Talk:Arryn Zech/Archive 1

Archive 1

Relationship with Miles Luna

It is mentioned places like here and elsewhere, but I wasn't able to find a reliable source showing that Zech was in a romantic relationship with Miles Luna. Help on this would be appreciated. Historyday01 (talk) 23:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I’m not sure if this qualifies as reliable as it’s also a wiki, https://roosterteeth.fandom.com/wiki/Miles_Luna "He previously dated Arryn Zech, who voices "Blake Belladonna" from RWBY and '"Emily Grey" in Red vs. Blue." Lexaevermorewoods (talk) 15:48, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the wiki doesn't qualify as reliable. But, I'll see if I can find something from her now-deleted Twitter account. Historyday01 (talk) 16:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Would Miles calling her his girlfriend apply? I am still learning and since this is a firsthand source https://twitter.com/themilesluna/status/512777817000402945?s=46&t=0qSqHaJm5X7ED0AkLePz7A Lexaevermorewoods (talk) 16:33, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/themilesluna/status/541412175340765184?s=46&t=0qSqHaJm5X7ED0AkLePz7A

another one Lexaevermorewoods (talk) 16:35, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

While that does hold slightly more water, we can't use self published sources in BLPs that were written by someone other than the subject. However, the second tweet is a reply to Zech. If whatever she said in the tweet Miles replied to was saved in the Wayback Machine, and actually confirms they dated, we may be able to use it. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 17:10, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Looking around, I've found that the tweet to which Miles replied does not seem to be archived as far as I can tell. The only other sources are posts on reddit and tumblr from 2015, which link to urls from Rooster Teeth's official site that are purportedly to posts made by Miles Luna and Arryn Zech about their split; however they are apparently now deleted. The Wayback Machine has excluded Rooster Teeth's site from its archive, and other archive sites only yield snapshots of 404 errors. None of this is good for our purposes.

So, as to the matter of if Zech and Luna dated: Personally, I believe it. That sure looks like what all the commenters on the posts are reacting to. However, that's not what the sources say, and since we can't find any admissible sources that do say it, us believing it isn't quite good enough to put it in a Wikipedia article. We could keep hunting around, probably, but, if I may be forthcoming about my opinion: I think we probably shouldn't bother.

If I had that hard a time finding any of the sources that prove that they dated, I'd wager that those sources are probably gone for a good reason. The Wayback Machine straight-up refusing to offer any captures of Rooster Teeth's site is a pretty big red flag in that regard. It doesn't sound like their breakup went all too well, and I highly doubt that either Miles Luna or Arryn Zech would be pleased to find reference to their seven years bygone relationship drama on Zech's Wikipedia page with a citation to a tweet or post that Zech had deleted. Also, it doesn't seem particularly worth it, especially since whatever happened wasn't covered in any secondary sources and the only thing we'd be able to do without stepping on the edge of WP:UNDUE or WP:SCANDAL is list Luna as an ex in her infobox. So, yeah, I just don't think this is a hole that, for the purposes of this Wikipedia page, is worth continuing to dig.

My suggestion at this point would be to leave the information as it is, and add an invisible comment to the infobox saying not to add Luna's name as an ex unless a usable source surfaces in the future about it. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 17:49, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I have to agree with you. It doesn't look like this was saved in the Wayback Machine, and neither was this. There are some tweets from Luna to Zech, when searching on Twitter from his account (TheMilesLuna) and to Zech's (ArrynZech), but I doubt that most of these are in the Wayback Machine at all. I saw this because Zech's tweets saved on the Wayback Machine start in 2015, with the same for Luna. So, yeah, I have to agree your assessment here. Historyday01 (talk) 17:54, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Sourcing explanation

Replying to comment on my talk page.

@Historyday01: I wasn't advocating removal of interviews outright, I was suggesting having sources that are independent of the source for notability purposes. It just is better to have a RS say XYZ about subject, rather than the subject saying XYZ(in interview or wherever) and us repeating it.

