Talk:All In (2023)

Declaring the difference between Football and Soccer

There has been some debate on how soccer should be categorized. Now due to the fact that AEW is an American company it should be classified as soccer. However there is some debate on the matter due to the fact that the UK will be participating. So I think the best solution is a note at the top of the page and address it a Soccer from then on OlifanofmrTennant (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Where Is confirmation of this event being broadcast?

Someone has described this event as a PPV, but there has been no announcement as to what kind of broadcast it will be 2A00:23C8:D9C:A601:4092:DE1B:4DC2:7661 (talk) 14:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Unconfirmed matches

To make our jobs easier, please feel free to use box the below as scratch space for listing matches that haven't been officially confirmed yet, so when they're confirmed we can just copy and paste into the matches section.

Sceptre (talk) 01:13, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The attendance

The ammount of empty seats and tarps confirm that the stadium isnt 90% full. i suggest that the attendance should be marked as disputed until its confirmed by multiple sources. [1]https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnc2m0cjg1pkb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D960%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D750c0b02ecd63ee7f320080ad2ff42a634e06eb5 DeixKing (talk) 20:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

In general, I think it’s highly dubious to rely solely on one source (Meltzer) for the WrestleMania III figure. All of the sources for the “dispute” go back to him. Moreover, I think it’s questionable to take AEW’s claim at face value while disputing every show WWE has claimed to have drawn more people to. I feel like the true attendance record is unlikely to ever be known given the nature of the wrestling business. 75.128.74.91 (talk) 21:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. There will be audited attendance from multiple sources soon WaimiriMaina (talk) 22:59, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

This is WP:OR. We only list it as disputed if independent reliable sources call it such. — Czello ^(music) 23:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Also, it's a bit disingenuous to use a picture of the hard-cam side during the opening match to argue that the attendance wasn't really 81,000. Fury vs. Whyte used a similar set-up and drew 94,000, so it's probably fair to assume that the number of people on the pitch off-set the empty/tarped off seats.

Additionally – and I accept this is likewise OR – but as someone who was in attendance, from where I was sitting, the only parts that weren't mostly full was the second-level block directly behind hard cam. Most other parts of the stadium were packed by about 7pm. Sceptre (talk) 07:46, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

• Do we have an article that could be linked inline for the odd definition of "attendance" that seems to be common in the wrestling world? I work in live events quite often (but not in professional wrestling, admittedly) and in my line of work "attendance" is the number of guests who attend the event. The number of tickets sold is also an important number, but it's not attendance. If I sell 800 tickets to an event and 300 people show up, my attendance is 300. If what we have is a source claiming an "attendance" figure based on the organizer's press material, we should be describing this as a "claimed" attendance number, or if there's concern about that being a weasel word then we should just describe the figure as the figure they're reporting, which is not attendance but ticket sales. It's just reporting the situation as it is, and if independent auditing is expected later then we can update the article when better sources are available.

Anyway I'm probably not going to watch this, there's some serious gatekeeping happening and I have too much going on to try to break that down. Good luck. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:27, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Current consensus is to only report it as disputed if independent sources disagree with the official number (otherwise almost every event would be disputed). I believe approx 84k tickets were sold, separate to the actual attendance of 81k. — Czello ^(music) 21:13, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Also, even if Khan massaged the numbers to just get over the Mania 32/Mania III/Summerslam 1992 figures, I can say with absolute certainty that 67,125 definitely wasn't the figure for All In. As I mentioned above, except for the seats directly behind hard cam, most available seats from my vantage point were filled. Also, 67,125 is just below the true attendance of either night of WrestleMania 39; my suspicion is that somebody made up that figure and people who are too invested in the pissing contest on WWE's side are taking the number as gospel. (Honestly, even Triple H and Tony Khan aren't sniping at each other this bad!)

Also, like Czello says, I'm a bit wary that trying to prove the lack of a dispute over the figures is like asking to prove a negative. The only numbers that are up for serious dispute are for WWE's stadium shows; in these cases, we normally get a more accurate estimate from someone like Dave Meltzer in the next WON. But as far as I can tell from his Twitter, Meltzer seems to agree that this figure isn't as massaged as WWE's numbers, if they were at all. Sceptre (talk) 21:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Further to this, on today’s WOR, Meltzer and Alvarez basically ran down the numbers and said 81,035 paid, 84,000 with comps, 90,000 all in the building is correct. Not a sell-out – IIRC, the configuration was for 91,000 tickets – but they still legitimately broke the record. Sceptre (talk) 14:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Boy were they wrong 50.39.134.2 (talk) 05:27, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

As a final bit of sourcing, PWInsider have also confirmed that the announced attendance is completely accurate.[2] So I think that puts to rest any claims of it being disputed. — Czello ^(music) 09:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

This claim aged well. Kakarott (talk) 22:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

If it's wrong, it's wrong and we change it. That's how Wikipedia works: from sources. The tickets sold is accurate, but as the turnstile information has only just released we update it with the latest figures. — Czello ^(music) 08:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

PWInsider were wrong. So I think that puts to rest your claims Wikisneediaformerlychuckia (talk) 23:14, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Listed attendance

To keep consistent with other Wikipedia articles that list total fans in attendance (paid + comps), I propose the attendance number be changed to 84,000+, with a note that paid attendance was 81,035.

This would be consistent, for instance, with the Wrestlemania 32 page, which list the total (paid + comp attendance), not the paid attendance in the infobox.

