User talk:Lizard the Wizard/Archive 1

Barnstar for your work on the Billy Cannon article

		The College football Barnstar
		Lizard the Wizard, I hereby award you The College football Barnstar for your excellent work to expand and improve Billy Cannon, an article of high importance to WikiProject College football. It's been a pleasure to collaborate with you of late, and I look forward to more contributions from you in the future. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Well earned. You're our star rookie. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 08:43, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

LSEAUX Tigers (Lizard & Cake's general discussion corner)

Archives

Did I get it right? Only just now saw your work for the friendliest rival of the Gators. I try to research football in the south prior to 1933. If that era too interests you, do not forget the 1908 team, or Tom Dutton or Phillip Cooper. Above all in the old days stands Doc Fenton. I am not really sure why. Funny enough, I am certain Red Aby on the 1899 team is a relative - never did find out if he's in the photo. Cake (talk) 15:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Ha, close enough. I've seen you around. Nice to make your acquaintance. I've only just really gotten into editing in the past month, so I've only just seen the scale of negligence given to older generation players. Cannon's article in particular was a shame. Then there's Tommy Casanova, LSU's only 3-time All-American. I haven't even touched that article yet. It looks like Florida sports are in good hands with you, Dirtlawyer, etc. If there once was someone putting that effort into LSU articles, they're nowhere to be found now. Hopefully I can fill that role. Lizard (talk) 16:11, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

eauxnly kidding. I seem to recall a good deal of Casanova, Kavanaugh, and the Tinsleys in all conference teams. There are indeed quite a few Gators (and Wolverines) editors. If you find any curiosities in your mining of facts from the football history, I should be able to provide significant help in the above referenced era and minor help elsewhere. George Trevor's all-time teams can be good little reads; LSU's is in here. Cake (talk) 17:46, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

What I find particularly interesting about Kavanaugh is he is still the Chicago Bears career receiving touchdowns leader. Most people would think Brandon Marshall or Ditka. Nope, Ken Kavanaugh. Lizard (talk) 19:53, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

That is interesting. I would indeed guess Marshall (Tore up my Vikes) or Ditka (he and Ron Sellers are probably the last two great ends-not-tight-ends). Lawrence DuPont is a Tiger who could really use an article. He, Fenton, and Abe Mickal are probably your greatest old running backs. Cake (talk) 14:11, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I was about to point out that DuPont had an article already, then noticed it was you who started it today. I'll be honest I had never heard of him. Funnily enough he was born in Houma, about 15 miles from where I live in Thibodaux. Lizard (talk) 19:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, I like to focus on one thing at a time, so it'll probably be a while before I get to anything other than articles related to Cannon, the 1958-59 teams, the Chinese Bandits, etc. Finishing things to completion (or at least until I'm satisfied) is kinda my M.O., which is why most of my 400 or so edits are to only 3 or 4 pages. Lizard (talk) 17:08, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Taking your time is never a problem. Here I only hope to plant some old seeds to one who seems capable of providing a more total picture. It is good there is somebody to research the Dietzel era and the 3 platoons. On Houma, Ole Miss's Earl Kinnebrew is in an elite category with little information. I have to plead ignorance on any first-hand knowledge of the region. The closest I get is the above mentioned Red Aby, tied to me by the wife of this guy. I wonder, "Does anyone know Doc Fenton's name at the corn dog/earthquake cueillettes?," or whatever it is you guys do. The NFF gave him their retroactive Heisman for 1908. Cake (talk) 21:11, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I noticed that retroactive Heisman. Was that viewed as an official thing, or just some honorary award that few people really pay mind to? Obviously it's not officially official, but it's a pretty cool little fact that catches the eye. I guess what I'm asking is, is it something worth including in his infobox? Lizard (talk) 22:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Probably not. They are not the only one to do retroactive Heismans. That said, this is the hall of fame, and rather prestigious. I think what they must have taken from that year was his 132 points, which probably does belong in the infobox. Cake (talk) 00:36, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

