User talk:Scartol/Archives/2007/October

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Tutorial

I will definitely give the template tutorial a beta-test (or two or three), but I'm really busy right now, so it may take me a while to get to it (2-3 weeks). I hope that is ok. Awadewit | talk 19:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

User pic?

Hey there. I found your userpage through the Help desk's section on userpage design; I hope you won't mind answering a wee question. I'm interested in adding a picture of myself to Scartol, but the thought of uploading such a thing to the Commons seems odd to me. (A picture of my ugly face in the same collection as Seurat?) Is there some other way to include a picture of myself, to be used solely on my userpage? Thanks in advance for the help. – Scartol · Talk 13:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Unless they've changed the procedure since the last time I checked, you could upload it to Wikipedia or to Commons. Keep in mind that your picture might be reused anywhere; more than one user pic has been placed in the encyclopedia itself. Though if it turns up in the articles geek, dork, or nerd, for instance, you would be justified in removing it (due to defamation of character). The Transhumanist    20:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I am going to rudely insert myself here and mention that The Transhumanist has some very helpful tutorial pages and might be able to offer you, Scartol, advice on your template tutorial. (Also, might you restrict the license of the photograph to your userpage, however un-wiki that is?) Awadewit | talk 20:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Balzac

Thanx, first for a magnificent Balzac article, 2nd for putting my French reference (see below) in the correct alphabetical order. I'm rather new at Wikipedia, & didn't know whether foreign-language books were listed separately, or (as indeed correct in a printed bibliography), seamlessly integrated into the single list itself, independently of language.

Now I know!

Do not worry about the reference's quality or even "notability". The Dictionnaire bibliographique des personnages fictifs de la C.H., while oldish & difficult to obtain, is one of the most classic Balzac references of all. It lists *every single* of the (c3000?) C.H. characters just like a real Who's Who, plus the details of where & in which books they appear & reappear. (You probably know it already & I'm insulting you by writing this!!)

I'm glad you didn't revert the Recherche du temps perdu spelling. The new spelling is correct, as verified on the French WikiP Proust article, not that I had any real doubts. I scanned (somewhat cursorily) the rest of the English Balzac article for French typos, & didn't seem to find any.

(I speak & write French like a native, & have an Oxford MA in Philosophy & French literature, so don't hesitate to contact me for proofreading of a similar nature.)

Greetings, & once again congratulations on a brilliant Balzac project.

--Niels Peter Q 21:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

FAC

If you have a moment, perhaps you could comment on A Vindication of the Rights of Men? It is currently up for FAC here. Thanks. Awadewit | talk 22:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Davidian Revolution

This is just a reminder that this article has been on hold for 16 days. Lara❤Love 16:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what you're supposed to do! Thank them for their hard work thus far, tell them you're sure it will pass once the issues you've listed have been addressed, and wish them luck. Lara❤Love 16:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Ook oop

Thank you for adding the monkey picture to the MonkeyFilter userbox. Cheers! – Scartol · Talk 22:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

That's fine ! > Rugby471 ^talk ⚔ 07:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you following the VRM FAC?

If you are following the VRM FAC, perhaps you can see why I have some reservations about your style template. :) I think it would work in an ideal world, but, alas, we don't live in an ideal world. Awadewit | talk 15:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

So, as of this moment, I have to say I am against the style template. See Talk:A Vindication of the Rights of Men. Ask me again in six months when I am less biased. :) Awadewit | talk 05:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Shiva image

I agree. But many people, strangely, do view images this way.

Scartol, noted that you lived in Madison. I went to law school at UW. Thanks for your comments!!!

Raj2004 01:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Peer review request

If you have some time in the next month or two, would you mind peer reviewing Joseph Priestley? I would owe you many favors, as it is a long and complex article. Awadewit | talk 06:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Balzac

A pledge to the Balzac project would be meaningless - I don't have the time. I'd much rather be an ad hoc copyeditor (copyediting is less hard work for me), when you have a text at a reasonably ready stage, & want to fine tune the French details. Do not hesitate.

La Peau de chagrin, you write. Ah. In my opinion only "La" should be capitalized, but I checked on French WikiP, & they seem also to capitalize the first noun after the first article: La Comédie humaine; Le Lys dans la vallée, La Peau de chagrin, etc.

