Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union/Archive 3

To do

JAPAN:

• B: Yuji Sonoda, Takashi Tsuji, Andrew Miller, Keiji Hirose, Toru Kurihara, Hirotoki Onozawa, Yukio Motoki, Reuben Parkinson, Hideki Namba, George Konia, Daisuke Ohata, Junichi Hojyo, Tsutomu Matsuda, Takashi Yoshida.

• F: Shin Hasegawa, Masahito Yamamoto, Masaaki Sakata, Masao Amino, Masahiko Toyoyama, Ryo Yamamura, Koichi Kubo, Hajime Kiso, Hiroyuki Tanuma, Adam Parker, Yasunori Watanabe, Naoya Okubo, Takuro Miuchi (captain), Ryota Asano, Takeomi Ito, Yuya Saito.

NAMIBIA

• B: Vincent Dreyer, Jurie Booysen, Melrick Africa, Deon Mouton, Corne Powell, Du Preez Grobler, Regardt Kruger, Rudie van Vuuren, Morné Schreuder, Ronaldo Pedro, Hakkies Hüsselman, Emile Wessels, Desmond Snyders, Niel Swanepoel.

• F: Neil du Toit, Johan Jenkins, Kees Lensing, Janne du Toit, Shaun va Roooi, JM Meyer, Heino Senekal, Phillipus Isaacs, Eben Isaacs, Corneil van Tonder, Schalk van der Merwe, Herman Lintvelt, Sean Furter (captain), Jurgens van Lill, Archie Graham, Andrew Blaauw.

ROMANA

• B: Dan Dumbrava, Mihai Vioreanu, Cristian Sauan, Ioan Teodorescu, Vasile Ghioc, Gabriel Brezoianu, Bogdan Voicu, Romeo Gontineac (captain), Valentin Maftei, Ionut Togan, Lucian Sirbu, Iulian Andrei, Cristian Podea.M/p>

• F: Marius Niculai, Bogdan Tudor, Marian Tudori, Ovidiu Tonita, George Chiriac, Cornel Tatu, Cristian Petre, Sorin Socol, Augustin Petreichei, Marius Pantelimon, Petrisor Toderasc, Marcel Socaciu, Ioin Paulica, Cezar Popescu, Silviu Florea, Petru Balan, Razvan Mavrodin.

GEORGIA

• B: Badri Khekhelashvili, Archil Kavtarashvili, Irakli Modebadze, Irakli Machkhaneli, Otar Eloshvili, Merab Kvirikashvili, Irakli Giorgadze, Gocha Khonelidze, Irakli Abuseridze, Paliko Jimsheladze, Besik Khamashuridze, Tedo Zibzibadze, Malkhaz Urjukashvili, Vasil Katsadze.

• F: Gregoire Yachvili, Georgi Chkhaidze, Irakli Gundishvili, Goderdzi Shvelidze, Vano Nadiradze, Georgi Tsiklauri, Gia Labadze, Ioseb Nikolaenko, Akvsenti Giorgadze, Avtandil Kopaliani, Davit Dadunashvili, Alexandre Margvelashvili, Davit Bolgashvili, Ilia Zedginidze, Viktor Didebulidze, Zurab Mchedlishvili.

URUGUAY

• B: Emiliano Caffera, Juan Campomar, Bernardo Amarillo, Sebastian Aguirre, Martin Mendaro, Diego Aguirre, Joaquin de Freitas, Diego Reyes, Alfonso Cardoso, Emiliano Ibarra, Joaquin Pastore, Carlos Baldasarri, Juan Menchaca, Jose Viana.

• F: Eduardo Berruti, Diego Lamelas, Juan Andres Perez, Rodrigo Sanchez, Guillermo Storace, Pablo Lemoine, Juan Machado, Juan Miguel Alvarez, Juan Alzueta, Juan Carlos Bado, Marcelo Gutierrez, Hernan Ponte, Nicolas Grille, Rodrigo Capo, Nicolas Brignoni, Ignacio Conti.

As promised: TfD nomination of redundant templates

Template:Rugby Team infobox, template:National rugby team, Template:Invitational rugby team and Template:Super 14 team have been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. --Bob 16:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Ru_ball.png listed for deletion

The image used for the Project template, Rugby Stubs, and other things Image:Ru_ball.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is if you are interested in it not being deleted. I created the Image and I find the reasoning slack as the design is fairly generic for rugby balls, Adidas used 'very' similar in 1991 for the RWC and Gibert hardly have copyright for this design. If you agree or disagree please comment on the Page. Stabilo boss 10:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Gilbert and WMF are in Discussion about this, apparently they have sent a mail claiming their trademark has been infringed. Hence Image being deleted. i've uploaded a new image (which cannot be copyrighted except by me.

