Talk:Babymetal/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Awards & Nominations section

Is the text in the awards and nominations section really necessary? It really only repeats some of the stuff you see down in the info box.ReDead (talk) 23:20, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The text is what makes an article encyclopedic. Wkipedia is not a storage place for internal wikilinks, therefore the text has its place and must be there. 93.133.6.131 (talk) 12:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Idol is both a genre and a description of people within that genre

Idol is a genre (a classification of music). This is what the sources report. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. It is interesting to observe that those Wikipedia editors who keep on deleting the word "idol" from the genre section, are people from non-Asian countries. In Japan, the second largest music industry of the world, Idol is a musical genre. The content of Wikipedia articles "is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors".. There are loads of published information from reliable sources which clearly categorize the word idol as a genre. Please note, that idol refers to both a genre and to the people practising that genre. In addition to this, most reliable sources write about Babymetal being part of the idol genre (e.g. check this latest article defining Babymetal to be "a union of Japanese idol music and thundering heavy metal"). Because of Wikipedia's core content policy of Verifiability the word idol will remain in the genre section of the infobox. Wikipedia is not about what YOU think or what YOU are used to. It's about Verifiability. Thank you. 93.135.225.239 (talk) 10:45, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it seems well-sourced in the article's lead. The sources clearly call them a "metal idol band", and it shouldn't be removed. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:05, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I support the statement. I can just add that when talking about idol music as a genre, the Japanese would probably say "Idol song". ← See Google Books search results. --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:58, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Detroit Incident on May 11 2016? Source?

I was at the show and that incident as described didn't happen, to my knowledge. We watched the whole thing from the balcony and do not recall anyone rushing onto the stage at any point, let alone 10 stagehands subduing the guy. Is there any source for this? 162.198.2.1 (talk) 03:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

This is just your typical Wiki vandalism. --Voyager (talk) 07:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Any word on critical reception?

Is there any word on critical reception on the girls, their band, the Music, Text, Videos, Live Shows? For example "Ijime, Dame, Zettai" probably did not go unnoticed and my guess is, it received quite some acclaim. On the other hand we see the typical profiteering in the idol-industry, like the abundance of only slightly different "limited editions" to make the fans buy the same stuff over and over again. Any word on that? ––104.243.243.141 (talk) 14:40, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Kawaii Metal

Has Kawaii Metal gained enough notability yet to have its own page? Babymetal isn't the only band playing the style and a few pages (almost) have links to it (Ladybaby and Dazzle Vision specifically). Issan Sumisu (talk) 18:34, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

@Issan Sumisu: Just create it, honey. Nobody is going to punish you for it. -- 2804:14C:B1:84C8:851F:6065:95FA:77E2 (talk) 22:09, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Babymetal name pronounce

I think you should add the right pronounce of the name Babymetal. Watch this, at 2,06 _DaftRose (talk) 01:26, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

• Thanks. I didn't know it was so important... :) I think this information should be included in the article somehow. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:35, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

You're very welcome :) Yes, I totally agree with you. It's really important. I would do it but I'm not fluent in english, so.. _DaftRose (talk) 02:08, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Done, please check. --PetéWarrior 04:56, 10 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petewarrior (talk • contribs)

Death metal

I know it's sourced but if we can reach a consensus on removing death metal then we can because, alternative metal and power metal can be argued, but I can see no argument at all for death metal legitimately being one of their genres. Issan Sumisu (talk) 11:42, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

• No, the genre is sourced. And I can easily find many more sources. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:23, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
• [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:43, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

The point I made was that I know it's sourced but I'm sure we all know that's not accurate and we can remove it if we reach consensus. Issan Sumisu (talk) 14:29, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

The Noisey/Vice source[6] only says that the debut single is a mix of J-pop and death metal, not that the band is death metal. The Consequence of Sound source[7] describes some death metal elements used by the band. But Hard Rock magazine in Hungary[8] definitely says the band is a mix of J-pop and death metal, and the Guardian source[9] says the band is a mix of teen pop and death metal, also a mix of J-pop and thrash metal, though the writer struggles to say that the pop portion is stronger. The South China Morning Post source[10] says the band is a mix of teen-idol pop and death metal. So I support listing the death metal genre in the infobox. It's enough for me that these reviewers describe the connection. Binksternet (talk) 15:21, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