The lead doesn't need any sources if it is cited information from body of article. That doesn't mean you can't use citations in leads, but its two simple sentences. We don't need to cite two sources for one fact (voice acting in RWBY), and because it already is cited in the article I removed it, same with Red v Blue.

We don't need two citations for her birthplace, especially when they are from same website. If it was something contentious, like the abuse accusations, than multiple sources is preferred, if it's something simple that isn't gonna be questioned, one source is enough.

For the Smite in 2014 citation, it is literally the same citation in the next part of sentence for Paladins in 2016. One citations covers both those facts, there is no need to use it twice when one covers both and they are right next to each other. All of this is too much of refbombing. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:53, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I suppose, but I would rather have citations in the lead than no citations at all. I knew that adding more sources would be better than less. If I added less, then someone would have nominated the page for deletion or claimed it wasn't ready for the mainspace, throwing it back to a draft or something like that. I would rather have more sources than less. Currently the lead only has three sources. That isn't that many and I wouldn't say it counts as refbombing. In terms of the sources, I did a deep dive on Zech when creating the page, as I noted in your talk page. If I had found better sources, I would have added them, but I used the best ones I could find. Like her co-star, Kara Eberle, a LOT of the sources focus on her role in RWBY, so it wasn't easy to find anything else beyond that.Historyday01 (talk) 18:05, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I didn't really look for more sources about her, but it doesn't matter how many citations are added, it can still be nominated for deletion. More isn't always necessarily better, and I was just trying to clean it up a bit. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:41, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I know, any page can theoretically be nominated for deletion, which is a bit disconcerting to think about.Historyday01 (talk) 18:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Spanish born

This implies, to me at least, that she’s Spanish. There’s no indication she is Spanish aside from being born in Spain, where her father was stationed. Of course, I have no reliable source for this aside from her mothers social media, but I feel there’s no source to say she is, either, except her birth place. Thoughts? Lexaevermorewoods (talk) 16:25, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Saying she is Spanish-born is fine, I would say. Historyday01 (talk) 16:50, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

To my knowledge Zech has never described herself as Hispanic or Latino. Without any sources to say so, to describe her as such would be original research. The article as it stands, stating "Spanish-born American," seems to me a sufficient description of the information we currently have. And her mother's social media, as per our policies on articles about living persons, isn't good enough to add anything. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 16:50, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Right, exactly. In writing the article I found nothing saying she was Latino or Hispanic. I think Spanish-born American is fine, to be honest, as she was born in Spain but has lived most of her life in the U.S. Historyday01 (talk) 01:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Eliza Taylor

I think the geekspin should be reliable as its directly quoting Eliza. I think it should be expanded to include both sides of the story rather than just Arryn, especially given Arryns accusations involve Eliza and her husband, and that Zech accusations involve some mind reading, evidently. Lexaevermorewoods (talk) 13:01, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Since this "story" was never published in People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes, but only on gossip sites like Den of Geek, The Daily Dot, and Popculture.com, we can get a clue of what it's really about.

These texts simply radiate with bias. Kizo2703 (talk) 13:42, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Some things don't get published in People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes because those publications are incredibly mainstream and the people who read them don't care about the personal relationships of the voice of the catgirl from the web anime created by the guy who made Haloid. Zech isn't a massive celebrity. She's not Zendaya. She's a voice actress who is particularly relevant to a specific subculture but practically unknown outside of it. She has an article not because she's a household name, but because she's received a lot of coverage in that subculture which makes her notable, albeit still obscure. That fact alone does not suggest a bias in those subculture-centric sources. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 15:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. I was even surprised I found as many sources as I did when writing this article. I mean, there was MUCH more I could have added to the article and decided against it when creating it, because I couldn't verify it. Historyday01 (talk) 15:28, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Her notability is questionable as is, last time I went through sources I think the Scenestr one was the only one that would help pass WP:GNG, the rest were interviews or passing mention of her while talking about RWBY or a convention. Regardless this isn't a notability concern it's a WP:BLP concern. She never said he cheated with Taylor, but we are saying "media"(DailyDot/PopCulture) claiming she was referring to Taylor. If we remove mention of Taylor and leave it as Zech said "a girl", we wouldn't have people wanting to balance it with a response from Taylor. WikiVirusC^(talk) 15:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I mean, I would say Zech IS notable, based on the available sources, but most of what is out there about here is about RWBY, which is understandable considering that is her biggest voice role. And I would imagine that more sources may come out about Zech this year. But, I'll see if I can find more/better sources. I have a Google Alert for Zech already, so if any better sources come across, I'll be sure to add them. Historyday01 (talk) 16:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

