Sajoch

Alto Adige/South Tyrol

The map Fersentalerisch Trentino is false; you used the blue color in Nonstal instead of green for the german population.

There's no Fersentalerisch spoken in Val di Non. The map is correct.--Sajoch (talk) 23:50, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Alto Adige/South Tyrol

Friend, I'm going to assume and hope you have only pure intentions when you continue to remove Alto Adige as listed as English use. Look at articles such as Italian ski resort wants to move. It is common that the BBC uses Alto Adige to describe this province. BBC will also occasionally use the term South Tyrol. Southern Tyrol I've seen very rarely, and never in commonplace articles. You have to understand that even though Alto Adige is an Italian word, the English language absorbs and inherits words from many languages. For example, San Diego, San Francisco. Do you plan to remove these pages and replace them with Saint Jacob/James and Saint Francis? I'm not sure where you live, but if you visit the United States and go to any wine merchant and ask for a wine from Alto Adige, they will understand very clearly what you mean. Look, even the world Tyrol is not an English world. Why is it used in English? Again, because it has been inherited into the language. Now, I really ask you, stop ERASING information, we aren't Stalinpedia on here...

Please sign in - I don't like anonymous contributions.--Sajoch (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I was born and still live in South Tyrol.

I didn't remove Alto Adige. Look: it's still there! I simply corrected the statement which name is which language: "Alto Adige" is italian, "Südtirol" is german and "South Tyrol" is english. "Alto Adige" is not an english name. People may use whichever version they want!--Sajoch (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The analogy with "San Diego" or "San Francisco" doesn't hold, as San Francisco is not an imposed name by an alien authority and an affront to most inhabitants of San Francisco! San Francisco is used by the majority of its inhabitants. Also Ayers Rock was changed to Uluru - guess why! --Sajoch (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Since "Southern Tyrol" is also used, I ask you not to ERASE information!--Sajoch (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Just a hint: The IP is the repeatedly blocked user Icsunonove. Here you find a short account of his Wikipedia history. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 09:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Alto Adige/South Tyrol

I replied to your message on the page. Look, you don't even know me, nor do I you. I can respect your point of view on things, but I'd appreciate that you respect my desire for a compromise. I finally see your statement above about San Francisco. Can't you see that you are letting your personal politics get involved with the naming of a page on English Wikipedia? I'm sorry, but whatever the history, Alto Adige is actually the more commonly used name in the United States. Also, as a Ladin myself, of US origin, I have no desire to play this Italian versus German game. History is what it is, and to be honest, the Ladin speakers were there WAY before anyone was speaking Italian in the region, or when Germans migrating to the area. So, to me even Sudtirol is from an alien authority, if you want to be entirely accurate. But why this constant ethnic tension in Europe? Sudtirol sounds nice, Tyrol is nice, Alto Adige is nice. From someone looking into the Province of Bolzano, what I feel I'm seeing is some really radical politics. I've been told by friends in Trentino that "Italians" don't feel welcome there. Ironic, because you know the Italian speakers of Trentino are actually ethnic Ladin too. They didn't suddenly appear out of thin air... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 08:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