@MisterCake: Alright I think I'll take a break from the Dietzel era. I'll start work on Casanova's article, which is a downright mess, then I'll get into Doc Fenton. Fenton will be a learning experience for me though, as I haven't researched much on football in that early era. All I really know is players used leather helmets and rubbed dirt on broken limbs. Lizard (talk) 16:44, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

When the time comes I will relish seeing another editor branching into that era, and doubly good to get there only once others are cleaned up. For the colorful features of football in the 'golden age of sport' I would add everyone playing both ways of course, and kickers or punters being regular members of the team (Fenton would placekick). The ball was more like a fat rugby ball, or like a deflated basketball. Therefore a long pass was so much more surreal, and punts and fumbles and rain flipped games. Also, 180 pounds was a big dude. If one is later looking for more background knowledge into the long ago of 1908 the following few pages might be of some help: Early history of American football, Quarterback#History, Short punt formation, and Single-wing formation. Cake (talk) 18:23, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

It's strange. It's as if Casanova is an enigma, surrounded in mystique. The guy went to 3 pro bowls and was a 3-time All-American, but there's very little on him anywhere I look. Or at least, not what you'd expect of someone who's LSU's only 3-time All-American and one of only two retired jerseys, and is in the CFHOF. Even sports-reference is surprisingly bare Where are all the individual awards? Where are his defensive stats? Return stats? Not even LSUsports.net has a bio on him. Again, his name is permanently emblazoned in Tiger Stadium. People are gonna want to look him up. Lizard (talk) 19:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

This includes some return stats from LSUsports. I wonder if one could contact the athletic department for more information. Cake (talk) 20:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I'll just start Casanova's article from scratch. The current article is a mess and I'd end up erasing 90% of it anyway. I'll be working on it here. Lizard (talk) 07:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Well thank you for focusing on such a legend. I am reminded of Josh Cody's comparatively lukewarm claim as a 3-time All-American. In case you have any interest in Louisianans broadly, many were proud to say Red Cagle came from the South. Cake (talk) 17:33, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@MisterCake: Sadly, I think I'll have to drop Casanova. I was planning on a nice long article with prose but there just isn't enough out there. I'll still clean up the article the best I can. If he had a written biography like Cannon it'd be a lot easier. Instead I'll turn my attention to Van Buren. While Van Buren's LSU career isn't all that spectacular, there's a nice story to tell about his pro career. He was arguably the first great modern NFL running back. Lizard (talk) 17:10, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I know considerably less about the pro history. I did know his number was retired, and 6 feet 200 pounds is something of an ideal tank for the old days (compare my one GA so far: Lynn Bomar). That last claim seems a tall order. I would've figured Jim Thorpe or Red Grange; Van Buren seems to rank with the latter as a return specialist. He also has many great images. Cake (talk) 17:09, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

My original claim was that he was the first great NFL running back, before I added "modern" specifically because I remembered Grange. I'd say modern includes post-WWII. Lizard (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Here is some Van Buren. Cake (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Ha, I'm sure he's somewhere in there. I'll be honest I'm not even sure which team is which. Lizard (talk) 21:37, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

You guys are in the mustard. Got a Van Buren TD pass at ~5:40 and a TD run at ~23:00. Cake (talk) 23:01, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

It surprises me that the game wasn't played too much differently way back then than it is now. A lot of the same offensive formations are still used. I'm also surprised this is color film. Compare to Cannon's run 15 years later. Then again, that was pretty much home video. Say, speaking of, do you think you could find a free-use photo of Cannon during his run? I never have any luck with that stuff. Lizard (talk) 16:40, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

One could argue the game is the same back until 1933 when the ball was still fat. If free-use means public domain, I am not sure I can find one, but I uploaded a smaller, shotty version such that fair use should be ok. If it turns out it is PD, then here is the best version. I like this one with Rabb and Cannon. Cake (talk) 20:59, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I sent you an email with something that I found amusing about LSU's 1958 team while sifting through old newspapers. Lizard (talk) 01:53, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