Stabilo boss 13:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks more like an American Football(Image:Wilson American football.jpg) or those Rugby Balls used in the late 1800 and early 1900's ..Isnt there any good image we can use for the ball is there anyone artistic enough to create one?..--Cometstyles 21:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well we could use a similar photo of a Rugby ball, But then Gilbert might Complain again. Also this is a Traditional Rugby ball, Which is Also the basis of the IRB World Cup Logo, Now before anyone jumps down my throat about alleged Copyright theft again, this Is Completely Different from the IRB WC Logo, and was designed from absolute Scratch by me! Stabilo boss 15:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Why wasn't this image Image:Rugbyball2.jpg deleted??...--Cometstyles 10:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Remaining:

Bolded ones have been updated, please check for accuracy.

Celtic League

Guinness Premiership

Top 14

Pro D2

Super 14

Air New Zealand Cup

BT Premiership Division One

BT Premiership Division Two

Super 10

Rugby Super League

North America 4

National teams

• Vanuatu
• Solomon Islands
• Papua New Guinea
• Jamaica
• Bermuda (kit)
• Ukraine (kit)
• Slovenia (kit)
• Malta (kit)
• Lithuania (kit)
• Latvia (kit)
• Hungary (kit)
• Finland
• Denmark (kit)
• Czech Republic
• Armenia
• Saint Lucia
• Barbados (kit)
• Bahamas
• Kazakhstan
• Brazil
• Peru
• Botswana
• Kenya
• Tunisia

National Division One

• Cornish Pirates
• Doncaster R.F.C.
• Exeter Chiefs
• Leeds Tykes
• London Welsh R.F.C.
• Moseley Rugby Football Club
• Newbury R.F.C.
• Nottingham R.F.C.
• Otley R.U.F.C.
• Birmingham & Solihull R.F.C.
• Plymouth Albion R.F.C.
• Rotherham R.U.F.C.
• Sedgley Park R.U.F.C.
• Waterloo R.F.C.

Currie Cup

• Griquas
• Leopards
• Natal Sharks
• Pumas
• Border Bulldogs
• Mighty Elephants
• Free State Cheetahs
• Griffons
• Boland Cavaliers
• SWD Eagles
• Western Province
• Falcons
• Golden Lions
• Blue Bulls

Please check out the sandbox

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Sandbox

I have been wanting to start this article for ages. Feel free to check it out and make some changes. Cheers. Cvene64 04:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Project Template

Should we, as a group, have a template for our user pages to identify us as the protectors of all things Rugby (and yes, I do mean Rugby Union)?

Rowlan 15:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, potential members will then see the template and may later sign up.GordyB 10:24, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• Agree it's a good idea. To kick it off (sorry for the pun), I'll suggest a userbox and post details here. Nelson50 11:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Done. Made a userbox for us. Add "User WikiProject Rugby union" (Between double curly brackets) to your box list. I used the pictogram as a variation to a rugby ball as logos from the IRB would infringe copyright. It does use IRB colours, though. Nelson50 15:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

This user is a participant in WikiProject Rugby union.

• • Nice...I've added it to my page! Thanks for doing the work on that. Now let them flock to us, right?

Rowlan 21:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • I've edited it to a Rugby Ball image I drew Myself, While "Similar" to the IRB Logo's it doesn't infringe copyright and I think it looks better than the Purple Spheroid. Stabilo boss 00:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• • • • Nice job!Nelson50 11:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • Again I've updated this Image for use on Wiki, the old one was a bit Dated and this is used on a lot of Pages.

Collaboration of the fortnight, and the project's momentum

I am wondering what everyone is thinking about the current amount of momentum, or 'energy' within the project? I have a few concerns about the project, including:

• The collaboration of the fortnight, and lack of activity.
• The number of new members, seem to not be getting many active new participants.
• The peer review department. This is getting very little support, very little comments.
• Announcements, and news. Very little seems to be added here.

