Talk:Azula/Archive 2

The 2 with azula

• who are those two elder women who talk to azula and guide her kind of in the start of the second season?
• Li and Lo (in the joke videos at comic-con about shipping)

Age

I just removed the reference to Azula being fourteen. I followed the link that was given as a source, but there was no information on any of the characters' ages there. I imagine that it's been changed. I suspect that Azula's age was changed during her character development. The original idea for her character was a younger sister of Zuko's named "Zula" who may have originally been conceived as fourteen. Also, in one of the comics, which I'm told are canon, she refers to Zuko as "little brother." Does anyone know the proper citation format for such a thing? Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

You didn't try very hard because I found it in a few seconds. Derekloffin (talk) 21:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a source for this "Zula" character, it would be a very nice addition to the article. Rau's Speak Page 21:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone quoted it to me. It sounded like it was from an interview with one of the authors.Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Aww... Dammit Darn it. That kind of information always boosts an article... Rau's Speak Page 16:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Well if it turns up again, you can bet it will be here like a shot. No way is that character supposed to be fourteen.Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, according to her character entry on the US Avatar site, under the characters section of the info on the episode "The Avatar State" (you'll have to go to the entry itself; the link won't take you directly to it), Azula is "Zuko's 14-year-old younger sister." The route to the info is actually right there in the article's references. TakaraLioness (talk) 17:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I wrote that. :D Rau's Speak Page 17:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

When I originally clicked on that link, it took me to a page about Avatar. This was my first experience with "go to" instructions, so when I didn't see any "Characters" section, I figured that the page had either been changed since the original poster cited it as a source or put there in error in the first place.

The website says that she's fourteen ...and the comics, which contain outtakes from the series, show her referring to Zuko as her little brother. (Iroh refers to Zuko as sixteen in one of the first-season episodes.) In the series itself, nothing about her age is ever mentioned straight-out. What probably happened is that the character as originally conceived was supposed to be fourteen, but that she was later drawn and implemented as older and no one bothered to tell the website staff. Of course, we would need a source on this--such as a writeup of the interview with the writers--before stating something like that in the article itself. In the meantime, though, I would not be adverse to a section mentioning that there is conflicting information about Azula's age.Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, what probably happened was that the comic's editor missed that mention. Which comic was it that said this? Also, Azula is definitely Zuko's little sister, seeing as she was practically a toddler during Zuko's Agni Kai. Rau's Speak Page 19:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll watch the AK scene again to refresh my memory, but she didn't look younger than he was to me. As for comics, it was the second one. What is clear here is that either the website or the comic is in error. As to which one, we can't know with certainty at this point. In my opinion, either a flat-out mention in the series itself or an interview writeup could trump either or both the comic and the website. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I was using toddle as a synonym for her looking extremely young. And as it stands, the website trumps the comic. And the episodes trump the website, although IMO, it supports it. Rau's Speak Page 20:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

"The website trumps the comic." -- According to? Many animated productions have comics as side projects, composed by other writers, but the Avatar comic contains scenes that the original writers scripted for the series itself but had to omit for lack of time or space. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't make them any more canon. Depending on content, it could actually make them less canon. Also, just referring to someone as 'little brother' doesn't mean he actually is her little brother. She is known for teasing him in various ways, and could easily be using it as yet another gap at him. Derekloffin (talk) 20:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The website trumps the comic because it is directly from the copyright owners, where as the comics are from various writers. Rau's Speak Page 20:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

No, that's what I was saying just now: most cartoon-franchise comics are scripted by B-list writers, but to the best of my knowledge, this one isn't. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Who said B-list, I said various. And even if that were the case, everyone makes mistakes. That could be the case here, or it could be like Derek said and just be an insult. Rau's Speak Page 22:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I was the one who said B-list. The assumption is that 1. being written by authors other than the creators and/or standard writers and 2. portraying events outside the main series's continuity are what make a comic less canon. However, neither of those things are true of the Avatar comics. To the best of my knowledge, the comics were scripted by the same writers who script the episodes and the scenes in question, which depict events within the continuity, were originally intended for air. As for her comment, could it be an insult? Sure. But we have no in-world reason to think that it was; we'd have to stretch. When Azula belittles Zuko, she calls him "Zuzu." It's more likely that she was using the accepted understanding of "little brother" and that the comics and website simply contradict each other. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I did some looking around. Someone in a forum said that the creators state Azula and Zuko's ages either on the commentary to the Season I DVD or on its extra disk. She didn't seem to remember which. Does anyone have access to the complete Season I DVD set? We might be able to put this matter to bed. It also sounds like this is where they talk about "Zula" and the origins of the character. A character concept section would raise the tone in any case. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, people can make mistakes, whether this is on the Nick website or on the comic, I don't know. And I don't have them, but I want them bad. If someone could access them, it would put the matter to rest (not just this one, but others as well). But for now, we should go with that can be sourced. Rau's Speak Page 23:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but our problem is that the sources are in conflict. You know, my then-rommate was able to get the DVDs out of the library...Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