"Associated Acts" in Infobox

I could make this change myself but someone will probably revert it without discussion. See Template:Infobox musical artist, section 2.25, on the Associated Acts field. That field is for other acts with the same members, spin-offs, etc. so Sakura Gakuin and Karen Girl's definitely apply. However, that field should not include DragonForce and Rob Halford. The Template says that the Associated Acts field should NOT be used for "One-time collaboration for a single song" or "Groups that have played or toured together as separate acts." Babymetal's collaborations with DragonForce and Rob Halford can be (and already are) discussed in the History section and do not belong in the Associated Acts field. If there are no comments within a few days I will make the change myself, or someone else can do it. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

• I agree. You are welcome to remove DragonForce and Rob Halford. --Moscow Connection (talk) 15:14, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Babymetal userbox

This user is a fan of
BABYMETAL. Kitsune up!

Not sure if this is the right place to plug this, but if anyone's interested, I made a Userbox for Babymetal fans. Just put the line {{User:Petewarrior/Userboxes/Babymetal}} on your user page. PetéWarrior 08:35, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Where is YUIMETAL?

This [11] is a misinterpretation of the article being referenced. --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:05, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

By the way, I've been reading the BABYMETAL subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/BABYMETAL/) for several days now. Most people there are simply in denial. --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:17, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

It's not at all, everything said in that edit is confirmed in the article "a representative from 5B Management confirmed that "Yuimetal remains a member of the band, but she is not on this current U.S. tour. There is a new narrative for the future of the band which is currently evolving. The storyline has changed. This was the basis of the ‘Metal Resistance Episode 7: The Revelation’ video." Issan Sumisu (talk) 21:20, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't say "simply wasn't appearing on the U.S. leg of the tour". The reply may well mean "the whole tour". And technically, it doesn't say Yuimetal will ever return. And, by the way, it may not be an official statement, it is simply a reply by an unnamed representative of an American company who may not know all the details about Yui's situation and Kobametal's intentions. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:04, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

The idea behind the band

Hi everyone. For years now I've been wanting to add back some details of the band's formation removed by Drmies back in 2016 (in these edits: [12], [13]), but I don't know when I will get to it. (Yes, it has been over two years and I still remember about it. Cause I think the article lost some essential information.)

Would someone please be so kind and rewrite the removed parts in a more encyclopedic fashion and add them back? Cause I really don't know when I will be able to get to this myself. --Moscow Connection (talk) 09:59, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

What references are we allowed to use? Are Metal Hammer and Blabbermouth really unreliable sources? They seem to be reliable niche publications. PetéWarrior 10:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Metal Hammer and Blabbermouth are reliable, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Sources.
The parts that were removed were sourced from Oricon News, MTV81, Nikkei Trendy, The Village Voice and an interview for Razor TV, which are all reliable media outlets (even if they aren't mentioned on the "WikiProject Albums/Sources" page). --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:10, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Well, here's my take. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babymetal&diff=prev&oldid=839756149 Tried to fit everything into two sentences to keep it from being too fanboyish. PetéWarrior 13:04, 5 May 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petewarrior (talk • contribs)

Thank you.
I think what's important is that Kobametal didn't simply decide to start a band and then found Suzuka, but he decided to form a group around Suzuka. I mean he saw her performance(s) with her former group, was impressed with her (her vocals and her stage presence) and he decided to start some group with her as the main vocalist. But he at first didn't know what the group should be like. And then he thought that the other members of the group should contrast Suzuka and took two 10-year old girls that were supposed to dance around her like angels.
It would be nice if you could tell this story in the article. The sources were there, I can add them back but I don't know how to make this story short and encyclopedic. (The story would explain the [early] image of the group very well. Cause, as you surely know, Yui and Moa just danced and shouted. And they are still officially credited as "scream, dance", not as "vocals": [14]). --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

