Talk:Bally Sports Detroit/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Matthewedwards :  Chat  17:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I'll be reviewing this article against the Good article criteria. I have already checked it against the "quick fail criteria", and it passes that, so I will be back soon with a complete review. All the best, Matthewedwards :  Chat  17:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   The prose is fairly weak, and needs to be tightened somewhat:

   • "Fox Sports Detroit (stylized as FS DETROIT), is a regional sports network that covers local sports teams in the state of Michigan and an owned and operated affiliate of Fox Sports Net." -- The and here continues the part of the sentence that describes what the station does, not what the station is. It might be better just to make a new sentence out of it.

• Done. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "It is the exclusive home of ..." sounds a bit commercial. How about something like "The network exclusively broadcasts games played by ..." or something?

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "pre-game, post-game and pro sports team magazine shows are aired from their new all digital HD studio in Southfield, Michigan" Who is their? A more grammatically correct term would be "it's" or "the network's". All digital should be hyphenated too.

• Changed.TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "Fox Sports Detroit is also the Michigan affiliate of ESPN Plus' new SEC Network, for college football." -- I think it would be better to remove new from this sentence, and the previous, otherwise the article will date quickly.

• Done. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Paragraph two begins of the History section begins with "However"; however, the word is used here as a conjunction, joining the information in the first paragraph with that in the second. Both paragraphs should be joined, and however should be used as I used it in this sentence.

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "Fox Sports Detroit originally launched as a competitor to the Post-Newsweek Stations' PASS Sports as Fox Sports Detroit (later renamed to just FSN Detroit)." This sentence is a bit heavy. Why not stop at "Pass Sports". Then when the timeline gets to where it changed its name to FSN Detroit, include that bit there.

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "FSN Detroit decided to bid for the rights" how does a network decide to do something? Surely it was the owners, or operating managers, or something?

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Don't WP:OVERLINK common terms such as United States

• Done. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Do articles exist for "play-by-play commentator", "color analyst" and "color commentator"? I have no idea what these are, and a potential reader who clicks on Special:Random may not either

• Yes, wikilinked. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "2007-08" "2007-2008", "2002-2003" -- please follow WP:DASH on using dashes in date ranges, and be consistent in the style you use, either "2007–08" or "2007–2008"

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • What's a "pre-game postgame show"? Also, shouldn't "postgame" be hyphenated like "pre-game" is?

• Fixed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "In March 2008, Fox Sports Detroit signed new long term contracts with the Detroit Pistons, Detroit Red Wings and Detroit Tigers for more games than ever before, becoming the exclusive local home of all 3 teams for the first time." Was one contract signed, or were three contracts signed? "more games than ever before" -- can this be worded more formally?

• They were separate, changed. Also reworded. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Shouldn't it be "the Sam Bernstein Law Firm"? Note the letter case.

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "80% of the shows produced from the studio will be in HD." Six months later, is this still true?

• That's what the press release says. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "The first program from the new studio was the Red Wings season preview special Wingspan." -- What was the airdate for this?

• Added. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "Fox Sports Detroit used its current name when it in launched in 1997, until 2000." -- But isn't the current name "FS Detroit"? I think this needs to be reworded. Perhaps in that whole renaming paragraph, say that from 2008 it uses the station's original name, or something?

• Vocally its Fox Sports Detroit, but its often written FS Detroit. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • "logo bug" -- wikilink?

• Added. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Don't MOS:BOLD all the old station names, names of sports teams, and program titles. Read the rest of that article for how to use italics, too

• Changed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • April in the D reads too much like promotional material for when they have tons and tons of live games, and all that bit about the bands doesn't seem important to the network's history. Like, in 10 years, will that stuff be so important?

• Removed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • The sections about the HD, Plus and On Demand variations are very short. If they were combined into one section, I think they might read much easier.

• Done.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   • References used are all reliable sources, although the article relies on primary sources for some things, leading me to wonder whether the information it is being used to cite is notable.
   • The majority of the article is unsourced. From the History section, three paragraphs are completely unsourced. The other paragraphs make use of just one source for all the information contained. The entire Branding section is completely unsourced. The Local Sports Coverage section, and Original Programming sections are unsourced. The Former Shows subsection is unsourced. The Personalities section is unsourced, which is also a WP:BLP issue. The sections about the HD and On Demand sections rely on one source, and the Plus section has no sources.

• Added source for current on air talent. Impossible to find one for former talent so I removed that section. The sources for a lot of the info in the history and former shows sectiosn are now dead links since the channel switched servers and deleted their old links. I can't find archived copies anywhere, I looked for hours. I removed the branding section

1. • References need to be formatted consistently. Some are attributed to "FoxSportsDetroit.com", others to "Fox Sports Detroit"

2. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   • There is a lot of "history" from 2006 onward, but nothing between when the network began, and 2006. Do you have anything that can be included about this period?

