Wikipedia

Talk:Amy Karle/Archive 1

< Talk:Amy Karle
Latest comment: 1 year ago by LWu22 in topic WiG brief review
Archive 1Archive 2

cite error under references

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm getting this error under references: Cite error: The named reference :9 was invoked but never defined (see the help page) and did visit the help page but can't figure out how to resolve it. Please resolve it if you know how. Thank you 62.255.211.30 (talk) 62.255.211.30 (talk) 21:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@62.255.211.30: you're getting this error because you have created ref tags with names that don't match to anything. You can view WP:REFNAME for help with that. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:24, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

"Artificial Intelligence A.I." or "Exponential Technologies" or [something else] section - what is best titling. here?

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments3 people in discussion

AI is a category, however it is not the only exponential technology that Karle researches and works with. She's also notable in Regenerative Medicine / Biotechnology, Bioprinting, 3D printing, and digital manufacturing. Does an editor(s) have a suggestion of how to name and organize this section to best represent the tech she works with? Would you be willing to try to edit it to better represent her work? ~~~ 62.255.211.30 (talk) 23:09, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with this person, so I probably won't do any large editing, but I'd say "Artificial Intelligence A.I." is not a good title because it's redundant. Just "Artificial Intelligence" seems fine. Also as a general style note, you should stick to third person, which means not using "our" and "us". Also, it seems like you may be overly relying on primary sources here. It would be much better for establishing the notability of your content if you could reference other sources than the artist's own website and videos of herself. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:27, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Something like Use of Emerging and Exponential Technology as a section would be highly suitable, with subsections of the main tools she uses like 3D Printing / Additive Manufacturing, Bioprinting, AI, Synthetic Bio / Regenerative Medicine et.al. ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 18:07, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:RS Please check refs and add sources before removing information or undoing edits

Latest comment: 1 year ago15 comments2 people in discussion

Glad to see editors are eager to help update this page. I'm seeing edits being undone that had quality refs. Before removing information from the article, undoing edits, or removing vital information, please check through the refs on the article, the below refs, and/or search for supporting high quality sources and add supporting BLP quality refs as opposed to removing information or undoing edits. -ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Note that WP:BLP requires poorly referenced content to be removed. --Hipal (talk) 21:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:RS BLP Quality References:

In response to the template and to support editing, here are some WP:RS blp-quality references below. I'm seeing a number of WP:RS blp quality refs in early versions of this page and in the current article refs list. The challenge may be to sort through and lean on the highest quality refs then trim the rest. Here are some that stand out to me, please check through the refs on the main article as well and please add more that you find.


  1. BBC, BBC News and BBC Cultural Frontline
  2. Fast Company
  3. Popular Science
  4. Ars Technica
  5. The Influential
  6. 3D printing industry specific publications that seem to be established/reliable sources in that specific field.[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
  7. Art and design industry publications like Design Milk, The Art Blog, Fahrenheit,
  8. Art Books that Karle's work is included in [7][8]
  9. Ideas and the Matter: What will we be made of and what will the world be made of? Book
  10. Creating Art Science Collaboration book
  11. Religion and the Digital Arts book
  12. Death and The Female Body: Representations of Death in Fashion and Femininity publication
  13. There are a number of foreign reference sources which can be used as long as they are reliable.[9][10] [11] [12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19] [20](+ more on main article ref list)


  1. Smithsonian Magazine
    Why is this listed? Is the link incorrect? --Hipal (talk) 21:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    oops,here is a corrected link: | Smithsonian Magazine and similar in Wired.
    Karle is mentioned in one sentence as an artist. There are a few sentences relevant to her in the article it links: Smithsonian Releases 2.8 Million Images Into Public Domain. --Hipal (talk) 23:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    That should be enough to establish that she did that project and created that artwork etc.
  1. USA Embassy / Consulate
    This is a press release, so a poor source that should be used with care if at all, unless paired with an independent, BLP-quality source. --Hipal (talk) 16:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    Not clear that the US Embassy articles are press releases?
    Quickly found this related article from Polskie Radio: https://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/2118251,Kulisy-Kultury-tatuaze-z-chlorofilu-i-sukienka-z-glonow and other articles from the embassy:
    https://pl.usembassy.gov/incubator_eng/
    https://pl.usembassy.gov/arts-incubator-program-successfully-concludes-with-exhibition-at-copernicus-science-center/?_ga=2.40934562.1075549270.1692722056-1709417407.1692722054
  2. Bloomberg Also in Bloomberg Art & Tech season 1 ep 7
    The first is an interview, the second a presentation by Karle. Both are primary sources. --Hipal (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
  3. Vice
    Per WP:RSP, there's no consensus on the reliability of Vice. We'll have to make a case to use this or any other Vice articles. --Hipal (talk) 16:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
  4. A Mirror of Flesh: An Exploration of Materiality in Living Bioengineered Art research paper
    This is a doctoral thesis for a degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Art History. I'm not sure what the current consensus is for such publications. --Hipal (talk) 22:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
    I think this is ok as per WP:SCHOLARSHIP
  5. Biopolitics in Future and the Arts: AI, Robotic, Cities, Life research paper
    This is a student research paper. The author appears to be https://goldsmiths.academia.edu/AnaFlores . I don't believe this meets BLP. --Hipal (talk) 22:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
    we have to check it against WP:SCHOLARSHIP
    Thanks for the link. Not usable according to it. --Hipal (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
  6. The Path of the Modern Muses book
    Probably not reliable given it's independently published. --Hipal (talk) 22:02, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


-ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


Thanks for collecting these. I hope you don't mind my adding numbering to them for reference purposes. --Hipal (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
All sources are in question until we've determined different. --Hipal (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://all3dp.com/1/40-influential-women-3d-printing/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ https://www.3dnatives.com/en/3d-printing-in-art-evolution-of-creation-260920184/#!. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. ^ https://3dprint.com/147378/3d-printed-cell-culture-scaffold/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. ^ http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160525-artist-amy-karle-is-growing-a-human-hand-with-3d-printed-scaffolds-and-stem-cells.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  5. ^ https://all3dp.com/3d-printed-hand-trellis/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  6. ^ https://www.3dnatives.com/en/women-in-3d-printing-080320184/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  7. ^ "Future and the Arts exhibition: How humanity will live tomorrow" (PDF). Mori Art Museum. Mori Arts Centre. March 2020. Retrieved 2 April 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  8. ^ Stocker, Gerfried; Schöpf, Christine; Leopoldseder, Hannes, eds. (2017). "AI Artificial Intelligence - Das andere Ich" (PDF). Ars Electronica. p. 392.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  9. ^ Martínez, Gabriela (9 January 2020). "Amy Karle: "La tecnología puede ser usada para nuestro beneficio o muerte"". innovaspain (in Spanish).
  10. ^ Twardoch-Raś, Ewelina (2021-11-02). Sztuka biometryczna w perspektywie filozofii post- i transhumanizmu: w stronę estetyki postafektywnej (in Polish). Wydawnictwo UJ. ISBN 978-83-233-7212-7.
  11. ^ Marlene Bart, Johannes Breuer, Alex Leo Freier (2022). Atlas of Data Bodies 1: Body images in art, design and science in the age of digital media.Imagining Life: Amy Karle's Artistic Research Practice (pg 22-33). ISBN 978-3-8376-6178-1.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  12. ^ "【干货】第二届北京媒体艺术双年展（BMAB）论坛". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-06-22.
  13. ^ "Ciberpercepção e autoconhecimento: interfaces para o desenvolvimento da autopercepção através da interatividade". Researchgate.net. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  14. ^ Pires, Rafaela (28 June 2018). Entre-telas: o designer de moda nas imediações da cultura maker e indústria 4.0 (PDF). Researchgate.net (Thesis). Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  15. ^ Twardoch-Raś, Ewelina (10 December 2019). "Pętle neurofeedbacku : elektroencefalografia jako strategia artystyczna w wybranych projektach z zakresu art & science". Kultura Współczesna. 4 (107). doi:10.26112/kw.2019.107.11. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  16. ^ "Voyage au cœur de l'IA: derniers jours en kiosque". Libération (in French). Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  17. ^ 不艾死机. "艾厂× aai | 生成式和自治的艺术：对版权法有什么影响？". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-06-22.
  18. ^ "ARTE COMPUTACIONAL: UM CAMPO DE PESQUISA E CRIAÇÃO" (PDF). Repositorio.ufu.br. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  19. ^ "沈柏逸／作為科技標本的蓋婭：評當代藝術館《蓋婭》展覽 - 報導者 The Reporter". The Reporter (Taiwan) (in Chinese (Taiwan)). Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  20. ^ 胡, 正躍 (2019-05-30). 功名與功夫. Global Publishing. ISBN 978-981-12-0306-0.

Please Help Improve!

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I'm seeking help to improve this article and resolve the issues on the template warning. I did what I could to clean up the article. I am seeking more support from the editing community to help correct issues listed on the template and edit the article appropriately to meet BLP standards. Would fellow editors please help update the page and remove the template warning on the main article? Or if you feel that it has been sufficiently updated, please remove the template. ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 22:11, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. I don't have a great deal of time to work on this for the time being, but that will change at some point.
In the meanwhile, Pointing out BIO and other high-quality references would help. This will allow us to be sure her notability is properly identified and presented.
Identifying/discussing the major changes since the version I identified earlier would also help.
If you want a quick fix, remove everything only referenced by poor sources. Any paragraph or especially any section that doesn't have at least one reference that is clearly high-quality and independent should probably be removed as well. --Hipal (talk) 00:30, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback Hipal.
Updates since template add 9 August 2023‎:
• Trimmed article down by ~40% by doing the following:
• Removed low-quality refs, refs to artist website, promotional content.
• Linked high-quality sources, removed unsourced content. Some areas have multiple refs, may only need 1-2.
• Condensed work by IP editor from June, removed puff and low-quality refs.
• Broke out lead section into lead and approach section, trimmed both.
• Moved copyrights but see that was reversed and marked undue, promo. If important for the article, someone else can re-add where appropriate.[USPTO link]

ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 04:34, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I worked on this article today, re-wrote the Major Works section, see my note above. I hope this has resolved the issues. -LWu22 (talk) 20:56, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

WP:RS Please check refs and add sources before removing information or undoing edits

Latest comment: 1 year ago15 comments2 people in discussion

Glad to see editors are eager to help update this page. I'm seeing edits being undone that had quality refs. Before removing information from the article, undoing edits, or removing vital information, please check through the refs on the article, the below refs, and/or search for supporting high quality sources and add supporting BLP quality refs as opposed to removing information or undoing edits. -ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Note that WP:BLP requires poorly referenced content to be removed. --Hipal (talk) 21:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:RS BLP Quality References:

In response to the template and to support editing, here are some WP:RS blp-quality references below. I'm seeing a number of WP:RS blp quality refs in early versions of this page and in the current article refs list. The challenge may be to sort through and lean on the highest quality refs then trim the rest. Here are some that stand out to me, please check through the refs on the main article as well and please add more that you find.


  1. BBC, BBC News and BBC Cultural Frontline
  2. Fast Company
  3. Popular Science
  4. Ars Technica
  5. The Influential
  6. 3D printing industry specific publications that seem to be established/reliable sources in that specific field.[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
  7. Art and design industry publications like Design Milk, The Art Blog, Fahrenheit,
  8. Art Books that Karle's work is included in [7][8]
  9. Ideas and the Matter: What will we be made of and what will the world be made of? Book
  10. Creating Art Science Collaboration book
  11. Religion and the Digital Arts book
  12. Death and The Female Body: Representations of Death in Fashion and Femininity publication
  13. There are a number of foreign reference sources which can be used as long as they are reliable.[9][10] [11] [12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19] [20](+ more on main article ref list)


