Talk:Altan Khan of the Khalkha

What a mess !!

Why is the robot messing around redirecting things here and there?? Gantuya eng (talk) 05:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Talk from Altan Khan Sholi Ubashi

"In 1662 Erinchin killed Jasaghtu Khan to expand into central Khalkha probably because Russia began to develop another trade route. He was attacked by Tösiyetü Khan (Chaghun Dorji) and fled northwestward. In 1667 he was captured by Sengge, Dzungar chief and was handed over to Jasaghtu Khan."

Erinchin killed Jasaghtu, then Erinchin became prisoner of Jasaghtu. Jasaghtu was dead but existed further as Ghost or Undead or what?

Zasagt Khan is just a title. Like King of France or Dalai Lama.Yaan 13:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Questions for more understanding

Did Oirats inhabit the regions of the Kobdo river and Uvs lake late 16th and early 17th centuries? Didn't they live farther west in the regions of the river Ili, mountains Tarbagatai, river Irtysh? Altan Khan of Tumet defeated the Torgouts on the river Irtysh, not somewhere around Kobdo/Uvs. Isn't the Uvs lake region one of the original domains of Altyn Khan of Khotogoid? Gantuya eng (talk) 12:39, 11 November 2009 (UTC) ////source for this is Grousset, page 512: 'Shului Ubasha khongtaiji, who around 1609 had occupied the heart of the former Oirat realm, in the region of the Kirgis Nor and the Ubsa Nor, whence he drove back the Oirat to the Black Irtysh and Tarbagatai (1620,1623).' I have no way to check his accuracy.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, I tried to find it online, but page 512 isn't available online. I know another book on Oirats, I'll try to find relevant information in it when I find that book. Gantuya eng (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Sain Noyan Khanate

An editor removed this from the list of Khanates on the grounds that it is too early. According to Grousset, page 512,'Geresandza's grandson Tumengken founded the Khanate of Sain Noyan at the headwaters of the Orkhon, on the upper Ongkin and on the Selenga. Tumengken's brother Abatai was the progenitor of the Tushetu khans, whose khanate, separated from Sain Noyan by the Orkhon ...etc,'. According to Bruce Mancall, 'Russia and China: their dipolmatic relations to 1728', page 247 says that Tsereng was a Manchu negotiator at the Treaty of Kyakhta. Brief biography (a Khalka of the Borjigit clan, etc), and then 'Between 1715 and 1725 Tsereng participated in the struggle with the Jungars, serving with such distinction that in 1725 he was ordered to organize his relatives into a new khanate, known as Sain Noin. This made him independent of the Tushetu-khan.' This sounds like two khanates with the same name, but I am hardly an expert. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 15:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I see. That may be some confusion. Let's not mention Sain Noyan Khan for the time being till we find more sources to clarify. There should be a book "Khalkha Tobciyan" (Халх товчоо) by Gongor (?), it might tell something. Gantuya eng (talk) 02:55, 15 November 2009 (UTC)