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Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number edit

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 6 June 2024, 08:59 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.
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Nominator(s): λ NegativeMP1 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"You all came back, huh? Why? You all know how this ends, don't you?" - Richard

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number is a sequel to one of the most influential indie games of the 2010s, but is widely considered weaker than that game and is generally only remembered for being banned in Australia. The article for it is basically my #1 work on this site, having been worked on by me since my first non-talk page edits. It's also a former featured article candidate that failed due to concerns I was not able to address on time due to some real life events. With the copyedits done since then and all meaningful sourcing being exhausted, I believe that this article has very little in its way to becoming a featured article. I look forward to addressing any comments. λ NegativeMP1 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Panini! edit

No change, unless if MP1 got into some huge Wiki-drama that I should condemn. Panini! • 🥪 03:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Draken Bowser edit

Never got around to playing the sequel, but the first game was a good one. I have a feeling the nom will be successful this time, just need to iron out a few kinks. Dropping a few suggestions

Lead

  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, with most of it focusing on the aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by the previous game's protagonist, Jacket." - I think this is just a bit much to take in for the article's second sentence.
    • I can agree, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to word this or shorten it.
  • Prefer "with Dennaton incorporating all unused concepts they had from the development of the first game into the sequel."
    • Done.
  • "received generally positive reviews from critics, with reviewers generally praising the soundtrack and gameplay"

Gameplay

  • "such as" - used five times in relative proximity.
    • Reduced repetition.
  • "It is divided into several chapters (such as a building), each of which is further broken down into several stages (such as the floors of the aforementioned building)." - sometimes we need parentheses, but would it be possible to rephrase?
    • Unless you have any suggestions, I'm not sure.
  • "Most chapters have the player take control of a different character, with the game having thirteen playable characters in total." → "Most chapters have the player take control of one of thirteen playable characters."
    • Done.
  • "with enemy reactions towards player action being varied and enemies being able to get stuck in place." - could be slightly rephrased for better flow.
    • Rephrased.
  • "Exclusively for the version of the game released on Steam-release" - and I'd prefer to swap the following clauses into - "a level editor allowing players to create their own levels is included." - or to swap the entire sentence on its head leading with info on the level editor and ending on "..with the Steam-release."
    • Done.
  • "the players to create their own cutscenes and dialog, making it possible for players to create their own campaigns." - repetition.
    • Rephrased this bit completely.

Synopsis

  • Are video games subject to plot-section word limits? It's at 738.
    • Technically, there is a recommendation to keep it under 700 words, but this game has a convoluted plot and I think it's at the shortest it can be at.
  • " Following the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, 'Jacket', has been arrested after being manipulated into killing off the leadership of the Russian mafia by 50 Blessings, a neo-nationalist terror cell that masquerades as a peaceful activist group, gaining nationwide infamy." - a long sentence introducing many new ideas. Does "gaining nationwide infamy" refer to Jacket, 50 Blessings or both?
    • Added "leading to him", which should specify Jacket I think.
  • Prefer "serves with him in a commando squad deployed in Hawaii in 1985."- and I think I get what is meant by: "the basis of the shopkeeper" - but could the idea be communicated more clearly?
    • Changed to remove "the basis of", since the shopkeeper is just Beard.
  • "In 1991, a group of copycat killers known as The Fans attempt to emulate Jacket for attention, while the Son of the Russian Mafia boss of the first game seeks to return the Russians to power against the Colombian Cartel with the help of The Henchman, the latter of which seeks retirement." - a lot to take in before the full stop.
    • Broke the sentence.
  • "- in an act of desparation -" - ndashes.
    • Done, I think?

Halftime break. Will return later. Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 16:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Development

  • "a team composed of" prefer "duo"
    • Done.
  • "Dennaton prioritized developing the game specifically for the fans of the original, comparing their development strategy to that of the Mega Man series. Unconcerned with trying to attract a larger audience, they described that they would 'give people that like the first game another game that they will enjoy.'" - the message conveyed by the quote is almost identical to the first clause.
    • Changed.
  • "The success of Hotline Miami was noted to lead to the increased the popularity of the artists behind the game's soundtrack.
    • Done.