  1. Smithsonian Magazine
    Why is this listed? Is the link incorrect? --Hipal (talk) 21:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    oops,here is a corrected link: | Smithsonian Magazine and similar in Wired.
    Karle is mentioned in one sentence as an artist. There are a few sentences relevant to her in the article it links: Smithsonian Releases 2.8 Million Images Into Public Domain. --Hipal (talk) 23:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    That should be enough to establish that she did that project and created that artwork etc.
  1. USA Embassy / Consulate
    This is a press release, so a poor source that should be used with care if at all, unless paired with an independent, BLP-quality source. --Hipal (talk) 16:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
    Not clear that the US Embassy articles are press releases?
    Quickly found this related article from Polskie Radio: https://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/2118251,Kulisy-Kultury-tatuaze-z-chlorofilu-i-sukienka-z-glonow and other articles from the embassy:
    https://pl.usembassy.gov/incubator_eng/
    https://pl.usembassy.gov/arts-incubator-program-successfully-concludes-with-exhibition-at-copernicus-science-center/?_ga=2.40934562.1075549270.1692722056-1709417407.1692722054
  2. Bloomberg Also in Bloomberg Art & Tech season 1 ep 7
    The first is an interview, the second a presentation by Karle. Both are primary sources. --Hipal (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
  3. Vice
    Per WP:RSP, there's no consensus on the reliability of Vice. We'll have to make a case to use this or any other Vice articles. --Hipal (talk) 16:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
  4. A Mirror of Flesh: An Exploration of Materiality in Living Bioengineered Art research paper
    This is a doctoral thesis for a degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Art History. I'm not sure what the current consensus is for such publications. --Hipal (talk) 22:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
    I think this is ok as per WP:SCHOLARSHIP
  5. Biopolitics in Future and the Arts: AI, Robotic, Cities, Life research paper
    This is a student research paper. The author appears to be https://goldsmiths.academia.edu/AnaFlores . I don't believe this meets BLP. --Hipal (talk) 22:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
    we have to check it against WP:SCHOLARSHIP
    Thanks for the link. Not usable according to it. --Hipal (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
  6. The Path of the Modern Muses book
    Probably not reliable given it's independently published. --Hipal (talk) 22:02, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


-ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


Thanks for collecting these. I hope you don't mind my adding numbering to them for reference purposes. --Hipal (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
All sources are in question until we've determined different. --Hipal (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://all3dp.com/1/40-influential-women-3d-printing/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ https://www.3dnatives.com/en/3d-printing-in-art-evolution-of-creation-260920184/#!. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. ^ https://3dprint.com/147378/3d-printed-cell-culture-scaffold/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. ^ http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160525-artist-amy-karle-is-growing-a-human-hand-with-3d-printed-scaffolds-and-stem-cells.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  5. ^ https://all3dp.com/3d-printed-hand-trellis/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  6. ^ https://www.3dnatives.com/en/women-in-3d-printing-080320184/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  7. ^ "Future and the Arts exhibition: How humanity will live tomorrow" (PDF). Mori Art Museum. Mori Arts Centre. March 2020. Retrieved 2 April 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  8. ^ Stocker, Gerfried; Schöpf, Christine; Leopoldseder, Hannes, eds. (2017). "AI Artificial Intelligence - Das andere Ich" (PDF). Ars Electronica. p. 392.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  9. ^ Martínez, Gabriela (9 January 2020). "Amy Karle: "La tecnología puede ser usada para nuestro beneficio o muerte"". innovaspain (in Spanish).
  10. ^ Twardoch-Raś, Ewelina (2021-11-02). Sztuka biometryczna w perspektywie filozofii post- i transhumanizmu: w stronę estetyki postafektywnej (in Polish). Wydawnictwo UJ. ISBN 978-83-233-7212-7.
  11. ^ Marlene Bart, Johannes Breuer, Alex Leo Freier (2022). Atlas of Data Bodies 1: Body images in art, design and science in the age of digital media.Imagining Life: Amy Karle's Artistic Research Practice (pg 22-33). ISBN 978-3-8376-6178-1.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  12. ^ "【干货】第二届北京媒体艺术双年展（BMAB）论坛". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-06-22.
  13. ^ "Ciberpercepção e autoconhecimento: interfaces para o desenvolvimento da autopercepção através da interatividade". Researchgate.net. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  14. ^ Pires, Rafaela (28 June 2018). Entre-telas: o designer de moda nas imediações da cultura maker e indústria 4.0 (PDF). Researchgate.net (Thesis). Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  15. ^ Twardoch-Raś, Ewelina (10 December 2019). "Pętle neurofeedbacku : elektroencefalografia jako strategia artystyczna w wybranych projektach z zakresu art & science". Kultura Współczesna. 4 (107). doi:10.26112/kw.2019.107.11. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  16. ^ "Voyage au cœur de l'IA: derniers jours en kiosque". Libération (in French). Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  17. ^ 不艾死机. "艾厂× aai | 生成式和自治的艺术：对版权法有什么影响？". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-06-22.
  18. ^ "ARTE COMPUTACIONAL: UM CAMPO DE PESQUISA E CRIAÇÃO" (PDF). Repositorio.ufu.br. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  19. ^ "沈柏逸／作為科技標本的蓋婭：評當代藝術館《蓋婭》展覽 - 報導者 The Reporter". The Reporter (Taiwan) (in Chinese (Taiwan)). Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  20. ^ 胡, 正躍 (2019-05-30). 功名與功夫. Global Publishing. ISBN 978-981-12-0306-0.

Please Help Improve!

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I'm seeking help to improve this article and resolve the issues on the template warning. I did what I could to clean up the article. I am seeking more support from the editing community to help correct issues listed on the template and edit the article appropriately to meet BLP standards. Would fellow editors please help update the page and remove the template warning on the main article? Or if you feel that it has been sufficiently updated, please remove the template. ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 22:11, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. I don't have a great deal of time to work on this for the time being, but that will change at some point.
In the meanwhile, Pointing out BIO and other high-quality references would help. This will allow us to be sure her notability is properly identified and presented.
Identifying/discussing the major changes since the version I identified earlier would also help.
If you want a quick fix, remove everything only referenced by poor sources. Any paragraph or especially any section that doesn't have at least one reference that is clearly high-quality and independent should probably be removed as well. --Hipal (talk) 00:30, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback Hipal.
Updates since template add 9 August 2023‎:
• Trimmed article down by ~40% by doing the following:
• Removed low-quality refs, refs to artist website, promotional content.
• Linked high-quality sources, removed unsourced content. Some areas have multiple refs, may only need 1-2.
• Condensed work by IP editor from June, removed puff and low-quality refs.
• Broke out lead section into lead and approach section, trimmed both.
• Moved copyrights but see that was reversed and marked undue, promo. If important for the article, someone else can re-add where appropriate.[USPTO link]

ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 04:34, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I worked on this article today, re-wrote the Major Works section, see my note above. I hope this has resolved the issues. -LWu22 (talk) 20:56, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Article needs to be rewritten

Latest comment: 1 year ago14 comments6 people in discussion

I found this article while following up what appears to be WP:UPE editing. The article has the typical problems of such editing: a poorly referenced, promotional presentation. Compare to what may be the last good version: [1]. Everything that's not supported by BLP-quality refs should be removed. We need to identify the references that establish WP:BIO, and other high-quality references. --Hipal (talk) 18:57, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

@Hipal, I agree with your observation. It was heavily edited by the artist some time ago, so it is definitely a COI article (they then changed their user name after adding links and photos of their work to several other articles.) Then the additions were made by an IP. Whether there is now UPE editing going on is a distinct possibility. It also contains an excessive amount of detail (possible OR?) which should probably be pruned. Netherzone (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
@Hipal BLP-quality refs list below, plus myself and other editors have made updates. What else needs be done to resolve the issues and remove the templates? ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
@Hipal Netherzone I agree with you. This page was originally created as part of a Women in Red editing project (University of Edinburgh). Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red
I think it might help if folks have a look at the relevant advice page for biographies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Essays/Primer_for_creating_women%27s_biographies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Essays/Primer_for_creating_women%27s_biographies
@ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey It does seem to me that the page has become overloaded with content and the number of references is excessive. A shorter page might be a lot clearer and more effective. Grousebeater2 (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi. I looked at the GA rated article on Neri Oxman as an example of how to update the article on Amy Karle. Neri Oxman and Amy Karle have exhibited together and both have a number of works and extensive reference lists on their articles. I updated the article in a style more like Oxman’s and also referenced the Primer for creating women’s biographies.

I am a student editor and looked at this in detail with a peer reviewer in my class. Neither one of us know nor have a COI with either Oxman nor Karle. We think it’s updated appropriately now with a neutral point of view, not written as an advertisement, thus I removed the template tag.

I hope that my work has "sufficiently updated" the article and I welcome improvements to the work I have done. -LWu22 (talk) 20:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. While an improvement, much more is needed.
I'm still not clear which are the BIO refs, and the article doesn't appear to be written around such references.
GA articles can be helpful, but it's no substitute for following policies, guidelines, and general consensus. --Hipal (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi Hipal, I followed the BLP policies/guidelines, and used the BIO refs. In addition, I referenced the Primer for women's bios (and GA article of a similar person as a guideline). My peer reviewer and I are unclear why you re-added the template tag. My teacher suggested that I ask about each issue in the template on the talk page and try to resolve them one by one. Here it is:
This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. (August 2023). Reviewing the edits that myself and others have made it seems this has been resolved. Please point out areas that still need to be fixed or remove the template for this.
A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. (August 2023) I agree that past edits read as though there was COI / UPE. We did some investigation with our teacher but couldn't find where an editor was found to be COI / UPE. We also reviewed the edit history. We couldn't find what User:Netherzone was referring to either. We did find where the artist uploaded images (clicked on the image and followed the username) and then changed their username, but not where the artist edited this article on herself under either username. Assuming good faith *and also recognizing previous problematic COI/UPE, it appears the edits that myself and others have made recently overcome previous potential COI/UPE edits. Please point out areas that still need to be fixed or remove the template for this.
This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may interest only a particular audience. (August 2023) This was an issue with the major works section, so I re-wrote that section. Please point out areas that still contain an excessive amount of intricate detail or remove the template for this.
I am trying to improve this page through WikiProject Women in Green Good Article Edit-a-thon and get it to good standing where the template tags will be removed. LWu22 (talk) 01:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I've provided a diff of what I think is a fairly good version of this article to use in comparison. The subsequent three edits look fine, so this version is better.
@Netherzone:, could you address the COI/UPE questions?
A BLP article where WP:BIO-criteria references aren't clearly identifiable is a serious problem.
The main contributor to this article, the now blocked ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey, has demonstrated below a lack of understanding of what references are suitable for BLP articles per WP:BLPRS. That's a serious problem.
While we've made some progress, there's a lot more to be done. My recommendations from my starting this discussion still stand. --Hipal (talk) 02:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
My recommendations from my first response in the discussion below still stand.
I've removed the long list of museums where she's exhibited that was poorly referenced and inappropriate for the lede. A summary statement may be WP:DUE if supported by independent references that clearly demonstrate historical importance. --Hipal (talk) 15:23, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
@Hipal, @LWu22, I've been totally slammed at work the past few weeks, and don't have as much free time for volunteering.
I haven't yet read thru all the changes that have been made since I was pinged, but can definitely agree with Hipal's suggestion that the article was much better when it was shorter (their suggestion of the "last good version": [2]) after it was cleaned up by @Possibly. In general, the article was easy to spot as being COI/promo, both by the edit history and the overall tone being unencyclopedic in a specific way that's fairly clear to spot after you've been editing a while. The excessive detail, spammy sources, ref-bombing repeated removal of the COI template w/o consensus and general promotional-style combined with the fact that the artist and SPAs and a sock have edited the article, and also added photos of their work to other articles is indicative of this as well, (a form of image-spam). That is how I first became aware of this article and the artist. I apologize if that sounds critical, as she is an interesting artist, so it was a shame that the article stood out that way. Glad to see there is this effort to clean it up.
I'll try to find some time today and/or tomorrow to review the changes and and read thru everything here, but please be patient. Many thanks in advance! Netherzone (talk) 16:06, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I've done a read-thru of the the article for form/format (have not yet checked the sources, nor the quality thereof). IMO, there are still issues that need attention. I can go ahead and make the changes if there are no objections. Here are my thoughts; feedback is welcome:
  • Reduce size or remove the bold-italic subheadings that are the titles of projects/works.   Done
  • Both Regenerative Reliquary and The Heart of Evolution need further copy-editing for redundancy and tone. Also the former seems to be ref-bombed. They both could be shortened.   Partly done RR is ref-bombed and sourcing needs to be checked; HoE is sourced to an interview with her which is a primary source, a secondary source would be better.
  • In general the article seems to be ref-bombed; an artist's full CV/resume of things written about them is not necessary to include and only adds to the promotional quality. The very best sources should be used. This can be a later conversation.
  • There are multiple instances where certain terms are capitalized when they do not need to be.   Done
  • There are a few instances of euphemisms being used rather than using direct, strait-forward encyclopedic terms, for example "passed away" ---> died; "around the world" --> internationally, "boundaries of creation" --> ?(not sure what that is)?, etc.
  • Is she really the first artist to use AI? I don't know that that claim can be made in WikiVoice.
  • Awards, and Distinctions and a couple of the more prestigious Residencies can be combined. (Normally residencies are not included, they belong on the artist's personal website, or their gallery's website). They don't need to be 3 separate sections, as they are all honors.   Done and removed non-notable ones; renamed as section "Awards and honors"
  • The long laundry-list of exhibitions should be shortened to about 5 or 6 of the most prestigious, with an introductory sentence that mentions a selections of the countries where here work has been shown.   Done - moved to talk page, as the most important ones are already in the article.
  • There is a lot of redundancy in the article that should be cleaned up.
Hope that is helpful! Netherzone (talk) 20:06, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Great suggestions! I'm very concerned about the use of Wikipedia's voice. The reference-bombing is a problem that makes it difficult to determine weight and presentation. Some of the terminology seems inworld, some redundant. --Hipal (talk) 20:17, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Looks like at least some of the tags can be removed now that Netherzone has rewritten the article, but ref issue still remains. I updated the tag to reflect the current status of needing to weed out ref bombing and ref reliable sources 174.197.65.199 (talk) 10:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Article still requires cleaning up as it has been heavily edited by numerous SPAs and the artist. Please understand that maintenance tags are NOT a badge of shame, they are a way to notify unconnected editors to be aware of these issues, and ultimately are there for article improvement by unconnected editors. I'm also not sure that the "overly detailed" issues are entirely resolved. And the article is still heavily ref-bombed. I'll continue to work on it, but the references need to be gone thru one by one because many of them were being used to supposedly "support" content in the article but did not support the claims that were being made. This takes time. These are all indications of conflict of interest COI. This work takes time and analysis; please be patient. There is no deadline for these improvements to be made. Netherzone (talk) 13:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Long laundry list of Exhibitions