Note that paid + comp attendance is different than the "for entertainment purposes" mythical number and the "counting the people who sell tickets" type of numbers (the latter would be ~90,000 for All In). Drickfire (talk) 17:10, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Wikipedia should not be used a vanity press, so when verifiable data is available - such as the cited local government data around the actual attendance, this should be used above anything else. The article makes note of the number of tickets sold, so the headline should be the actual attendance figure with mention of other company supplied metrics such as tickets sold. Rob Riot UK (talk) 06:24, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

paid attendance

paid attendance would mean people who bought a ticket and showed up. thats within the 71,000. all the 82,000 includes is tickets sold. so scalpers unable to sell their scalped tickets and those who didnt end up showing up. 'paid 82,000' does not make sense. tony's claims make no sense. 9000 sold tickets went unused.Muur (talk) 06:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Attendance issues

I think next time something like this happens, you find someone neutral to gatekeep the attendance thing. (Personal attack removed) were on here vehemently defending that 81k number as fact and true when it was disputed off the bat. The plain fact is AEW set no records, yet contributors on here regarded that number as fact with zero verification, just "trust the biased source, bro" 2600:100E:B081:C4A4:0:47:88B9:2401 (talk) 12:42, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Neutrality was using the 82k number as all independent sources pointed to it being correct at the time; it wasn't disputed by any reliable sources. It's a bad faith assumption to accuse anyone using it doing so for partisan reasons. Also please do not make personal attacks to other editors. — Czello ^(music) 12:56, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

As you were told over and over, there was never an independent source for the 81,000 number. 50.39.134.2 (talk) 15:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there were. PWInsider and WON are both considered independent. — Czello ^(music) 15:25, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

They both attributed AEW as their source for the numbers. 50.39.134.2 (talk) 15:36, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

wikipedia has a big aew issue. believing everything no matter what and deciding that a guy leaving for aew should have his page renamed upon his debut whilst those going to wwe have to wait years. if edge goes to aew under a new name dont be surprised when within a week of his debut a move request happens and it somehow gets through because of the high amount of anti wwe. people simply took tonys word for it deciding he didnt kayfabe attendance and honestly the way metlzer acted over this and other aew stuff he, and others, arent really a neutral source on things any moreMuur (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Not sure which articles you're referring to, there's normally long debates and a lot of resistance to changing names, and many still haven't. For example Sasha Banks still has her WWE name; W. Morrissey is still under an older name; Big Show has been with AEW for years and not had a name change; John Morrison's name isn't accurate. Ultimately the policy is WP:COMMONNAME, and there needs to be a demonstration that an article is ready for a renaming. — Czello ^(music) 07:59, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

This is the exact same method we apply to WWE (and every other company). — Czello ^(music) 07:08, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Well that's a completely different argument.

Was there independent verification of the 81,035 figure or not? 50.39.134.2 (talk) 08:01, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Okay, let me put it a different way. Was there independent verification of Payback (2023)'s 14,584 figure? Because that's the figure we're reporting (and the figure other sources report). The current consensus for our process is 1) go with the official number 2) unless it's disputed, at which point we go with independent sources. This is the exact process we follow for WWE, and it's what we've done for All In. — Czello ^(music) 08:07, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

No, there wasn't as far as I know.

Now was there independent verification for the 81,000 as you've claimed? 50.39.134.2 (talk) 14:20, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

To add to this, this is a direct quote from Meltzer.

"We do not have authenticity and verification of the paid number, the 81,035."

https://www.cagesideseats.com/aew/2023/9/14/23873593/aew-all-in-turnstile-count-paid-tickets-sold-record-attendance-tony-khan-number-wembley-stadium 50.39.134.2 (talk) 23:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2023

Attendance for this show has been confirmed by Chris Whyte - Director of Brent council’s environment and leisure department as 85,528. 84.69.164.120 (talk) 17:21, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Pinchme123 (talk) 00:50, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2023 (2)

The attendance has been announced by Brent City Council as 85,528 as seen in this link https://www.bodyslam.net/2023/09/27/local-london-council-says-aew-all-in-attendance-was-85528/ 2A04:4A43:88CF:F575:8015:3914:58E:AA42 (talk) 17:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

all it shows is an email, whos to say this isnt his mate sending him an email? the source is 'random guy on facebook'. the people talking about it on reddit even say they cant find evidence of this requestMuur (talk) 19:47, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

I'd imagine that the existence of the FOI request could be verified either way by a phone call or by using WhatDoTheyKnow to request they re-publish the response in a more public setting. Sceptre (talk) 22:17, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

For the time being it seems it's much too soon for these new figures to be incorporated. We'll have to wait for additional verification or reliable sourcing in the way Sceptre describes. — Czello ^(music) 22:33, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

https://www.ringsidenews.com/2023/09/28/fake-insider-email-exposed-for-spreading-misinformation-about-aew-all-in-london-attendance/ seems its confirmed as fake numbersMuur (talk) 21:47, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Given the discussion here, I'm marking this as responded-to. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 00:51, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2023

78.86.5.122 (talk) 05:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Aew all in attendance was 85,528 source from Brent council the local government around wembley

 Not done for now: See above conversation — Czello ^(music) 06:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

This has been confirmed to be inaccurate 125.238.239.171 (talk) 09:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2023

Change attendance: 81,035 to 72,265

All archived information requests from local govt have returned that number, as has wresting economist Brandon Thurston https://wrestlenomics.com/2023/09/28/aew-all-in-attendance-confusion/amp/

Any 81 or 85 thousand number reflects tickets sold/distributed as per the owner of AEW, not attendance, see https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1709770602079481867 125.238.239.171 (talk) 09:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

 Already done by User112889. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 00:53, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2024

Change to Talksport please 86.191.233.190 (talk) 15:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done per WP:NOTBROKEN, as long as the link is a valid redirect, the change is not necessary.

This IP address has been blocked for disruptive editing and there are messages on that talk page relating to this notbroken issue. Edits made today by the IP have been reverted as well. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)