Talk:Australian Stock Horse

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As user and previously a breeder of ASH I would like to see some of the information listed below incorporated into the article. The early ASH sires were descendants of the early horses mentioned in the article. The early members of the ASH Society took great pride and care in the breeding and selection of their ASH. I have also included a little on the type of horse that the Ash is as requested in a query. All help will be appreciated TIA

I will let you make a couple tweaks of the material yourself before I dive in, but to be consistent with other breed articles, here are some thoughts:

1. Avoid "laundry lists" of horses or breeders like the plague, unless there are very, very few (as in the Thoroughbred or the Morgan). IMHO, even the American Quarter Horse article has too many. Once you start, edit wars can commence if someone thinks their favorite piece of crap with balls should be on the list...OMG...
2. Any horses mentioned at all should be long dead and of almost universal recognition. (Hambletonian for the Standardbred, for example)
3. Be sure to say AUSTRALIAN Stock Horse, as "stock horse" is a generic term for cow horses over in the USA and confusion is apt to result
4. Start adding wikilinks as you write. If you think there is (or should be) an article about something, put in a wikilink. That's one area where I can proof...I can help do any piped links, etc...I did a couple for you so you can see what I mean.
5. When possible, add footnotes to sources, sooner or later we have to, anyway. I like this format best: <ref>[http://www.url.com Author last name, first name. "Name of web page" and date accessed or "full bibliograpnical info" on article, ''publication'' date of article and if accessed online, date accessed]</ref> For some source you will use multiple times, the first time go <ref name="Name">[citation, URL or whatever]</ref> and then the subsequent times it is used, do <ref name="Name"/> See the help link and info on citing sources for more guidelines.
6. For books like below, that you might use multiple times, see Horses in the Middle Ages for a good way to reference the book and individual page numbers. I confess to being lazy about books and tend to just do "ref name" but I only reference books I actually own, so if challenged for page numbers, I can dig them up later...but, I AM still bad...don't be like me...
7. Breed characteristics should emphasize how this breed is distinguished from other breeds and though breed standard from a registry is the place to begin, beware of peacock words. "Kind" eye is an example--no breed wants a "mean" eye...(grin) For example, in the Friesian horse article, I threw out "beautiful flowing mane" and I think it now just says "long mane." Also be careful about over-emphasis on traits common to all riding horses...For example, ALL horses should have a well-laid back shoulder, no breed says a straight shoulder is a good thing! (grin) Ditto for tied-in bone, well-rounded hindquarters, etc. (Sometimes breed standards are a dead giveaway to the breed's biggest problems...for example, miniature horse standards say that dwarfism is penalized, hmmm...minis have problems with dwarfism, eh?)(grin)
8. I like the bit on how the ASH differs from the Waler, that is important, there was a merge proposal on the two articles for awhile, the articles make them sound so similar.

Hope this helps! Once the individual paragraphs are sorted out, we can plug them into the main article where they best fit. I will go look over the outline that is there and see if we need to add more subheadings Montanabw^(talk) 22:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

"In June 1971 over 100 campdrafters and horse breeders met in Tamworth with plans to form a society to recognize an Australian breed of horse. Many of these people bred stock horses using the noted stock horse bloodlines of Radium, Bobbie Bruce, along with some Arabians and Thoroughbreds. Since then Rivoli Ray, Blue Moon Mystic, Eliotts Creek Cadet, Warrenbri Romeo and some Quarter Horseshave also had a large influence on the breed.

Initially horses were inspected by three classifiers who assessed horses for conformation, breeding and ability and accepted them for inclusion in the Stud Book or appendix, or rejected them. All colours were acceptable as were a few ponies of outstanding merit.

The ideal Stock Horse should have a finely cut expressive head with large kind eye and a broad forehead. The neck is long, arched, with head well set on. The wither should be well defined. The shoulder - long, lean and well sloped. Front legs - well set to the shoulder, straight and not tied in at the elbow or below the knee. Pasterns of medium length and set at a 45º angle. A deep chest and well-sprung ribs to enable the saddle to sit well. The back is strong and broad without too much length. The loins - strong and broad. The hind quarters are strong and powerful, well-muscled and nicely-rounded. Hind legs and hocks should fall in a perpendicular line from the point of the buttock to the ground. The feet are hard and not turned or clubbed. The horse will be sound, agile and quick moving with a good surefooted walk. It will have a calm, responsive temperament during a workout. The horse will appear well proportioned in all respects according to its size.