Latest comment: 1 year ago13 comments6 people in discussion

Moving this here (belongs on her website not on WP).

References

  1. ^ "Nova Rio Biennial of Art and Technology". stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  2. ^ world, STIR. "The upcoming 'Nova Rio Biennial of Art and Technology' is all set to take Rio by storm". www.stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  3. ^ "AI: The Next Evolution". Chimaera Gallery. Retrieved 22 July 2023.
  4. ^ Campbell, Clayton. "A Short Walk Through the Uncanny Valley of A.I. Art". Artblog. Retrieved 22 July 2023.
  5. ^ "Unknown Unknowns". 23 August 2022.
  6. ^ "The unknown: the new frontier of living". www.domusweb.it. Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  7. ^ Cite error: The named reference :23 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  8. ^ "PERFECT BODY | esc medien kunst labor".
  9. ^ "Kuwait's First IRL NFT Art Exhibition: WAGMI, Curated by Shurooq Amin". Contemporary Art Pla. Retrieved 2023-06-21.
  10. ^ "Astro FX: Art, Design & Technology".
  11. ^ a b "Artist Amy Karle's Inaugural Exhibition in the Metaverse". Keevo. Retrieved 11 May 2022.
  12. ^ "台北當代藝術館《蓋婭：基因、演算、智能設計與自動機 幻我；它境》14位國內外藝術家展現藝術與科技的碰撞展演，腦洞大開新體驗 首件展覽衍生性Nft作品2月19日上線發行".
  13. ^ ArtFacts. "Gaia.: Gene, algorithm, intelligent design, automata_A mirage self, The Other Realm | Exhibition". ArtFacts. Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  14. ^ Cite error: The named reference Taiwan was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  15. ^ Cite error: The named reference Taiwan2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  16. ^ "Future U". 6 August 2021.
  17. ^ "Am I Human to You?, KUBE, 19 March–3 October 2021". Jugendstilsenteret.no. Archived from the original on 20 April 2021. Retrieved 31 March 2021.
  18. ^ "Smithsonian Open Access". Smithsonian Institution. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  19. ^ "(UN)REAL | Science Gallery Rotterdam in het Erasmus MC". Unrealexhibition.com. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  20. ^ "Morphologies of Resurrection | Unreal — Science Gallery Rotterdam". Unrealexhibition.com.
  21. ^ "Igniting Creativity and Discovery where Science and Art Collide - Rotterdam". Ars.electronica.art. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  22. ^ "Ars Electronica X .art Domains - the Digital Launch You Don't Want to Miss". Art.art. 9 September 2020.
  23. ^ "Future and the Arts: AI, Robotics, Cities, Life - How Humanity Will Live Tomorrow". Mori.art.museum.
  24. ^ "The State of Us | What's on". Thelowery.com. Archived from the original on 20 April 2021. Retrieved 31 March 2021.
  25. ^ "AMY KARLE | 人体实时感应的图像会是什么样？" [AMY KARLE | What will the real-time sensing image of the human body look like?]. Mp.weixin.qq.com (in Chinese). Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  26. ^ Cite error: The named reference La Fabrique Du Vivant was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  27. ^ "Design: Expo "La Fabrique du vivant", le biodesign au Centre Pompidou". Paris-art.com. 17 March 2019.
  28. ^ Cite error: The named reference :24 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  29. ^ "La Fabrique du Vivant". Paris Art. 18 Feb 2019. Retrieved 2021-03-31.
  30. ^ "La Fabrique Du Vivant (The Fabric Of The Living)". Digicult | Digital Art, Design and Culture. 2019-02-04. Retrieved 2021-03-31.
  31. ^ "Future Humanity - Our Shared Planet". Ars.electronica.art.
  32. ^ Archived at Ghostarchive and the Wayback Machine: Future Humanity - Artist's Perspective. YouTube.
  33. ^ "新浪当代艺术丨【干货】第二届北京媒体艺术双年展（BMAB）论坛" [Sina Contemporary Art | [Dry information] The 2nd Beijing Media Art Biennale (BMAB) Forum]. Mp.weixin.qq.com (in Chinese). Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  34. ^ Cite error: The named reference aeti.jp was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  35. ^ "Award-Winning American Artist and Polish Colleagues to Present Arts Incubator Exhibition at Copernicus Science Center on May 11". Pl.usembassy.gov. 11 May 2018.
  36. ^ Cite error: The named reference ReferenceB was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  37. ^ "Humanity, technology join hands in Life/Art/Science/Tech Festival at SLAC". Arts.stanford.edu. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  38. ^ "YouFab2017 Prize-winning Works Exhibition". Youfab.info.
  39. ^ Cite error: The named reference archive.aec.at was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  40. ^ "ABC - 1244 by Destak Jornal". Issuu.com. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  41. ^ "18ª edição do FILE começa hoje na FIESP | Senac Moda Informação". Senacmoda.info. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  42. ^ "ARTE COMPUTACIONAL: UM CAMPO DE PESQUISA E CRIAÇÃO" (PDF). Repositorio.ufu.br. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
  43. ^ Pires, Rafaela (28 June 2018). Entre-telas: o designer de moda nas imediações da cultura maker e indústria 4.0 (PDF). Researchgate.net (Thesis). Retrieved 10 December 2021.

