Talk:Battle of Nahrawan/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: CPA-5 (talk · contribs) 18:04, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Will do this in the coming days. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:04, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @CPA-5:. Any updates? AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 13:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Yes my holiday was pretty good thanks for asking now back to work.

Hmm, that sounds cool. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• What kinda English style do the article uses?

American. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• The Battle of Nahrawan (Arabic: معركة النهروان‎, romanized: Ma'rakat an-Nahrawān) Arabic is too common to link per MOS:OVERLINK.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• fought between the army of caliph Ali and the rebel group --> "fought between the army of Caliph Ali and the rebel group"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• the rebel group called Kharijites Were they really a "rebel group"? The article says it's a sect.

At the time of this battle, they were just a rebel group, but they evolved into a sect in later decades. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• labelled by the group as against Qur'an I believe an article between "against" and "Quran" is needed.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• Just realised that "labelled" is a British word.

• headquarters by Nahrawan canal --> "headquarters by Nahrawan Canal"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• Of the 4000 rebels, some 1200 were won over with promise of amnesty while majority of the remaining 2800 --> "Of the 4,000 rebels, some 1,200 were won over with promise of amnesty while majority of the remaining 2,800"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

The rest will come soon. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 08:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I am looking forward to it. Thank you. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Background

• the third caliph Uthman resulted in a rebellion and he was assassinated in 656 --> "the third caliph Uthman resulted in a rebellion and was assassinated in 656"?

I think it is correct as is. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• the son-in-law and cousin of Muhammad I don't think Muhammad should be linked he looks very common irl.

Link removed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Quran vs Qur'an.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Link blasphemy.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• They became known as Harurites --> "They became known as the Harurites"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Ali, after some time, visited the Harura camp Is this still in July 657?

Yes. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Link Khawarij.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Nahrawan on the east bank of Tigris --> "Nahrawan on the east bank of the Tigris"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Rest will follow soon. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 09:04, 7 June 2020 (UTC) Prelude

• Kharijites denounced Ali as caliph, declared him, his followers, and Syrians --> "The Kharijites denounced Ali as caliph, declared him, his followers, and the Syrians"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• and elected Abd Allah ibn Wahb al-Rasibi their caliph --> "and elected Abd Allah ibn Wahb al-Rasibi as their caliph"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• If anybody did not share their view If I read this sentence it gives me a non-encyclopaedic toon. Maybe replace "anybody" with "someone" or "somebody"?

Modified. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• As a result, some 12,00 Kharijites left Ehm typo?

Somebody fixed that for me ;) AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Coming soon. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

@CPA-5: Could you please go through the entire article and post your suggestions on whole of it, so that I can then implement them all in one go? I think it will be easier for both of us. Thank you ;) --AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 14:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

• Here's the full review. Cheers.

Battle

• He asked Kharjites to surrender the murderers and accept peace In Nahrawan?

Yes. The preceding paragraphs already mentiones that he mvoed to Nahrawan with his army. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Ali sent his cavalry in front of his infantry --> "He then sent his cavalry in front of his infantry"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• while others left the battlefield and went into mountains --> "while others left the battlefield and went into the mountains"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Ibn Wahb was left with 2,800 fighters --> "Ibn Wahb was then left with 2,800 fighters"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• foot soldiers vs foot-soldiers?

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• 400 hundred wounded were found Wait what's this? Two figures?

Haha, 400*100 = 40,000 wounded :D fixed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• On Ali's side, seven to thirteen men are said to have died --> "On Ali's side, 7–13 men are said to have died"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Aftermath

• after which they will go with him on the new campaign. Ali agreed and moved to Nukhayla This sounds like a romance?

Maybe, but the sources report it like that ;) AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• however, the camp was almost completely deserted Why was it deserted?

Because the dudes didn't want to fight. Clarified. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• he was forced to abandon the Syrian campaign --> "he was forced to abandon his Syrian campaign"?

Changed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Mu'awiya, who became caliph a few months after the assassination of Ali, who became known as Mu'awiya I? The readers don't know he was known as Mu'awiya I.

He became known as "Mu'awiya I" when his grandson, his namesake, became caliph. I think going into that isn't necessary. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Second review
• I think both the Battle and the Aftermath sections' paragraphs should be splited.

Done for battle; aftermath is already two paras. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• through negotiations, a move labelled by the group British labelled.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Ali himself was assassinated by one of the Kharijites in January 661. --> "Ali himself was later assassinated by one of the Kharijites in January 661."

I think "January 661" should do. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• The controversial policies of the third Caliph Uthman --> "The controversial policies of the third caliph Uthman"?

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Ali, the son-in-law and cousin of Muhammad --> "Ali ibn Abi Talib, the son-in-law and cousin of Muhammad"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Could you add an image or so maybe an image of the battle and maybe add the location on the map in the infobox. I think this could help people see where it was located on the map of Iraq.