That is funny. It reminds me of the 1899 Sewanee team having 9 players make its coach's "All-Southern" team. "Only 9? He must have thought it was a baseball game." retorted the rival Vandy newspapers. Cake (talk) 05:24, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

• Can you find anything on the origin of the "geaux to hell Ole Miss" chant? Everything I can find is just "according to legend..." or blog posts. Lizard (talk) 04:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

• Check out this source. Cake (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I actually thought about buying that book for when I get to working on Dietzel's article. I have a part of that practice field story on Billy Cannon's Halloween Run but I wasn't sure if that was the true origin. Lizard (talk) 17:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Did it happen against Florida? That odd ball aside, this book seems to detail the story of the leaflets. This source has a passing mention. Cake (talk) 00:53, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

It really says something about the intensity of a rivalry when fans express their hatred at a completely different game, if it's true. Reminds me of this gem vs. Florida in '07 (which I'll add is probably the greatest game I ever witnessed. I'm sure our opinions vary on that one). Lizard (talk) 01:08, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm guessing no one really gives much credence to football All-America selections by the Helms Foundation. Aye? Lizard (talk) 04:53, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

• @MisterCake: Just wanted to make sure you knew I was working on a season summary for the 1958 team. I'll slap it in once I'm done with the draft. Lizard (talk) 09:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

• I was in the endzone for Tebow's jump pass to avoid Jamarcus Russell eating Chris Leak, so I could let you have the next one. I would say both those LSU games were the best back-and-forth games of Tebow's UF career. I don't know as much about the All-America selectors, or if any get left out. Cbl62 is your man on that one. Looking at their national title selections, they seem to give the south some credence (Alabama in 1925 over Dartmouth would've been contentious), and so I have to wonder if their all-america selections are ignored for that reason. I have seen your ever-growing draft on 1958. Looks like Jess Neely at Rice and LSU had a little rivalry. Cake (talk) 10:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

That source you found for the 1958 roster was from the 2001 football media guide. I have physical copies of every media guide since 2006 and none of them have that nice little summary for 1958. I guess they figured it was ancient news once they won a championship in the 21st century. But anyway, I like that quote toward the bottom of the first page from the Tulane player saying they'll beat LSU because they'll choke. And then they promptly lose 62–0. Lizard (talk) 17:07, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

And yeh it's a lot more tedious than a biographical article. I'm getting to the fun stretch of games though. Lizard (talk) 19:12, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Glad it helped; I too found it useful. I trust you've seen this. Cake (talk) 04:24, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

I haven't, actually. I'm guessing that's just a short intro video but I don't see anything pointing to a full-length video. Lizard (talk) 19:37, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

• Now that I think of it, have you ever heard of any other player to switch from halfback to tight end? Cannon's case was unique in that Biletnikoff and Art Powell already had the Raiders set at wide receiver. So all they could do was put Cannon at TE, making him one of the fastest TEs of his time if not THE fastest. Lizard (talk) 23:29, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@MisterCake:I was hoping you wouldn't see that edit, because I realized after that it wasn't you who had written that part. Lizard (talk) 05:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Funny enough, I was looking over the article and thought to change tight end to end, figuring he played both ways like he did as a halfback and defensive back LSU, until I read about his professional career more closely. Many sources on Powell call him an end, so I remain a little skeptical, but it probably just means split end or the like. Both Biletnikoff and Cannon as your receivers does seem quite an all-star team. Strictly speaking, no, but I don't research the era of tight ends. Now, people who played both end and halfback? The list is long. Lynn Bomar would be one I've mentioned. There are those like Truxton Hare or Joe Guyon or Buck Hatcher who could probably play every position. One went into the backfield to kick or pass; guards were often also the heavy fullbacks. Doc Fenton played end one game and quarterback the next. Also, of course, if it counts if one were an end on offense and a halfback on defense, the list gets longer. To say one utilized at halfback who was later utilized as a pass-catching end, I might bring up Hoyt Winslett, though he was no Cannon in the backfield. Cake (talk) 16:01, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I love it when the newspaper summaries of games detail every play. It makes my own summaries so much easier. I just wish Times-Picayune archives weren't behind a paywall, that way I could actually link my sources. I think Jweiss or DL told me Times-Picayune wasn't on newspapers.com so you guys will just have to trust my word that I'm not plagiarizing haha. Also I think J.W. "Red" Brodnax could use an article. He was one of the "only" three running backs from Baton Rouge that made All-SEC for LSU in 1958 (third-team, still counts) and was a 3-year starter at fullback. Hopefully someone can make an article for him wink wink nudge. Lizard (talk) 02:45, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Ever seen an old game diagram? That and the telegram were once the equivalent of watching a game today. Before wiki was kind enough to give me access to newspapers.com, I had used proquest, which had the Picayune. The '21 and '22 Vandy articles can show how it perhaps hinders the summaries to have a play-by-play, but I digress. I remember I was surprised how often I found games from Mississippi in the Picayune. Looks like quite a few articles on Brodnax's death; wonder if there is a relation to Johnny Broadnax. Cake (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