My biggest concern is the collaboration of the fortnight, as this seems like the best way to get everyone working together to get an article up to a high standard. I'm wondering if anyone has any comments on any of these things. Especially, I'm interested in any ideas about how to increase the activity of the project. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. - Shudda ^talk 04:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I too have been conerned about the WikiProject and have been holding back the following suggestion for some time - recruit members from Rugby union forums. It could work or could increase vandal rates. Any way we need some new blood.----Hamedog_Talk|^@ 03:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Its not a bad idea. I believe some other projects do it, so why not? There would be heaps of people out there that could help out. Cvene64 04:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, we should definitely do something. I created a welcome template {{RugbyWelcome}} ages ago, which I've been using (so has cometstyles). Also, we may get some ideas from other projects, for example WikiProject Military history has an Outreach department! I don't know if we need anything that fancy, but something should be done. - Shudda ^talk 22:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have created a welcome template for new participants in the project. It's used as follows:

{{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Welcome|~~~~}}

I think it'll be good for new users, gives them a good overview of the project. - Shudda ^talk 05:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Rugby union positions

This article has always included notable players in each position. This has got out of hand with players continually being added that are merely good or in some cases actually obscure. I suggest that we remove them all and merely add players that are in the IRB Hall of Fame. To discuss this further go to Talk:Rugby union positions.GordyB 20:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Position templates

I was thinking about creating templates for use in the bio articles that would link directly to RU positions instead of using a complicated link. For instance, instead of using [[Rugby_union_positions#14._and_11._Wing|Wing]] etc, we could just use {{wing}}, and it will directly link to the section within Rugby union positions. Then, if there is any change to the order/format of that article, or if subarticles were created describing each position, it would be much easier to redirect fifteen templates rather than hundreds of articles. The two I have created thus far can be seen at Serge Blanco in the infobox. --Bob 00:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Very good. I didn't know such a thing was possible.GordyB 11:27, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I just introduced a parameter for capitalising the first letter if required. I do think that this would make it easier if there were ever a change in the positions article. It should also make it easier to link to the subsection when creating articles on players. They can all be found here --Bob 02:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't know that was possible either. Really good idea. Would you be able to create links for the alternative names as well, such as first-five eighth etc. Thanks. - Shudda ^talk 09:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. If I have missed any, list them here and I will get them done. I have introduced parameters for variations within the templates. ie. if you want scrum-halves, type yes in the plural template. eg {{scrum-half|plural=yes}}. If you want it plural and capitalised, then add in the capital parameter. For the words that don't have a change in the spelling for plural, ie wing/flanker/lock, just add in an s after the template. In the case of No. 8, 1st 5/8 and 2nd 5/8, if you want the short form (No. 8) instead of the spely out form (number 8), simply add in the short parameter eg. {{number 8|short=yes}}. How does this sound? --Bob 16:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah this is really good! Have you added this to the templates section of the project? Or the Project's style guide? It may be a good idea as I can see this stuff getting lost, or being hard to find for new people. - Shudda ^talk 02:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Very good work lads, keep it up. Just a quick question, what names do we pick? No because, 1st 5/8 or 2nd 5/8 doesn't mean squat if you are form the northern hemisphere. :-) Saebhiar Adishatz 10:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Depends on the article, if it is a New Zealand article then you would use the New Zealand terms. Depends what country. Because they are wiki-linked then if people aren't familiar with the term can find out what they mean. So it depends on the subject of the article, but whatever term is most common in that country. - Shudda ^talk 10:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Lets finish off the remaining IRB member nations:

It really wont take very long:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldman07 (talk • contribs)

You mean create the pages? - Shudda ^talk 23:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of very small minnows having pages at all. What is to say other than Kazakstan has a rugby team but they aren't very good.GordyB 23:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. Harsh but fair GordyB. Still, little info is better than nothing. к1иgf1$н£я5ω1fт 13:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Kazakstan is a member of the IRB and ARFU, which (in my opnion) qualifies them as notbale. They have even competed in Rugby World Cup qualifying tournaments, which beyond doubt makes them notable. All IRB members should have their pages. Maybe, I get your point on nations like Cyprs and so on that have only played a game or two and are not members, but IRB member nations very much deserve a page. Goldman07 11:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It is not a question of notability, I once put the Indian rugby union team up for deletion and it survived easily. The ruling was that rugby union is a major sport and the national team of any country is notable even if they would be beaten by a team of English schoolgirls. I personally think that Wikipedia would be better off without so many articles on obscure topics but the powers that be beg to differ.GordyB 09:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Six Nations Championship

I recently nominated this for GA, but it just missed the cut (see the articles talk page). The main problem is there are no references. Can someone with more computer knowledge than me send a bot to do some tags, so we can sort this out and repromote it to the status it deserves? Cheers, к1иgf1$н£я5ω1fт 13:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think a bot does that. If you like, people can go through and tag everything that needs a reference, it will look like a mess though. The page is far too long and listy to be a GA. But it is getting there. Cvene64 08:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

On the cricket project we've been having a mass improvement to coincide with the world cup, and someone mentioned Smackbot doing some tagging, but I'm not sure! Cheers, к1иgf1$н£я5ω1fт 18:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

