Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 May 5

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May 5

A short term for scaling up/ mass production difficulty

I'm looking for a short term (for a presentation) to describe the difficulty of scaling up from a small scale laboratory experiment to a large scale industrial production process.
I came up with "Hard to mass produce" or "Difficulty in scaling up" but i'm not sure it's just right. Any suggestions?
Thanks 192.114.105.254 (talk) 07:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Diseconomies of scale may fit. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Difficulties with transition to volume production? Widneymanor (talk) 10:07, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

A diseconomy of scale is an added cost per unit as production batches increase in size. I am guessing that you don't intend to say that you can produce something more cheaply in a laboratory than you could through mass production, but rather that your laboratory process would not work or would require a lot of adaptation to work at an industrial scale. You could say that your laboratory process lacks scalability, or is not easily scalable. If you want to say this in a presentation, your presentation would be stronger if you went on to explain the key features of the laboratory process that are not easily scalable. It would be even stronger if you could suggest what would have to change for the process to be scalable. Marco polo (talk) 12:43, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Metric body height

Polling those in countries on the metric system. For a person's height, which is more common and/or preferred, meters metres with a decimal fraction (1.88 m), or centimeters centimetres without (188 cm)? I hope this qualifies as "language". ―Mandruss ☎ 16:44, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

A good way to check, unofficially, would be perhaps to check sports statistics websites from various countries; since many countries have national soccer (football) leagues, checking the rosters of such teams from those countries may give some indication. For example, the EPL lists height in meters: [1], but the Bundesliga uses centimeters: [2]. Of course, because it is used in that one context, that one time wouldn't necessarily mean it makes a difference. It is entirely possible (and even likely) that the two forms are used interchangeably, and neither is preferred. There is always the possibility (very likely, indeed) that it doesn't matter. --Jayron32 16:53, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I think at least in speech meters are preferred, certainly in German and Russian. In German, "188 cm" sounds less natural than "1 Meter 88" (but still acceptable), and it sounds positively weird in Russian. WP:OR, thus no sources Asmrulz (talk) 17:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

In English, in my experience, one would use neither. "One metre eighty-eight" would be used. DuncanHill (talk) 17:51, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I should have said I'm referring only to written forms. Would it be more common to spell it out? ―Mandruss ☎ 17:56, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

In case you're referring to my AmEng spelling in a BritEng context, I have corrected that. ―Mandruss ☎ 18:09, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

That's ok, it wasn't about US spelling, I assumed you meant in speech, rather than on a written form. I think in that case metres with decimal fractions (1.88m) would be more common. DuncanHill (talk) 00:01, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Again it appears I've been unclear. By "written forms", I meant writing as opposed to speech, not pieces of paper that you fill out. Usage in common everyday prose would be fine. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:30, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll just note that I've never heard 1.88 m pronounced "one meter eighty-eight" in North America. The only units I can think of where we in North America use the unit name between two numbers like that are feet and dollars, and they work differently. With feet, the singular "foot" is always used: "two foot five" means 2 feet and 5 inches. With dollars, it's only done when the amount is between $1 and $2, and usually only with the article "a" before "dollar": "a dollar five" means 1 dollar and 5 cents. Sorry, no cites, I'm speaking of personal experience. --174.88.134.161 (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

In spoken South African English "one point seven eight metres" is common and it's usually written "1.78 m". Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:00, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

In France, a 180cm person's height is always said "un mètre quatre-vingt", litterally "one metre eighty". 178cm, "Un mètre soixante-dix-huit", litterally "one metre seventy-eight". Saying a person's height in centimetres would sound odd. Akseli9 (talk) 04:31, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Back to the original question: in my area (former Yugoslavia) the two forms are used interchangeably, with a preference towards "188 cm"; I presume it is similar across the Europe. When spoken, it would be usually pronounced [the equivalent of] "metre eighty-eight" in a colloquial setting regardless of written form (in a more formal reading, it could be "[a] hundred eighty-eight centimeters"). No such user (talk) 06:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I went for a routine check-up at my local health centre here in the UK the other week, and I noticed the chart had 1.75 on it, but was amused to see her write 5'9" on my case notes (we are still not fully metric). When spoken, 'one-seventy-five' would also be accepatable, even 'one-seven-five'. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 09:32, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

(Slavo-) Macedonian folk song

I'm looking for help with the song Татковина. I posted a question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Republic of Macedonia#Татковина, but that WP seems to be not much maintained, so I'm wondering if someone here knows more about (Slavo-) Macedonian. — Sebastian 18:11, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

• Well, googling it gives this video, with the song and the English description it is a children's song. Can you be more clear as to what you want to know? μηδείς (talk) 01:23, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

You made a mistake right in the first line, should be Ми подари пролета сонце. I always wonder why for "Latin-scripters" the distinction between и and н is so difficult. Also насмевка and росно. Everything else seems correct. Note: I do not know West Bulgarian Slavo-Macedonian, I just checked against the original.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 04:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

• Latin-scripters may at least find it a little bit funny that Greek ΗΝ became Cyrillic ИН. —Tamfang (talk) 20:47, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

See wikt:мој#Inflection.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 04:36, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

The song in the video provided by Medeis is a different song. It is a Bulgarian patriotic song with lyrics by Petko Slaveykov and music by Emanuil Manolov.