No, Icsunonove, you're wrong: you're not a ladin, you're from Val di Non, where people speak a raetoromance dialect, which is not ladin. And Italian speakers of Trentino aren't ladins too. You got it all wrong. Alto Adige by the way stood for the Trentino area (Haut Adige during the napoleonic administration), while 80% of South Tyrol was part of Bavière... Moreover 70% of the inhabitants are of german or ladin language. That's why South Tyrol is geographically, ethnically, politically and historically correct, while Alto Adige is an imposed and erratic name and a fascist hangover.--Sajoch (talk) 09:18, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure I'm wrong? I read about a professor who is a linquistic expert, and she said that Nones (from the Val di Non) is a Ladin language. Wouldn't that make sense that there is a language of this region that predates the Germans coming in, or the introduction of Italian as the national language of Italy? From my own experience, what they call Nones, or Ladin, or Romansch all are very similar. Of course, not exactly the same, but you know as well as I do that these old languages change just going from one valley to another valley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure you're wrong. Rumantc, Nones, Ladin, Friulan and so on are all raeto-romance dialects, but it's not the other way round: neither Rumanc nor Friulan or Nones are ladin dialects. In fact you won't see people from Grijun claiming they speak Ladin. Unfortunately some people from Val di Non, Friuli or Belluno allege recently to be also ladins, as they see, that we ladins are somewhat more guarded and subsidized.--Sajoch (talk) 13:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't say I'm the one who is wrong Sajoch, I posted information via others that talk about these languages being a form of Ladin. If you would like to find a bunch of articles that say that these languages are not Ladin languages, please do. You know what my opinion is? It is that the so-called Ladin don't want there to be any recognition that these other languages are related, because it will damage your minority claims and your subsidies from the government. It might also make you feel a little less special than you really are. That seems to be the reason why you can't even calmly or fairly discuss this subject. It is a similar attitude that I've seen from many other people from your valleys. The real fact of the matter is that the majority of expert linguists will agree that these languages of the region form a single family. Also, why is it "unfortunate" that people realize that they all share a connection through this regional language? Then you say, "they allege" -- they don't allege anything Sajoch. Many people in these regions are simple people who never knew the science behind these languages, and I know they recently understand this through new information. Then I see the "Ladins" get nervous that others might get on their boat. You should relax and enjoy the possibility of a greater preservation of these beautiful languages, not worry about your special government status or subsidies.......... 76.89.129.139 (talk) 20:05, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

You should guess why Ayers Rock was renamed to Uluru.--Sajoch (talk) 09:20, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Italian

Hey Sajoch, if you can discuss things relaxed for a bit, I do have a question I'd like to ask a Ladin from Bolzano. I always hear about the Italians coming and taking over. But, can you explain to me who exactly are "the Italians"? As far as I know, Italian in the modern sense is simply a citizen of the Italian Republic. Going back a few hundred years ago, I suppose people might say they are a people "of Italy", or the Italic peninsula. But, I'd say that even to this day, many people in Italy don't refer to themselves as Italian first. Aren't the people of Sicily, Sicilians? The people of Napoli, Napolitani? As far as I can tell, the "Ladin" are the people of the region we happen to call Trentino-Alto Adige, and also the Romansch speakers in Switzerland are speaking essentially the same (or a VERY similar) language. It would make sense that this pocket of Europe has its own particular language, and a language which is old-Latin based. So, when you say you are Ladin, and not Italian... to me that is no different from someone saying they are Sicilian, and not Italian. Then that brings me back to my original question: who is actually Italian? Isn't the Italian language the Tuscan language actually? So are Italians actually the people from Tuscany? I know that Trentino is said to be majority Italian, but the people there speak Italian in modern times because it is the national language. They still speak their original dialects like Nones, Solardo, etc.. which are actually Ladin languages. You know that, right? So are the people in Trentino Ladin people, or have they transformed into Italians because the Italian Republic has a National Language? I'm just throwing these questions out there, as someone interested in my own history. I mentioned this once to noclador, "who are the Italians?" and all the discussion got me was him giving me the link to the Wikipedia page on Italians. My guess is that some of the questions I was asking blurred the lines of a politics he would rather dream is black and white. I'd like to see if you'd actually be interested to discuss this, as you are a fellow Ladin at least... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Sajoch, don't waste your time... It's useless. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 09:31, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Mai-Sachme, can you try and just be civil. Or why don't you try and answer my question in a nice way, if you can? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

• Sajoch, I'd still like you to explain to me also who exactly in Italy are the "Italians"? 76.89.129.139 (talk) 20:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you should go and read a history or a science book instead of all those cookbooks you think are so much more authorative, and you'll find the answer - I'm sorry, but I really don't have the time to answer all your contributions. BTW, are you a robot?--Sajoch (talk) 08:32, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Ladin