World Cup

The WC is currently a FA article, but it really really needs a little collaboration from WP:RU for language, references (a lot) and a general copyedit to ensure noone nominates it for a FARC review. It would be a real shame if it were demoted in a WC year! Cvene64 08:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I've added a few references where I can. Someone else can do the copy-edit, I'm not so good at that (unless it's bloody obvious). Can you please give a short list of things you believe need references. I've only added a couple of things at the moment. - Shudda ^talk 06:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

• I just added some more stuff to the rules description, hope it is all good info. I think the trophy section needs expansion, I would do it, but to be honest, I don't really understand the history of it, could someone clarify this? Its kind of confusing. The hosts section could do with a little work also - it seems a bit "trivia-ish" in some areas. I think tournament point scorers should be added to the main page also. And yer. There is nothing about the opening ceremony either. Hope this helps. Goldman07 15:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Template mess

We need to review the current template situation. It is my view that there are far too many trying to cover far too many topics. Just look at this Super_14#External_links...what am I meant to use to navigate here?? IMO...Rugby in... templates should not try to cover so much...for example, Rugby in SA should only be on Rugby union in South Africa, Springboks, Currie Cup, Vodacom Cup and Super 14...not on Bulls, Sharks etc. There should be ONE Super 14 template (that is not hidden) that covers all Super 14, there is no need for the champions template either. Also, I think only Rugby in.. templates should be hidden....And...The template covering the national teams is a bit much as well...it should be broken up into Europe, Oceania etc. Cheers Cvene64 07:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

There are far fewer templates than on other articles. Rugby in SA includes the Super 14 teams, to state that they are not part of the SA rugby scene is bizarre. National teams in and rugby union in are, IMHO, fine as is. I can link to the USA from Germany using this. The only one that I could agree with is that the super rugby and SANZAR rugby are redundant. Merging these two should be fine. --Bob 05:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I originally created the SANZAR template out of the old Super 12 template. There were far fewer articles back then and no other templates for the SANZAR countries. It doesn't work so well now and IMO should be retired.GordyB 09:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Well, maybe it is just me then. But IMO the rugby articles look really shit compared to soccer and league in terms of organisation. Of course SA franchises are apart of rugby in SA, but how many freakin templates do there have to be?? SA franchises are apart of the S14 first and foremost, thus, that should be the navigation. Its even worse that all of them are hidden as well, which is just frustrating. There is no need to pile everything into one template, and then have three others below it. As for going from USA to Germany, whats the point? If we go by that rationale, then we should just have links to everything in Category:Rugby union. USA and Ger don't really play eachother, so its just silly. USA play other American teams, which is why it makes sense for nations to have regional templates, not one huge one. Even rugby league has this sorted out, why cant we? Sorry, but the use of templates on rugby pages just really annoys me. Its very poorly set out and very very cluttered. Its bad enough for me, but what about the poor fellas who dont know much about wikipedia? Kind of defeats the templates purpose if it is such a mess that noone navigation is dificult. Again, sorry for ranting, but I think the whole thing needs changing. Cvene64 09:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it, the categories are there for the benfit of editors rather than users. As for the megatemplate I agree with you, at one time I removed the teams that had never even played in a World Cup. How many people really need a short-cut to the Algerian national team?

Re: your proposed regional solution, it is a good one but I think we would get bogged down in detail again. The Africa template really only needs South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Kenya and Ivory Coast (and not necessarily all those teams), the leaguies got it right by keeping it simple.GordyB 10:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that the templates do need to be cleaned up, and ideas are good. However I don't want to make the mistake of us deciding on good rugby countries and bad ones. Let the IRB decide that. Having only regional ones, or having a Tier One and Two template, and then a Tier Three one may be a better idea? - Shudda ^talk 10:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I think regions works better than tiers, NH and SH countries don't play in the same competitions (other than WC) so what connects Italy with South Africa? Not a lot.GordyB 16:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The Top Tier nations and Second Tier nations do play each other fairly regularly in the mid-year and end-of-year Tests. So Italy and South Africa would meet much more regularly then say South Africa and Namibia. - Shudda 23:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

