Talk:Abortion law in the United States by state/Archive 1

Archive 1

Utah miscarriage bill

Might want to add this to the article; just search for "Utah miscarriage" on Google News. Sceptre ^(talk) 07:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

need reference - biased

The article currently reads "In comparison to other developed countries, the procedure is more available in the United States in terms of how late the abortion can legally be performed." Such a statement requires a reference - there is none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.109.183 (talk) 13:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

NARAL rating

It seems POV to include a partisan rating in with all of the information about these state laws. We could either include a similar pro-life group or include neither. My preference would be to include neither and just talk about the laws. Anyone else have any thoughts? Juno (talk) 00:06, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes. WP:BIASed. Throw out. NARAL is just one organization. There are hundreds, so it may be WP:TRIVIA as well. What laws are in affect where are more important.

A practical point: I could not see the end of this table on my screen (which is enlarged, I confess). So it was "off the end" and transparent to me. Tables shouldn't contain too many columns. That one seems to. Student7 (talk) 21:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Citations/references to NARAL Pro-Choice America page don't (currently) contain any information

The percentages of abortion providers per county in the state table all go to the state-specific pages on the NARAL Pro-Choice America website, but all of these pages simply say "Information on the position of the state government and on state laws will be available soon." At the time of writing, these are not providing any kind of figures or information whatsoever. Perhaps this is temporary if they are revamping their website or something. ZomgPancakes (talk) 22:18, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

"% of Counties Without Provider" in State table

Considering the number of counties per state vary and are not comparable between states, it seems rather misleading to report on the number of providers as a percentage per county. In Connecticut the figure is lowest (13% without a provider), but they have just 8 counties in the entire state, so having just 7 providers across 7 counties leaves 1 county (12.5%, rounded to 13%) without a provider. In Nebraska the figure is at 97% without a provider, but they have 93 counties, so they have 3 counties with a provider and 90 without. This doesn't say anything about how many providers they even have in those 3 counties or how much of their population they can serve. Wouldn't it be more useful to report it as providers per capita? ZomgPancakes (talk) 22:39, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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NARAL citations not enough on their own

Not only is the NARAL citation not returning anything valauble but it's also incredibly biased. Does anyone know of any official/more neutral stats that may be better? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pseudoskepsis (talk • contribs) 13:43, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

United States abortion laws

Do you think it is necessary to include the abortion laws of other countries in the article? For me it took away from the main topic of abortion in the United States. Njstork (talk) 19:14, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

U.S. territories

The 5 inhabited U.S. territories (American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands) are not mentioned anywhere in this article. Is abortion legal in American Samoa? Is there a trigger law on abortion in Puerto Rico? What is the status of abortion in Guam? The Northern Mariana Islands has its own Wikipedia article on this issue: Abortion in the Northern Mariana Islands. The 5 inhabited territories should be added to the tables, and the title of the article should be moved to "Abortion in the United States by state and territory". LumaP15 (talk) 09:23, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

expired temporary ban

When a temporary ban expires, the law is simply in effect. What explanation is needed? 24.143.11.227 (talk) 14:40, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Oregon laws

Here is a piece of news: http://www.washingtontimes.com, The Washington Times. "Kate Brown signs bill making Oregon first to offer free abortions for all, including illegal aliens". The Washington Times. Retrieved 19 May 2019. {{cite news}}: External link in |last1= (help) --Hienafant (talk) 12:56, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Edits in tables re limits on abortion

Here I've WP:BOLDly inserted ping-pong convenience links between entries in the Bans of abortion table which have a Yes in the Illegal with limits column (I've also inserted a No in that column for Nevada, where that cell was blank) and corresponding entries in the Limits on abortion table. Some of these links don't make sense to me (e.g., California, which doesn't detail any limits in the second table), but I didn't spend any time trying to figure out why that was.

Feel free to improve or revert, as appropriate. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:36, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Is the table on bans and limits on abortion up to date, considering legislation of recent months? If not, it should be updated.Dogru144 (talk) 23:29, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Counseling laws map

The symbols on the shaded states of the counseling laws map need explaining.Dogru144 (talk) 00:34, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

First paragraph appears to state that abortion is illegal in Alabama. I am fairly sure that this is false.

(The relevant statute does not go into effect until November 2019, and will likely have its enforcement enjoined before then. Similar bills (with similar delays) have been enacted in several other states.)

2601:5CC:8201:E6B:A97E:63AA:DFF9:2187 (talk) 22:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

That appears to have been vandalism, and I've reverted it. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abortion_in_the_United_States_by_state&type=revision&diff=898181578&oldid=897886160. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:35, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Accessibility issue: Tables are missing some of the information that can be found in map images

There is some information in the map images on this page and on Abortion in the United States which is not in the table, making this information harder to obtain for blind people, who would have to click through to each individual state to gain this information. It would be better if this information were added to one of the tables on this page: - Current time limit for states expected to have a 6-8 week time limit starting in 2020 (table only shows future limit) - Nature of which types of abortions were legal (table only shows yes/no) - Nature of ultrasound requirements - Nature of parental notifications and consents required - All information from map - All information from map - All information from map

Thisisnotatest (talk) 08:06, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

State by state summaries

I happened to look at this article today and I fixed a couple of problems in the sections for individual states after looking at detail articles for the info. It strikes me that this article would be better without the long list of state-by-state sections and simply clarifying the current abortion situation for individual states as detailed in the wikilinked {{main article}} in the table, specifying an {{as of}} date there, and leaving expansion of the legislative history and other details to that wikilinked main article (per WP:SS). Table notes could be given for states with exceptional situations. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Removed the unsourced map

I removed the unsourced map. It does not provide any sources at all and also it is inaccurate. At several states it states "indicates a limit at 6–8 weeks is expected to come into effect", "indicates a ban on abortion is expected to come into effect", but such laws are likely going to be struck down by courts (as they have been in the past, since such laws have been routinely introduced for years, and then struck down by courts). The only way such laws would come into force is if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade/Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Currently, according to the Supreme Court, a state cannot impose a law which places legal restrictions imposing an undue burden for "the purpose or effect of placing a substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion of a nonviable fetus", according to Planned Parenthood v. Casey. If/when the Supreme Court changes that ruling, a map with the 6-8 weeks bans will be created, but right now it is out of place, since these are simply hypothetical restricts that are not and cannot be in effect without a Supreme Court decision. 2A02:2F01:5CFF:FFFF:0:0:50C:3058 (talk) 03:50, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

What about new york?

Why is New York not discussed here? THEMlCK (talk) 20:59, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

"currently" and WP:DATED

I happened to notice the word "currently" in categorizations on some of the map legends in this article. The particular item which caught my eye was "Waiting period law currently enjoined" for Florida in the "Mandatory waiting period laws in the US" figure. I see on the image description page that the current version of that image was uploaded in January 2018, and I see here that the status of that has apparently fluctuated since then, making the info in this article regarding that sometimes valid and sometimes not over that time span. I'm guessing that other maps shown it this article have similar problems; all the maps imply currency, but several of the map legends explicitly include the problematic word "currently". Where possible, I suggest removal of that word from the map legends and from the overall article. (similar concerns would apply separately to the text of the legends in the map image files themselves).

The only appearance of the word "currently" in the article prose is supported by a cite of this outside map as a supporting source. That map is undated but, going by this, appears to date back at least as far as January of 2014. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 14:09, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

I agree, we should remove the currently's and have each map VERY clearly state what year the data is from. ---Avatar317^(talk) 22:22, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

New York not included in table of contents

It seems as though whoever made the sections of the article stopped at the 50th entry, however since the District of Columbia is also included in the list, it means there are only 49 states, the last one being New York. Someone should add New York to the table of contents and add some info or link to the main article if there is one. 142.177.154.200 (talk) 17:04, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for noticing, and suggesting it. FYI, this abortion article is not locked, so you as an unregistered IP editor could have done addition that yourself. ---Avatar317^(talk) 02:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 20 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kimiesha.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2021 and 18 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): E.Michelle.70. Peer reviewers: ClassyIam.