Regarding the song that Sebastian is actually asking about:

The Macedonian lyrics shall be as follows:

Ми подари пролетта сонце Јас насмевка нежна ѝ пратив А сега во срцево мое Љубовта нежна се класи Татковино, поле сирно Мир во света гора Татковино, поле росно Љубовта е моја

Mi podari proletta sonce Jas nasmevka nežna ì prativ A sega vo srcevo moe Ljubovta nežna se klasi Tatkovino, pole sirno Mir vo sveta gora Tatkovino, pole rosno Ljubovta e moja

A few points regarding Sebastian's questions here:

• Apart from the и-н confusion, you seem to also have confused с (pronounced /s/) with ѕ (which is pronounced /dz/).
• In both spelling and pronunciation, it's мое /moe/, not моје /moje/. Macedonian and Bulgarian have only /e/ and no /je/ in native vocabulary, in contrast to the other Slavic languages, which have only /je/ and no /e/ in native vocabulary.
• It actually is пролетта "the spring" (notice the double -тт-): пролет "spring" (the season) + -та (definite article). I couldn't quite understand why you think there should be a љ in that word. According to the prescribed norm, the letter л in the combinations ле, ли, лј has the same pronunciation that the letter љ has in other positions, so only л is written before е.
• Word-finally or before a voiceless consonant, the letter в is pronounced as a voiceless ф /f/. So in the words насмевка, пратив and љубовта, the orthographic в's stand for /f/'s.

See also Ѝ#Bulgarian and Macedonian.

Hope that helps. --Theurgist (talk) 12:17, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

... in contrast to the other Slavic languages, which have only /je/ and no /e/ in native vocabulary. Actually, Russian has both: e for /je/ and э for /e/. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:18, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

But see Э#⟨Э⟩ in modern Russian. With the notable exceptions of этот and a couple more mentioned there, the э is only used in non-native words: экономика, электричество, этаж, эхо, поэт, дуэль. Generally, initial and post-vocalic /e/'s are iotified in the Slavic languages (/je/), but this has been lost in Bulgarian and Macedonian. --Theurgist (talk) 06:37, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'll be buggered. μηδείς (talk) 15:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Categorizing help

Hello, I need help with this friends, its to do with 'palm mounts', I've done the embolden one, I need help with the rest...my brain is not working... Can someone help me with this please. Catagorise using "/", also check if the embolden one is correct...

Flat/missing/undeveloped/absent

unpronounced, Normal size, Elevated, Fleshy, Prominence/prominent, Well developed, Very well developed, Overly developed, under developed, ordinarily prominent, ordinarily developed, normally elevated, Very big, High, firm, High, Spongy, Low, Developed more than the necessary, Flabby, Protruded, Mr. Prophet (talk) 19:20, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Mr. Prophet. You'll need to explain what these relate to, and what help you want, because I haven't the slightest idea (and the phrase "palm mount" conveys nothing - or rather, it conveys several possible meanings, all of them unlikely). --ColinFine (talk) 19:44, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello, I hope you are well ColinFine. I can't really explain but I can give an example of what I mean, for example, as I was reading about the mounts of the palm (hand) I found the following words 'Flat, Missing, Undeveloped, Absent'. I guessed that they all mean the same thing, e.g., if a mount is 'missing' than it means it is 'flat' or 'undeveloped' or 'absent', so in order to memorise it I put them in a whole like 'Flat/missing/undeveloped/absent', I'm finding it difficult to do the same with the rest of the words I stated. -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 20:06, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm guessing that Russell Mo has been reading something like this. Since this is the Language desk, and not the Science desk, I won't make any comment about it. Dbfirs 21:05, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

No, good that you mentioned though, I have a query about this website and its information, can't quite recall what it was... -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 06:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

_{Palmistry is sure to get a warm welcome on the Science desk.} - X201 (talk) 21:12, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm in rushing everything right now, I'll move it soon -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 06:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Or with an open palm. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Lol. -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 06:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

So, Mr. Prophet, you're asking for precision in an area of hoodwink-the-gullible-customer charlatanry. It's possible that there might be some books listing terms of art (though if there are, don't expect any consistency between them). It's much more likely that there are no standards for terminology, and each practitioner uses whatever terms they see fit. In which case there is no objective answer to your question. --ColinFine (talk) 08:17, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@ColinFine: Okay , I'll move this to the science desk and see if anyone can help me catagorising it... Thank you! -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 18:36, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@X201 and Dbfirs: You guys weren't funny, I didn't laugh until after a day, it was worse than Charlie Chaplin's movie because it wasn't obvious, probably the first worse joke of 2015. I'll make a formal request to put it in the Guiness World Record book of 2015. -- Mr. Prophet (talk) 08:35, 7 May 2015 (UTC)