Talk:Fallout (American TV series)

Xelia Mendes-Jones

I have created a stub article for Xelia Mendes-Jones (Draft:Xelia Mendes-Jones). I don't have credentials to move it from drafts into main space. Since Xelia is a lead actor in this series it'd be great if someone interested would help with that, and link to it in this protected article. Thanks for any help. Rustyfx (talk) 19:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Lead? How do you figure that? SDSpivey (talk) 04:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

There are six main cast members listed in this article. Xelia is one of them. 00:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC) Rustyfx (talk) 00:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

They are not considered in the main cast by any sources. They were present in two episodes. BroadcastPs4 (talk) 06:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I see they are considered apart of the mIn cast per MOS:TVCAST. However they are not considered as lead cast. Lead cast has the most screen time and is considered crucial to plot development whereas main cast is a more broad term encompassing important characters that have a significant role in the story. BroadcastPs4 (talk) 06:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I used "lead" when I should have used "main", but I don't think the semantics of either term is an important point in this context. As the article source states: "Despite only appearing in two episodes, they are credited amongst the main cast in all appearances per MOS:TVCAST". There is an identical note about Kyle MacLachlan. In my view, what is relevant here is whether or not Xelia Mendes-Jones meets notability criteria. If they don't, then I would appreciate a clear explanation of that. Rustyfx (talk) 16:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I have acquired credentials and moved the draft to main space. This topic can be archived. Rustyfx (talk) 00:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Proper credit for Geneva Robertson-Dworet and Graham Wagner

I added proper credit for the creators, writers and show-runners with a published citation.

@Mxhyn16: I see you've reverted this addition twice. Do you have a citation that credits creator, writer and/or show-runner to different persons or do you have a different disagreement with the edit? Did you review the citation?

Here's the quote from the citation. Seems pretty straightforward.

"Geneva Robertson-Dworet and Graham Wagner are co-creators and serve as executive producers, writers and co-showrunners."

I'm going to put the information back in. Can you please explain your reasoning before you revert again?

Stevedorex (talk) Stevedorex (talk) 21:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Here's the citation for this.

'Fallout' Series Gets New Release Date on Prime Video (variety.com) Stevedorex (talk) 04:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

"The new show, created by Geneva Robertson-Dworet and Graham Wagner"

https://www.polygon.com/24122477/fallout-tv-series-review-prime-video-show

"in the series created by Geneva Robertson-Dworet (Captain Marvel) and Graham Wagner (Silicon Valley, Portlandia)."

https://movieweb.com/fallout-ella-purnell-aaron-moten-interview/

"We’ll start our critical roundup with Tanner Dedmon from ComicBook.com. As someone who sounds like they’re very much in the camp of existing Fallout fans, Dedmon praises creators Geneva Robertson-Dworet & Graham Wagner for sticking that landing."

https://www.cinemablend.com/streaming-news/critics-seen-amazons-fallout-series-fans-games

--Stevedorex (talk) 23:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

R-D and Wagner appear to be the showrunners, sharing executive producer credits with Nolan and Joy, but Nolan and Joy are considered the creators of the series, the ones that did the work to pitch the series to Bethesda. Masem (t) 00:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

"Created by" in the United States is a writing credit, awarded by the Writers Guild of America West. Nolan and Joy did not write on the series. Stevedorex (talk) 04:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

"Fallout is the latest video game adaptation to hit the small screen. Created by Geneva Robertson-Dworet and Graham Wagner,"

Fallout First Reviews: A ‘Violent, Fun, Emotional, Epic’ Video Game Adaptation, Critics Say | Rotten Tomatoes

We've got at least 5 citations explicitly awarding "created by" credit to R-D and Wagner. And not sure how to capture it here, but they have a "created by" card in the credits at the end of every episode. Not sure how much more we need. Stevedorex (talk) 04:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

"Television also has a "Created by" and a "Developed (for Television) by" credit under a crediting structure known as separated rights. Writers entitled to created by credits will have developed a significant part of the format, story, and teleplay, and also get sequel rights to the material. Created by credits are given on every episode, while Developed (for Television) by credits are only given on the episodes the writer has explicitly contributed material to."

WGA screenwriting credit system#Separated rights Stevedorex (talk) 04:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

References

Suggestions for improving the "Premise"

Hello everyone, I noticed that the premise is unclear: Resource wars are caused by lack of oil, not nuclear power (nuclear is the answer to the lack of oil); the issue of micro transistors is not addressed (a main divergence with the real world timeline).

Source: https://stylecaster.com/lists/vault-33-fallout/

P.s. From what I know the Fallout universe is a satire of the 1950s (including the discredited Peak oil theory of 1956). The context can certainly be improved with the Fallout Bible. 37.0.81.239 (talk) 22:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Just watched episode 6 last night and noticed that a background news report explicitly called out a shortage of *uranium* as the source of conflict as the world broadly adopts nuclear power. Stevedorex (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Steve, you're both right: in the Fallout universe, the war between China and the United States begins over a shortage of fossil fuels. One of the key events of the war are the Anchorage battle (2066-2077) for the control of the "last" oil pipelines.

