Talk:Atheist Alliance International

Bill Maher

The fact that Bill Maher has called himself an "apatheist" does not mean that he is not an atheist, since these terms are not mutually exclusive. Apatheism is also known as pragmatic atheism or practical atheism, and indicates a lack of belief. Many people lacking beliefs identify themselves with multiple terms (freethinker, bright, skeptic, agnostic, etc.), in part because those lacking belief tend to be somewhat less organized as a group then those who harbor belief. Michael Shermer, for example, has described himself as an agnostic, nontheist, atheist and advocate for humanist philosophy, but has also expressed reservations about these labels, because he sees them being used in the service of pigeonholing, and prefers to simply be called a skeptic. Since the section in question is really just to list who won the Richard Dawkins Award, it's inappropriate to include notes detailing each term with which they've labeled themselves. It's far more appropriate to the Bill Maher article, where this information already is. Nightscream (talk) 11:37, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Blog atheiststate.com

Is this blog connected with AAI? Looking at it, there doesn't seem to be any obvious link between the organisation and the blog. Also, the blog in question is written under the pseudonym Hero Protagonist and the link was added by Heroprotagonist2050, which may indicate a conflict of interest. Autarch (talk) 18:36, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

richard dawkins award

The wiki entry for "richard dawkins award" points to this page, but no information about that award is found on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.185.209.102 (talk) 22:36, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Should the list of conventions be a flat list?

It seems like this would be a bit more readable if we just had an ordinary unordered list here. I've changed it to that for now, but feel free to revert it if you'd like. 108.18.119.167 (talk) 03:48, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Criticism section

I've added an "Unbalanced" template because the "Criticisms" section is now half the total article. It deals exclusively with an argument about the group's internal democracy. Unless the group is primarily notable for this argument (deriving most of its secondary coverage from the argument) then the criticism section is too long and detailed. At the moment, there is a risk that the reader will think the article has been written by someone who was caught up in the argument and is having a vent. I lack the knowledge of the area, so I think it would benefit from other editors. Hence the tag! Elemimele (talk) 08:14, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Elemimele. My name is John Hamill. I am a former Secretary of AAI and I am the person who added the "Criticism" section. You are correct that I am one of the people who are concerned about democratic accountability within AAI, as the only atheist organisation in the world with Consultative Status at the UN and Participatory Status at the Council of Europe (as it happens, I am the person who achieved that status while I was at AAI). I don't feel that the 'Balance' tag is justified in this case, primarily because in recent years AAI has indeed been primarily notable for the criticism it has received rather than any achievements. Moreover, the majority of the citations that I added to the section are to the AAI web site itself. The section is not polemic but merely recounts objective facts about a series of changes to the Bylaws, each of which is demonstrated through citation. I could indeed vent about the damage that these changes have done, but this section is not that vent. Moreover, the section also includes criticisms recently published by several well-known human rights organisations. As such, I don't think it is useful to apply a 'Balance' tag based on a comparison of the volume of criticism, versus the volume of other material on the page. If this were the standard, then any organisation could limit the amount of criticism published, merely by achieving nothing and engaging only in activities that are worthy of criticism. In contrast, I think that the section I added is indeed balanced as it includes only objective facts that can be verified by the reader using the citations, most of which are pages on AAI's own web site. Thanks for taking the time to provide your comments though. I appreciate your time, even if I have a different perspective. JohnHamill151

It's also worth noting that the section I added refers to the AAI response to all the criticism they have received, and I have included a link to their response as a citation. I would not describe that as "Unbalanced". JohnHamill151

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2022

Manoj John has been suspended as the director of development, India for unethical practices aganist rational movement in Kerala. 103.104.44.57 (talk) 12:01, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 12:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2023

I do not argue the concerns of the page, but I do hope an edit to note that I was elected President of AAI in May of 2022 and stepped down in June of 2022, a little more than a few weeks.

I am quoted in the article and it makes me appear to have been part of the earliest criticisms of the organization going back a decade. In fact, my leadership role lasted less than a month. I would like the article to reflect I was appointed to the Board in May of 2022 and left the Board in June of 2022.

Thank you!

UPDATE:(8/18/23). Thank you Spintendo for the update reflecting my very brief AAI tenure. As I have an NDA with the organization, I cannot add my own comments/perspective, but I do thank you for making the adjustments to reflect my dates of leadership within AAI. I do wish them well, and I hope that the organization and all non-theist organizations fighting for human and civil rights can indeed bring hopeful change to our world.

Cordially, Dr. David I. Orenstein David Orenstein (talk) 18:06, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done: The dates of Orenstein's tenure were added to the article's text as prose, as well as in the infobox. Regards,  Spintendo  23:50, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks David. Even though you have a non-disclosure agreement with AAI, you can still help to improve this page by providing references to public sources that correct or clarify any of the claims made on this page, e.g. the claim that AAI has not been operating legally since 2021 when the California Secretary of State suspended the organisation. If that claim or other claims on this page are not true then they should be corrected. Martincboers (talk) 06:07, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi David ... you say that your "leadership role lasted less than a month". However, is it not true that you were attending Board meetings for many months? Thanks. JohnHamill151 (talk) 06:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi John, I feel a bit like this is beating a dead horse since it's been more than a year since my last involvement with AAI. I did attend one or two Board meetings but as an invited guest of the Board and not, in any way, taking a leadership role (voting, etc). So, yes, my leadership role on the AAI Board was just about a month back in 2022. Cordially, David 2603:7000:CF00:1610:E949:4910:5269:B9A7 (talk) 03:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi David, I was replying to your comment. If this discussion constitutes beating a dead horse then you are initiating as much of the beating as anyone. While you are here, can I ask why your NDA does not prevent you from discussing when you attended Board meetings as a guest? It seems like this is a very strange NDA that allows you to discuss whatever is convenient for you, and only prevents you from answering those questions that are very awkward for you.

John. JohnHamill151 (talk) 05:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way David, your NDA with AAI is not legally enforceable, because AAI was suspended by the California Franchise Tax Board when it was signed. The California FTB explains that here:

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/help/business/my-business-is-suspended.html#Contract-voidability

So you are free to correct any "hugely overblown" claims that have been made on this page, or elsewhere. Unless, of course, you voluntarily decide not to disclose AAI's illegal activities to its financial supporters, which is your choice. Martincboers (talk) 07:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Martin, as I wrote to John, this is getting a bit old. Also, I'm not sure wikipedia is the best place to continue these discussions. Perhaps over a pint when next I'm in your or John's town? I continue to respect the NDA which is my right to do so. Cordially, David 2603:7000:CF00:1610:E949:4910:5269:B9A7 (talk) 03:41, 26 September 2023 (UTC)