The Australian Stock Horse differs from the Walers that were exported to fight overseas in that it is not as big. The Walers had to carry a rider, their rifle and a full pack. Some of the heavier horses were also required pull water carts and carriages. Apart from colour, size and weight, many of the characteristics of those horses remain with the stock horses of today.

The Australian Stock Horse's versatility allows it to excel at many equestrian sports including camp drafting, polocrosse, polo, working, led and ridden classes, showjumping, hacking, sporting events, Pony Club, dressage, eventing, endurance and stockman challenges.

Ref.: "Australian Stock Horse - Stallion Pedigree Book" Vol. 1 by Peter Gower

"The Horse that Calls Australia Home" by Joan Starr"

Cgoodwin 07:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

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Thank you for your comments on the above.

Firstly the query about the term "outback", which in Australia generally is taken to mean at least the drier arid areas west of the Darling River or the western states.

The ASH Society was founded partly as a response to the importation of Quarter Horses and the publicity that surrounded them. Most of the early ASH registrations were of horses bred with bloodlines that were selected for campdrafting and/or cattle work in the rugged Great Dividing Range.

Other breeds were generally unsuitable for these dual purposes. Horses are now often being replaced in the flatter "outback" areas by motorcycles and helicopters, while horses are still necessary for the rugged mountain musterings.

Many of the classified horses had at least one line to Radium (1918-1947) and quite a few were inbred to him as were foundation sires of many breeds. Bobbie Bruce (1934-1947) was also very influential, too, especially in the Hunter area. Rivoli Ray (dec) was the sire of 514 progeny and Warrenbri Romeo sired 573. The remaining above (edited) mentioned horses sired over 400 progeny each and made significant contributions to many equestrian pursuits.

I would be quite happy to see the piece on conformation deleted.

Thanks for any help that you can provide as I am unable to insert the links etc.

http://www.ashs.com.au/downloads/Horsesofsignifcance.pdf

http://chalani.net/ashistory.php

PS I don't have any connections to any of the horses mentioned, beyond being admirer of any good horseflesh. Cgoodwin 12:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Editing in

I am going to start working in some of the material above. See what you think and do check for typos, for one thing, I had eye surgery a month ago and I miss stuff, two, I write in American English, and this article should be in British English, so fix away! Oh, also tossed in some stuff directly from those links you posted, thanks. Now that I understand the "Laundry list" I put in the whole thing in its proper context (looks like it won't grow over 14 if the official breed guru says there are 14 horses???) I stuck in some comments in hidden text that you can either fix in the article itself or by putting in draft language here. Montanabw^(talk) 02:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ____________________________

Wonderful work on your part. I have moved Silvius to the Thoroughbred list as he was an imported Tb. I was glad to see that you had included the bit about walking ability and agility as they are very important attributes of working ASH. The ASH are said to be the best walkers in the world and shows often have walking competitions. I'm am a little uncertain as to whether "Overall conformation is lean but not weak," is quite appropriate. Horses that are regularly camdrafting will be leaner that those shown in lead (halter) classes or hack classes. The general perception of an ASH is a nuggety, solid type of horse. Having said all of that though, earlier northern ASH were more of the Tb type. The Appendix horses were those that were for some reason not of the required standard to be accepted for the stud book. It may have been an injured or unbroken horse or mare of outstanding breeding, which accounted for 60% of the marks if I remember correctly. I'm uncertain about the pony query. I believe though that most of the pony influence would have been before the Welsh Mountain Ponies were recognised here as a breed. Thanks again for a superb job!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cgoodwin (talk • contribs) 00:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll check over your edits, and defer to your expertise. By "lean" where I am going is some way of distinguishing the breed from, say the Quarter Horse (I live in QH country, I can say that a lot of them look like lard on legs, bless 'em) They are more "Thoroughbredy" from the looks of things, yet they are not tall and leggy like race horses, either... "rangy" is what I want to say, it's an expression we used to use here in the western US, but it's a colloquialism that probably wouldn't make sense on wikipedia to most readers...sigh... Ah, these things are always being tweaked. Montanabw^(talk) 04:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

ELs

THis link, or its updated version, may have useful reference material for article improvement: *Australian Stock Horse or Waler. Montanabw^(talk) 06:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

This link should work. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:37, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

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