Investment in nuclear power is the answer to the problem of oil scarcity; however, it is true that uranium causes other conflicts (related to resource wars) in the franchise.

Here's a recap:

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Resource_Wars 93.38.68.62 (talk) 09:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I feel like the premise does a poor job of introducing the series to those not already familiar with the franchise--should it really be giving significant spoilers right off the bat? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.142.33.163 (talk) 09:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

"Critical acclaim"

This show is not critically acclaimed and the line that it is faithful to the source material is baseless. Its reviews among critics indicates positive reviews but not critical acclaim. Considering that in the lead section only the reception of critics is stated, and critics cannot comment on faithfulness to the source material because they are not fans, clearly shows someone has a fetish for it likes to view from their own imagination. I want someone to actually prove these claims please... Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Removed all of it. The reception section does not back any of these statements currently. Write reception first, with sources, then summarize in the lead. That said, @Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel, we can be far more professional with our citation needed reason. Remember those are shown to EVERY reader. -- ferret (talk) 23:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Ta Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

BUT, we still must have a source for it being "critically acclaimed", don't you think? Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

No, the aggregator references show that well enough. -- ferret (talk) 23:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

No, Metacritic says "generally favorable". — YoungForever^(talk) 23:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@YoungForever Well that's an easy enough adjustment and should still be in the lead. -- ferret (talk) 00:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Here are again. @DemoJoker47 the lead cannot summarize the reception with details that are not included and sourced in the Reception section. Please stop. You've already violated 3RR and at risk of being blocked. The contents of the lead need to cover what is presented, and sourced, in the Reception section. "Go read the reviews on the aggregators" is not a substitute for this. -- ferret (talk) 21:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Robert House

It looks like Rafi Silver's credit as Robert House has been removed from the cast section for whatever reason; the most recent edit from about a day ago stated it was because he wasn't in the show and that the text was listing who played him in the game, but that's untrue; Silver appears playing House in the final episode, and is credited as Robert House of RobCo by Amazon in both the episode's credits and the X-Ray feature that appears on the Amazon video player. Furthermore he's played by René Auberjonois in the game, so I'm not sure where the confusion came from. Since the article is protected, could someone with editing access correct this? Felminert (talk) 01:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Felminert The confusion came from the fact that Business Insider linked to Fandom as their own source for the information, which was rather suspect. Yes, Rafi Silver is in the show, but as a currently (apparent) non-notable BLP with a cameo presence as a non-notable character in the current season, likely does not warrant inclusion per MOS:TVCAST. I suspect we'll see more of him in season 2, so things are subject to change. -- ferret (talk) 02:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I added a link to his role as Robco's CEO given his pivotal role in New Vegas as a link in his line description. While it is true he's a minor role on this season, the link this provides to NV is significant and surely he might have a larger role on S2 (Sebastian) 20:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Main character

In the cast section there are too many people in the main cast, i mean even a guy you see in two epiodes only 93.41.3.208 (talk) 06:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Grammatical error and incorrect place name for Episode 8

In the section describing the synopsis for Episode No. 8, make the following changes to correct mistakes:

Change the sentence: "Lucy turns the head over to Moldaver, who reveals when Hank is from, that Rose left the vault with infants Lucy and Norm, that Hank found her and took the kids back, and that Hank was responsible for the nuclear bombing of Shady Sands, turning Rose into a feral ghoul." to the sentence... "Lucy turns the head over to Moldaver, who reveals where Hank is from, that Rose left the vault with infants Lucy and Norm, that Hank found her and took the kids back, and that Hank was responsible for the nuclear bombing of Shady Sands, turning Rose into a feral ghoul." This corrects a grammatical error with the use of "when", instead of "where".

Change the sentence "Maximus makes his way to Lucy and frees her father but attacks him after Lucy reveals Hank's role in Sandy Shades destruction." to the sentence... "Maximus makes his way to Lucy and frees her father but attacks him after Lucy reveals Hank's role in Shady Sands destruction." This is to correctly name the town that was bombed from "Sandy Shades" to "Shady Sands" Bkenna (talk) 23:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. @Bkenna: This page is no longer protected. RudolfRed (talk) 01:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Season 2 - New Vegas references

Season 2 has been announced, and there are visual clues that the story will connect to New Vegas. However, until there is an official statement, we should refrain from adding this as a fact. One there is a verifiable source, we can add this info. GimmeChoco44 (talk) 19:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Impact on games

There are many articles since the series was released stating record concurrent players across games (notably the most ‘current’ ones: Fallout 3, New Vegas, 4, and 76), catapulting the series as some of the most played games during April. There are even articles suggesting that Microsoft possibly even starting to invest more assets into developing the next Fallout game despite Elder Scrolls 6 dropping first, trying to capitalize on its current popularity. Also the newest season of Fortnite will have Fallout included. The ‘fallout’ of the series releasing on gaming, if you will. Anyone else this this is worth noting? 2603:6080:6004:85C:B0EC:8E89:9664:D308 (talk) 19:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

On Undos on Character bios.

My edit was undone, claiming inaccuracies. So I address them here, @Ferret.