Here are some interesting links for you to read. So, this professor mentions Nones as a Ladin language [1]. This article discusses things some too [2]. When I see "Ladin", "Nones" or "Romansch" in a written form, they look incredibly similar to me. This is from a laymen's perspective, of course, but I'd expect the professor who is an expert in this field probably knows what she is talking about. In my opinion, the "Ladin languages" are simply the original languages of this entire region -- and predate the introduction of the Germanic languages, or the National Language of Italy. It is our "Sicilian" for Trentino-Alto Adige (and then some). 76.89.129.139 (talk) 10:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Mai-Sachme is right: it's a waste of time to discuss with you, as you won't accept the facts for what they are.--Sajoch (talk) 10:49, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow, you guys are incredible! I'm trying to share with you some information above for a frank and interesting discussion, and that is all you can say? I didn't write those articles, I linked them for you to read. It is really like you people have this rigid black-and-white mentality, and your heads can't accept any other idea. It is really amazing. 76.89.129.139 (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

You really want me to take those articles seriously? Well, lets see what's written in there: Nones is the name of a variety of Rhaeto-Romance spoken in the Val di Non - as I stated: ladin is a subset of raeto-romance dialects. And the other article mixes ladin with ladino which is an entirely different language. But nevertheless it goes on claiming the Nones and the Val di Sole are not unanimously recognized as dialects-Ladin.--Sajoch (talk) 12:54, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Saying it is not unanimous means that there is still science and analysis involved. A lot of this, as you should know, is recent study into these regional languages. However, there are obviously linguists that put forward that these languages are dialects. Why is it surprising to you, given the close vicinity of these valleys? Is it going to wreck your world to realize one day that maybe all these languages are indeed dialects-Ladin?? You seem to want to shut down any possibility of this... 76.89.129.139 (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

You still don't get the distinction between ladin and raeto-romance?!? Please refrain from talking about this topic if you don't have a clue.--Sajoch (talk) 08:34, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd be interested to know if you are so rude in person, or you do this only from your keyboard. I gave you links that say that these languages are possibly dialects, and you attack me. Why don't you go and yell at the ones who wrote those pages. I can't believe the mentality of the people in BZ. I visited there so many times. I had been told by people in TN that there was a radicalization going on, your behavior shows it is true. Disappointing, very disappointing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:19, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Alto Adige as English usage

Hi Sajoch, I think it's fine to mention that Alto Adige is English usage in the article. You are right stating that it's simply the Italian name, but there is also a significant use of this term in the English-speaking world. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 13:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

As even the sources of Icsunonove ironically show, also Südtirol is common english usage. That's why I wouldn't list all possible and used variants, but simply illustrate, which name is which language. And that is:

• italian: Alto Adige, Sudtirolo
• german: Südtirol
• ladin: Südtirol, Sudtirol
• english: South Tyrol
• (french: Haute Adige, Tyrol du Sud)

What is common in all languages? the tyrolen relationship, while the Adige-relationship exists only in french (for historic reasons) and in italian (a fascist hangover, but unfortunately those fascist laws are still valid).

All variants are already there in the first sentence: The Autonomous Province of Bolzano-Bozen (... Provincia autonoma di Bolzano ... Alto Adige ... Autonome Provinz Bozen ... Südtirol, so there's no need to add Alto Adige again. What's missing is the english name South Tyrol, so the next sentence adds: ... commonly known as South Tyrol. There's no reason the imposed Alto Adige should be more prominent on the english WP than the politically, historically, geographically and ethnically correct South Tyrol.--Sajoch (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Mai-Sachme, you surprised me, and I really appreciate you posting this message to Sajoch. And Sajoch, yes, we all know that Alto Adige is the Italian name. The point is that both Alto Adige and South Tyrol are commonly used in English. This is FACT, and you really need to accept it and stop trying to minimize the name Alto Adige. I know that in Italian, for example, they commonly use the word "weekend". It isn't an Italian word, but it is commonly used in Italian now to describe the weekend. The same goes for the tens of thousands of words in English that have foreign origins (as San Francisco, Los Angeles, pizza, on and on and on). The same example can be made for Trentino. It is an Italian word, but it is also the English word, is it not? Lastly, and I'm sorry to say this, but your last sentence shows exactly the bias you and many others have when it comes to naming this page. You are letting your emotions of being an inhabitant of this region overwhelm a fair and accurate analysis for ENGLISH Wikipedia. That is what is most frustrating for a native English speaker as myself... 76.89.129.139 (talk) 19:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