At least for Balzac books! A la recherche du temps perdu, in the FrWikiP articles on that topic, is not spelled with the word Recherche capitalized. (So my edit to your Balzac article stands.) Confusing.

My recommendation, obviously, is to follow the French WikiP Balzac style, at least when dealing with him, & always to check FrWikiP when in the least doubt.

Bye for now.

--Nielspeterq 00:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I notice you've got the "This user published a book" userbox. What's it (they?) on? Is it in English? – Scartol · Talk 18:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• It's a book about the renaissance, 1400-1600, & what we can learn from it today. Unfortunately it's not in English. It was published in Denmark some years ago, & well received, but not translated. --Nielspeterq 10:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wiki-code guru, will you answer my plea?

As I sense that you might be someone who, like me, is annoyed my unorganized and unaligned things, would you mind taking a look at my userpage? My userboxes are annoyingly off-kilter right now and I don't know why. Thanks. Awadewit | talk 20:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Questions answered

Hi there. Sorry - I only just noticed your questions on my talk page (I got so much other stuff on there that I didn't see it before). To answer:

1. When I say I'm a monarchist, I mean I'm a supporter of constitutional monarchy - these days I believe the term generally refers to this rather than the idea of absolute monarchy.
2. I generally think organic farming is a bad thing because the yields are so much lower than commercial farming that you would need to cut down half the rainforest in order to produce the same amount of food. If the use of fertiliser and pesticide/herbicide is carefully regulated (which it is in the EU) then the side-effects of eutrophication etc. can almost be eliminated. Slightly off-topic, but I once had a university lecturer who was dead against anyone drinking tea or coffee - saying it was the biggest waste of productive land (as you get so little nutrition from them) there is!

пﮟოьεԻ 57 07:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Reply to your Question

It occurred to me today that you might not see my reply to your latest question. I replied yesterday, but put it at the bottom of the Balzac heading on your Discussion page, where our previous interaction occurred. Hope you find it. --Nielspeterq 18:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Template

I'll get to it as soon as I can, but Tony is the better person to ask (I see you've asked him already). Math is problematic; for a balanced, knowledgeable and fair editor, I suggest you ask Rick Block (talk · contribs). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I gave some more thought to that template; I hadn't had my quota of coffee when I read it this morning. As someone who used to spend a large anount of time cleaning up talk page clutter, I've got to say I really hate redundant templates. It will be just another thing taking up space on the talk page, and I don't really see what it will accomplish in return. By reading the article, all of those choices will be clear, so I'm not liking the idea of cluttering the talk page with yet another template. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I sympathize with SandyGeorgia's need for talk page organization. Some talk pages have a ridiculous number of templates on them. However, I think that the decision should be based on utility. I'm not entirely sure I agree that the template is redundant, since some articles are anything but standardized. My biggest concern is that other editors will view it as instruction creep or some sort of requirement. I would hate to see that happen - I would like to see it used as a helpful reminder. I could also see it prompting large debates that would never have happened without it - the decisions would have been made silently and easily. With a template, the decisions are forced into the open. Perhaps transparency is better, but I do have concerns. That is why I thought a trial run might let us know how it would work "in the real wiki-world". I have mixed feelings - the organizer in me desires such checklists but the realist in me has seen wiki-battles over very minor issues and would like to avoid those. Can I just keep weighing the pros and cons ad infinitum? Awadewit | talk 02:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Sandy and Awadewit are more experienced editors than myself so I'm deferential to their judgment. I'm personally somewhat ambivalent about the Manual of Style. I happily make MoS fixes when requested, but I don't know the MoS well myself, and I find it hard to keep track of which arbitrary preferences are allowed and which are not. As for the template tutorial, I'm reasonably good with templates, but don't have a knack for tutorial-style writing. I'll give it a look over and see if I have any useful insights. I'll just leave them on the talk page for the tutorial. Now, where I can be of use is Achebe -- I found a number of good papers and will add any relevant details over the course of the week. --JayHenry 19:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The hide is better, enabling the small option is even better, but I still worry about talk page templates. (Have a look at this old prize.) I don't care enough to oppose it, but have you checked with Tony1 (talk · contribs)? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:Template tutorial

You wrote:

In any case, Awadewit suggested that – given your fine work creating tutorials for other folks – you might be willing to take a glance at a tutorial I made about using templates? I found the documentation about templates to be very tech-heavy and confusing, so I made a guide for noobs scratching their heads like I did back when. Any thoughts or feedback you'd care to offer are appreciated. Thanks again and in advance for this new request. – Scartol · Talk 23:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow! I missed this thread. Sorry for this delayed reply. I like your tutorial, and I invite you to add it to the VC lessons collection. Let me know, and I'll rename/move it over. Before it "goes live" (i.e., announced everywhere and added to the VC lessons template), my students and I (I'm a Wikipedia coach) will copy-edit it. :-) My first observation is that your tutorial should open with a definition of what a template is and a brief explanation of how they work. I hope that helps, and I look forward to your reply. The Transhumanist    18:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

No sweat on the delay; I can tell you're very busy. Thank you much for your kind feedback. I will indeed add the suggested intro section, and offer it to the VC lessons section. (I've also just learned about #if, so I plan to add a section on that. Thank you for the invite and support! – Scartol · Talk 18:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I'll move it in the next couple of days or so, and will let everyone know to help get it ready. The Transhumanist    18:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Achebe

I'll take a look over the next two days. I very much admire Chinua Achebe: I think both Things Fall Apart and A Man of the People are brilliant novels, though I couldn't get into Arrow of God or Anthills of the Savannah, for some reason.qp10qp 00:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit

Hi Scartol, I was wondering if you would be able to copy edit the Battle of Dyrrhachium. If you could it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Kyriakos 06:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the copy edit and the question on the talk page. It was much appreciated. Kyriakos 21:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Things fall together

I'll take a look later on (at work at the moment).

Red links are a good idea for any subject which deserves an article in the future, I think. There's no point in a red link for something for which there is unlikely ever to be an article, though. Red links, in my opinion, are a good way for someone who knows particular terrain, as you do Achebe, to tip Wikipedia off about what is needed for the future. Sometimes one can make the article oneself later. The trouble with stubs is that they may be deleted if they are too cursory. There's nothing against red links at FAC; I often think they're a sign of a thoughtful article.

Length is fine. Over 80kb is when the concern starts, I think. For me, anyway.

qp10qp 10:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

• And Joseph Priestley is 81kb. [sighs dramatically] :) Awadewit | talk 11:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Wollstonecraft featured topic

I have nominated the Wollstonecraft articles for a featured topic. Awadewit | talk 11:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

• Could you take a look at Qp's comments at Talk:Timeline of Mary Wollstonecraft? I don't really know what to do to fix the problem. Thanks. Awadewit | talk 18:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Candide

I've finally gotten around to dealing (in some way) with all of your concerns about Candide, and I wanted to thank you profusely for voicing them. I really appreciate the effort you put forth to improve the article at only my request: the article is undoubtedly better for your criticism. I shall, after another copyedit or two, renominate the article for GA status and I have no doubt that it will pass this time. Wikipedia needs more editors like you: ones with high academic standards, even for GA status, which some editors dismiss as meaningless. Thanks again! -- Rmrfstar 19:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip; but I think I'll keep it big if shrinking it is the only fix, as I look at my talk page more than anyone else, I expect. -- Rmrfstar 15:16, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Society of the Song Dynasty

Hello, I was referred to you by wiki member Awadewit for help in copy-editing the Song Dynasty sub-article Society of the Song Dynasty, which is now on FAC review. I was wondering if you had any spare time to go through the text. Awadewit says it's a bit wordy, and I agree, although I have already combed through it and cannot decide what to cut down on or what to reword in order to tighten the article up a bit. If you could do anything that would be a great help. Thank you.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 16:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem, take your time dude.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 06:03, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

template tutorial

How about simply adjusting the scope so that the statement vanishes in the absence of {{{1}}}? #if: is best used when you need a template fragment to appear/disappear or drastically change depending on the presence of a variable (other things are better done with other parserfunctions, such as #switch:). Circeus 18:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

{{#if:{{{1|}}}|''{{{1|}}}'' is the best show ever.|}}

Scartol, I have a question for you

In your own words, what is a template? The Transhumanist    03:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

re: Achebe, Hughes, and Sunshine

You're very welcome for the Achebe FAC support! I almost never review articles for FAC, but after I spent nearly half an hour glued to my computer screen, I couldn't not offer a few pretty words. I read Things Fall Apart in AP English and it's always stayed with me. Superb job putting the article together!

