Talk:Area code 312

Why are all the area codes considered stubs?

How much can be said about an area code? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.75.180.31 (talk) 04:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Overlay question

Can 312 numbers now be assigned in the 773 region with the overlay, since there are still a decent amount of those remaining (with 773 exhausted) and they are in the same area code region? CrazyC83 (talk) 21:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

No, the 312 and 773 geographical regions remain distinct despite the new overlay. Think of it in terms of a Venn diagram: 312 and 773 are adjacent squares; they touch on one side but do not intersect. The new 872 area code is a rectangle that shares the outer boundaries of both squares (but obviously not the shared side). Another way to think of it is that it is like the United States; each state can make law in its own territory, and the federal government can make law applicable all the states, but no state can make law applicable in another state. In that example, of course, the states are 312 and 773, the federal government is 872, and making law is assigning telephone numbers. I hope you don't find this patronizing or insulting; I'm just having trouble articulating exactly what I'm trying to say. -Rrius (talk) 23:51, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Pop-culture section

I am going to justify the removal of every single one of these trivia items right now, individually:

• Goose Island Brewery brews an ale named "312 Urban Wheat Ale".
  • This is about Goose Island Brewery, and not about the area code itself. It is already discussed in the Goose Island Brewery article. Non-notable trivia here.

• A restaurant at the Kimpton Hotels operated Hotel Allegro, at LaSalle and Randolph Streets in the Loop, is named "312 Chicago".
  • This does not appear to be a notable restaurant, based on sourcing, which solely consists of the restaurant's own page. And in any case, this is about the restaurant, and not the area code. Non-notable trivia in this instance.

• When 312 covered the entire city, city residents would derisively call suburbanites "708ers" in reference to their area code.
  • Original research.

• The Chicago-based Christian rock group Resurrection Band released a song called "Area 312" on their 1982 album D.M.Z.
  • This is not about the area code itself, but rather about the album. This is already discussed in the D.M.Z. article. Non-notable trivia in this instance.

• Portions of the film RoboCop 2 were filmed in the Chicago area. A telephone number written on an abandoned building is (312) 555-7890.
  • Original research without a citation from a reliable source, and not about the area code, but rather trivia from a movie.

• The Snoop Dogg song "That's That", contains the lyrics: "Girl if you ever in the 312, holla at a playa".
  • Original research without a citation from a reliable source, and not about the area code, but rather about a song. Also non-notable trivia in this instance.

• The music project Radio Flyer used (312) as a track title.
  • Original research without a citation from a reliable source, and not about the area code, but rather an unnamed album. Also non-notable trivia in this instance.

This kind of stuff is the reason why in-pop-culture sections in general are bad things, with this one being particularly bad. I do not need anyone's permission to remove the section, and so I am removing the section. It should not be re-added in its current form. See WP:OFFTOPIC and WP:NOR. SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:26, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

There are a number of problems with what your list and your edit warring, but among them is a failure to understand policy and guidelines, not least of which is a lack of understanding of what original research is and the BRD cycle. The lack of a citation does not make a thing original research. Further, non-controversial things, such as the names of songs or the presence of words in their lyrics, do not necessarily require citations. If you truly think the song titles and lyrics require citations, they are generally easy to find online. Further, you do not seem to understand that the use of a thing in pop culture is about the thing itself in addition to the pop culture item. That something is in Goose Island Brewery does not mean it isn't also relevant here. As I see it, the restaurant 312 Chicago and the RoboCop telephone number are trivial and should be deleted, and the "708ers" thing, though true, is OR and should also be deleted. The others are fine. -Rrius (talk) 01:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Response to Third Opinion Request:

Disclaimers: I am responding to a third opinion request made at WP:3O. I have made no previous edits on Area code 312 and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process (FAQ) is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. Third opinions are not tiebreakers and should not be "counted" in determining whether or not consensus has been reached. My personal standards for issuing third opinions can be viewed here.

Opinion: While the lack of a citation does not, per se, make things original research I do agree that it is OR to presume that these references to 312 are references to the area code unless there are reliable sources or clear and undeniable contextual evidence to indicate that they are meant to refer to the area code. The mere fact that the uses occur within the 312 area code is not enough to support the assertion that they are necessarily references to the area code. Though it is, indeed, likely that all the references refer to the area code, with the exception of the 3d and 5th items above they could refer to any number of things other than the area code. (Let me say here that I've not clicked through to all the links to see if there is evidence of an area-code reference in the sources which are currently given; if such evidence is there, then the sources need to be evaluated as to reliability, but that's not the issue here at this point in time.) As to the exceptions: While the 3d clearly makes reference to the area code, it must be sourced in order not to be OR. The 5th is an unmistakeable reference to the area code, being in a phone number, but the fact that part of the film was shot in Chicago and that the number does, in fact, appear in the film must be reliably sourced if challenged. The 4th and 6th items are not exceptions even though the titles and lyrics of those songs (see here and here), with only a little analysis, fairly clearly link the use of the number to the area code. The problem there, however, is that use of analysis. Using the lyrics of the songs for proof that they refer to the area codes is using them as primary sources and the no original research policy forbids any interpretation or analysis of material from a primary source in order to come to a conclusion about its assertions. (Ask this question: If those lyrics were read by a person who does not know that 312 is an area code, would they inevitably and unmistakably come away from reading those titles and lyrics with the understanding that the reference to 312 is a reference to the 312 area code? In both instances, I think such a reader might suspect that to be the case, but I think that it would be unreasonable to conclude that such would necessarily be the result.) Short of some third-party reliable source which states that the use of 312 in those songs is a reference to the area code, then the lyrics are not sufficiently clear in that usage to allow those items to be used here. Thus, the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th items are ambiguous as to whether the use of the number is a reference to the area code and should not be included here unless a reliable source can be provided showing that the use of the number is indeed a reference to the area code. As for the claims that the references are trivial or non-notable, because of the somewhat trivial nature of popular culture references in this kind of article, I do think that any of the seven items can be legitimately included, if the connection between the number and the area code can be reliably sourced. If there were a large number of such references, to the point that including all of them would cause the section to be disproportionate to the general size and purpose of the article, then some relevancy- or quality- weighing might be in order, but such is not the case at this point in time.

What's next: Once you've considered this opinion click here to see what happens next.—TransporterMan (TALK) 15:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

References

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