When searching Google, we often find "Alto Adige" as part of a name, like Fahrschule Alto Adige, Trentino-Alto Adige, Jazzfestival Alto Adige and so on. To rule out those composed names, I tried to search for common-day phrases, like "skiing in Alto Adige". All searches were done on english pages only with exclusion of Wikipedia (-wiki).

	Alto Adige	South Tyrol
people from	59[3]	324[4]
working in	1	548
living in	117	3,260
wine from	1,930	1,850
hiking in	19	5,870
skiing in	2,180	6,140
holiday in	618	60,100
love	158	3,510
visiting	199	2,190
visit	283	25,800
capital of	666	6,380

The above table clearly shows the overwhelming preference of South Tyrol in english texts. Only exception is the wine-sector (for marketing-reasons, as we discussed elsewhere).--Sajoch (talk) 10:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

don't get angry

Hi Sajoch, shouting is counterproductive. Don't get angry, that's what he wants. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 08:45, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

No, I want a honest and a level discussion. What are you really looking for Mai-Sachme? All you do is make personal attacks. From the get go you treat me like an enemy. Do some soul searching for once, both of you. I give opinions, I ask questions, and you blow me off calling things nonsense. It is really nasty behavior. Then you are so easy to point the finger at me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:05, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

You were spreading lies about me, and I replyed in a small font. You call your behaviour honest?!?--Sajoch (talk) 09:14, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

You constantly erase Alto Adige from the main paragraph, and you yourself admit you want to stop the spread of the term Alto Adige, and you say I'm dishonest?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:16, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I repeted it many times, that I didn't erase Alto Adige - stop filling WP with false claims.--Sajoch (talk) 10:12, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey again, that's just what he wants... Attacking someone personally is, apart from being useless, rather his than your conversational level. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 07:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

And by the way: he got blocked for 6 month [5]. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 08:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

In fact I didn't call him or anyone else a racist or whatever. It was him calling me a racist [6]. But I can't accept, that he continuosly contorts my assertions. Is there no one that could have a look at this and lock out his IP-address for continually provoking us?--Sajoch (talk) 09:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

He already got blocked for 6 months. Thanks for the link, I removed his claim. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 09:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Ladin names

I hope I got them all. But where did you find Maran? --Mai-Sachme (talk) 14:31, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

We always called that city "Maran" in ladin. :-) Should I search for sources to back up my claim?--Sajoch (talk) 15:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

"Ladin" is a common, universal language?

Greetings. You reverted an edit I made in the article on Trentino-Alto Adige about the Ladin language. Since you apparently do not agree with the way I denoted Ladin as being "the unique local dialect", and always in good faith, could you please explain your disagreement about Ladin being unique and local? And that it's a dialect? Thanks. -The Gnome (talk) 19:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

A grim update about that "lingua franca" bit, awhile back: "Linguist Professor David Crystal speaking in Delhi said: 'A language is dying every two weeks somewhere in the world today. Half the world's languages will no longer be spoken in another century. This is an extremely serious concern, and English has to share the blame.' Others put it less politely, describing English as a killer language." -The Gnome (talk) 13:29, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Apology

I apologize for outing you. Hope I did not cause too much of a problem. I was not aware of the 3O procedure. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 22:04, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