Marketing and release

  • "It was announced here"
    • Done.
  • "Burns of VideoGamer and Rad of IGN praised the narrative, with Burns praising Dennaton's world design and Rad praising the variety in character motivations. Dave Cook of Vice praised the narrative for being a "smart story that many people simply didn't understand", and praising the ending." - "The soundtrack was additionally praised for its combination with gameplay by Thurster of PC Gamer and Burns of VideoGamer. Some tracks received additional praise for their specific uses in the game, with "Roller Mobster" being praised by Thurster of PC Gamer, and "You Are The Blood" being praised by Caty McCarthy of VG247 post-release in 2018"
    • Lower repetition.
  • Perhaps: "Many viewed it as whatattendees(?) shared Nathan Grayson's view of adescribed as a"
    • Done.
  • "that they would not change the ruling."
    • Done, though I left it as saying "challenge the ruling" since that seems like the proper lagnuage here.
  • "Upon release of the game"
    • Done.
  • "calling it a "grave mistake" in the game that did not feature into the narrative."
    • Done.

That's all I've got. Draken Bowser (talk) 19:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! I've addressed all of the above comments unless specifically noted otherwise. λ NegativeMP1 23:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Draken Bowser, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been thinking about it. With the comments from the last review in mind and also my personal impression I'm waiting for one or two competent prose reviewers to speak their mind before pledging. Draken Bowser (talk) 12:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • This review seems to be in good hands. I'm passing the torch. Draken Bowser (talk) 19:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Generalissima edit

Comments from Skyshifter edit

Might turn this into a full review later. For now, I've noticed that some references need better formatting. Some examples are: the Hardcore Gamer sources shouldn't repeat the website's name in the title; the GameSpot ones lack both the author and date; the Eurogamer ones lack the author's names; etc. I'd recommend going over the references to add these missing parameters. I'd also recommend adding italics when the game's name is cited in the title, similar to what was done in OneShot. Skyshiftertalk 21:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out, I've went through and italicized the games titles, as well as add all missing author first and last names unless the information was not available (ex. the Stadia primary source, the Famitsu source). λ NegativeMP1 17:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Z1720 edit

Non-expert prose review:

  • "include knocking out enemies with a door or kicking them against the wall, as well as finishing moves" -> " include knocking out enemies with a door, kicking them against the wall, and finishing moves."
    • Done.
  • "Jake, a nativist member of 50 Blessings, and Richter, a reluctant operative of 50 Blessings" -> "a nativist member of 50 Blessings named Jake and a reluctant operative of 50 Blessings named Richter" there are a lot of commas in this sentence so this will remove some of them.
    • I believe the suggestions from DRB have addressed this.
  • "The trials result in a film depicting him as "The Pig Butcher"." Is this "him" referring to Jacket?
    • Clarified.
  • I did numerous copyedits to the article. Feel free to revert anything you feel is unhelpful.

Those are my thoughts. Z1720 (talk) 16:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of the above done, and thank you for the copyedits! λ NegativeMP1 21:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by DWB edit

Hi Negative, here are some of my initial thoughts, mostly relating to copy editing. I have no knowledge of this game so some things seemed unclear to me as a casual reader. I will take a look at the rest of the article soon, I'm up to Development.