• Sources would be impossible to find since the site changed servers as stated above. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • The bit about Ernie Harwell; is it a particularly important part of the network's history that he filled in for someone else?

• No, I removed it. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. • Is there any information about who the programming controllers are, the station director, etc etc? There's a huge section that lists on-screen people, but nothing about who actually run the network

• Added the VP/GM with a source. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Mostly okay, but phrases such as "legendary Tigers broadcaster" should be cut

• Removed. TomCat4680 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

1. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   looks good

2. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   It might be possible that the infobox template doesn't allow for captions, if it does, however, it would be wise to include one, even if it is simply "Logo of FS Detroit"

3. Overall:

   Some improvements need to be carried out on the referencing and prose. I'll put the nomination on hold for seven days to allow the page's editors to address the issues. Matthewedwards :  Chat  20:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

   Pass/Fail:

Good work so far on the changes. I think some have made a definite improvement. You know, some of those sections that you removed could have just been <!-- comment out --> so that a reader couldn't see them but an editor would, and might be inspired to find sources. Otherwise, you can put them on the talk page until references are found.

• There's still a few things I'm having issues with. The first paragraph says that plans were made to launch in 1997, but that changed when TV rights were up for grabs for two local teams. So it makes it sound like it was going to launch in 97, but it didn't, but you don't say when it did launch. (The infobox says it did launch in 97, though) I've read a few related articles, including PASS Sports, Fox Sports Net, News Corporation, and Prime Network and I understand better now how the FS Detroit network came about. As a result, I've written two paragraphs which you might consider using to explain the background clearer.

Fox Sports Detroit can trace its origins back to 1996, when News Corporation purchased 50% of the Prime Network, a group of regional sports networks owned by Liberty Media, and immediately renamed them "Fox Sports Net". News Corporation did not own a network in Michigan as the Detroit-based Pro-Am Sports System (PASS Sports), owned by Post-Newsweek Stations was the local affiliate station of Prime Network. News Corp. announced plans to launch an owned-and-operated station in Michigan by 1998, and made a surprise bid for, and won, the television broadcast rights to the games of National Basketball Association team Detroit Pistons. When PASS Sports' broadcasting rights of games featuring Detroit Red Wings of the National Hockey League and the Major League Baseball's Detroit Tigers were due to be renewed, Fox Sports Net made a bid for the contracts and won them both. The launch date for Fox Sports Detroit was brought forward in time for the beginning of the 1997–98 NHL season and 1998 MLB season, and it began broadcasting on September 17, 1997. Post-Newsweek concluded its coverage area was not big enough to support two RSNs and sold the remainder of its Tigers and Pistons contracts, and the contract of sportscaster John Keating, to FSN Detroit. Post-Newsweek closed PASS Sports on October 31, 1997, leaving Fox Sports Detroit as the sole RSN in Michigan.

Of course, that would all need sourcing (none of the articles I went to had sources on the subject), and you can choose to use some of it, or none at all.

• • I like your prose, I added it. The FSND/PASS "feud" was explained in the NY Times article from 97 that I added. TomCat4680 (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

• The Exit from Seattle studios section consists of one para-sentence. It should either be expanded, or merged into a different section. The next two sub-sections are very long in name, and I found it odd how the second and fourth sub-sections were separated by the third. Perhaps have a "Studio relocation" sub-section instead and merge the two?

• • I merged the sentence and retitled the lengthy section. TomCat4680 (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

• If you then put the sub-section about exclusive broadcast rights at the bottom of the History section, it will segue nicely into the next section about Local sports coverage. Also, I noticed that you said you'd addressed the "Fox Sports Detroit signed a new long term contract with the Detroit Pistons, Detroit Red Wings and Detroit Tigers" sentence, but it still appears that it was one contract, rather than different. Just remove the "a", and add an "s" to "contract".
• "becoming the exclusive local home of all 3 teams for the first time." -- Numbers under 10 should be written as words.

• • I rearranged it. TomCat4680 (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

• Fox Sports Net says that the station also shows "Detroit Shock (WNBA) games, and local coverage of the Big Ten, Horizon League, Summit League, CCHA and the MAC athletic conferences, as well as the MHSAA." but there is no mention of most of these in this article. While we can't use other WP articles as references, if it's right, it means this article is incomplete.

• • The info about high school and college coverage is in the local sports section. The rest is outdated: the Shock has moved to Tulsa and Big Ten (games) are now on Big Ten Network.

• Make sure your references come immediately after punctuation, rather than after a space.

• • Done. TomCat4680 (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Good luck, Matthewedwards :  Chat  06:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, so I've left this alone for a couple of days, but I think now that it meets WP:GA?, so I will list it at WP:GA. Well done. Matthewedwards :  Chat  21:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Pass/Fail: