Talk:A Different World/Archive 1

Time to prune the trivia

Much as I love the trivia, a lot of it is not about the show, but rather the actors from the show and their individual careers. An example: Trivia related to both Spelman AND the show should count; however, trivia about Keshia — who made only a couple of guest appearances and never as a potential Hillman student — going to Spelman just doesn't belong. Can't we work together to cut this back? I'll make the first cut.Lawikitejana 00:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC) (Revised slightly for clarity of wording Lawikitejana 06:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC))

(FYI, to the well-meaning person who changed my spelling, I know it looks odd, but Spelman with one L truly is correct. I've now linked it so that you can see for yourself. :)

Personally, on talk pages I consider it better practice simply to add your correction as a separate line under the original message (it can even be phrased as a question if that's more comfortable). That way, if it's correct, the person is informed, and if it's incorrect, the person isn't made to seem less informed than s/he really is. Just one person's opinion.Lawikitejana 06:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Update: You may not agree with ALL the cuts I made ... while I think the Pulliam trivia cut is most defensible, other cuts were a finer line. I just don't want this to turn into a mirror of IMDb by repeating every bit of trivia about each actor. I left in actor-related trivia that highlighted connections among actors on ADW or that related to differences between the actor and the character (e.g., Jasmine Guy actually is a singer, Cory Tyler actually is a dancer), but cut actor-related trivia along the lines of "Glynn Turman was considered for Han Solo" or "Marisa Tomei won an Academy Award." It's just already such a long article, and those items have nothing to do with the show at all, much as fans may take pride in them as evidence of their good taste. If anyone reverts the article, PLEASE compare the two editions, as I made some other minor fixes that I think should stand. Among other things, I cut the Trivia into sections for easier editing.Lawikitejana 00:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

New trivia sections AND expansion and cleanup suggestions

(Before I get started: Kudos to the person who added the "1970s connection" section! Terrific idea and a meaningful addition, as this was an easily overlooked hallmark of the show, much like Cosby Show's use of jazz singers.)

After seeing that a lot of the trivia cuts I made were restored by other editors, I decided to try a different route and organize the trivia into subcategories: Notable episodes, Character-related trivia, Cosby connections, Connections among the actors, Actor-related trivia, Other trivia. In the process, I restored some items to which people seemed to be very attached, such as the item on Turman that someone had re-added after I cut it previously. I think this approach makes the section more readable and lets readers and editors decide about the relevance of the actor-related items as a group. This way, even if we ultimately leave in those items, anyone who considers them tangential to discussion of the show can simply move on to another category.

There's still a lot of work needed. For one, some of the more list-oriented trivia sections precede more narrative sections, and I think this makes for difficult reading. People not interested in the lists may well stop reading at that point, not seeing that further on, a more traditional article style continues. As another cleanup matter, the new division of the "other trivia" section results in some subsections appearing far above or below other subsections that are closely related. It took so long to do the cutting, pasting, and rearranging that I haven't the energy to do the next step right now. Additionally, the DVD box seems out of place so high up in the article; could someone check out other TV-show articles and see where such a box is typically placed?

More importantly (my opinion, of course), the article presently only touches the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" with respect to the social relevance of the show. The AIDS episode receives one sentence. That's better than not mentioning it, clearly, and at least it's toward the beginning, but there's a lot of material out there about how Debbie Allen, Bill Cosby, and others had to fight to get that episode shown. The "acquaintance rape" episode likewise receives only a little mention here and there, and I didn't see any mention AT ALL of the episode involving use of "the n-word", which was a landmark episode in its own right. There doesn't appear to be mention of an episode I think is less acknowledged, the one in which Freddie urges a professor to consider adopting an older child after hearing him lecture on how hard it is for older and/or African-American children to find adoptive homes.

Just a few thoughts that come up ... oh, and one more: Nickelodeon is presently promoting a Hillman Reunion week for next week (beginning August 28, 2006) that will feature numerous actors from the show, apparently as their characters. This event will include Lisa Bonet, who's usually conspicuously absent from nostalgic gatherings for either ADW or Cosby Show. We need to find somewhere to work that in. Lawikitejana 02:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

As the original author of 1970s connection section, I accept your kudos! :) :) Also, I really like your editing/reformatting from Aug 23. It really improved the article.

