Talk:2017 Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly election

With reference to: "Other political developments"

This sub-section consists of propagandist content, and its relevance can't be established, in light of the article being about the election and not about what someone has done or not done in general for the people. In my opinion, not only is the name of this sub-section misleading, it also should be removed. ♥ Shri Sanam Kumar ♥ 16:57, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

• Comment I agree. I have stripped it from the article, as it is merely a forum for relating political gossip and speculative rumour (WP:NOTNEWS, WP:NOTRUMOUR). I have also removed various other pieces BLPVIOs, non-neutral statements and suggestions, added a source, and hopefully restored some degree of WP:NPOV. But if this is restored, or the edit-warring tthat has scarred the article today continues in future, page protection and further admnistrative intervention will be sought. O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 15:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

BJP leader pic in infobox

per WP:CONSISTENT and WP:MOS, in any election when leader was not decided and party won the election, wikipedia uses the name of leader who holds the post see 2014 Haryana Legislative Assembly election, and if in case party loses election, wikipedia use the party president image, see 2020 Delhi Legislative Assembly election and 2021 West Bengal Legislative Assembly election. So Yogi Adityanath is to be at the leader's column.Ishqho (talk) 12:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Yogi was not even considered for CM post until after the election. BJP didn't fielded any CM candidate before this election. Modi was the leader of the election campaign. Diptyajit (talk) 11:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL yes you are right that 2017 election was fought under Modi's name, but can you show me a single Wikipage, where your logic is being used that one, under whom election was fought, his/her image will be used in wikipage as leader of that party. My logic which i have stated above have many pages as mentioned above. Ishqho (talk) 12:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho Infobox must not give wrong information. Adityanath was not the leader. Not even contested the assembly election. Venkat TL (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL use party president's image when party has lost the election, or use elected office holder when party won the election is wikipedia policy, so stop applying your own, as you did in 2014 Haryana Legislative Assembly election. and if we go by law, even then india is a parliamentary democracy where, election is fought by MLA candidate not cm candidate, so either you go by wiki policy or indian law, your logic doesn't stand anywhere, please let me know if i am wrong. Ishqho (talk) 12:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Modi was the face of this campaign. See the links from international media if you do not trust me. I am ok with keeping BJP Election Symbol pic or Modi's image here. Since other editors have supported Modi's pic, which is understandable to me, so I prefer Modi over BJP's pic here. Adityanath can be added in the government formation section of the article, not in infobox. "Landslide Win in Uttar Pradesh Polls Means BJP Must Deliver". Time. Mukhopadhyay, Nilanjan. "BJP's Uttar Pradesh win: A turning point for Modi?". www.aljazeera.com. "New BJP Posters For Uttar Pradesh Election Star PM Modi's Notes Ban". NDTV.com. Venkat TL (talk) 12:45, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@ Venkat TL When did i say i do not trust you, i already accepted this fact that modi was the face of up election in 2017, there is no doubt in this, what i am talking about is, wikipedia policies. ok listen, what does the infobox say?? party : bjp, alliance : NDA, leader since : ____, like this, right?? infobox is not talking about who was the face of election campaign, what infobox is showing that who was the LEADER of that party at that time, so from 2017 bjp uttarpradesh's leader is yogi adityanath, so it would be more correct to use yogi not modi, as he is the leader of party's uttarpradesh unit from 2017, if you use modi's name and write leader since 2013 then it would be wrong, because in 2013 modi was pm candidate not bjp up's leader. In short, we have to write the name of leader of the state unit of party in 2017, which is yogi. simple. got it??? Ishqho (talk) 13:03, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Both Modi and Adityanath held the post of MPs from the state. The leader of the BJP campaign, the face, was Modi. It is misleading to claim Adityanath was leading the election campaign when he was not. I can see that you want Adityanath in this infobox, but unless you can present reliable source for that claim (none exist) there is no way we can add him there. Both of us know that this situation is not the same as other election articles, so we should not refer to them. As for the fields of Leader Since, it is safe to mention 2014. Modi was the MP since 2014. Venkat TL (talk) 13:17, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TLok lets go step by step, please answer my question, what does this infobox tells us, i mean which data does this infobox show to readers? Ishqho (talk) 13:22, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

