETE
  • 44 "BSA and Religious Belief" BSADiscriminaiton.org web page. Better than typical pages in this site. Used as a factual reference.
  • "Alternative Youth Groups" BSA Discrimination.org web page. Updated in 2009 and still left out one of the largest on the cited type ...BSA's LFL LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE, THEN DELETE.
  • "BSA and Girls In Scouting" BSADiscrimination.org web page. Terribly biased with huge omissions, omitting about 90% of the topic/cases/situations LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE, THEN DELETE
  • 60 "Boy Scouts Say They're like KKK Youth" Archived Web page from advocacy web site, which obtained text from www.356gay.com (that given link is dead) which got it from AP writer. Title is web page title, not indication that it was by the writer. Appears to have been (mis)titled by that group. Searched the web site of that group and they have removed this (not just moved). Direct link is dead, live link is to archiving site. DELETE
  • 65 Ian Urbina...." Dead Link DELETE
  • 82 "Lerch..." Dead Link DELETE
  • Barnett, Robert...." Advocacy web site, partially outdated (wrong) info. CHANGE TEXT THAT CITED IT TO CLARIFY
  • 85 "Official Site...." Both links dead. DELETE
  • 89 "Boy Scouts...." Dead Link DELETE
  • "Alexander, Frist....." Link sort of dead. Two quotes depend on it. TRY TO REPLACE
  • "2001 Report..." Dead Link DELETE
  • "Boy Scouts of America Membership...." Badly Biased, Badly Outdated Web page of an advocacy group used 7 times as a reference for factual matters. LFL numbers omitted from summaries. LEAVE FOR NOW. TRY TO REPLACE, THEN DELETE
  • 111 "BSA Lose Parents" The is an editorial type web page of BSADiscriminaiton.org used twice as a reference for factual content. DELETE
  • "Saying no to Bias...." Web page of BSA Discriminaiton.org Mixture of factual and editorial content. Appears to have no content related to where it is cited. Same (duplicate) link with different name as #27 "Boston Minuteman Council..." Probably a citation error. So it is irrelevant to the use, and a duplication of another reference. DELETE.

North8000 (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 12:58, 21 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Recap of Still-Open Items from May 2010 Reference Review

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Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

(written 5/22/10, copied from main article discussion section on June 10th 2010)

The Open Reference Problems / Action Items are those that will be harder to fix. Five fail wp:VER reference criteria by a mile and one is dead. Three are the "BSADiscrimination.org" web site which has numerous issues discussed above. However, all of these remaining ones have significant content dependent on them and I did not feel comfortable simply deleting them.

  • "BSA's Policy on Homosexuals" "BSADiscrimination.org" website used as a cite for factual material. This page has issues beyond the usual BSADiscrimination.org issues. Including being (possibly deliberately) out of date. The newest material on the page is 17 years old, (current policies were set in 2004) the rest is older than that. But this is the only reference supporting one statement / fact / quote that many folks would consider key. REPLACE TEXT AND REFERENCE WITH SOMETHING SIMILAR
  • Jackson, Derrick..... Not reliable (& wrong) due to age, obsolete info. But used 3 times in places dependent on it. LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE
  • "Alternative Youth Groups" BSA Discrimination.org web page. Updated in 2009 and still left out one of the largest on the cited type ...BSA's LFL. LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE, THEN DELETE.
  • "BSA and Girls In Scouting" BSADiscrimination.org web page. Terribly biased with huge omissions, omitting about 90% of the topic/cases/situations LEAVE FOR NOW, EVENTUALLY REPLACE, THEN DELETE
  • "Alexander, Frist....." Link sort of dead. Two quotes depend on it. TRY TO REPLACE
  • "Boy Scouts of America Membership...." Badly Biased, Badly Outdated Web page of an advocacy group used 7 times as a reference for factual matters. LFL numbers ommitted from summaries. LEAVE FOR NOW. TRY TO REPLACE, THEN DELETE

North8000 (talk) 12:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

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