Thanks for the compliment regarding the Hughes Brothers, but I technically didn't start the article; I think it was a 170-or-so word stub when I began plumping it up. I agree that American Pimp wasn't as good as their earlier work, but how do you top Menace II Society? I mean, honestly. Wow. They really need to make another film.

I'm in Jacksonville, though I might as well be in Gainesville -- go Gators, right? It finally started getting cold here (cold meaning 65 degrees, of course), so there hasn't been that much sunshine lately. Nice to meet you, by the way. :) María (críticame) 14:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Award

		The Template Barnstar
		What a wonderful template tutorial! I am so happy that it is being featured on the community portal - now more editors can benefit from your excellent teaching skills! Awadewit | talk 03:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The centre can hold

I honestly think the less fuss the better, to be honest. Let Roger oppose on those grounds if he wants. I don't advise you to get drawn into an argument which would disfigure the page and give people the impression there's something amiss with the article. Let his oppose stand, and leave it, I would. Unless he fetches a posse, that is the best way, because you have enough supports that his opposition doesn't matter.qp10qp 16:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear grief! You see me at the blood-dimmed tide! I don't know whether to amused, flattered or horrified. In the circumstances, I think bemused is best :) --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 13:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia weekly userbox

Hi there, user:awadewit suggested that you might be able to help me...

As you might know I've interviewed a bunch of people for the Wikipedia weekly podcast. I'd like to be able to have a userbox to give to the interviewees that links to the Wikipedia Weekly project page for their episode, the direct link offsite, has the podcast logo, and says something like "this user was interviewed" or "listen to me here"... Do you think you could help in that regard? Your userpage says that you've designed userboxes.

Awadewit, by the way, is the interviewee for the upcoming episode. Cheers, Witty Lama 00:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

That's brilliant - cheers! I'm telling all the previously interviewed people now. Thank you for your quick and accurate help. Witty Lama 00:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

hello this is my problem

Hello I am some one that wrote a book of chilled vacuum packed beef. As I saw that there was nothing in Wiki I thought that I could write somethig of it. Them they they wanted deletion I supose that there wans´t much of this in enciclopedias, so I put my URL where I gave part of my copyright, then again deletion, I sopuse that I can`t give my copiright or somethig like that, so I deleted it from wiki but they say I can`t deleted it. I only wantted to put somethig of chilled vacuum packed beef as there is very little or nothing in all places. what I wantted to put is in http://vacuumpackedbeef.blogspot.com/ If it is posible OK if not well I tried. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.18.44.33 (talk) 23:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Achebe

I am such a fanboy of your achievement at Chinua Achebe. I thought I'd poured a lot of love into that entry back in the day, but I have to re-evaluate my own efforts after watching you completely overhaul it with incredible labor. Srsly you rule.

FYI, something I found immensely rewarding and no one in the world could really appreciate but maybe you, when Achebe won that Man Booker prize recently, my own edits at Chinua Achebe were quoted in dozens of newspapers around the world, lifted directly from my contributions at Wikipedia. In fact, Man Booker International itself still includes some of my own words verbatim on their website to describe Achebe's life and legacy, as they appeared on Wikipedia at the time. I like to think my affection for the man and his work played a modest role; of course it's silly and vain, but hey how often do our Wiki edits get stolen by Reuters and/or Man Booker International?

In any case, this awesomeness aside, if you'd have got to the thing sooner with your far superior scholarship and dedication, certainly the honor would more rightfully belong to you. It's really a freakin marvel what you did there. Cheers, DBaba 06:23, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I can't even believe how much I've enjoyed the article. I can't find a thing wrong with it. One thing did occur to me that I'd like to bounce off you: do you think it could go for another block-quotation or two, from Achebe's work?

Seeing the comment on the Featured Article Candidate page that some authors are highly combative when it comes to critical summaries, I remember in Home and Exile a somewhat defensive note in which Achebe addresses the "gossip" about how Mister Johnson "made him a writer". Anyhow, it's not that the entry in any way oversteps his assertions in Home and Exile, only that his own words are quite eloquent on the subject: [1].

