Talk:Balrog/Archive 2

Spellcasting worth mentioning?

In the novel of Fellowship, at one point Gandalf tries to magically seal a door against the unknown (at that time) terror, but the door is shattered and he is thrown backwards, by a "counterspell." I think the ability of the balrog to use magic is worth noting in the article, as it gives different impression of what would otherewise just seem to be a big firery monster.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.241.122 (talk) 00:57, 26 December 2006‎ (UTC)

Description

in the article it said that they are human shaped but nether one of the ones shown are like that they look more like bulls then humans, and do all balrogs look the same because there seems to be a lack of spacifc(sp) balrog description. - Rofur august 11 2007 8:02 mount.

This is an article about JRR Tolkien's writings, not that crap Jackson movie. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:36, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

for what its worth in the books they are clearly defined as Maiar that have fallen to Melkor's darkness and been remade as balrogs. assuming they maintain the power they had as the Maiar/wizards then they would in theory be able to cloak their ethereal like forms as suited their needs. the human vs bull demon and wings vs no wings argument would then be a matter of what worked for them at what time. it would also show the true meaning behind the battle on the endless stairs and the real power begin wielded by both sides (last time their masters fought the world was literally reformed. it stands to reason gandalf could do likewise at full power but due to the valar fearing that outcome he would not do it on middle earth.)203.219.85.18 (talk) 11:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Gandalf slain?

"He slew the Balrog but perished himself at the same time — to be sent back as the more powerful Gandalf the White."

This was never explicitly stated in the movie. In fact it gave the opposite impression. Is there any basis for this sentence in the books? I'm loath to look up other online sources because they probably copy wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.246.171 (talk) 20:48, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

There are several hints: (1) "I strayed out of thought and time. Naked I was sent back ... until my task was done." (II. The White Rider); (2) "I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man." (II. King of the Golden Hall); (3) "I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death." (II. The Voice of Saruman). Appendix B says explicitly that "Gandalf returns to life" (fittingly on 14 February, 3019), and Tolkien is quite explicit about this in Letter 156 (p. 201-203) and Letter 181 (p. 237), implying that Gandalf, having succumbed in the fight with the Balrog, was returned to the fray by Eru himself, "until my task was done". -- Elphion (talk) 22:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Who cares what Peter Jackson did? This is about Tolkien, not Jackson's artistic liberties in those terrible movies that don't reflect the text. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh come on, they're not bad movies, they're even decent adaptations. They're just poor substitutes. It's pretty clear that Gandalf dies and is reborn. I would add to the quotes above the line spoken by him when the three walkers confuse him for Saruman: "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been." which hints that his return was made possible by the fact that Saruman had effectively vacated his position in the order by turning from his assignment to his own machinations. Goffmog (talk) 15:03, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Lava demon listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Lava demon. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 04:44, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Citing the Codex Junius and other Reliable Sources

I'm a bit surprised to see anyone objecting to the citation of reliable sources. The discussion of Sigelwara is cited to Tom Shippey, who cited the Codex Junius, so the article cited both those sources. Shippey states that Tolkien at once emended (i.e. changed the reading, conjecturally edited) the word to Sigelhearwan, part of some two years of research to write his pair of articles in Medium Aevum in 1932 and 1934, as cited; he certainly didn't base that extensive work on just looking the word up in a dictionary. I'm equally surprised that the same editor should then see fit to make entirely uncited additions to the article. Accordingly I've reverted the edits. Of course the article can be improved but that isn't the way forward. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:19, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Fionwë/Eönwë in Treason of Isengard quote

An anonymous edit yesterday changed Fionwë to Eonwë (sic) as a typo fix in a quote from The Treason of Isengard. Can someone who has that volume handy double-check this? I seem to recall that Tolkien did not change Fionwë's name to Eönwë until post-LOTR Silmarillion revisions... but that's one volume of the Histories I don't own. Might be worth a note adding a note in the article for clarification. – The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 21:27, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

I think you might be right. Sadly I don't have the books handy as packed up in storage for the moment Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:17, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Eonwë is certainly the more familiar name. Added a brief note. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:03, 27 May 2021 (UTC)