ABCxyz 02:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Note: The history page indicates the following addendum was made with respect to the "Hillman Reunion Week" promotion:

The event will also include Jasmine Guy, Cree Summer, and Dawnn Lewis. User:Amni, Revision as of 20:47, 23 August 2006

(I moved it here because it was inserted into the middle of my comments and seemed to deserve its own line. In addition to those mentioned, the ads also show Kadeem Hardison and Darryl M. Bell. Lawikitejana 06:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC))

Don't know if this is only for Trivia expansion and cleanup, but Section 2 has two statements about Debbie Allen I feel are essentially the same. (tail of first and whole last paragraph) MJ56003 (talk) 05:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

HIV/AIDS episode

In the "Hillman College Reunion" online interview [1] Debbie Allen says that the HIV/AIDS episode was the first one done by any show in prime time, period. Do we have an outside source for that? (I ask because those associated with a show often think it is the first to do something even though it's not true; Florence Henderson has said that for years she believed "The Brady Bunch" was the first TV show to show a married couple sharing a bed, but that someone pointed out that a different show actually did it first — "Bewitched," maybe?) Lawikitejana 05:53, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Reunion section errors

I started out trying to fix them, but they're too numerous for a quick fix ... misspellings of character names or titles, poor grammar and typos, non-encyclopedic presentations of information ("can be seen in syndication at 2 pm and 4 pm on your local station" vs. "can be seen in syndication, twice daily in certain markets"). I know it's all silliness to begin with, as it's fictional, but Wikipedia typically takes an encyclopedia-style approach even with whimsical material like this. I'm trying to avoid just reverting the edits, as some information has been added, but it's hard when so much error is introduced. Lawikitejana 01:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Update: Going to go check the history section so I know who deserves the thanks for the great edits. It preserved much of the solid information that was added while vastly improving the style. Lawikitejana 19:26, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Changes

I'm thinking about creating A Different World characters page similar to the Sex and the City characters page with the link under the Cast section header. This will reduce the size of the page. Also, I think an episode guide is needed. Once that's created, the Hillman College Reunion can be merged into that. Any arguments. Kyros 04:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

WOW. A characters page such as you describe would be a terrific move. As for an episode guide, this should be done slowly ... so many articles end up with associated episode guides that are lousy. I've seen everything from each episode having a one-line article (waste of bandwith, even just in theory) to practically a play-by-play synopsis ("Prison Break" episodes especially), which is not encyclopedia. However, as I've said, the current article doesn't do justice to many of the notable episodes, so I'm for the idea in general. You might look at TV.com (with all of us bearing in mind the need to avoid just "ripping off" what the people over there have done). The IMDb version doesn't have enough to go on; I had to go through the whole episode set there and migrate the cast page by page through some 144 episodes, marking who was in an episode and who wasn't. --Lawikitejana 07:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

How about a List of A Different World episodes, sort of like the List of The Cosby Show episodes? RedRollerskate 18:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice Kyros 02:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed! This list is going so gangbusters, I've occasionally hit an edit conflict because RedRollerskate and I were editing the same season at the same time! Thanks for the addition. I've also now gone in and moved up the "Notable episodes" section within the article. We still need to add some material about "If I Die Before I Wake" and the episode where Ron and Dwayne get into a fight over a slur. (Seems like the episode is "Cat's in the Cradle," but I persist in thinking that title must have gotten mixed up with the previous episode's title, which is something like "Just Another Four-Letter Word." There's no other explanation for the weird title.)Lawikitejana 03:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Trivia Trivia

I'm going to add the following sections because all trivia is worthy trivia:

• A Different World/Spike Lee Connection
• A Different World/Final Fantasy Connection
• A Different World/Fresh Prince Connection
• A Different World/Sub-Character Relation Trivia
• A Different World/Kevin Bacon Connection. Here it goes:
  • Lisa Bonet → Deniro (in Angel Heart) → Kevin Bacon (in Sleepers)
  • Jasmine Guy was in Guinevere (1999) with Brian Frank (I) Brian Frank (I) was in Where the Truth Lies (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Cree Summer was in Hearts of Fire (1990) with Maury Chaykin, Maury Chaykin was in Where the Truth Lies (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Glynn Turman was in Black Man's Guide to Understanding Black Women, The (2006) with LisaRaye, LisaRaye was in Beauty Shop (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Marisa Tomei was in Loverboy (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Whoopi Goldberg was in Bogus (1996) with Stuart Hughes, Stuart Hughes was in Where the Truth Lies (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Dawnn Lewis was in Wood, The (1999) with LisaRaye, LisaRaye was in Beauty Shop (2005) with Kevin Bacon
  • Mary Alice (I) was in Wishing Tree, The (1999) with Alfre Woodard, Alfre Woodard was in Beauty Shop (2005) with Kevin Bacon

I can keep going and going and going Kyros 02:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, Lord ... please don't. NOT all trivia is worthy trivia from an encyclopedic point of view, though IMDb might enjoy these additions. One reason this article kept getting tagged with "cleanup tags" is because it already had too much trivia. It has taken weeks of work by several people to be able to integrate the trivia to the degree we have, and adding things like Kevin Bacon connections will just drag the article down — it's not as if Bacon had ever even appeared on the show. There are different web sites for different purposes, and I feel certain that several of them would enjoy the lists you're proposing — Nick at Nite's message boards, TV.com, etc. Just please, don't add these things here; surely there's something more encyclopedic that such a fervent fan as yourself can contribute. :) Lawikitejana 03:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC) (P.S. If you feel they've just GOT to go into Wikipedia, you could create a list for each one...)

Sarcasm ... Sarcasm on my part, I want to eliminate most of the trivia because it's not relevantKyros 23:04, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Notable episodes section

I think it should be taken out--while some people may think that this show was teaching others about social responsibility, others may see these episodes as when A Different World jumped the shark. In my opinion I also find that several of these episodes, such as "Mammy Dearest," are based on the writers' opinions rather than fact. THE evil fluffyface 22:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

U.S. Television Ratings-(Black Households)

I would really like to see whatever your source is for the show's ratings in black homes and if there is similar citability for other shows with a primarily black demographic (ex.: this show's parent series). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 18:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Differentworld-cast.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

POV tag

This concerns POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. This is a drive-by tag, which is discouraged in WP, and it shall be removed. Future tags should have discussion posted as to why the tag was placed, and how the topic might be improved. Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag.Jjdon (talk) 22:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "museum" :
  • [http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/D/htmlD/differentwor/differentwor.htm ''A Different World'', Museum of Broadcast Communications]
  • Second museum reference

DumZiBoT (talk) 10:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Living arrangements table

I recently removed the living arrangements table, as I found it trivial and unnecessary to all but the most hardcore fan of the show. However my edit has been reverted, as it seems there's at least one user who disagrees with my assessment. Fair enough. So I guess we can discuss the matter here. I for one fail to see any encyclopedic value for the table, as it has pretty much no relevance to almost any reader I could imagine. To me it clearly comes within the range of WP:TRIVIA, as well as WP:LISTCRUFT, and fails to meet notability guidelines per Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). There I argue that it should be removed to make room for more relevant, encyclopedic content. Though I am willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Drewcifer (talk) 03:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you should move the table to a small picture template. The table is a bit large, but it does display the information in a more graphic manner.Smallman12q (talk) 20:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

My concern isn't the table's size, it the table's content. It doesn't matter how big or well-laid out it is (though I agree it is pretty huge and unwieldy at the moment), it's still clearly unencyclopedic information. Drewcifer (talk) 20:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

So unless there's any clear arguments to the contrary, I'm going to remove the table again. Drewcifer (talk) 22:52, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters

A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episodes and characters, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Ikip (talk) 11:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)