No problem - requesting a third opinion is nothing I should be ashamed of. :-)--Sajoch (talk) 01:14, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic groups in Italy

You must be really a bit confused, because you linked an article (Ethnic groups in Italy) where there isn't any list of ethnic groups in Italy, above all a ladin ethnic group, so you can't assign people to these groups, as you wish. Please stop, okay? --Felisopus (talk) 11:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to link to a Wiki-group. here's the correct link: Category:Ethnic groups in Italy :-)--Sajoch (talk) 13:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I repeat: please stop. You can't remove template. You can't restore NNPOV sentences without sources. There's any source, any national law, any consensous about a list of ethnics groups in Italy. In the relevant article they don't exist, and sorry, add a category does not prove anything, this must be a joke. And you're reverting all my edits in different articles, like a "feud". --Felisopus (talk) 14:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

It's embarassing, you're denying the existence of a Ladin ethnic minority in Italy.:-(--Sajoch (talk) 17:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Alto Adige in history

Hi there - fantastic map at Department of Alto Adige! My only tweak would be: could you color in the modern province to make it stand out from the rest of Italy, and do cross-hatching where it overlaps with the historical department? (You also might want to add "Bolzano" to "Bozen", but I'm not getting into that particular battle right now.) Otherwise, very nicely done, and a great addition to the article - thanks. Dohn joe (talk) 18:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks you appreciate my work. My intention was to show the "historic" usage of the name "Alto Adige" within todys borders. hatching ist problematic when you scale the image... Now that I think of it, I may use a dotted line for todays borders of South Tyrol. :-)--Sajoch (talk) 18:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

December 2012

Your recent editing history at Ladin language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. VQuakr (talk) 06:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Translation of "Lingue di minoranza e scuola"

Hi Sajoch,

Regarding your translation request of the following sentence:

"La ladinità bellunese è piuttosto etnica che linguistica, e le varietà parlate dei comuni ladini sono dei dialetti veneti alpini grammaticalmente non diversi da quelli dei comuni che non si sono dichiarati ladini".

I believe you are right on both accounts:

• I would expect "bellunese" to refer to the whole province as opposed to just the city.
• "non diversi" is certainly a litotes here, although I would translate it with something weaker than "identical"; perhaps "similar" or "alike"

Hence I would translate it as:

Ladinity in the province of Belluno is more ethnic than linguistic. The varieties spoken by Ladin municipalities are Venetian alpine dialects, grammatically similar to those spoken in municipalities that did not declare themselves as Ladin.

I hope this works. Jean ^(t·c) 10:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Also: I am not entirely sure whether translating "Ladinità" as "Ladinity" makes sense in the context of the article you are working on. It might be better to translate it as "sense of belonging to the Ladin culture", or something along those lines. Jean ^(t·c) 10:09, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Third opinion

Please respond at Template_talk:Rhaeto-Romance_languages#Third opinion. Mkdw^talk 22:00, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

F.C. Südtirol-Alto Adige

I have reverted your moves as undiscussed, potentially conteoversial, and likely motivated by nationalism. If you wish to move again, please use WP:RM for articles and WP:CFD for categories. GiantSnowman 10:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

The clubs name is "F.C Südtirol" since 2000. You should have read the article!--Sajoch (talk) 13:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Then please use WP:RM to propose moving the article. Your edits are currently disruptive (changing direct links to redirects) and if you continue, you will be blocked. GiantSnowman 13:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I corrected those links yesterday without problems. The mess is yours, please clean it up or you are the one that will get blocked for vandalism!--Sajoch (talk) 13:38, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