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Evidence of abortion enumerated in state constitutions?

I want to start this off by saying I am certain that our section that lists which states have the right to an abortion codified in their state constitutions is at least partially incorrect. I might even posit that it is completely incorrect. I understand we have a reference in the form of NARAL Pro-Choice America's own PDF document, but we can know by today's news of California only just now starting their push to enter it into their state constitution (https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/02/california-announces-constitutional-amendment-protecting-right-to-choose/) that at the very least, California's status as a "Yes" is completely incorrect. Other news confirms Vermont is also just now in the works on a similar amendment (https://www.necn.com/news/local/with-roe-v-wade-in-limbo-vt-voters-to-decide-reproductive-liberty-amendment/2731160/) that could come as soon as Fall 2022. I CTRL+F'd my way through New Jersey's state constitution (njleg.state.nj.us/constitution) as well as Alaska's (https://ltgov.alaska.gov/information/alaskas-constitution/) in search of "abortion", "woman", "women", "born", "child", "24 weeks", "pregnancy", and other terms and found no such mention of the explicit protection of the right to an abortion. Generic civil rights protections are enumerated, but this cannot possibly be construed as protection, can it? I can't find the list I had yesterday, but a separate one even had different states on it - including New York, whose constitution I also went through in depth and could find no indication of the right (though Cuomo expressed a desire for it in 2019).

Can we please have an update on this? We could simply remove that column of the table, since as far as I know, it is likely entirely false. 68.199.156.27 (talk) 01:30, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

@68.199.156.27 it should at least have "citation needed" 2601:600:8780:4C00:E1EF:9226:724F:781 (talk) 00:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely, but in the interim, California needs to be marked as a No, which in itself invalidates the source used for all the others. 68.199.156.27 (talk)68.199.156.27 (talk) 23:56, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Territories

Where is the information of the territories? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.120.37.254 (talk) 20:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

If you’re referring to the five inhabited unincorporated U.S. territories, they each have their own articles. Apparently they can’t be listed here because they aren’t states, but there are pages titled “Abortion in (whichever of the five territories you’re looking for)” for all of them. VictimOfEntropy (talk) 00:29, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Well, they should then just be linked/referenced under "see also/further reading". Of course there are links to them in the navi-bar, but those are not immediately showing up in a ctrl-F search over the page. --Enyavar (talk) 11:38, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Language use

"Fetal heartbeat" (or similar) within this page seems to be used incorrectly; see Talk:Six-week abortion ban#Regarding the recent page change. I am not an expert on the subject, so I welcome other opinions on the topic. --QueenofBithynia (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Main map

I'm not sure if anyone else is having issues with the main map, but the one I'm seeing in the "Read" view does not align with current legislation. However, when I click "Edit," I see a map that better aligns with the current law. Confusingly, the "Read" view map has colors that aren't included in the legend. See image below:

Significa liberdade (talk) 17:06, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2022

Texas should be red in the map because current laws have abortion legal up to 6 weeks 2601:81:4080:9C10:7849:CC73:EF30:8E86 (talk) 13:04, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terasail^[✉️] 01:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Map about parental consent

File:Map of US minor abortion laws.svg is labeled in the article as "Parental notification and consent laws in the US", making it initially seem as if some states allow the fathers to decide about abortion without consent of the pregnant woman - when the map really is about the parents of the pregnant woman if she is a minor. Please change that misleading labeling. --Enyavar (talk) 11:38, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I think it is a correct term, what you would be referring is a "spousal consent" and it was held unconstitutional under Casey. 89.133.129.200 (talk) 15:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