Media edit
  • From a presentation perspective, the media is all right aligned and seems to be either stacked on top of each other or pushed out of their respective sections. I'm on a higher resolution (2560x1440) and, as an example, it looks like this to me. The lower the resolution the more things fit but I would potentially suggest swapping the image of Soderstrom in the development section for this smaller one which is also clearer and forward facing File:Jonatan Söderström (Cactus) - Independent Games Festival 2010.jpg as the current one has him facing out of the article rather than in and is 90% not a picture of the main subject. I would also suggest left aligning both this image and the gameplay one, I think this would resolve much of the stacking problems. Left aligning the image of the assault would also prevent it being pushed down by the metacritic box.
    • Changed the image and moved some over to the left.
Text edit
  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami," add the year of release of the first game in brackets after it.
    • Done.
  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, focusing on the background and aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by the previous game's protagonist, Jacket." suggested -> "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, focusing on the background and aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by Jacket, the protagonist of the previous game."
    • Done.
  • In the version of the game released on Steam, the player has access to a level editor, allowing them to create custom levels and share them."-> "allowing them to create and share custom levels with other players."
    • Done.
  • "The game was originally conceived as downloadable content for the previous game, with the project becoming a standalone sequel after the length of it surpassed the base game. " -> "The game was initially conceived as downloadable content for the previous game, but it became a standalone sequel after its length surpassed that of the original."
    • Done.
  • Multiple sentences starting with "the game", "The game was first announced to be in development in December 2012 through Jonatan Söderström's Twitter. The game was developed to be the last in the series, with Dennaton incorporating all unused concepts from the development of the first game into the sequel. " -> ""The game was first announced in December 2012 via Jonatan Söderström's Twitter. Developed as the final installment in the series, Dennaton incorporated all unused concepts from the first game's development into the sequel."?
    • Done.
  • The lede has issues which stem from discussing release platforms in multiple places, both at the end of the 2nd paragraph and the end of the 3rd. I would maybe take a look at the 4th para of Spider-Man_(2018_video_game) and potentially merge the last two sentences of hte 2nd para into the third para.
    • Done.
  • "Both the player and enemies can be felled from a single attack. " - > "Both the player and enemies can be felled by a single attack."
    • Done.
  • "Additionally, the enemy AI is inconsistent, with reactions towards player action being varied." I think this is too vague, the first part sounds like it's broken, maybe an example of how it changes?
    • Will get to this later as I found some sourcing to add more information about it but I'll have to add it. Done.
  • "Upon completion of the game, "Hard Mode" is unlocked for levels in which the player achieved a rank of C+ or higher." what does ranking involve? What are players scored on? What's the range of grading?
    • I get this text is vague, but this is unfortunately the best I can do I believe. There's no decent sourcing for the high score system. Could possibly reword it but this is the best in terms of what can be worked with..
  • Sounds a bit marketing speak "Exclusively for the Steam release, a level editor allowing players to create their own levels is included." -> suggestion "The Steam version of Hotline Miami 2 includes a level editor, allowing players to create their own levels"?
    • Done.
  • "The plot of Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number is told out of order" -> "The events of Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number are presented out of chronological order" Is this what this means?
    • Yes, fixed.
  • Following the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, "Jacket",[a] has been arrested after being manipulated into killing off the leadership of the Russian mafia by 50 Blessings, a neo-nationalist terror cell that masquerades as a peaceful activist group, leading to him gaining nationwide infamy. -> "After the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, 'Jacket,' is arrested, having been manipulated by 50 Blessings—a neo-nationalist terror cell posing as a peaceful activist group—into assassinating the Russian mafia's leadership, which leads to his nationwide infamy.""
    • Done.
  • the background and the aftermath of Jacket's rampage. remove the second "the"
    • Done.
  • The whole second paragraph here is a bit wordy. Here is a suggestion for the whole section ""The game follows several playable characters through a series of intersecting plotlines that explore the background and aftermath of Jacket's rampage. 'Beard,' the shopkeeper from Jacket's hallucinations in the first game, serves with him in a commando squad deployed in Hawaii in 1985. Operating simultaneously with Jacket in 1989 are Jake, a nativist member of 50 Blessings, and Richter, a reluctant operative of the same group, both committing their own massacres, with Richter being coerced. In 1991, a group of copycat killers known as The Fans try to emulate Jacket for attention. Meanwhile, the Son of the Russian Mafia boss from the first game aims to restore the Russians' power against the Colombian Cartel, assisted by The Henchman, who seeks retirement. Martin Brown, a sadistic actor, uses his role in the in-universe film Midnight Animal to fulfill his violent fantasies, while detective Manny Pardo employs extreme violence to deal with criminals. Evan Wright, a writer, seeks to document the massacres in a book."
