Talk:Big Timber Creek

Update

In case anybody is wondering, I'm in the process of growing the new teeth I need to chew what I've bitten off here. My research on the geology and history is nearing completion. I would rather have sections sit blank for a while than type a bunch of worthless junk in just for looks. Stay tuned. --Milkbreath 19:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Facts, I think

I was told that the Army Corps of Engineers dredged Big Timber Creek back during the 30s or 40s in order to make a channel. Supposedly it was done from about where Hirsch Lake empties into it and then towards Westville. I was told this my many old-timers, but I have zero way of proving it or finding information. However, I can do know that the channel in the Runnemeded area is a very steep drop off from the low tide mark. It goes from a gradual slope to a what seems like straight down drop. At low tide, I saw it measured at 17 feet and that wasn't even in the center of the channel. And once you get around Clements Bridge, the channel noticeably becomes very shallow going from 15 feet to around 3-5 feet in an instance. I would have to beleive that it was dredged at one time in order to have that shape and that depth, but that's just my opinion.

Another "fact" is that after the Hessians rout at Red Bank, their column marched across Clements Bridge on their way to Haddonfield. It is said that in order to lighten their load, they dumped cannons over the bridge. This is documented in the "History of Runnemede" by William Leap (dont know the ISBN#). Supposedly someone dove and found the cannons in recent times but was unable to retrieve them due to the significant tides and muddy waters.

And it is worth noting that the tides are unusually active for Big Timber Creek. It is not uncommon to see a 6ft difference between the low/high tide marks. I could certanly provide photos as proof, if interested. Buggsbuny 13:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, Buggsy. I will certainly pursue the dredging lead. Maybe they measured flow rate while they were at it, which I haven't been able to find. Yes, that stretch in Runnemede is much like a ditch.

I've known about the Hessian cannons for some time, and I even contemplated making a magnetic anomaly detector to find them with. I'm pretty sure the bridge has been in the same spot all along. You say they've been found? Cool. Let's get them up.

Any photos would be welcome, though whether we can use them in the article in its final form is unknown now. Just upload anything you think pertinent to Commons and link to it on this talk page. If it would be a lot of trouble for you to get the photos about the tides (like you're in a wheelchair or something), just tell me where to go, and I'll do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milkbreath (talk • contribs) 14:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Clements Bridge is NOT the original location. According to the History of Runnemede book and info from the Camden County Historical Society, the original bridge was about 100 yards north (downstream) of where it is now. As far as the cannons being found for sure, the guy who said he found them had no more proof than his story he told. But good luck with a metal detector. At low tide during a boat trip, I distinctly remember seeing the ENTRIE frames of 2 rusted out cars sticking out of the water. And having dragged for bodies while doing fire dept. duties, I've witnessed entire window air conditioners, cast iron radiators, bicycles, gates, and just about anything else you can think of be hooked and brought up from the bottom ;)

Also, there is the "skeleton" of a very old boat just past Clements Bridge in Glendora/Deptford. You can only see it at very low tide, but it is resting on the shore line. The keel and ribs of this boat are clearly visable. This ain't no row boat or cabin cruiser. I'm talking a large flat bottom wooden boat that seems very old. The story I was told by old timers is that it dates back to Revolutionary times. It was a barge used to bring goods from the furthest reaches of the creek and then transported to Philly, etc. Someone else told me it was used for iron ore, but I would think the ore would come out of the Pine Barrens; be made into iron goods; and then disembarked to go downstream. Therefore, I doutbt it was an ore barge. How true is story behind the boat? I have no idea or even how to find out. But its worth nothing and if I can get a pic, I'll post. Its obviously a rather large and old wooden boat that met its demise one way or another.

And one other cool thing. The Dutch sailed as far as Clements Bridge back in 1620. They even drew a map that is shown in the History Runn book. It clearly shows the island behind the dump, Almonesson Creek, and the creek as it almost is today in Runnemede. I can scan and post with proper credit. Plus I semi-know the guy who wrote the book.Buggsbuny 19:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Damn, Sam, maybe you should be writing the article. I started with nothing but an interest.

The histories of Camden and Gloucester counties I looked at said nothing about the location of the bridge. I'll have a closer look at the old maps. Good point about the incredible amount of junk we could expect to find in there.

I would think from what I've seen in books like Early Forges and Furnaces that there was no iron ore coming down the creek. Where would it have been going?

What "History Runn" book? I must have it. Oh, you mean History of Runnemede. I'm on it. --Milkbreath 20:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

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