What I was referring to is the map (still subtitled "Parental notification and consent laws in the US") which should be subtitled something like "Parental notification and consent for minor abortions in the US". A subtitle ideally states what a picture is about (here: abortion rules for minors), but the current subtitle goes directly much deeper into the weeds and never states what is generally depicted. --Enyavar (talk) 13:15, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

States with pre-Roe laws on the books still should really be black out of technicality

States like Wisconsin and West Virginia really should be black if pre-Roe laws are on the books. Both of these states have ceased performing abortions due to these laws. Even if the states don't plan to enforce said laws, they are still there and thus the states should be marked as "illegal" to avoid confusion. Even as the laws will rapidly evolve in those states, I think it's best to not just say "no information" when there is indeed information available. Your thoughts?

Tick tock goes the clock5 (talk) 05:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Exception to abortion law

There is a chart that shows abortion laws in regards to rape, mother's health, as well as fetus health PRIOR to Roe v Wade, but not the present. I think we really need a good chart to show the current exceptions with regard to rape, mother's health as well as fetus health. FreePeoples (talk) 20:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. There's a lot of work needed to update maps with state-level laws. I don't know if certain maps should be labelled as "Roe Era Map" or something, but they are no longer correct. Aemely (talk) 12:50, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I came to say the same thing, I think the problem is, based on the news articles I'm reading, it's pretty vague. The states that may have zero exceptions don't specifically say, 'we have zero exceptions', they just don't mention anything about exceptions. I believe Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Tennessee, are/will fall into the category where there is no specific exceptions to abortion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.155.118.66 (talk) 13:06, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Inconsistent and outdated info

Please update all sections of the page. Some information is very dated, like Georgia which now has a 6-week ban but the field is blank in the matrix, plus the text for Georgia is dated to 1/2020.

Other sections do not indicate whether they are updated, such as the maps showing Parental notification and consent laws in the US, Mandatory waiting period laws in the US, Abortion counseling laws in the US, Mandatory ultrasound laws in the US, and Fetal homicide laws in the fifty states, as well as the text sections.

Also, the trigger-law map needs to be revised to current, and trigger columns should be moved or removed.

Further, there is conflicting information on the totality of bans. For example, Alabama and Arkansas allow medically necessary abortions, but is listed as both complete and limited ban.

In addition, it would be ideal if maps and charts reflect all info for each state, including:

- at what point in the pregnancy abortion is illegal (e.g. immediate, weeks, heartbeat, quickening, viability);

- circumstances for exceptions (e.g. rape, incest, risk of mother's death, risk of mother's impairment, lethal fetus deformity);

- who gets punished (provider, mother, other);

- parental consent (no, 1 parent, both parents);

- punishments given (fines, imprisonment, etc.);

- rewards offered for reporting an abortion;

- who can and cannot sue a person who gets/performs an abortion (police, private individuals - exceptions for rapists and incestuous pregnancy?, etc.);

- prosecution for interstate abortion (such action violates federal law);

- protection of abortion rights by state law/state constitution; - legality of chemical abortion (such as "The Morning After Pill); — Preceding unsigned comment added by ReveurGAM (talk • contribs) 20:59, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

- and other oddities and persecution of victims, providers and associated people.

FInally, US territories are missing from most maps and charts.

Thanks for updating it!