This article is about the election. Not the UP Govt. without reliable source for Adityanath leading the campaign, his pic cannot be added here. No amount of argument will resolve the problem of lack of reliable source. Let's hear from other editors. Venkat TL (talk) 13:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

cool down bro, i have asked a simple question, please try to answer it, then we will move to next point. it is simple, atleast give it a try. this is the only way, i can see to reach to solution. Ishqho (talk) 13:30, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Yogi Adityanath was not the leader of the election campaign. He was appointed as CM after the election. So his name cannot be added in the infobox. Either Modi or the then state president can be named as leader for this election. Diptyajit (talk) 16:37, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:CONSISTENT only applies to article titles, so it is irrelevant to this discussion. As stated in the lead, Modi led the BJP's election campaign. I'd personally prefer to list None for party leader, as Modi was not its CM candidate, but am perfectly happy to accept either Modi or the then-state president. YttriumShrew (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

YttriumShrew, Diptyajit and Venkat TL i think i am not able to make you understand the point, its my fault, i agree. so i would be ok with "bjp's symbol" lotus in the infobox, i am also agree for modi's photo but that would be a little misleading as he was not cm candidate, so to be factually correct i think lotus would be best possible contender. Ishqho (talk) 04:47, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Yogi's name cannot be added in the infobox bcz he was not the face of the party during the election. He became leader after the election. There are 3 options - (1) None, (2) Modi, (3) Keshav Prasad Maurya (then state president). That's all I have to say. Diptyajit (talk) 11:20, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Table of opinion

Username	Modi	Lotus	Maurya (BJP UP chief)	Adityanath	None (no Pic)
Ishqho	Yes	Yes	No	No	No
Venkat TL	Yes	Yes		No	No
Diptyajit			Yes	No
YttriumShrew	Yes	Yes		No	Yes
MPGuy2824	Yes	No	Yes	No	No
Total	4	2	1	-5	-2

If I have not represented your opinion correctly in the table then please feel free to edit the table. Looking at the table it is clear that most users prefer Modi pic in the infobox. Venkat TL (talk) 11:33, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Modi was the leader of the election campaign in West Bengal also. Since Maurya was considered a strong contender for the post of CM and he was also the party chief in UP, I think it would be right to name him as the leader. Diptyajit (talk) 11:43, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

I am neutral on Maurya. He was the UP BJP President in Name only. All the campaign related decisions for BJP in UP were taken by Modi-Shah team. And Modi was the face of this team and the campaign as the reliable sources say. @Diptyajit can you share reliable source claiming Maurya was the leader of the UP election campaign? Without this source it is hard to support Maurya's pic in the infobox. Venkat TL (talk) 11:53, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

In West Bengal also, Dilip Ghosh was the state president in name only. Modi has led election campaigns in many states. I'm prefering Maurya only because Modi is PM and Maurya was UP BJP president (though he was so in name only). Diptyajit (talk) 12:00, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Disagree. Ghosh was regularly seen making announcements about the candidates and campaign. He might not be calling the shots in WB Election but was in media seen doing so. Maurya on the other hand largely participated in the campaign like other MLAs. Venkat TL (talk) 12:07, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Ghosh always appears on TV. But he was not making decisions during the election. He had expressed his dissatisfaction many times over giving tickets to defectors. Modi led the election campaign in UP. But the state president plays a significant role in building the party organization in a state. BJP made Maurya the state president to capture the OBC vote bank. Maurya was also considered a strong contender for the post of CM. As PM, Modi is the supreme leader of BJP but as state president, Maurya was the leader of BJP's state unit in UP. Diptyajit (talk) 12:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Diptyajit please use Wikipedia:Indentation . Please provide reliable source for the claim of Maurya leading the election campaign in UP. Lets see what others are saying. Venkat TL (talk) 13:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Venkat TL I never claimed that Maurya led the election campaign. An election cannot be won just by campaigning. I have already said what I had to say. Now let's see what the rest say. ☺ Diptyajit (talk) 14:01, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

ok. But we have many sources, (I shared above) that credit Modi for leading the election campaign. In every poster It was Modi featured. So Modi in infobox will be reliably sourced. For Maurya, we need to find reliable source. Venkat TL (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Modi was featured in posters bcz BJP did not project any CM candidate. In West Bengal also, it was Modi vs. Mamata. (And I was the one who added those references in the infobox.) I am just saying that Modi was/is not the chief of UP BJP and it needs more than just campaigning to win an election. Diptyajit (talk) 14:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

True. But we would need reliable source to credit that person, Modi or Maurya or whoever. It is lacking right now for Maurya. Venkat TL (talk) 14:24, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