However, Namibian rugby has been influenced a lot by that in South Africa, including having Namibian sides in the Currie Cup. Portugal and Uruguay have just completed playing a series against one another and then we have Japan, virtually isolated in Asia. Ivory Coast has had a team at the world cup, but Morocco has been doing better than them recently. Most articles do not have template clutter, and the few, such as the Super 14 and Rugby Union Tri Nations, can be cleaned up by using just one template like we do in the Six Nations Championship and Heineken Cup --Bob 15:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Shudda, just today I looked at the template page and saw the blank link to Tier 1 template, and so filled in the blank (though I did think at the time, 'why link to a template which doesn't exist - as it won't be being used somewhere'. Personally, I'd rather have several smaller templates that play nice when used together, than one bigger template. I.e. on the overview pages we may use tier 1 2 and 3, instead of the existing overview, but on other pages JUST the tier 1, 2 or 3 could be used if required. I also think that any league tables, or data that changes regularly, should be templated, so they can be used wherever is relevant, e.g. English Rugby Union Leagues Murkee 17:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

.... or possibly a cleverer 'show me everything' template with options, i.e. the default would be just to show the 'main' unions, one could pass parameters to say 'tier 1 only', 'tier 2 only', 'tier 2 and above', 'tier 3 only', 'tier 3 and above' etc. Is this possible? Murkee 07:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

It is... and it could possibly cut down on the number of templates that exit.... just by using optional parameters. I could do it next week if people want (can't at the moment... too much work)... I think a standard color scheme would also go a long way to improving the templates. What color do people want rugby templates to be? Personally, I like the undrstated grey/white templates used in the bio/team/venue boxes. --Bob 14:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Give it a go Bob - it sounds like a decent idea. Grey/white is ok, though maybe that standard sky blue could look good as well? Goldman07 06:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

RWC07 nations need work

• Namibia and the Pacific sides really really need some sort of collaboration!! Goldman07 04:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Very little is available online about the Pacific sides, unless some has been added in the last couple of years. Virtually nothing is written about Pacific rugby in England and there are no project members from Pacific countries. Namibia is even more obscure.GordyB 09:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thats not true. There is quite a bit of information out there on Pacific rugby. Also there is at least one Pacific Islander that's a Project member (User:Cometstyles). There is even a Fiji work group (WikiProject Rugby union/Fiji). I have been working on the Waisale Serevi article lately, and the fact that he is Fijian has not been a problem. Anyway the point is that people can contribute to Pacific Island rugby articles. I'm not so sure about Namibia though; havn't looked into that. - Shudda ^talk 09:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

If people try they can easily expand these articles. Even by going through a list of results I have made out decent history sections. History, player, stats and everything else can easily be expanded upon of Tonga/Samoa/Namibia. For example, why not have a WC competition record? Its good info and adds a bit to the article. Cvene64 10:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It's much easier to find player information than information on a national team or club for some reason. If you have access to information that I cannot find then I'd be greatful if you could expand Pacific Tri-Nations, I simply cannot find the winners of some tournamments on the internet.GordyB 18:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Crusaders article on main page

Hey. Please read this everyone. I need people to spend a couple of minutes reading over my main page request for the Crusaders here. Can people check for grammar and spelling. Also double check facts (they should be fine). I'm not asking for a silly edit war or anything about a trivial point, but spelling & grammar etc I am paranoid about so please look at that. Although it's not a vote, adding some support may be worthwhile if you want the article mainpaged also. cheers. - Shudda ^talk 10:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration of the Fortnight

Hey, the current collaboration has been inactive for a while. There have been a number of nominations recently. Please take a look at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Collaboration of the fortnight page and vote if you are interested in helping out with a particular article. Also if you have an article you want help with, nominate it there. - Shudda ^talk 23:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Unofficial Rugby World Cup

This is a biggie. I've been reading about the Unofficial Football World Championships, and wonder what the equivalent would be in Rugby. If the first holders of the title were the winners of the first world cup, then it's a relatively small (but still significant) job. If we take it from the first international, then it's a huge job. I wouldn't know where to start - but I'd love to know the result! Who is the Unofficial Rugby World Champion? Murkee 19:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The point of the article is that the phrase Unofficial Football World Championships existed before the article did. If you have to invent the phrase to justify an article then it isn't notable.GordyB 19:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The article used to exist (the answer is Wales) but was deleted in December last year. Saebhiar Adishatz 21:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought I remembered seeing it.GordyB 21:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It won't be Wales anymore.... or so I thought. A quick glance of the 6N results seem to show that Wales reclaimed it from England Murkee 21:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The article was deleted. Prob not worth creating again because would be deleted again. - Shudda ^talk 22:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