ReveurGAM (talk) 20:53, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Colors on map indistinguishable

Can we please change Legal at any stage to yellow? It's impossible to differentiate from Illegal in the third trimester.021120x (talk) 15:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

That’s false. It is very easy to see the difference between those two. And this suggestion also makes no sense—yellow should never be used on a map as it’s even harder on the eyes than the shade of green that is currently being used. And Virginia is the only state with “illegal in the third trimester”, anyway. VictimOfEntropy (talk) 16:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I would argue for a darker green for the “legal at any stage” states and territories and a lighter green for Virginia. VictimOfEntropy (talk) 16:20, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Virginia on main map

The main map shows Virginia as any stage, but the article (as well as Virginia's own article) says Virginia is 25 weeks. BigChungus156 (talk) 01:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Virginia is supposed to be legal throughout the second trimester, which I guess has different definitions, but by any measurement would still not have a cutoff as early as 25 weeks LMP. VictimOfEntropy (talk) 16:22, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2022 (2)

Change Virginia status in the legality map to 25 weeks because "no restrictions" in Virginia is factually innacurate Quincey Brendars (talk) 19:54, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

References

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Abortion law in the United States by state. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. In particular, your request should be filed at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Abortion_availability_in_the_US_by_fetal_gestational_age.svg . Aaron Liu (talk) 11:49, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

New bill signed in from Indiana

It is perhaps worth noting that the Governor of Indiana has signed a bill outlawing most abortions. GuardianH (talk) 05:53, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

North Dakota Abortions

North Dakota should be black because abortion has been illegal at all stages with exceptions for life risk to the mother and incest since July 28. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnMannon (talk • contribs) 02:14, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Bans of abortion table

The "Bans of abortion" table is outdated, redundant, and basically useless:

• It confusingly has a "current status" column and a "current legality" column. This may have made sense before Dobbs, but now it's just confusing.
• Under "Current legality" it unhelpfully lists only "legal" or "illegal" despite the fact that in all but 14 states, abortion is partially legal. What counts as "legal" or "illegal" is inconsistent. For example, it shows that abortion is "illegal" in West Virginia, but "legal" in Tennessee, despite the fact that West Virginia's current limit is 20 weeks and Tennessee's current limit is 6 weeks. Many other states also have misleading statuses. In several states, the current legality is actually uncertain, but this isn't conveyed in the table.
• The "Current legality" is redundant with the more specific information given in the subsequent table.
• Under "Status before Roe" it awkwardly uses 2 binary columns "Completely illegal" and "Illegal with limits" rather than just listing the status. In some cases, both columns are marked "Yes", which makes no sense. Also, it looks like some editors have been confused by the awkward double header and have been adding post-Roe statuses to these columns (e.g. Arkansas and Arizona).
• Having columns for trigger laws is outdated. Roe was overturned 2 months ago. Either the new laws are in effect or they aren't. Listing whether or not they had trigger laws is no longer helpful.

While this table may have been useful prior to Dobbs, it is now just confusing and redundant. All the relevant information is given in more detail in the subsequent "Limits on abortion" table. The entire table should just be deleted. Nosferattus (talk) 16:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I went ahead and deleted the table. To make it more clear which states have a total ban, I added a pink background to those states in the "Limits on abortion" table along with an explanatory note. Nosferattus (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Abortion becomes legal until 10 week in Indiana

Legitimately, it isn't completely illegal 2603:8001:1603:B351:D024:BA3E:1AA0:FCFF (talk) 00:09, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

din far

din far er flot 152.115.71.130 (talk) 09:43, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Florida on the map

Florida just passed a 6-week ban; however, the law specifically has a trigger provision that prevents it from going into effect unless the state supreme court rules in favor of the 15-week ban passed last year. The court has allowed the 15-week ban to go into effect pending the resolution of litigation around it, which most observers have taken as a strong indication that the court will ultimately overturn the precedent that the FL constitution confers a right to abortion, but the case is still in process and may not be resolved for another year.

I updated the text of the article to reflect all this but I'm wondering what the map should look like. I believe this is the first time that a state has passed a law with a trigger provision since Dobbs, as the previous trigger provisions were set to go into effect if Roe were overturned. It's not quite the same situation, but my instinct would be that we treat this law like other states with pending litigation: have the main coloring of Florida be the 15-week coloring but add a border with the 6-week coloring. I don't have the skills to edit the map but if someone else does it would be good get an update. Jfruh (talk) 16:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)