Netherzone (talk) 01:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

The major exhibitions should be described in paragraph format with references. 174.197.65.199 (talk) 09:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I found a paragraph about exhibitions in a previous version. I checked those refs and re-added those more notable exhibitions in paragraph format under their own section. If you review and think more need to be added or removed, go for it.174.197.65.199 (talk) 09:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
I strongly suggest proposing changes rather than adding them directly to the article, in order to avoid violating BLP's requirement to get consensus.
Please don't add any that don't have an independent, reliable source that meets the standards of BLP. If in doubt, ask here. --Hipal (talk) 17:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Here's the summary adapted from a previous version below. It is appropriate to mention key exhibitions for a blp on an artist, and museum publications are reliable sources for exhibitions and collections. Don't want to further ref bomb, strongest source should be selected for each. Would you do that and repost to the article @Hipal?
Karle's artworks have been exhibited at: Ars Electronica,[1][2][3] The Centre Pompidou,[4][5][6][7] FILE Electronic Language International Festival,[8] Mori Art Museum,[9][10] Museum of Contemporary Art,[11][12][13] Nova Rio Biennal,[14][15] Beijing Media Art Biennale,[16] The Smithsonian Institution,[17][18][19][20] and the Triennale di Milano.[21][22]
174.197.64.203 (talk) 06:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC) 174.197.64.203 (talk) 06:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
See WP:REFBOMB. Netherzone (talk) 15:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Exhibitions" (PDF). Ars Electronica. p. 44. Retrieved 19 August 2023.
  2. ^ "Ars Electronica: Vom Wachstum und einem rhythmischen Klassenzimmer". DER STANDARD (in Austrian German). Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  3. ^ Sergievski, Zoran (2017-09-15). "Ars Electronica 2017: Drohnendämmerung". The Gap (in German). Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  4. ^ "La Fabrique du vivant | EDITIONS HYX". www.editions-hyx.com. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  5. ^ Brayer, Marie-Ange (2018). "La Fabrique Du Vivant" (PDF). Code Couleur. pp. 20–23. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  6. ^ Digicult, Redazione (2019-02-04). "La Fabrique Du Vivant (The Fabric Of The Living) • Digicult | Digital Art, Design and Culture". Digicult | Digital Art, Design and Culture. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  7. ^ "Behind 'La fabrique du Vivant' at Centre Pompidou Paris". 2019-02-18. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  8. ^ ArtFacts. "FILE 2017 | Exhibition". ArtFacts. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  9. ^ world, STIR. "The future through art at Mori Art Museum, Tokyo". www.stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  10. ^ "Creating the Future". Tokyo Art Beat. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  11. ^ ArtFacts. "Gaia.: Gene, algorithm, intelligent design, automata_A mirage self, The Other Realm | Exhibition". ArtFacts. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  12. ^ "Mutual Art". 2023-10-06. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  13. ^ "台北當代藝術館《蓋婭：基因、演算、智能設計與自動機 幻我；它境》14位國內外藝術家展現藝術與科技的碰撞展演，腦洞大開新體驗 首件展覽衍生性NFT作品2月19日上線發行". 非池中藝術網. Retrieved 2023-10-05.
  14. ^ designboom, fernanda carranza I. (2023-09-12). "arte y tecnología se combinan para la primer bienal nova río en brasil". designboom | revista de arquitectura y diseño (in Spanish). Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  15. ^ world, STIR. "Nova Rio Biennial of Art and Technology". www.stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  16. ^ "新浪当代艺术丨【干货】第二届北京媒体艺术双年展（BMAB）论坛". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-10-05.
  17. ^ Magazine, Smithsonian; Wu, Katherine J. "Smithsonian Releases 2.8 Million Images Into Public Domain". Smithsonian Magazine. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  18. ^ "IMPACT | Vol. 6 | No. 1 by Your IMPACT | Your Smithsonian - Issuu". issuu.com. 2020-02-03. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  19. ^ Institution, Smithsonian. "Smithsonian Open Access". Smithsonian Institution. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  20. ^ Han, Gregory (2020-04-06). "Futurist Amy Karle Unlocks the Potential of Humanity's Future". Design Milk. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  21. ^ "The unknown: the new frontier of living". www.domusweb.it. Retrieved 2023-08-12.
  22. ^ ArtFacts. "La Triennale di Milano | Institution". ArtFacts. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
174, thanks but the sources need to be analyzed by an unconnected editor - the content you are asking to be restored is still filled with unacceptable ref-bombing. Netherzone (talk) 13:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Entries need removal because their sources are poor, so that won't work. I suggest removing all non-independent sources, and any that are announcements. --Hipal (talk) 16:04, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Hipal Which sources on this section are non-independent and announcements and need to be removed, and which are blp appropriate to use? 174.198.7.160 (talk) 10:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