But the sources aren't in conflict. With out someone here verifying the commentary on the DVD, or you providing exactly which comic it was, the only source is the website. Everything else is word-of-mouth. Which is certainly not an RS. And I noticed you asked about BOLD, it's a wikipolicy. WP:BOLD. Rau's Speak Page 15:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

By "the sources are in conflict," I am referring to the official webpage, which says that she's fourteen, and the official comics, which say that she's older than Zuko. They can't both be right, so they're in conflict. I already said that it was the second comic; I guess you must have missed it. The second one is the one is subtitled "Enter the Fire Nation." I don't know if they're still available in shops, but there are probably quite a few download sites. [url=http://www.buddytv.com/articles/avatar-the-last-airbender/avatar-magazine-now-available-11207.aspx]Here is a picture of the front cover.[/utl] Would you happen to know the proper format for citing a comic/magazine such as this one as a source? Thanks for telling me about BOLD. I will go and read the page. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

"The second comic" isn't a specification, is it the one from the second volume of season one, the second box set, the second one uploaded to the site? It wasn't exact. That's why I said what I said. And to cite a comic use {{cite comic}}. Although because they are in conflict, neither should be used and the line should probably be removed. Rau's Speak Page 18:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is Azula's age listed as 14 - 17? Each season of the series spanned a season, not a year, the first season is winter, the second is spring and the third is summer. As of the end of the series, only 9 months have passed, not 3 years. As for the older or younger conflict, please, use a bit of common sense, Azula aways belittles people, she called him little brother as a form of insult, she's 14, you people have seen the site, I know you guys need to be accurate and source information properly, but sometimes, this overzealous attitude costs this site information and credibility. 189.60.129.184 (talk) 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

What are you even going on about? That was done in the latest edit to the page. You wanna come here an insult us when the information is actually sourced. Howabout you get off your lazy ass and check the edit history to see if we've even had time to correct it. JEEZ! Rau's Speak Page 18:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

When I left his message, the page showed her age as "14 -17", if that was changed while I was noting this here, I apologized, and it was not my intention to insult, if you read too much emotion in my message, I'm apologize for that as well. And I'm also sorry for not getting off my lazy ass, cause I'm in my final year, with tests every week, and because I rather contribute at Avatar Wikia, which while a fansite, contains much more accurate information than Wikipedia (which has had better Avatar information). 201.53.129.160 (talk) 22:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Azula is younger than Zuko, even though she calls him "Little Zuzu." This isn't making fun of his age, she's probably toying with the idea of a mother figure's term-of-endearment, which Zuko will never recieve because Ursa was banished. Also, Zuko was heir to the thrown before Azula. This may be because he is a boy, but somewhere we should be able to find that Azula is the younger sister. I think she went from 14 to 15 in the nine months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.242.114.141 (talk) 23:20, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Azula's Eyes--Time to Find a Source?

Zuko's are clearly yellow, but in Azula's closeups, her eyes just look medium or light brown. Is there any source that comes out and says what color they are? Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

No RS would go into that kind of thing, it's trivial. The same for all physical traits, as they stand, they are OR. Open to interpretation, which is obviously displayed by you thinking one thing, and us another. I don't even see why there are parameters for character traits. The infobox should be out-of-universe. There should only be real-world info. Rau's Speak Page 20:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Then perhaps we should remove the line from the infobox altogether. After all, readers can just look at the picture and see what color her eyes are. It's much easier to do that in drawings than it is in real life. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but that is neither here nor there. This is about her eye color. Rau's Speak Page 20:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I meant that we should consider removing the line that lists Azula's eye color from the infobox. Like you said, it's not a very important detail, and, like I said, her picture is right there and shows her eyes just fine. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh it's possible. Simply leave the line blank. But if you want the parameter gone, that's gonna require consensus. No way in hell will I do that under BOLDs justification. Rau's Speak Page 22:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Er, "blood-oxygen-level-dependant"? Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