    • Copy pasted this version, since I tried my own methods in the past to reword this and I wasn't too sure how to make it less wordy.
  • the Soviet Colonel – in an act of desperation – murders remove the spaces between the '—'
    • Done.
  • but Beard manages to carry him to safety and save his life. - saying the same thing twice, carrying him to safety or saving his life are sufficient alone
    • Reduced to "saving his life."
  • The trials also result in the creation of a film depicting him as "The Pig Butcher". who is this in reference to? It sounds like it's meant to be Jacket but the prose makes it seem like it's about Evan?
    • Made this clearer.
  • Evan is given leads by his friend Manny Pardo, a police detective who uses his position to go on killing sprees during stakeout operations, justifying them as self-defence, needs a full stop instead of continuing on to talk about Richter.
    • Done.
  • The aforementioned film's star, Martin Brown, dies when he is accidentally shot by an actress with live ammunition on set of the film's final scene I assume this is talking about the Pig Butcher? I'm a bit unclear why we're jumping from the trial, to Evan, to the film, back to Evan, to two otehr characters and then mentioning the film again. It might be that way in the game but we can take some liberties to present events in a sensible reading order unless the jumping about is essential to the narrative. I would maybe move the first mention of the Pig Butcher to AFTER Evan's mother coming from Hawaii, then we can introduce the film, the murder of Martin Brown, and the fans inspired by Jacket altogether.
    • Reorganized the section. It is told this way in the game, but explaining the game in chronological order is already something this article does that the game does not, so how the game presents it doesn't matter. Readability comes first here.
  • they are all killed except for Tony, who is personally killed by Pardo afterwards while attempting to surrender. who is Tony, Russian Mafia or a fan? Who is the "all" being killed?
    • This is established earlier on, where the Fans are introduced in the character section as well as "Inspired by Jacket's killings, the Fans carry out a string of murders against petty crooks and drug dealers, unaware of the larger context of Jacket's campaign of violence."
  • Meanwhile, the Son is trying "the Son tries"
    • Done.
  • In their final moments, Manny Pardo we've gone from referencing him by surname to full name again, change to Pardo.
    • Done.
Hope these are useful Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Development edit
  • Shortly after the release and success of the first game, Dennaton began developing downloadable content, while also stating that the game was financially successful enough to fund a new game. -> confusing and assumes the reader knows what DLC is. I'd drop the "while also stating that the game was financially successful enough to fund a new game." altogether since it's stating the obvious and is more relevant to the origina' game's article than this one. I'd suggest something like "Following the success of Hotline Miami, Dennaton soon began developing downloadable content to expand on the game, planning for it to both rival the base game in scale and introduce new playable characters alongside a level editor."
    • Done.
  • As the downloadable content's proposed length surpassed that of the base game, the project was converted into a sequel. -> However, as development progressed, Dennaton realized the scope was greater than that of Hotline Miami and decided to transform it into a full sequel.
    • Done.
  • On 26 November 2012, ten days after Dennaton stated plans to release downloadable content, Söderström announced Hotline Miami 2 to be in development through a post on Twitter. waffling a bit, suggest "Dennaton announced the sequel on 26 November 2012, via his Twitter account.
    • Done.
  • However, the developers were still focused on fixing bugs in this original game. I'd question the relevance? Are we saying they were splitting resources? Was it affecting development of the sequel? I'd get rid of the "However", and change it to something like "The developers simultaneously worked on fixing bugs in the original game" and move this up to just after the 2nd point above.
    • I just got rid of this entirely, since it didn't effect development at all as far as any sourcing for this game is concerned.
  • The game was made in Game Maker 7, which was the same engine used in the first game. -> As with the original game, Hotline Miami 2 was built in Game Maker 7.
    • Done.
Music edit
  • The success of Hotline Miami increased the popularity of the artists behind the game's soundtrack. switch "increased" to "contributed to a rise in"
Marketing and release edit
  • planned release date of later that year. -> release date scheduled for later that year
    • Done.
  • "announced/announcement is used 3 times in the first two sentences
    • Changed one to "disclosed" to reduce repetition.
  • known as the Hotline Miami Collection,, it's not a nickname, just say titled, or even just "compilation of both games, the Hotline Miami Collection, released..."
    • Reduced.
Misc edit
  • This game is nearly 10 years old, are there any retrospectives about it's modern appeal? Has it influenced any other games? Win any awards?
    • While the first game had a lot of influence on the indie game scene, this game was overshadowed and is basically disregarded as the first game but worse. There is some minor retrospective commentary, but its not very substantial and I honestly don't think it's worth covering due to how insignificant it is.
  • Are there any sales figures available?
    • Unfortunately not.

I think that's everything. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I've gotten everything you pointed out, with any adjustments or differences from what you suggested being pointed out when relevant. λ NegativeMP1 21:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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