I had a fearsome urge to append some of those words in a blockquote after mention of Mister Johnson... But would it throw off the pacing or structure? I'm reluctant to make any real changes, the thing is such a masterpiece as it stands. It's got featured written all over it, in any case. Congrats! DBaba 02:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds great. Hey, by the way, have you watched that stream of his UPenn lecture, the first external link? If not, you should, it's really a treat. Don't miss the Q and A either! Cheers, DBaba 20:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey I was trying to think of more compelling pictures for the Achebe entry. What about something like this? There are at least a couple ([2], [3]) of Picasso images already uploaded that nicely evidence the connection, though perhaps it's going too far to throw down a Picasso and suggest an influence (would easily be citable though, much literature on the connection).

Achebe's Heart of D essay briefly speaks to the Fang Peoples' contribution to prefiguring cubism. Cheers, DBaba 16:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Achebe notes that Congo basin sculpture was enthralling Picasso, Matisse, and Gaughin, just as Conrad's Congo-faring protagonist was questioning "the very humanity of black people".

Editor review

Hello, and thanks for the editor review. Oddly, I still had that page on my watch list, so I would have seen your message sooner or later.

Anyway, if you need assistance with issues requiring administrative action, feel free to drop me a note. Cheers, --Aarktica 16:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

reply to invite

I would like very much to be shown the ropes-- I look forward to working and corresponding with you. --Bwthemoose 16:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

OK I'm adopted-- what's next?

I'm really not sure how we begin--perhaps you could look over some of the edits I have made,or somethin' Anyway I'll be in touch with you

I made that edit on my own-- and thanks for cluing me in on the "politics" of rating and editing. These are some of the things I need to know about. I know from my own clinical experience about the tumors, and how important they are, but I might be assuming too much in regards to Wikipedia. Anyway Thanks and Eddie Izzard rocks. Jeff--Bwthemoose 17:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Adoption

I'd like to be mentored by you. How does the mentorship work? MBOmega 18:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

What I Plan on Doing

I think you giving me specific tasks or assignments would be a good idea, as it would help me gain more experience in different parts of Wikipedia. MBOmega 00:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The Second Coming

As there's been zero discussion with you on the Chinua Achebe talk page (no implicit accusations there, just statement of act), I've crystalized my points on the FAC page. I am very keen to support this article though it's set to pass very soon anyway, whether I support or not. I do urge you against a second call for a posse (acknowledgements to Qp10qp); that'll just make everything go all strident again. All the best, --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 13:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

PS: I forgot to thank you for your work on Kyriakos' article on the Cleomenean War. You improved it greatly.

Ping! --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 14:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

PS ... --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 14:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Peace
		Please accept this both as laurels for your Chinua Achebe piece and as an olive branch. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 15:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Ping! --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 15:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

B'doing! --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 15:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed sentence Dershowitz-Finkelstein Affair

I chickened out after I started reading the discussion page and saw how controversial it was,and I started to think to myself " this article has been talked about and revised and edited and reverted and re-edited by minds greater than mine-- so who am I to change it?? " Maybe this is a cardinal symptom of "Noobs disease" where novice editors become intimidated by all the high-octane thought-- or at least arguing going on.--Bwthemoose/Talk 16:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Gold star

		Ruby Pen
		I, Awadewit, hereby bestow this Ruby Pen upon Scartol for his superb copy editing of Jason Priestley. Awadewit | talk 02:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Once again, Society of the Song Dynasty

Thank you for taking your time to browse through the article a bit. I don't know if you've looked at the discussion page, but I made a response to your first set of points and your recent edits.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 03:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Catherine de' Medici's building projects

I've stuck the above article up for peer review, and I'd be very grateful if you could check it over sometime. (One has to pester people to peer review, I fear, since random reviewers are rare as jellyfish in the Thames.)

I admire you for adopting editors. I feel guilty about not doing it myself. Not sure I'd be much good at showing anyone the ropes, though. So far, I've only just about learned the strings.qp10qp 15:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry, I'm not in a hurry. I don't work at the speed of you and Awadewit, to say the least. (If I've done a paragraph by the end of a day, I give the cat a goldfish). If you get round to it, great (it's not long like the Song, I promise); if not, no matter.qp10qp 16:36, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

See, now I'm feeling guilty about the whole Song thing. Perhaps Scartol and I could work on it together or the three of us could? There is so much good information there and wikipedia has such a dearth of non-Western pages that I really want this article to pass FA. However, it needs a good copy editor. Awadewit | talk 21:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it's cool. I just need to take it slow. Bird by Bird. – Scartol · Talk 22:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)