• Metal Hammer and Blabbermouth are to be treated with caution. Note that Moscow talks about reliability, but it's not just reliability that's at stake here--it's also noteworthiness and content. If something is published on Blabbermouth it's not therefore worth repeating in our articles. And it's not just that material that finds its way into these articles. So in this new edit by Petewarrior we now have such thoroughly unencyclopedic phrasing like "According to Kobametal, Yuimetal and Moametal were added to complement Su-metal's overwhelming presence with their then small, angel-like stature", which is just crap--it's not a direct quote, it's just a paraphrase into POV terminology, and it's from the Babymetal.net site, which is either a fan page or a band page, take your pick. And if editors are adding that kind of tripe, it's no surprise we have a fan article on a minor band that has managed to put out two albums in eight years, an article that takes up 90k. That K-pop editors latch on to this with a K-pop set of mind is not surprising. Drmies (talk) 17:06, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree about Blabbermouth, it should be treated with caution. But the same can be said for any media outlet. And I remember I was very suprised a few years ago when I saw an exact quote from me in a Metal Hammer article. (A quote from the German Wikipedia article on Babymetal. The quote was short, though.)
I think this is the direct quote from Nikkei Trendy I originally used:

KOBAMETAL：BABYMETALは、さくら学院の重音部という位置付けだが、企画自体はメインボーカルのSU-METAL（中元すず香）が所属していた「可憐Girls」が09年に解散となった辺りから構想していた。

SU-METALを中心としてメンバーを探したが、彼女が独特な存在感を持っているので、まったく別のキャラクターを加えるのがいいのではという結論に至った。そこで、SU-METALの周りを天使のような子たちが踊っているのはどうだろうと、YUIMETAL（水野由結）とMOAMETAL（菊地最愛）に参加してもらうことになった。

— [15].

Google Translate works more or less okay. --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:50, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

It should be noted that "angel-like" is a direct literal translation of the direct quote above. With each word roughly glossed to English, the phrase SU-METALの周りを天使のような子たちが踊っている comes out to: SU-METALの周りを (in Su-Metal's vicinity) 天使のような (similar to angel) 子たち (children) が踊っている (are dancing). The "overwhelming presence" is probably better translated as "peculiar" or "unique" in the direct quote (this one: 彼女が独特な存在感を持っている; rough literal translation: She holds a peculiar/unique presence). I have no other stake in this discussion (since I've not really edited the article lately and I only lightly read the discussion), but I wanted to clarify that point. (Also, from memory: I believe .jp is the Japanese official site, .com is the US official site, and .net is a fansite.) - Purplewowies (talk) 18:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that's correct. According to this interview, Koba wanted to start Babymetal before he found Suzuka, not the other way around:

"I wanted to produce from scratch, find the talented, train and promote them. . . . Then I started to find someone" (emphasis added). Nabuking (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

• He doesn't say he "wanted to start Babymetal", he wanted to start some band. Actually, he doesn't even say he wanted to start a heavy metal band and he talks about a "next Perfume" (Perfume is not metal). But maybe it was Suzuka herself who applied for his audition. But still, he almost certainly had seen her before cause he says he searched at Amuse where he worked, and Karen Girl's were an Amuse act. --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:25, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
• And the problem is that Koba is very vague in that interview you found. He doesn't even say which future member applied. While in the interview that is currently used in the article he says he formed the group around Suzuka. Who knows, maybe she didn't actually apply, but he saw her at some concert/recital.
  What we can correct now is that he didn't necessarily see Suzuka with Karen Girl's. In the Nikkei Trendy interview he simply says that he started thinking about forming a band with Suzuka ever since Karen Girl's dissolved. (Not quite, but something like this.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:42, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Granted, the translation of that interview is poor. But that quote is Koba's response when asked how he "began Babymetal." As you point out, the Nikkei Trendy interview only says Koba had the idea for Babymetal around the time Karen Girl's disbanded [16]. So, although Koba created aspects of Babymetal around Suzuka, like adding Yui and Moa for contrast, she wasn't the initial inspiration for the band, but someone who fit his ideas for the project. At least according to available sources. Nabuking (talk) 18:13, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• He "began Babymetal," but at the moment when he began it, it didn't have a name yet.
  Actually, look: [17]. No "BABYMETAL", just "重音部".
  As far as I can tell from the interview you've found, Koba wanted to create some band. He worked at Amuse, so that was where he looked for band members. He specialized in visual kei and hardcore, so he most probably wanted to create a heavy band, but not necessarily. At first he searched among adults, then he heard there were great kids (a great kid?) in the kids' department. So he went to some kids' recitals. What happened next can't be deduced from those two interviews. But at some point Koba started thinking about forming a band with Suzuka on vocals. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:32, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Suzuka was in Sakura Gakuin from the very time of its formation in April 2010. According to the Nikkei Trendy interview, Koba had been thinking of forming a band around her ever since Karen Girl's were dissolved. They were dissolved in 2009. So most probably (almost certainly) he had noticed her before Sakura Gakuin was formed.
  Yui and Moa joined Sakura Gakuin together in August 2010. Twinklestars were formed in October, and the so-called Heavy Music Club in November.
  And again... We do not know when exactly Koba held his auditions, but it is very unlikely that either Moa or Yui showed up alone. So we can deduce that the member who came to one of Koba's auditions was Suzuka. --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:33, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Babymetal discography