New collaboration of the fortnight

France national rugby union team is now the collaboration of the fortnight. The French language Wikipedia article on the France team is a featured article so we hope to get the English language one to the same standard. Please contribute where you can. Also, I have raised the issue of voting numbers for the collaboration of the fortnight on it's talk page here. Currently three support votes are needed and opposing votes do not count. Contribute your views at the talk page. Thanks. - Shudda ^talk 23:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Link spam

itsrugby.com is everywhere. This is a particular poor website with very little content (and not always in English either) yet it is in the external links of many pages. I have been removing it where I see it. I suspect that somebody connected with the site keeps adding it to Wikipedia. If you see it please delete it.GordyB 15:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how, but you may be able to get a bot to trawl through wikipedia removing it from articles. - Shudda ^talk 22:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I've no idea either.GordyB 22:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I've cleaned out the links (except in a couple of places they were cited as sources). RJASE1 ^Talk 16:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This link shows where the website is currently referenced if you want to replace citations with some better sources. Cheers - RJASE1 ^Talk 16:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I didn't know you could do that.GordyB 18:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Heineken Cup finals

I have updated this page so that all the matches are in the {{rugbybox}} template. However, I couldn't find data for the times when points were scored in the earlier finals, so if anyone could help with that, it would be much appreciated PeeJay 21:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

training structure, centre

Please, i don't have this information : have you got in England for the national team, a structure like:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_national_du_rugby union rugby http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_technique_national_Fernand-Sastre football

?

And in this case, some source ?

Dd Ddfree 18:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Nowhere specifically for rugby but Lilleshall is used for football. See National Sports Centres. GordyB 17:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Before a game in Twickenham Stadium, where the England national rugby union team is working, what structure England Rugby union has put in place ? or is done to better results ? Dd Ddfree 20:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Players are always described as training 'at Twickenham'. I think there are training facilities near the stadium.19:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the England rugby team does some of its training and preparation at Loughborough University. PeeJay 20:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

They do, Loughbrough is famous for its sports science. They've had some particularly good rugby coaches too. It's not entirely coincidental that Leicester Tigers are one of the top sides in Europe as they are just down the road.GordyB 22:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[news bbc] [news lions] The new-look England squad meet at Loughbrough University on Sunday for their first training session of the season. Dd Ddfree 12:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC) Ddfree 11:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Waisale Serevi

Hey, I have been working on Waisale Serevi for the last month (almost to the day) and I believe it could be a FA with a little work. I've looked at some of the sports related biographical FA's and I do think that we could get this article to that standard with a little work. I have nominated it for the collaboration of the fortnight, but failing that would appreciate any help. My one major problem up till this point was finding a free image of him but I've been able to do that now. There is a to-do list on the articles talk page that specifies what I think needs to be done to get the article to FA quality. Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially a good copy-edit and any information on his recent career. The lead also needs to be expanded. Hopefully most of the gaps can be filled with information available online. Thanks. - Shudda ^talk 02:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Category needs to be created

Category:Non-article rugby union pages is linked to by your talk page template but doesnt excist , i'd create it my self but i dont know the parent category, anyway keep up the good work from me and WP:GAA (Gnevin 23:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC))

Can someone please see too this?(Gnevin 18:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC))

Who created this and why?GordyB 19:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Results in Test infobox

I think we should use {{ENGru}}/{{RevereseENGru}} in the Test team infoboxes where it has worst/best/first games. Would look heaps better than just [[England national rugby union team|England]]. If no one objects, I'd like to change this. Goldman07 16:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• Not a bad Idea,I have no objections because I was thinking about doing the same thing regarding Sevens Rugby..--Cometstyles 16:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Challenge Cup

There is a discussion about whether the Rugby League Challenge Cup should be moved to Challenge Cup. Those with an opinion see Talk:Rugby League Challenge Cup.GordyB 09:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Club categories

I think we should create a category for each club, and its players like Category:Harlequin F.C. (incluing club, stadium etc) and within that Category:Harlequin F.C. players. The football teams all have them, and I think they are really helpful. A handful of NZ, English and French teams partly have them, but I propose we make them for at least the teams in the:

• Super 14
• Magners League
• Guinness Premiership
• National Division One
• Top 14
• Rugby Pro D2
• Currie Cup
• Air New Zealand Cup
• Top League

Also, it should probably be footballers instead of players. Is there anyway we can get a bot to set all theses up, as it would take ages! Can someone find out? Goldman07 12:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Entente Cordiale

Nobody wants (or is able) to better England national rugby union team in order to make a featured article... I hope that fr:Équipe d'Angleterre de rugby à XV will be a featured article... and it should be easier if the english article is better... And it is easier to better english article with the help of french model... Dd Ddfree 17:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ronald Cove-Smith

Anybody is able to say the position that Ronald Cove-Smith plays ? Dd Ddfree 21:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

He was a Lock --necronudist 08:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Dd Ddfree 07:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