If you don't know, we're not going to make any progress. I've spent far too much time on this already. --Hipal (talk) 17:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Hipal has been reverting edits about exhibitions and pointing to discuss it on the talk page however when editors discussed it here on the talk page and asked Hipal to review, Hipal did not offer constructive feedback and instead stated "If you don't know, we're not going to make any progress. I've spent far too much time on this already."
Today, I worked on the exhibitions that Hipal has reverted on various occasions. I kept the valid sources and replaced others to ensure that all are independent, removed exhibitions that were poorly sourced, and removed problematic text. Hipal reverted with edit summary "rv exhibits per talk" but added no further mention about it here. Hipal reverted and didn't seem to check it.
I suggest that the exhibitions section be thoroughly reviewed by unaffiliated editors as Hipal has shown reluctance in evaluating the sources and providing constructive feedback. It appears that their level of investment in this page may be hindering an objective assessment. The sources need to be analyzed by an unconnected, unaffiliated editors. I also request that Hipal's affiliation with this page be analyzed. 169.229.6.164 (talk) 23:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Please follow WP:TALK and WP:FOC.
Here's your proposal:
Extended content

Karle's artworks have been exhibited in Ars Electronica, Austria,[1][2] Beijing Media Art Biennale, China,[3][4] The Centre Pompidou, France, [5][6] Mori Art Museum, Japan,[7][8] Museum of Contemporary Art Taipei, Taiwan,[9] Nova Rio Biennale, Brazil,[10][11] The Smithsonian Institution, United States of America,[12][13][14] and the Triennale di Milano, Italy.[15]

References

  1. ^ "Ars Electronica: Vom Wachstum und einem rhythmischen Klassenzimmer". DER STANDARD (in Austrian German). Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  2. ^ Sergievski, Zoran (2017-09-15). "Ars Electronica 2017: Drohnendämmerung". The Gap (in German). Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  3. ^ "新浪当代艺术丨【干货】第二届北京媒体艺术双年展（BMAB）论坛". Weixin Official Accounts Platform. Retrieved 2023-10-05.
  4. ^ "评论档案 艺术档案". www.artda.cn. Retrieved 2023-10-20.
  5. ^ "La Fabrique du vivant | EDITIONS HYX". www.editions-hyx.com. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  6. ^ "Behind 'La fabrique du Vivant' at Centre Pompidou Paris". 2019-02-18. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  7. ^ "Creating the Future". Tokyo Art Beat. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  8. ^ world, STIR. "The future through art at Mori Art Museum, Tokyo". www.stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  9. ^ "台北當代藝術館《蓋婭：基因、演算、智能設計與自動機 幻我；它境》14位國內外藝術家展現藝術與科技的碰撞展演，腦洞大開新體驗 首件展覽衍生性NFT作品2月19日上線發行". 非池中藝術網. Retrieved 2023-10-05.
  10. ^ designboom, fernanda carranza I. (2023-09-12). "arte y tecnología se combinan para la primer bienal nova río en brasil". designboom | revista de arquitectura y diseño (in Spanish). Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  11. ^ world, STIR. "Nova Rio Biennial of Art and Technology". www.stirworld.com. Retrieved 2023-09-19.
  12. ^ Magazine, Smithsonian; Wu, Katherine J. "Smithsonian Releases 2.8 Million Images Into Public Domain". Smithsonian Magazine. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  13. ^ Barrett, Brian. "The Smithsonian Puts 2.8 Million Images in the Public Domain". Wired. ISSN 1059-1028. Retrieved 2023-10-20.
  14. ^ Han, Gregory (2020-04-06). "Futurist Amy Karle Unlocks the Potential of Humanity's Future". Design Milk. Retrieved 2023-10-06.
  15. ^ "The unknown: the new frontier of living". www.domusweb.it. Retrieved 2023-08-12.
Could you please explain what changes you made from the 6 Oct version discussed above?
I looked it over, found it very similar, and found references that looked too much like announcements. --Hipal (talk) 02:25, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
For reference: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_417#Are_these_sources_reliable_for_BLP? --Hipal (talk) 18:40, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

WiG brief review

Latest comment: 1 year ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Posting in response to the request at WIG. I'm sorry to say that this is far from GA standards at the moment, and promotionalism is the most serious concern. The article needs a complete overhaul, and someone without a connection to the subject should do it. I suggest beginning by identifying sources with intellectually independent content, and using those to frame a brief draft; and then filling in only the most essential biographical detail with other sources. This may require a considerable shortening of the article, but a start-class page that is dispassionately written is far superior to a lengthy puff-piece, which this remains despite the good-faith effort put into it. Pruning will also help with tone issues, which are most obvious in the bits sourced to non-independent sources; but otherwise, I suggest reviewing usage of adjectives and adverbs in particular, and removing all that don't directly contribute to reader understanding. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:43, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Vanamonde93, thank you for this, and I agree with you it needs an overhaul, and is nowhere near GA status. @Hipal had pinged me about the COI/promo/advert issues (I had placed the COI tag some time ago), and I began doing some cleaning up today. I wrote up a checklist of items that need work in the section above called Talk:Amy Karle#Article needs to be rewritten. This checklist is by no means complete. I agree 100% that it would help if the article was pruned back to a short article, and all of the superfluous sourcing/ref-bombing (primary, blogs, press releases, etc.) trimmed. Netherzone (talk) 01:00, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your review @Vanamonde93 and for your checklist and updates @Netherzone. The review process and your checklist are very helpful, as is the information and discussions with the meetup.
The article still needs a lot of work and is not ready for a GA nomination next week. Before Netherzone, I had tried to update it to GA standards using Wikipedia guidelines. I made good faith edits to improve, but it seems the article was in too bad of shape before I arrived.
I would still like to help improve the article and eventually get it to GA status. Netherzone, I see you referred to a "last good version": [here] from before COI/promo/advert issues. I'd like to draw from this version to replace some of the removed content. The areas that I would like to review and re-add are the sections on: Residencies, Awards, and "The Heart of Evolution" in the Major Works section, and any other works were included in the "last good version". I'd double check all info, sources, and make any necessary updates before re-adding. What do you think about this? I would appreciate your advice and suggestions. Asking first and proceeding cautiously here since there is a lot going on with this page! LWu22 (talk) 20:45, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Karle is an interesting artist, however the article still has several low-quality sources, and primary sources which should be cleaned up, and there is the matter of REFBOMBING to address. The article has a long history of COI editing, PR, promotional/advertorial tone and content. Not all of that is cleaned up. WP policy states that the encyclopedia is not an appropriate place for promotion. See WP:PROMOTION, in particular #4 on Self-promotion, and #5 on Advertising, marketing, publicity, or public relations. It sounds like a lot of what you want to add back belongs on her personal website, not in an encyclopedia article. I would suggest being patient while unconnected volunteer editors proceed with clean up as their time is limited. There is no deadline. Netherzone (talk) 15:46, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
The timeframe I referred to is from the edit-a-thon, I was in no way trying to impose that on other editors.
The content that I was referring to restoring was from what @Netherzone had referred to as a "last good version" from "before COI/promo/advert issues". From wiki BLP outlines and guidelines it appears that including major artworks, shows, residencies, and awards like how they were included on that "last good version" is standard to describe what the person does and has accomplished as long as they are notable, backed up by non-promotional quality secondary references, and are not in the long list like below. Is that correct?
From that version it seems like a big part of the artists way of working is participating in residencies and exhibiting but now that appears to have been completely removed. I would appreciate clarification on if these sections should be included for this and other pages that I edit. I am also an unconnected volunteer editor (feel free to do a checkuser) I don't need to edit this page if you don't want me to. I'd like to understand why these categories are allowed and included on other GA articles of similar people like Neri Oxman but not here when following same rules, and what should be included on articles like both of theirs. For example, there is a large section on Oxman's work as a professor, but not as Karle's work as a resident, though both appear to be a significant part of how they work from sources on them. Thank you in advance for your clarity and not biting the newcomer. LWu22 (talk) 21:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
I also asked about it here under Good article question to ensure the articles are accurate. I'm working towards GA status overall in all my editing. LWu22 (talk) 21:32, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