In the case of Snake Oil Salesman, that is his official cast credit: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12637874/characters/nm1789985?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t27 he is also named as such in other instances in the franchise.

As for the fact that Bud Atkins is the manager of the buds program, this avoids spoilers about the origin and purpose of Vault 31.

Finally her friend's status is determined by their common knowledge, certainly Lucy has different opinions and relationships since her departure from the vault.

I find it distasteful to just revert edits such as this and regard them as "Unconstructive"

(Sebastian) 16:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

IMDB is an unreliable source. Either way this is clearly a description and not an actual name. As for Bud, we don't censor spoilers. Bud's role in the show is the management of the vaults. "Bud's Buds" is not a thing he manages, but a group of people he gathered together. Lucy's opinion of Annabel O'Hagan after she left the vault sounds like WP:OR on your part. Why would Lucy's opinion of Annabel have changed? She doesn't know anything about what's happening in the vault after she left. -- ferret (talk) 16:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

IMDB is Amazon owned, the own publishers' source. Buds buds its a vault-tec managerial program, as stated on the show. Meaning Buds buds is the origin of Vault 31 as show canon. Her opinion might have changed due to the fact of her knowing things about the origin of the vaults, her father and the other new relationships in her life. Going for Originality, how can we call her her 'best friend' when their relationship is not even touched upon on the series, apart from a passing statement.

As for the Snake Oil Salesman, feel free to fix the grammar to your liking, but i find it pretty clear that his name is stated as such in original sources as his credit.

(Sebastian) 16:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Tian2992 WP:IMDB - IMDB is a user-generated source and is inherently unreliable on Wikipedia. As you say "her opinion might have changed", which is why I'm saying you're doing original research. -- ferret (talk) 16:24, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Saying she was her friend at her departure is not original, it's a factual statement.

Here is the credits, "Snake Oil Salesman", capitalised as such, the name of the character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSwEI6xKG5I?t=1041 (Sebastian) 16:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Tian2992 Please self-revert. You are edit warring by restoring contested content here, particular the fact that there are grammar issues. -- ferret (talk) 16:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I was willing to discuss, as the content is backed by sources, you don't seem willing to compromise, learn nor comprehend. (Sebastian) 16:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Please give a read of WP:BRD. We make edits, they get reverted, then we discuss. We don't just restore them. -- ferret (talk) 16:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Be happy I'm not going to push this further, @Ferret, but just know that as a seasoned editor, this whole interaction just leaves me as a reminder of the lack WP:AFG common on power hungry admins, and without a further desire to contribute, even on edits born out of passion for the topic. (Sebastian) 16:39, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

AGF is not a death pact. Plenty of AGF has been given here, and there is no belief you are acting maliciously. That doesn't mean your edits cannot be discussed or reverted. Casting aspirations like "power hungry admins" is a far greater lapse of AGF than anything I've said in this interaction. -- ferret (talk) 16:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I would say, leaving a User talk page message saying my edits were "unconstructive", and "disrupting" does not seem like assuming good faith, neither does reverting before I even had the chance to post on the talk page, nor doing it again as the discussion was still ongoing. You are the one that engaged on 'just restoring them' while I even proposed changes to fit your grammar qualms. Also note the inherent power dynamic of being an admin vs a common user. I tried discussing before reverting while you gave no regard.

Also, seeming I provided the original source for the Snake Oil Salesman character's title, I don't see it fixed. (Sebastian) 16:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Because it is not a name. It's just a descriptor of the character. Credits use sentence case. I reverted you with a stated reason. You reverted and restored your content with no edit summary at all. I reverted again explaining why, and gave you a standard warning on it. You posted to the talk page in response, then immediately reverted again. You did not wait for any discussion or replies before doing so. Nothing about this interaction involves me being an administrator. -- ferret (talk) 17:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, with capital letters, it is also written that way in other sources.1234 Why it shouldn't be the character's name? I would also say that immediately marking the edit as unconstructive and disrupting is not the best procedure, next time you should choose a more detailed description of what bothers you.Jirka.h23 (talk) 10:12, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Jirka.h23 Could you research a little more before you reply? I did not immediately mark an edit as "unconstructive and disrupting". Here are my two edit summaries: These are not really improvements to the brief descriptions. Snake Oil Salesman is not his name or a proper noun for one., and Per last. Unexplained restoration of inappropriate grammar and details.. As for "Snake Oil Salesman" as a name, the first source makes mention of it just once and the grammar can be read as descriptive, the opportunistic Snake Oil Salesman. The latter three of the sources you provide all use "the Snake Oil Salesman" as well, just without an adjective inserted, as a title/descriptor, as you would anyone without a clear direct name. This is not the characters name. He doesn't greet people with "Hi, I'm Snake Oil Salesman." -- ferret (talk) 13:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Ah then I'm sorry, I was only responding to what was written here on the talk page. But I still don't understand your arguments. It's written multiple times everywhere, and in the text, and all capital letters, it's not just in the title of the articles.Jirka.h23 (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

It's very much used like a title, and throughout the prose of all four of those sources, the article "the" is always included in front. When we talk about "the President", "President" is not a name. We don't know his actual name, just how he is referred to. -- ferret (talk) 16:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)