The mess is yours - this is your final warning, I will block you if you continue to change the links. GiantSnowman 13:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you an admin? Why are you moving the article "F.C. Südtirol" to a wrong/outdated name? I stop here, but please you should clean the mess. Thanks.--Sajoch (talk) 13:42, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am an admin. As I have stated earlier, please use WP:RM to move the page, do not do it yourself as the move needs discussing first. If you need help, I will help you, but your edit warring and combative attitude is not good. I am also going to move all the article links back to "F.C. Südtirol-Alto Adige" (for now) as that is where the article and category is located, right or wrong. If you present evidence at the RM then I will happily move the article and fix the links. GiantSnowman 13:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I thought, I have explained it often enough: the name of the football-club is "F.C. Südtirol" since 2000, as stated in the article itself. I would be enough to have a look at the article and follow the associated links, to convince yourself. You reverted my corrections without discussion and without reading my comments or the article - I'm flabbergasted. :-)--Sajoch (talk) 13:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

You need to present reliable sources to verify your claims, and show that the WP:COMMONNAME is "F.C. Südtirol", using the WP:RM process. I have no real opinion on the matter either way, even though the club badge shows 'Südtirol-Alto Adige', but your way of going about this has been wrong from the very start. You have not technically "corrected" anything, you have removed a bunch of direct links and replaced them with redirects. I also believe I intimated the discussion first of all so your accusations of me not discussing the matter are false. GiantSnowman 14:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

We're not talking about the badge, but about the club's name. You continue to ignore the obvious written in the article itself. The move to the new name (official since 2000) should be uncontroversial, and that's why I moved it. But I'll try to please you: Talk:F.C. Südtirol-Alto Adige. I hope, I did it right.--Sajoch (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Great stuff, many thanks. If the RM is successful, you can then use WP:CFSD to rename the category. GiantSnowman 18:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

please use WP:CFSD to rename the player category, as I have already advised you. GiantSnowman 21:49, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I thought the renaming of the article implies the category could/should also be renamed. Can you do that for me? I already updated all category-links I found, so un-undoing my work would be nonsense.--Sajoch (talk) 21:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

no I cannot, please use CFSD. GiantSnowman 22:06, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Hotmail

I'm wondering why you keep adding that Hotmail runs on FreeBSD. There's no reference to this, anywhere, except an article from 2001. There's also the baseless claim, that netcraft.com showed several FreeBSD-servers at hotmail.com in august 2012. That's not evidence. XorpiZ (talk) 12:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I've checked the Netcraft data relative to Hotmail in 2012, and FreeBSD was still there. Today I don't find any references to FreeBSD, but that doesn't imply FreeBSD isn't used anymore. As many servers are serviced through Akamai, FreeBSD may still be there. Furthermore there's no recent claim by Microsoft denying the use of FreeBSD or bragging the migration is finally complete (see also [7]). I would welcome an official statement by Microsoft telling us when they switched off the last FreeBSD-server - but I fear we'll wait in vain.:-(--Sajoch (talk) 15:40, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

What's the link for the Netcraft data? That MS hasn't claimed or bragged about the lack of FreeBSD usage isn't evidence that FreeBSD is still being used, hence it shouldn't be claimed, in my opinion. XorpiZ (talk) 06:38, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I did a search like this. But there aren't any FreeBSD anymore - I'm sorry I didn't link it when it still was. I don't care if you remove my now-unsourced claims.--Sajoch (talk) 08:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Renaming

You are currently trying to do something to rename a page, but I don't know what. To rename a page, follow the instructions at WP:MOVE. Ramaksoud2000 ^{(Talk to me)} 00:36, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I know. I was unable to rename "The Libertarians" back to "Die Freiheitlichen". Can you fix this, please? We shouldn't invent translations for proper nouns.--Sajoch (talk) 00:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if what you are doing will be contested or not because I don't know anything about that subject but to do that technically, follow the instructions near the end of the section at WP:MOR. Ramaksoud2000 ^{(Talk to me)} 00:48, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I already asked RJFF for help, who was involved in prior moves of this page. The move should be uncontroversial, as all other Wikis (italian, french, catalan, ...) also don't translate the name of this political party (proper nouns should never be translated - this should be obvious).--Sajoch (talk) 00:56, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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Hello, Sajoch. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Sajoch. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)