We would also need reliable source for Modi too bcz he only led the election campaign. Diptyajit (talk) 14:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL, Diptyajit and other involved editors, i support modi's pic too, but i still think that lotus is the best contender because modi was not the cm candidate or bjp (up) leader at that time or even now, so i dont see any sense in putting modi's pic, because same logic can apply to yogi also if you add modi's photo, as yogi was not cm candidate or bjp (up) leader, and also similar to modi yogi was also campaigning very aggressively in 2017, so both yogi and modi have had almost same points, about mr maurya, yes he was cheif of bjp (up) no doubt in this, but he was not that much active in elections when compared to others, so that why i think to be factually correct and to have WP:NPOV, lotus is the best choice. Ishqho (talk) 18:38, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho @Diptyajit to make the right decision we should look at the media coverage of the election during and immediately after the election. Based on the sources included in the article and the ones I shared above, all the media sources are crediting Modi with the victory as well as the election. Ishqho, Please count the number of rallies done by Modi vs Adityanath. You will find Modi did a lot more rallies. Venkat TL (talk) 18:44, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Diptyajit@Ishqho@YttriumShrew thanks a lot for updating the table. As the updated table stands. We see that Lotus is having max support of 3/4. So IMHO we can put lotus pic now and we can continue the discussion to see if Modi or Maurya can be a more suitable choice. I strongly believe Modi should be kept but I can live with lotus symbol there. Venkat TL (talk) 18:48, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL i have updated the article page, now coming back to discussion, see, infobox tells about the leader of party/ cm candidate. in these both parameters modi doesn't fit, there is no doubt in this, that modi had done more rallies than any other also after election credits were also given to modi, but still infobox doesn't talk about all these, like who do more rallies, or who was leading the election campaign, infobox simply tells about leader, and since in 2017 bjp (up) had no leader than lotus is the best choice. i rest my case here, i dont want to engage further, thank you. Ishqho (talk) 18:57, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho Template:Infobox election defines the parameter of the infobox. Please check it. It has seperate field for candidate and leader of the party. For SP and BSP both are same and there is no confusion. For BJP, There was NO CM Candidate, and the leader of the party could be Modi or Maurya, (for reasons discussed above). So I think it is best to also include the CM Candidate parameter and mark it accordingly. Venkat TL (talk) 19:05, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL i didn't wanted to be part of the discussion as i said already but since it is a little legit question , so i thought to answer it, so my answer would be NO for adding cm candidate parameter, one simple reason, sp and bsp both have same person for leader/candidate, so there would be no change, and if we talk about bjp, they didn't had a cm candidate, so i dont think that adding a parameter to just keep it empty is a sensible thing. Ishqho (talk) 19:10, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Alright. Point taken and agreed. I will no longer ping you. Venkat TL (talk) 19:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Undeniably the so-called Modi factor played a significant role behind BJP's 2017 victory in UP. But Modi was not the chief of the state unit. Maurya addressed more rallies than any other top BJP leader during 2017 campaign. Please see "How they won".. Diptyajit (talk) 19:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

@Diptyajit thank you for the link. It makes a good case for Maurya. I am now more amenable to include Maurya than before. I have left a note at WP:Indian Politics. May be @MPGuy2824 would want to participate. His suggestion may be useful. Venkat TL (talk) 19:25, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

My thoughts on each option:

• Lotus - The choice if we aren't able to come to a consensus, but future readers will definitely find it odd, and they will probably boldly replace it with Yogi's/Modi's photo, only to be reverted by an article watcher.
• No Pic - The Lotus is a better option than this.
• Adityanath - This is what future readers would expect, but the sources make it obvious that he wasn't the CM candidate before the election.
• Modi - There are good arguments saying that he was the face of the BJP during this election, but again, odd to future readers (less odd than the lotus though).
• Maurya - He was the BJP state chief during the election, and one would assume, a CM contender.

Overall, if you folk are ok with putting Modi and Maurya side-by-side, I'd vote for that (I'm pretty sure i've seen this used in some non-Indian election articles) with a link to Maurya's article below that. Otherwise my vote is for only Maurya's photo (and link) to be used. I've added my vote to the above table. In any case, please add an html comment near the relevant infobox parameter (image1) to direct editors to this discussion. Ask the editor to read the discussion before changing the image. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:37, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824 thanks for commenting. It is clear that some future readers will be surprised no matter what. It is up to us to make this clear in the lead or the other relevant section that BJP contested without a CM face. There is not much space to add 2 pic side by side. We will have to choose something between Modi, Maurya and Lotus. Diptyajit has dug up some good sources for Maurya, but if we check the International sources no one talked about him and all were referring to Modi. Indian media talked about most leaders but I guess Modi was more talked about than Maurya. In our table of opinion Modi is again leading. I believe the % of future readers opinion will also be similar. Hence, IMHO Modi's pic will be least disruptive. Venkat TL (talk) 07:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