The only problem is apart from the sources currently added, just about everything else are from sites which have questionable reliability. I only added Den of Geek, The Daily Dot, and Popculture.com because they are reliable. For the other commenter to think that People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes are more reliable is just laughable. Not everything is published in those publications. Besides, Rotten Tomatoes generally doesn't publish their own reviews as it is mostly its user-submitted content, which is not reliable. Historyday01 (talk) 15:33, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Check out Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes are considered reliable, WP:DAILYDOT has no consensus on general reliability, but is fine for non-contentious claims of fact. Would need to search for prior discussions for Den of Geek or Popculture.com. WikiVirusC^(talk) 15:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I've used that page a lot, to be honest, but I'm just questioning that because it wasn't published in People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes, that somehow degrades its reliability. I've used People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes before on here, but I would seriously doubt that they would even talk about Zech at all. Historyday01 (talk) 15:48, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I was just pointing there as you were saying it was laughable to say those three were more reliable, even though they are listed there as reliable and the gossip sites either aren't or as with DailyDot no consensus to reliability. They are more reliable, but they aren't going to be useful for non mainstream people as BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4 said. WikiVirusC^(talk) 15:54, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Basically, all I was saying saying is that Den of Geek, The Daily Dot, and Popculture.com are just as reliable as People, Entertainment Weekly, or Rotten Tomatoes. I would argue that People can go toward gossip more, and perhaps even Entertainment Weekly, but from my experience, Den of Geek, The Daily Dot, and Popculture.com have people solid articles usually, with the same for EW. Still, there can be good articles in Den of Geek, The Daily Dot, Popculture.com, People, and Entertainment Weekly. Usually I see Rotten Tomatoes cited for its review aggregation score for series (which has been stated as reliable), but the page you stated does say, for Rotten Tomatoes that "there is no consensus on whether its blog articles and critic opinion pages are generally reliable for facts."

Besides, I highly doubt that Rotten Tomotes would cover something like this topic. Instead, I could see them writing a review of RWBY or that new RWBY crossover film. A search on EW pulled up nothing for Zech, nor did People Magazine, which honestly, doesn't surprise me at all. As I said earlier, I was surprised I found as many sources as I did about Zech. The only other sources I just found is an article in El Comercio (translated version is here) but I'm not seeing anything novel in that which isn't already covered by other sources.Historyday01 (talk) 16:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Partner

As far as we know, Arryn Zech doesn't have a partner at the moment. And, it certainly IS NOT Bob Morley, who is as we all know, married to Eliza Taylor (for almost four years). I don't know why is he written as her partner in the first place at all, considering the site was created on 30 March 2023‎! Kizo2703 (talk) 14:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I removed his name. In edit comment I mistakenly said partners was only for spouses, but was mistaken, it should be used for unmarried life partners in a domestic partnership. Either way Morley doesn't apply. Their relationship as described in reliable sources was always only alleged and rumored, and never confirmed by either of them up until the abuse allegations. Their certainty aren't any sources to describe some kid of life/domestic partnership. WikiVirusC^(talk) 15:12, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah ok. I just assumed that when it said "partners" it could mean boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. But, that's good to know that it means "unmarried life partners in a domestic relationship". You are right that the relationship was only rumored or alleged before the abuse allegations. So, I'm fine with it being removed from the infobox. Historyday01 (talk) 15:30, 15 April 2023 (UTC)