• Support split - Discography section is over 15kb, the article is over 100kB, and the former should be split to a new article entitled Babymetal discography. Thoughts? --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:06, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2019 - Main group photo

There was an updated photo of the band posted earlier in the week as the page’s main image. Someone came back and replaced the new image with a much more outdated image. Please change the main image BACK to the newer updated image which more accurately reflects the current state of the band. Tgmbasic (talk) 17:36, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done - The image that was removed has had its claim of fair use disputed (it's very hard to use a nonfree image of living persons on Wikipedia) and may soon be deleted if a legitimate reason (in line with policy, not preference) to keep it is not asserted. It can't be added back because it might not be legal to use it. - Purplewowies (talk) 17:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2019

The second unparenthesized word is a grammar error, it should be *is* a Japanese kawaii metal band and not *are*. 74.110.128.228 (talk) 02:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

This is possibly an WP:ENGVAR issue. I think the current wording tends to be more in line with British English, while in American English, it's incorrect. It would be nice to hear from a British speaker on this one. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 02:24, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Both would be acceptable in British English (both sound acceptable). Based on other band articles (The Beatles, AC/DC, Coldplay to name a few), it should be 'are' instead of 'is' so I think this article should stay the way it is. Properly speaking, you're referring to the plural band members who perform under a name, so you should refer to the band as 'are', but that is just my opinion. Willbb234 (talk) 10:18, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Can someone upload a new image with their current appearance and without Yui?

I tried to submit before but it wasn't accepted so I wonder if someone can help Boyohboy231 (talk) 07:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)Boyohboy231

@Boyohboy231: I just added a newer picture. There are a lot of newer pictures on Wikipedia commons. Bowling is life (talk) 10:21, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

@Bowling is life: I meant for the 2019 costumes. I could add them but they aren't my images so at the end, I need someone who actually owned the photos like the guy from 2018. (talk)

I don't think the infobox image has to be the absolute newest costumes, though it being updated to not include Yui was useful on a level (I considered doing it a few months ago but didn't love the image that's currently the infobox image since it only had one member (Moa) in focus, Suzuka in the background, and a backup dancer on the side without it being completely clear they're a backup dancer (that is, the old infobox image made it clear who the frontmen were)). Do you have a good rationale for it needing to be the updated costumes? - Purplewowies (talk) 03:39, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

I have expanded the caption under the current photo to show who's who, but it could be improved a little more if anyone knows that backup dancer's name. Also, I agree that the infobox photo should not include Yui because she is no longer in the group (she can be pictured elsewhere), but the infobox photo does not need to be super-recent. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 19:19, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

FYI: Babymetal Userbox

FYI: For anyone who frequently updates the Babymetal article, Petewarrior created a userbox that you can place on your personal page. See User:Petewarrior/Userboxes/Babymetal. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 17:14, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Inclusion of New Kami Members

It seems that Babymetal is using a different set of musicians in the Kami Band for their US Tour.

As they've performed the first three shows of this tour, I think it's safe to say they will be here for at least the majority of the tour.

I added these people to the "Kami Band" section as a quick revision, but my revision was undone.

It's very difficult to get official sources on who these members are, as the band says they are kami sent down by the Fox God (hence the name Kami Band) and it's part of the agreement that the musicians don't talk about it, but they have been identified by fans. Source: https://www.babymetalnews.com/2019/09/06/the-4-new-kami-band-members-identities-have-been-discovered/

I didn't include sources in my edit as I did it quite quickly (my bad), but now thought I would ask the question as to how we should go about this.