England national rugby union team

• England national rugby union team
• fr:Équipe d'Angleterre de rugby à XV will be a featured article ? Wait and see... Ddfree 12:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
• fr:Wikipédia:Proposition articles de qualité/Équipe d'Angleterre de rugby à XV: Cet article a été promu comme article de qualité en vertu de ce vote. Ddfree 11:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Very impressive. I was particularly curious about the fact that England seem to have a nickname in French but not one in English (XV de la rose).GordyB 12:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• In France, we are very surprised to be a frog, we don't understand why ... Ddfree 18:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

New Zealand sevens

For a team that had been the reigning champions in the IRB Sevens World Series for six years, its a shame to see that there are so less articles created on its current and past players and I wonder if there is anyone that can actually start creating articles or at least {{Rugby-bio-stub}} on some of its current and past stars that took New Zealand rugby to great heights between 1999-2006..--Cometstyles 15:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it is a shame, maybe list them at the requested articles page, and add them to the {{WPRU Announcements}} template? - Shudda ^talk 00:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Rugby Union/Selected article

Hey, I have been keeping this updated for some time now. Last year I created the current archive with one article per month, I've tried to limit it to Featured Articles and Good Articles. However we are going to run out, and I don't want to put the same articles up again. Are there some articles that may be good enough to be the selected article on the portal? Any suggestions would be great, preferably with a suitable free image (not a fair use one). Go to Portal:Rugby union to see more. - Shudda ^talk 04:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Serevi?--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 04:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm....Maybe those players coaches and teams that have won IRB Awards..maybe..--Cometstyles 04:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a Selected biography section as well, so that would go there. Selected article would be anything but a biography. - Shudda ^talk 05:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I have started listing possible articles on the archive's talk page here. - Shudda ^talk 09:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Waisale Serevi FAC

I have nominated Waisale Serevi for FAC. It's be great for a biographical article to be an FA, and this guy is a great player. You can leave your comments here. Any comments are welcome, and if there are concerns raised any help addressing them would be fully appreciated. Many hands make light work! Thanks. - Shudda ^talk 07:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Habana vs Cheetah

Did Habana really race against a cheetah in a 100 metre race as stated by this CNN site??....--Cometstyles 16:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Sharks Rugby

I have only just signed up to the Project. Apologies if I am new to the ettiquette here. There don't seem to be many South African contributors? I am of course a Sharks supporter and intend to spend a lot of time updating some of the woeful lack of content. There is no article on Henry Honiball for one. I have laid my hands on a a fair numbe rof player pen pictures and the copyright issues have been sorted. I will work on a couple of the players and submit for Peer review. Don't be too harsh onm me 1st up (-; --Tiucsib 16:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the project. You are quite correct, there are not nearly enough South African editors of the rugby union pages. I look forward to reading your articles.GordyB 17:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Jake White Article Bias

I am no lover of Jake White but the article suffers from many flaws

• Format is appalling. Can you recommend a good coaches templete to me?
• Anti Jake White bias is obvious. The writer thinks he is in a chat room
• Expression and grammar are poor.

Once I have the template I will do my best to create an objective start point but I will need other contributors to help. Thanks --Tiucsib 16:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I fixed and removed most POV form the article but it might need a bit more cleanup in terms of creating infoboxes and adding more external links and sources...--Cometstyles 10:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will do my best to take it forward. Busy with AJ Venter right now--Tiucsib 05:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)-Tiucsib 05:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

2007 Super 14 table

I added this template {{2007 Super 14 Table}} to all Super 14 teams except for the Crusaders because its a featured article using the same format as the Guinness Premiership (2006-07 Guinness Premiership) so each team will have their own table until the end of the season..I hope its OK with everyone..--Cometstyles 11:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

S14 page names - should be sorted out once and for all

The constant moving and changing of the S14 team articles is crazy, they are moved so often that all templates and other links are constantly broken, out of use. I propose we set out where they should be, and then leave it at that. All the Australian teams (except Brum.) are fine, as they need no disambiguation, as well as the Cheetahs and Stormers. But the rest:

• Crusaders (rugby) --> No change
• Bulls (Super rugby franchise) --> Bulls (rugby)
• Lions (Super rugby franchise) --> Lions (rugby)
• Highlanders (Super rugby franchise) --> Highlanders (rugby)
• Blues (Super rugby franchise) --> Blues (rugby)
• Brumbies (rugby) --> No change
• Sharks (Super rugby franchise) --> Sharks (rugby)
• Bulls (Super rugby franchise) --> Bulls (rugby)
• Chiefs (Super rugby franchise) --> Chiefs (rugby)
• Hurricanes (Super rugby franchise) --> Hurricanes (rugby)