"UP election results 2017: The Chief Minister hopefuls". states that Maurya "could be credited for playing a crucial role in stitching the rainbow social coalition of non-Yadav OBCs behind the BJP." Diptyajit (talk) 20:21, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Diptyajit, this quote from the article "Maurya came to limelight after Amit Shah appointed him the BJP state president in April last year. Maurya, 47, has overseen Shah’s meticulous plan at the ground level." is a good one. Maurya's contribution along with sources need to be added to the article. Right now, if we read the article lead. third line onwards. It makes it clear that Modi served as the defacto leader of UP BJP. It can be seen as an explanation of why the infobox was showing Modi's pic. Venkat TL (talk) 07:13, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Venkat TL Modi is not a state level leader. This is the only reason I am not supporting Modi over Maurya. If Modi's pic can be attached here in the infobox then it can be done in cases like 2021 West Bengal election also. What do you think? Diptyajit (talk) 07:37, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Regardless, Modi's pic in the infobox will make it clear to the readers that the party went into campaign and election under his leadership. The Lead also explains it well. We will have to go by what the reliable sources are saying. Each case is different and will depend on the RS in that case, better to discuss the other states on their own election page. Venkat TL (talk) 07:43, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

We should all beware of WP:OTHERCONTENT arguments. Other elections shouldn't dictate what we do here, because every election is different. YttriumShrew (talk) 08:26, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Then I am updating the infobox as per talk page. - Diptyajit (talk) 09:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Diptyajit Thank you. Venkat TL (talk) 09:25, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Venkat TL, Diptyajit i have updated table per myself, so now we have three contenders with same vote, Venkat TL why dont you clear your position in table on maurya to make a clear consensus, modi shouldn't be there because it is factually incorrect, maurya or lotus are factually correct, because infobox talks about leader of party not leader of campaign. although we can also say that WHOLE bjp was contesting election , we cant ignore the contribution of amit shah, jp nadda. as also at the time of abrogatting article 370, amit shah was the main person but still almost every international media source give credit to modi, and indian sources either give credit to modi or just put modi and shah simultaneouly, not even a single media source quoted shah alone, so putting leaders on the basis of there contribution in campaigning is wrong, modi would always get credit because he is the leader at national level, i would prefer lotus, as there was no "single" leader of party campaigning, but still maurya would be way better then modi and lotus is best. Ishqho (talk) 10:21, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

YttriumShrew, Diptyajit could you both please clear your positions on the blank boxes in table so that we can reach a consensus. Ishqho (talk) 10:23, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

ok leave it, to make things less complicated, i take my words back, i am agree for modi too, i have changed his pic with a more clear one, still other users, if you could clear your stances in table, than that would be appreciated. Ishqho (talk) 10:31, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

just to make less complicated, as maurya wasn't much active in election campigning and in present time, he is not active much in 2022 election campaigning too, considering these two things, i withdraw my support for maurya. Ishqho (talk) 10:35, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho We are discussing 2017 election only, not the upcoming 2022 election. Maurya adderessed more rallies than any other top BJP leader. So there is no doubt regarding his active participation in 2017 campaign. Please see the link that I've shared. Diptyajit (talk) 10:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Diptyajit could you please fill, your columns in table.then lets see whether others agree with you on maurya or not. Ishqho (talk) 10:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho I am not commenting on what others will agree or not. You said "maurya wasn't much active in election campigning". This claim is pointless. That's all I'm saying. Diptyajit (talk) 10:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ishqho, we have made a lot of progress since the time discussion started. My position on Maurya is that I am neutral. I am not opposing his pic because Diptyajit has made some good arguments in his supports. However I am not yet supporting Maurya because of the lack of sources crediting him for the Election work and victory. True, every leader has done work, but the infobox represents the leader and the face of the party in the election. If you want to compare between Modi and Maurya, both are party leaders and Elected MP from UP, so it is not wrong to list either of them as Party leader. I am supporting Modi because we have reliable sources crediting Modi for the election and victory. Venkat TL (talk) 10:53, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits without sources

@Dhruv edits @Dev Adhi can You please review the recent edits and reverts. IPs have recently messed up with the seat numbers. I am not sure which is the most correct version. Venkat TL (talk) 10:22, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I believe you have reverted all the incorrect ones. Dhruv edits (talk) 19:36, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits thanks for reviewing. Venkat TL (talk) 06:59, 7 February 2022 (UTC)