If they are only for this tour, should they be included in the main Kami Band section, which consists of people who have been on numerous tours and shows? If they are included in the Other Musicians section it seems like they arent current, which they are. How should we include them? Thegreentimtam (talk) 03:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

I'd say I agree with the revision for the time being, three shows is a bit little to add them straight away, especially without any valid sources. But I'd like to go one further and say the entire Members section needs a thorough cleanup. The entire "Other musicians" section is a bit superfluous in my opinion. Most of the people in there only played with the group for a single year, most of them were never part of the Kami band (if they played on the albums they should be listed as Personnel on the album's article) and quite a few also lack citations. I say that entire section (including the Backup dancers and Timeline) can easily go, that way the Members section is returned to being mostly about the people with long term affiliations with the group. DragonFury (talk) 07:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

None of those musicians were in studio - they are all "Kami Band". Although I question the inclusion of Hidefumi Usami (who I would consider part of the sound/tech crew) and Shuki Maeta (who played at a shareholders meeting, not a public performance).

Also worth noting that none of the citations for the Kami Band members at the moment are very concrete, even the long term members. A couple of cryptic tweets, and a Huffington Post article that talks about the writers "ideal lineup" for the band...

I disagree about removing the "Other Musicians" section. I think its a good reference, and is consistent with other pages, which typically have "Current Members", "Past Members", "Current Touring musicians" and "Former Touring musicians" sections. I see the Babymetal sections as equivalent (which is why I originally put the US Touring Musicians in the Kami Band section - they are "Current Touring musicians"). Backup dancers are just as important to Babymetal shows as touring musicians, so I think their inclusion is warranted as well. Thegreentimtam (talk) 03:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

I was also wondering about this. I have no strong opinion on the "Other Musicians" section as discussed above, but I was wondering in particular about verification for the musicians on the Fall 2019 tour. The usual Kami Band members, like Boh and Ohmura etc., did not make the trip for the US tour due to other commitments, and the current guys are definitely new. Babymetal fans have theorized that the current touring band is Chris Kelly, CJ Masciantonio, Clint Tustin, and Anthony Barone, but to my knowledge this is an educated guess with no confirmation. So if these guys are to be listed in the article, there should at least be a "Citation Needed" tag. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:02, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Reception Section

I was considering adding a reception section covering how the media and people have covered Babymetal within and outside of Japan. I would probably rework a chunk of the Legacy section into this, any thoughts? I already have a dozen or so sources to cover this.KittehWarlord (talk) 21:03, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Metal band versus idol groups

Despite BM's origins being the idol industry, they are currently not an idol group. They perform at metal and rock festivals, they get interviewed by magazines focusing on the metal genre, they cater almost exclusively to a metal audience, and their albums are included in rock/metal charts. The openers for their shows both domestically and internationally are all from the rock or metal genre. Conversely, they have almost no interaction with the Japanese idol industry anymore. And even if Japan still considers them an idol group, the band themselves operates globally and they are considered a metal band by virtually every major media outlet outside of Japan. DragonFury (talk) 11:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Binksternet (talk) 14:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Look at your wester deffinition and differences between a boys/girls band and a rock/metal band. Read it and think for yourself if you can. You don't like the idol group terminollogy,fine then use your own labels for them:girls band!

"They’re usually auditioned rather than generated organically. Boy/Girl Bands often come about because a producer or executive needs a boy/girl band so they hold auditions for young artists who are chosen on their looks as much as their musical ability.

They have no control over their own musical direction. Their music is written by professional songwriters, the instruments are played by sessions musicians and producers make all the decisions.

They have stylists and choreographers who control their look and image.

A band like Metallica doesn’t fulfill those criteria . They write their own music and control their production and image. They were formed by people who wanted to play together and then found a manager rather than the other way around." Errorys123 (talk) 16:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

We are not here to try and decide for ourselves by evaluating their music and style. Instead, we are here to tell the reader a summary of what has been published about the band. Take a look at the published material: you will see things such as Chicago Tribune's "Everything about Babymetal is metal" and Louder Sound's description of kawai metal evolving to "global metal" with a bit of Japanese idol in the management style. There's also Kerrang's feature that describes a wider range of influences added to the metal foundation. Interview magazine expresses a different take, calling them "a hard rock group" that mixes other elements. So don't remove metal and rock genres just because you don't like them. Binksternet (talk) 17:31, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

