Talk:Bilche-Zolote

I would like to draw readers attention to a number of issues that are of great importance due to the delicate nature of this area, its complicated history and the need to respect all those who lived or indeed died in and around Bilche Zolote/Bilcze Zlote.

This is also necessary due to the sudden spotlight throw onto the area by the much welcome film released April 5th 2013 about a Jewish family that was able to hide from the Germans for 500 days in a local cave.

Legal context. It is important to report facts correctly, in line with international law. This area, at this time was part of Poland. It is a fact that it was occupied illegally by the Soviet Union from September 1939 on the basis of an agreement made between Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Soviet Union. Further to this internationally unrecognised agreement, the whole of eastern Poland was incorporated into the Soviet Union, including Bilcze Zlote as it was then known. The German occupation from 1942 only added a further layer of illegality. When the area was retake by the Soviets in 1944, the forced the puppetregime in Poland, set up by Stalin to recognise the annexations which occurred in 1945. Lex retro non agit, therefore the area up to 1945 is legally known as Wolyn (Volhyn) and the town as Bilcze Zlote and was in (occupied) Poland. Ethnic and political context. Upon occupying eastern Poland in 1939, the Soviet authorities commenced a programme of ethnic cleansing, in fact one of the biggest in history where over 2 million Poles were deported in cattle trucks to Siberia. Only have of them survived the war. When Germany attacked its former ally in 1942, they conducted genocide primarily against the Jewish population that had been living there since their invitation to come to Poland by the king of Poland, Casimir in 15th century.

It should however also be noted that the Germans were able to mobilise nationalist factions within the Ukrainian population- The Ukrainian pro-Nazi militia staged pogroms and assisted the Nazis in executions of Poles and Jews. Ukrainian brigades were formed within the German army and the SS which later went on to actively participate in the liquidation of civilians in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943 and the Warsaw Uprising in 1944. The Volhyn Genocide, conducted by nationalist Ukrainian forces, with the quiet acceptance of the German occupiers resulted in the massacre of 50,000 civilians, predominantly women and children. adam@skat.com.pl 89.71.19.146 (talk) 14:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)----Reply

Photos needed! edit

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I've been working to improve this article a lot, but I need photographs I can use of Bilche Zolote, Verteba Cave, the Jews who hid there in WWII, the Landscape Park, or anything else about this subject. If anyone reads this that has access to such photos, please leave a note here or contact me at my user page. Thanks! --Saukkomies ^talk 08:57, 26 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Reinstating Nicola's home page link edit

Latest comment: 14 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

I am adding Nicola's home page, since being a neutral third party, I would not be having a conflict of interest by doing so. --Saukkomies ^talk 05:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Indeed, it looks like you have no conflict of interest here. However, that's not the only problem with the link. Remember that Wikipedia is not just a collection of links. If there is useful information in the website, then add it to the article. One thing to bear in mind, is: does this link provide something to the readers that would not be available in the article if the article was featured-quality. I'll leave that up to you, as you know more about this topic, but is there anything there that can not be included in the article? Does the reader need to know this man's biography? If so, maybe there should be an article about him here. If he's not notable, then we presumably don't need to link to his bio. (I realise there's more to the website, but that's something to think about.)

Is there any evidence that this website is a reliable source that could be used as a reference? Is this man an expert of some sort? I see that the Verteba and Priest's Grotto Caves section is somewhat lacking in inline citations. You'd be better finding more reliable sources to make the article verifiable, and providing as much of the relevant information in the article. I'm not going to remove the link again, as I see that there is some value to it, but it's always worth questioning whether or not an external link is necessary.--Beloved Freak 08:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Wow - that is fantastic and useful information, BF. Thanks - it helps me a lot in determining whether or not to include links in articles, something I honestly tend to probably over-do... At any rate, though, this link does fit all the criteria you described: it is verifiable and reliable information (the biographical information seems to support what I've already found out about Nicola, and it provides links to solid sources such as NBC News). It provides a link to at least one video that goes into detail about this subject and Nicola himself (the NBC News interview), which would not be something that could be included in the Wiki article and is relevant and interesting to anyone researching this subject. I'm not entirely certain whether Nicola is notable enough to warrant a separate Wiki article about him, but there are aspects of his life that are relevant to the subject in the articles I wrote up that are supported in further detail in that link to his home page. He is indeed an "expert" in this: being the very person who discovered the evidence in the Ukrainian caves of the Jewish families who had hidden there during the Holocaust.

However, I do agree with you that Wiki articles need plenty of reliable inline footnote links, but I do honestly believe that these articles have them in sufficient quantity: I've earnestly attempted to support any claim made in the text with a reliable source that is footnoted directly. But thanks for the advice - it is good advice and I see that by following it earnestly one could improve articles. --Saukkomies ^talk 12:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Glad to help. :) --Beloved Freak 17:01, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

External links modified edit

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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