Talk:Blue-eyed soul/Archives/2020

Recent move

I've reverted the earlier undiscussed move of this article to Non-black Americans in soul music. Firstly, it's inaccurate - the article covers non-black people from Britain and elsewhere. Secondly, whether or not some editors consider it to be racist, it is the WP:COMMONNAME for the music discussed in the article. See also here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:09, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

• .. and again, the article has been moved without any discussion. I've raised the issue at WP:RMT. Moves need to be discussed with other editors and agreed - unilateral moves, for whatever reason, should be reverted. But, I'm perfectly happy to discuss whether the existing title of this article is appropriate. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:42, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

External links modified

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Sophisti-pop

A message to Guy Hamilton/Ghmyrtle. the Sophisti-pop link

• Sophisti-pop - a 2010s term applied retrospectively to a number of 1980s pop acts, many of whom would have fallen under the 'blue-eyed soul' tag at the time
• Yacht rock - another music genre term applied retrospectively to a certain group of acts by journalists and fans

I don't know why you removed the Sophisti-pop link when a lot of UK artists who would have been referred to as 'blue eyed soulsters' or 'soul poppers' in the 1980s British music press (an era of "back Back BACK!", "Sir Billiam of Idol", "Sir Clifford of Richard", "Paul 'Thumbs Aloft' McCartney" and "Dick Spratsley" of Ruddy Big Pig fame. Pur-lease!) would be now be listed under this circa 2005 invented genre. A lot of these British acts were blue eyed soulsters (.e.g. The Style Council and Wet Wet Wet) with Telstar Records even using it for a various artists compilation back in the day. I think its strange you think its irrelevant especially when it seems to be you who have resisted the change of the title "Non-black Americans in soul music".

please note: I dislike the term Sophisti-pop, it looks dreadful (especially with that hyphen) and makes you sound like an complete eejit when you say "Well I love 1980s Sophisti-pop, it's my favourite type of music". PS. I don't know who added the 'Yacht rock' link... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.239.202 (talk) 14:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

References

The term "blue-eyed soul" is pretty much restricted to the 1960s, when the term was coined, and maybe the early 70s. I can countenance "Yacht rock" being mentioned in the article, but 80s style "Sophisti-pop" doesn't seem very relevant to me; and "a lot of UK artists who would have been referred to as 'blue eyed soulsters' or 'soul poppers' in the 1980s British music press.. would be now be listed under this.. genre.." seems to be unsourced original research. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Then you have must not be bothering to use the wiki links correctly as it clearly states with references and links...

The Style Council Genres - Pop, sophisti-pop, blue-eyed soul, new wave, jazz.

Wet Wet Wet Genres - Soft rock, pop, blue-eyed soul (Wet Wet Wet being the band who had an album called "Popped In Souled Out" just in case you didn't know or care)

Simply Red Genres - Pop, soul, blue-eyed soul, sophisti-pop (Simply Red being the band who went one better than Wet Wet Wet and decided to call their last album "Blue Eyed Soul")

All big acts from the 1980s all who have been referred to as 'blue eyed soul' poppers on back in the day in various magazines (though I am not going to spend hours of my life uploading various issues of Cut, RM, No.1 etc just so you can get a source) as no one could have used Sophisti-pop in a magazine if it wasn't invented until 2002.

PS. from The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica (Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree....) - Blue-eyed soul

"Other performers who were regarded as blue-eyed soul singers included Laura Nyro in the 1960s, Robert Palmer and the Average White Band in the 1970s, and in the 21st century Justin Timberlake, Adele, and Sam Smith".

Therefore, if people in the 21st century are being regarded by academics as blue-eyed soulsters and it was such a marketable genre in the 1990s that Telstar used it for a compilation album title (meaning that... 01 Curtis Stigers /02 George Michael /03 Lisa Stansfield /04 Curiosity Killed The Cat /05 Eurythmics /06 Wet Wet Wet /07 Elton John /08 Ten Sharp /09 Michael Bolton /10 Hall And Oates /11 Paul Young /12 Kenny Thomas /13 Will 2 Power /14 Spandau Ballet /15 Rick Astley /16 The Commitments ...have all been seen as blue-eyed soul acts) and if it was a thing in the 1970s...then it must have been used in the 80s (especially if Sophisti-pop is just a 21st century idea to group various blue-eyed soulsters, jazz-poppers and people who may have bought Pretzel Logic on CD, together for on online list) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.239.202 (talk) 13:30, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

In regards to Simply Red...

from Encyclopedia of Popular Music (4 ed.) Edited by Colin Larkin Publisher: Oxford University PressPrint Publication Date: 2006 Print ISBN-13: 9780195313734 Published online: 2009 Current Online Version: 2009eISBN: 9780199726363

"Inventing his own brand of blue-eyed soul with hits like the ubiquitous adult radio classic ‘Holding Back The Years’..." (a record which came out in 1985...which is slap-bang in the middle of the 80s!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.239.202 (talk) 14:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Hmm.... I don't think many of your arguments stack up, but I'm not prepared to make a big deal out of it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)