If you feel strongly about this, then you should be able to gather reliable sources that support your belief and present it here for everyone to consider. Every sentence in this article is supported by one or more reliable references, which are listed at the bottom of the page (there are 212 when I'm writing this). What we do here is not writing based on our "opinion", but gathering reliable sources and summarizing them, and even any disagreements should be based on existing sources. PetéWarrior (talk) 22:43, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't think they can be called an "idol group" even in Japan. I think they are called an "idol unit". That's what these small subgroups of large idol groups are called. (Yes, I know they aren't a subgroup of Sakura Gakuin anymore. But still, an idol group is typically a large group with many members.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia article earlier today in the course of looking at some other things, and the article there says "metal dance unit", actually. Most places I could find with Babymetal itself providing an English description, the word "band" is used in the English writing, at least. (The Japanese writing for the same information appears to use "artist".) - Purplewowies (talk) 03:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

This is a little WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but I snooped around some J-Pop articles and even some that are firmly idols (even high quality articles) use "band" interchangeably with "group" or "unit".- Purplewowies (talk) 03:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

• Are you talking about the disambiguating words or phrases in parentheses? That's because a few years ago some people on Wikipedia strongly insisted that all band articles be disambiguated using the word "band" and not "group". If they saw an article having "(group)" appended on the end of the title, they renamed it to "(band)". They would insist that these are all called bands in English and it doesn't matter whether the members play instruments or not. (I don't know if those people are still around, cause I'm not currently into Japanese band articles.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:16, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Interestingly, in Kpop articles the exact opposite happened a while back and those use group almost exclusively. Though I don't think this matters for the Babymetal article since almost all sources I see use band exclusively.DragonFury (talk) 13:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
    • Those people renamed K-pop articles too. Probably they aren't around anymore, so their actions were reversed and no one has noticed and/or cared. --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:12, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
    • Now I see what happened: Talk:4L (group)#Requested move 29 November 2018. I didn't know. (I looked at the guideline's page history. Until a few years ago it stated that disambiguation should be done using "(band)". See this version from 2016.
      "I don't think this matters for the Babymetal article". — I agree. --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

No. When I say "interchangeably" I mean in the article text. The example that I feel like I remember doing it most (since I wasn't taking notes) was Momoiro Clover Z but... yeah. (I specifically did not count disambiguation via title for anything.) - Purplewowies (talk) 12:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know how did you even got in the position of tolking about this subject,when obviously, you don't know much obout it,and only accept what fits in your book. Idol groups have from 2 to 100s members,there are even solo idols. Is not a rule about how many members they have to be an idol group. Idol group means that the members just sing and dance,and that is all. The genre of music,the number of members,how they promote ,have nothing to do with this.

From all the idol groups i follow and all the wiki i readed about them,this,the Babymetal one is cringe,subjectiv,full of misliding,own interpretation and have close to zero respect for Japanese culture. Strongwhite (talk) 10:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not a frequent editor of this page and I'm not getting involved in this larger discussion, but I saw you made your account to say this. If you mention some specific segments of the article you consider to be subjective or misleading, we could work to improve them, as Wikipedia has a strong WP:NEUTRALITY policy. I hope this helps in any way, as quickly looking over it I couldn't see any massive problems. Issan Sumisu (talk) 12:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

This isn't really an accusation (if it was, I'd go to SPI), but the writing style on this account (namely the line breaks and comma placement) gives me a touch of wondering if it's sockpuppetry. A more firm declaration which I don't think I need to say out loud: the argument from this person is not based in WP policy/guidelines or reliable sources. - Purplewowies (talk) 02:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Babymetal said at many show "we are metal dance unit " not a band or idol group. Dony176 (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I've been to a fair few BM shows and I've never heard them refer to themselves as such, or even any other description. If you have a legitimate source I'd be happy here it though. DragonFury (talk) 22:14, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2019 and 15 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): KittehWarlord. Peer reviewers: SRAShakur.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Article for The Other One

To my great amazement, nobody had attempted a full article for the new album until I got to it just now. Please see The Other One (Babymetal album) plus a plea for help at that article's Talk page. As of right this minute, the article is in "Start" mode and has the potential to get much bigger. Thanks! ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 21:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)