Of course other rugby teams are known by these nicknames, but not exclusively, so on the Sharks page, we have a link to Shark (disambiguation), and Lions, Lion (disambiguation) etc etc. All good. The reason for the naming, it is simple and clear, Crusaders is FA class which means its current name should set the standard. Super rugby franchise is not even a real/common term. Its also very long and complicates things when they shouldnt be. Goldman07 13:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I have moved the Brumbies and Waratahs yesterday to the format you mentioned above but its hard to do for most teams as it would create double redirects. You changed Waratahs back to the old format (New South Wales Waratahs)<I dont know why>. The best thing to do is to create REDIRECTS because it would be weird to see some teams such ( Crusaders (rugby)) with rugby in their name and some without it (Stormers ) and I dont see any other good option and similar moves has been discussed before (see..Talk:Chiefs and Talk:Blues) but no consensus was reached..--Cometstyles 14:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Comets, Waratahs is only part of the name, why would you move it? It is simply wrong. Crusaders is like that because they have no state/city in their name. I don't understand your reasoning here either...by no means do all the pages have to match up...ie all have (rugby), that is not the point. The ones that require no disambiguation (Cheetahs, Stormers, Force, Reds, Waratahs) stay where they are, and for the others, a system should be in place ---> ie team name (rugby). There is no need to make Stormers Stormers (rugby) as Stormers is avalable, so it makes no sense to move around pages that need no disambiguation. Goldman07 15:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Support - I dont think there is any reason all the teams need to have their names in the same format. I agree with Goldman's original suggestion that we keep those names that don't need any disambiguation (so New South Wales Waratahs, Queensland Reds, Western Force, Stormers, Cheetahs) and standardise those that do to have (rugby) as their suffix. The Crusaders page was originally Crusaders but this got changed to a redirect to Crusade (I opposed this change). So when this happened we renamed it Crusaders (rugby) because I though Super rugby or Super rugby franchise was too long. I think when someone searches for the Blues for example they would search for "Blues rugby team" or something, not "super rugby franchise" or "rugby union team". So I think Goldman's suggestions are the most sensible. - Shudda ^talk 20:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Nation vs nation articles

I think we should create more articles like All Blacks vs Springboks. I was looking through some on the French WP, and they have a series for every top tier nation v each other. See here. Goldman07 14:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, see down the bottom, it has a navigation for each series for both teams. Really good idea in my opinion. Goldman07 14:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Excellent idea. Its my favourite match-up. Happy to participate

What I suggest we do is design the template and take a section or two ourselves.I have a few books mainly covering the 1976 and 1981 test series. To me the tours (pre-Tri-Nations) are more interesting than the current Tri Nations match ups.. I also have all the data for the other series. Lets collaborate --Tiucsib 16:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Waisale Serevi - please read!

This article is on the Fijian Sevens player, and has been an FAC since April 16. I have had very little feedback. At this point there are a couple of comments, and two supports, with no opposes. I would really like if some people here could take the time to read the article and either add a support, or oppose comment to the FAC. If an oppose is placed, please give reasons so I can address them. Either way though I'd really like some feedback otherwise this will remain an FAC for quite some time (it won't be promoted unless it's been voted on by a decent number of editors). - Shudda ^talk 23:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

David Campese

This article needs to be wikified and bought up to quality standards. The article is quite large, and isn't too badly written, but certainly needs a few people to read over it and add internal links etc. Should probably should have it's weasel words and any POV statements removed as well. Anyone willing to spend 10 mins going through it would be great. - Shudda ^talk 23:51, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Qualification Criteria for a Player Article

I am working on a few player articles in parallel. John Smit, Bob Skinstad, Butch James, AJ Venter, Gary Teichmann. Its no coincidence that these are all Sharks players.

My question is what qualifies a player to have an article? Obviously National Team status would but what about S14 team? I realise that there is no absolute rule but I am interested in the opinions of others. As it is I have well over 2 years work (@ a couple of hours a week) on just the Sharks Springboks. So some Sharks lovers (or just rugby lovers) please join in --Tiucsib 07:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

AFAIK the any player who has played one professional game can have an article. S14 being professional, any first team player should be eligible.GordyB 08:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Brian Wood (rugby player)

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Brian Wood (rugby player), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Hoary 08:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

More images

There is a lack of photos in Wikipedia Commons... So if you are an australian contributor or if you see some Super 14 match or Wallabies match, please take some photos and the rights to put them in Commons to better Autralian footballer articles and Australia national rugby union team's article... thanks a lot and good work... Many pleasure to read your contributions... Ddfree 10:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)