Actually I don't know its coordinates. The battle field was somewhere near the mdoern-day Baghdad. I can add Iraq map with marker on Baghdad:/ What do you think about it? AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

• "17 July 658 CE (9 Safar 38 AH)" Why are there here Arabic or Persian (don't know which one) dates while the body doesn't use this date?

Removed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• The leader of the Kharijites is not included in the body nor lead?

He is mentioned in the body. I didn't mention him in the lead bacuase to Kharijites their leaders were not as important as their dogma.AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Per MOS:INFOBOX both the 14,000 and the 2,400 are not included in the body and it should because it summarise the body (infobox is the same as a lead).

Fixed. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Remove the citations because they normally should be cited in the body.

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "7-13" --> "7–13"

Done. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Sources

• "Kennedy, Hugh" --> "Kennedy, Hugh N."
  • No, the name should be referenced as given in the works in question. Our article may have the middle name initial, but he is universally known and referenced without it in scholarship. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Could you standardise the 10/13-digit ISBNs?
  • As far as the templates are concerned, the ISBNs are as given in the works in question. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Some ISBNs use at least one hyphen and others don't maybe standardise them?

As in the above point, they have been reproduced here as in the original publications. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Kennedy (2004)" should have an original date in it.
  • For new editions of works, this is not necessary, only for reprints. Kennedy's work for example is a completely revised edition in both its 2nd and 3rd editions, so the original date really does not apply. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Isn't this a better link?
  • The links were not provided, so the template generated a search automatically. Now there is a url to the exact online version of the article. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Does Levi Della Vida, G.'s link go to the same volume of the series? Also where are the page numbers 1,076 and 1,077 in the citations?

I don't know why they don't provide page numbers or volume numbers on the Brill website. But rest assured, the bibliographic data in the article is accurate.AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Isn't this a better link?
  • The links were not provided, so the template generated a search automatically. Now there is a url to the exact online version of the article. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Page 913 of Morony isn't included in the citations?

This is becuase in Sources we give the range of the entire article, but only specific page numbers of the cited information in the body.AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Could you translate Wellhausen?
  • Done Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
• Isn't Wellhausen copyright-free because he died over 100 years ago so shouldn't it have a copyright-free logo?

Could be done, but I don't how to do it :D Would you mind doing that? Thanks. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That's it from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi CPA-5, as some of your remarks above concern book templates that I created, I answered your queries instead of the nominator. I also took the liberty to do some of the requested work on the citations. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 07:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Cplakidas for the fixes and help. And thank you CPA-5 for the detailed review. My apologies for this long delay in addressing the issues; was occupied with exams. I think I've now addressed all the points. Thank you. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Status query

CPA-5, where does this review stand? It appears to be over two months since you've posted to it, and nominator AhmadLX believes they have addressed all the issues. If you aren't able to continue the review, please let us know and I'll see if I can find someone to take over. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

CPA-5 has asked me to finish the review for him.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:53, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

• Please add a map.
• Kharijites were a group of pious allies of Ali during the First Muslim Civil War. Awkward, twice using Kharijites within a few words of each other.
• in permanent break between the group and the rest of Muslims, awkward
• Link Caliph, Medinese
• Capitalize Caliph
• and settled at a place called Harura. They became known as the Harurites. Merge the last sentence into the prior sentence.
• The arbitration proceedings continued however and after about a year (March 658),[5] when Ali refused to denounce the arbitration and sent his arbitration delegation headed by Abu Musa Ash'ari to carry out the talks, Kharijites decided to leave. Awkward
• They declared war against such infidels licit and started practice of interrogating people about their opinion on Uthman and Ali. People not sharing their view were executed. Awkward, both sentences should probably be combined
• He invited Kharijites to join him in war against Mu'awiya as before. Awkward
• Ali nevertheless persuaded them that war against Mu'awiya and Syrians was more important and started march to Syria Awkward
• On the way he received news of the Kharijites' murdering various people because of their beliefs. Ali sent one of his men for inquiry but he too was killed by the Kharijites. Combine these and rephrase. Perhaps something along the lines of "En route, he received word of the Kharijites murdering people for their beliefs and sent sent one of his men to investigate, but he too was killed by the Kharijites."
• considered blood of his companions and followers licit clarify and rephrase
• Most of the Kharijites were on foot, while Ali's army consisted of archers, cavalry as well as foot-soldiers. He then sent his cavalry in front of his infantry. Infantry was divided in two rows and archers were placed in between the first row and cavalry. Rewrite
• He ordered his army to let the Kharijites start the battle. Kharijites then attacked Ali's forces with vigor and broke through his cavalry. Again using "Kharijites" in close proximity. Perhaps "He ordered his army remain on the defensive. When the Kharijites attacked they broke through his cavalry" or somesuch.
• Kharijites although decimated rose up again. The battle of Nahrawan cemented their break from the community[13] and majority of them abandoned city life and resorted to brigandage, robbery, raiding and pillaging settled areas and other anti-state activities Awkward--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 13:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Sturmvogel 66 for taking up the review. I have addressed all of the above points. Thanks. AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 19:09, 4 October 2020 (UTC)