On the subject of her actual eye color, I think the lighting in the picture of her in the article just makes it look darker than it is. If you look at her eyes in this shot, you can see that they're not dark brown at all--they're a golden color. But as for removing the whole eye color line together, I don't have a problem with it. TakaraLioness (talk) 23:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I removed it. Because there will always be conflicting opinions, whether with someone present, or someone new. Rau's Speak Page 23:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Her eye color is amber. Most people from the Fire Nation have amber eyes. Just look on the Avatar Wikipedia. --2.246.12.138 (talk) 19:26, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Hair

Have you ever noticed that her hair is relatively short in the bun, but when she ahs in in a ponytail or the bun is loose, it is way too long to fit in that little bun. Mew Mitsuki (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering that. She could tuck it in. Rau's Speak Page 17:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

she's just magical, and crazy.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Ninja Assasin (talk • contribs) 03:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

so truth she scares me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.226.82.201 (talk) 16:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Azula's Mental health: source

In the section about Azula being sent to a mental health hospital, there's only a mention of the source (nick.com's Avatar page). I feel that a link to this reference needs to be put in right afterwards. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure as to how it's done. (I still don't know very much about Wiki editing.)--Freespirit1981 (talk) 00:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

In regards to this topic, I have noticed a number of times that people keep deleting the information from Nick.com stating that Azula was sent to a mental asylum. This is relevant data, the info on Nick is canonical. Leave it alone!!71.192.134.75 (talk) 00:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

If you have the source info, just post a description of how to get to it here. We can figure out how to reference it properly. Derekloffin (talk) 01:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Derek, I've got the link: [[1]].You'll need to go to the last episode (Sozin's Comet parts 3 & 4 are listed under 320), click on characters, and then Azula's face. The information is at the end. :)--Freespirit1981 (talk) 02:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The information is not on the character's info page. [[2]] The page you link to is broken, the episodes you mention are not there. Is this some sort of elaborate hoax? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.8.78.66 (talk) 01:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks like the internet struck again and changed things under our feet. It isn't a hoax (I did personally see said info), although with the link being dead, and thus the associated info now effectively gone, not sure how to address the situation. Derekloffin (talk) 01:26, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I've managed to put the link in, but I need more help listing it as a resource. I've also reworded that particular sentence, as it was too close to the nick.com wording. --Freespirit1981 (talk) 20:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

No picture of Azula and her blue flames?

Since Azula was basically the only one that shot blue fire, should we have a picture of this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.2.60.95 (talk) 00:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

No, not really. Pretty trivial. No rhyme or reason was given for it. If it was important to the character, I'd say yes, but it's not, so I say no. *SIGN* 02:07, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there any source indicating why her flames are blue? It can't be simply an issue of power because other more powerful characters (Ozai if nothing else) aren't blue. Some possible explanations: Female versus male firebending? (Do we ever see another woman firebend? In the Boiling Rock, perhaps?). Source of bending? (Not anger like Zuko, not dragon-inspired understanding like Iroh and "reformed" Zuko?) I would theorize that her source of bending is fear - she revolves around ruling people by fear, because she is driven by guilt and fear underneath? It seems non-trivial because she is the only blue-flame bender, and because there's some attention paid to the source of bending power (old Zuko / reformed Zuko). Gowenfawr (talk) 22:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

All of that would be original research, as there is no source to explain why. If you want, try asking at http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/ or at the Avatar Wiki. NuclearWarfare _(Talk) 23:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

It's not a male/female thing, she was shown bending regular fire in Zuko Alone flashbacks, dunno about the rest. 189.4.250.18 (talk) 23:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

--I'm pretty sure I saw Ozai do the same blue-fire rockety propulsion trick when he fought Aang, just sayin'battoubro (Battoumaru): Envoy of The Future Hokage RPG. (talk) 05:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Ozai did do the rocket propulsion against Aang, but other than the boost from Sozin's Comet, his flames were normal, regular red/yellow fire. Ozai has never used blue fire, however, he has used lightning, and better than Azula. 189.4.250.18 (talk) 23:15, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree with you Rau J. They basically define her. Tons of fans recognize this as an extremely important trait. Plus, she's the only Firebender ever seen to bend blue fire. That's pretty important. 75.97.199.249 (talk) 20:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, Azul in Spanish is blue, and if her name is Azula, wouldn't that be a good reason for her to have blue fire? Granted, I have no basis for this, but it's something simple that makes some kind of sense. Hires an editor (talk) 21:37, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

While it might or might not be important to her character (I would say not seeing as no character mentions it or situation makes the color of her flame important), it really doesn't meet the standard here for needing a picture, which it improves understanding of the topic over a simple description. Now, perhaps you could argue better than a different general character pic with blue flame shown as well might be better to illustrate the character. That I might go for if a good one can be found. Derekloffin (talk) 23:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)