WiG brief review

Latest comment: 1 year ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Posting in response to the request at WIG. I'm sorry to say that this is far from GA standards at the moment, and promotionalism is the most serious concern. The article needs a complete overhaul, and someone without a connection to the subject should do it. I suggest beginning by identifying sources with intellectually independent content, and using those to frame a brief draft; and then filling in only the most essential biographical detail with other sources. This may require a considerable shortening of the article, but a start-class page that is dispassionately written is far superior to a lengthy puff-piece, which this remains despite the good-faith effort put into it. Pruning will also help with tone issues, which are most obvious in the bits sourced to non-independent sources; but otherwise, I suggest reviewing usage of adjectives and adverbs in particular, and removing all that don't directly contribute to reader understanding. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:43, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Vanamonde93, thank you for this, and I agree with you it needs an overhaul, and is nowhere near GA status. @Hipal had pinged me about the COI/promo/advert issues (I had placed the COI tag some time ago), and I began doing some cleaning up today. I wrote up a checklist of items that need work in the section above called Talk:Amy Karle#Article needs to be rewritten. This checklist is by no means complete. I agree 100% that it would help if the article was pruned back to a short article, and all of the superfluous sourcing/ref-bombing (primary, blogs, press releases, etc.) trimmed. Netherzone (talk) 01:00, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your review @Vanamonde93 and for your checklist and updates @Netherzone. The review process and your checklist are very helpful, as is the information and discussions with the meetup.
The article still needs a lot of work and is not ready for a GA nomination next week. Before Netherzone, I had tried to update it to GA standards using Wikipedia guidelines. I made good faith edits to improve, but it seems the article was in too bad of shape before I arrived.
I would still like to help improve the article and eventually get it to GA status. Netherzone, I see you referred to a "last good version": [here] from before COI/promo/advert issues. I'd like to draw from this version to replace some of the removed content. The areas that I would like to review and re-add are the sections on: Residencies, Awards, and "The Heart of Evolution" in the Major Works section, and any other works were included in the "last good version". I'd double check all info, sources, and make any necessary updates before re-adding. What do you think about this? I would appreciate your advice and suggestions. Asking first and proceeding cautiously here since there is a lot going on with this page! LWu22 (talk) 20:45, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Karle is an interesting artist, however the article still has several low-quality sources, and primary sources which should be cleaned up, and there is the matter of REFBOMBING to address. The article has a long history of COI editing, PR, promotional/advertorial tone and content. Not all of that is cleaned up. WP policy states that the encyclopedia is not an appropriate place for promotion. See WP:PROMOTION, in particular #4 on Self-promotion, and #5 on Advertising, marketing, publicity, or public relations. It sounds like a lot of what you want to add back belongs on her personal website, not in an encyclopedia article. I would suggest being patient while unconnected volunteer editors proceed with clean up as their time is limited. There is no deadline. Netherzone (talk) 15:46, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
The timeframe I referred to is from the edit-a-thon, I was in no way trying to impose that on other editors.
The content that I was referring to restoring was from what @Netherzone had referred to as a "last good version" from "before COI/promo/advert issues". From wiki BLP outlines and guidelines it appears that including major artworks, shows, residencies, and awards like how they were included on that "last good version" is standard to describe what the person does and has accomplished as long as they are notable, backed up by non-promotional quality secondary references, and are not in the long list like below. Is that correct?
From that version it seems like a big part of the artists way of working is participating in residencies and exhibiting but now that appears to have been completely removed. I would appreciate clarification on if these sections should be included for this and other pages that I edit. I am also an unconnected volunteer editor (feel free to do a checkuser) I don't need to edit this page if you don't want me to. I'd like to understand why these categories are allowed and included on other GA articles of similar people like Neri Oxman but not here when following same rules, and what should be included on articles like both of theirs. For example, there is a large section on Oxman's work as a professor, but not as Karle's work as a resident, though both appear to be a significant part of how they work from sources on them. Thank you in advance for your clarity and not biting the newcomer. LWu22 (talk) 21:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
I also asked about it here under Good article question to ensure the articles are accurate. I'm working towards GA status overall in all my editing. LWu22 (talk) 21:32, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
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