Talk:Black Tie (30 Rock)/GA1
GA Review
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I'm reviewing this one. Please see my general comments below the individual ones...
Lead
- "It was written by Kay Cannon and series' creator Tina Fey. The director of this episode was Don Scardino." I'd suggest rewording this to "It was directed by Don Scardino, and written by Kay Cannon and series creator Tina Fey." It just flows better, in my opinion. If you agree, I'd also change it in the beginning of the "Production" section.
- You mention numerous guest appearances in the first paragraph here, but only three of them (Rosselini, Forte and Reubens) are mentioned and cited within the article itself. Further, a few of these (like Brown and Chapman) are recurring characters in the show, aren't they? It seems to me the only ones that warrant a separate mention in the lead are truly notable guest appearances (which can be determined by whether they are mentioned by outside sources and included in the article), so I'd recommend only mentioning Forte, Rossellini and Reubens in the lead, and taking the rest out. (Leave them under the guest stars section of the infobox, that's fine.)
- Yes, Brown and Chapman are recurring characters, but didn't receive star billing until season two. Other season one 30 Rock articles have them as guest stars. I'm just following the flow.
Plot
- "Fearing that the invitation will be a date, at the party Liz asks Jack if they are on one, to which Jack answers no to." This is awkwardly written. Can we change it to something like, "Liz fears the invitation is a date, but Jack denied this when asked" or something like that.
- Done.
- "While the two talk, Price Gerhardt (Paul Reubens) makes his entrance, in which he is a cripple with..." The "in which he" doesn't really make sense. It's not the entrance in which he is a cripple. He just is one. Maybe break it into two sentences? Also, isn't the term "cripple" offensive?
- I think I got it.
- "Meanwhile, Jack's ex-wife, Bianca (Isabella Rossellini), enters the room, to his shock." Again, awkward. Maybe just, "Meanwhile, Jack is shocked to see his ex-wife Bianca (Isabella Rossellini) enter the room."
- Done.
- "Later, Bianca tells Liz that she believes she could make Jack truly happy, which upsets Bianca." I don't get it. Bianca is the one who made the statement, yet she's also the one who is upset? Do you mean she's not happy with the idea that Liz could make Jack happy? If so, could you make that more clear?
- Yeah, she's not happy that Liz could make Jack happy and stuff. Also, I think I got it.
- "Later, Prince Gerhardt decides he can now die happy, after he and Jenna discussed their relationship..." I'm confused, because there is no previous mention if them having a relationship at all. Could you segue into this better?
- After Jenna is invited to dine with him, she asks him to dance, but he can't, cause he's disable. So, she dances for him, which makes him happy. I didn't think that'd be important to include. Do you think so?
Production
- "In a June 2007 interview, Reubens revealed that his role as Prince Gerhardt Hapsburg was created for him by Fey." Is there any particular reason the June 2007 interview has to be mentioned in the prose of the article? Why not just, "Fey wrote the role of Prince Gerhardt Hapsburg specifically for Reubens, and he did not have to audition" or something like that?
- Done.
- Everything from the second paragraph about Cannon is about her appearances in different episodes. Why is this even included on the "Black Tie" article? It seems like something more appropriate for Cannon's page...
- Removed.
- The source you use for Will Forte's apperances discusses Chris Parnell, but not Forte. Can you swap it out?
- Oops, replaced ref.
- The last half includes way too much SNL-related info. I can see mentioning that Forte was an SNL alum, and that Fey and Morgan were also on that show. But do we really need a list of every single past cast member who has appeared on 30 Rock, or the mention about Baldwin's hosting?
- Removed.
Reception
- "IGN contributor Robert Canning praised the episode, calling it a "fantastic episode", and rating it an 8 out 10." The double use of "episode" is a bit redundant. Why not change it to "IGN contributor Robert Channing called it a "fantastic episode" and rated it 8 out of 10."
- Done.
Don't take this personally, ThinkBlue, because you know I'm a fan of your work. But I'm not quite sure this is ready for GA status. It seems like there's a lot of padding in here to try to stretch out the length of the article. Once you remove the stuff about Cannon from the Production section, and about all the SNL cast members, you'll not only have a significantly shorter article, but you'll also have roughly 15 less sources that it has now. But more importantly, you're neglecting a major source of information for this article: the Season 1 DVD commentary track. According to DVD Verdict, Tina Fey's commentary on "Black Tie" is "the most engaging and informative of the bunch". DVD commentaries are often the best source of info for an individual episode guide, and it's completely missing here.
- Well, I wished I had the DVD, but I don't. I do remember Fey saying something about the hotel that the party was held, cause it was haunted or something. -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 16:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
- Can you rent it? It just seems weird to pass a GA that is neglecting such a huge resource of information... — Hunter Kahn 17:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
- I'll try to see if I can get it. -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 17:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
- Update: According to Colin Jacobson of DVDMG, in regards to the "Black Tie" commentary, "She sticks with episode specifics, as she throws out a few details about the program and its components. Fey doesn’t tell us a lot, but she offers a smattering of moderately interesting thoughts and some funny comments."[1] -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 18:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
- I'll try to see if I can get it. -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 17:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
- Can you rent it? It just seems weird to pass a GA that is neglecting such a huge resource of information... — Hunter Kahn 17:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Let me know what you think, but I'm leaning toward putting off the GAN for now, and then bringing the nomination back later after you've added the commentary track stuff. I won't fail it until I hear from you, so let me know your thoughts... — Hunter Kahn 15:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)