LSU's '57 backfield: Cannon, Brodnax, Johnny Robinson, and Jim Taylor. Take your pick. Lizard (talk) 23:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Would try and go for the shoelaces or out of bounds whenever Brodnax or Robinson got the ball. This is the backfield that posted 222–0. Cake (talk) 01:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Ah, one of my favorite football moments. Wasn't it against the other school's baseball team? Lizard (talk) 01:12, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

I believe it was against the usual varsity. One has to wonder Cumberland's halftime speech. Cake (talk) 02:19, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Only 978 rushing yards on 40 carries. Lizard (talk) 02:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

• @MisterCake: Can you find a birth date/place on Calvin Bird? Obituaries galore but none of them mention his birth date. Lizard (talk) 03:46, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I too hope a lengthy thread on such a bad joke has been productive. Don't forget your Tigers played the iron men. Cake (talk) 05:11, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Has Florida really beaten Tennessee 11 straight? Guess I haven't been paying attention. Must be nice playing in the East. Can we trade? We'll take Vandy, Mizzou, and Kentucky in the West and the East can have bama, Ole Miss and Auburn. Lizard (talk) 07:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Yep. LSU and UT are the early favorites for the SEC title game. Given the last eleven years, we joke about Tennessee winning the offseason. I wish Jalen Hurd was a Gator; but I think Joshua Dobbs is a bit overrated. Ole Miss in the east would be weird; I'd be all for Auburn in the east again, and then Bama only makes sense. As one for the old days when regions mattered more, it irks me to have Vandy in the east, and Mizzou in the SEC at all. Southern football used to be defined as Vandy and to the east; I'm not sure how that was reconciled with LSU and Tulane down there. It seems like Louisiana and Mississippi were border states of sorts, playing Texas schools and Arkansas too. I guess the river makes for oddities like the New Orleans Pelicans and the Memphis Grizzlies in the west of the NBA. Check Nixon out. Cake (talk) 13:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

The river really does have a tendency to be split into east and west. Even in the civil war, the "western theater" was everything west of the river. Yet there was fighting all the way in the Rocky Mountain states. Correction: it was everything west of the Appalachians. Lizard (talk) 16:31, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it's the Appalachians as the border for the southerners. The old definition of what we now call "southeastern" football would've been from Vanderbilt to the Appalachians; west and south of the mountains. East of Appalachia is supposed to be that strange, south atlantic, "ACC" football. Cough cough that their best teams are all in the southeast by the above definition (Clemson, FSU, GaTech). I think I would draw analogy to Kentucky as a pseudo-Northern state with Louisiana and Mississippi as pseudo-Southwestern ones. When they do anything good, of course they are in the south, but in more objective views of the whole their coverage seems to be neglected, for instance by the All-Southern teams. Cake (talk) 17:14, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Only three more games and the Sugar Bowl to go on that draft. I hope it isn't too lengthy. I looked at some GAs of other teams' seasons and the lengths vary, with more recent seasons tending to be longer. Ah well. Lizard (talk) 20:55, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

The UF, Miss, and Miami games could probably be trimmed down. The Rice game is a good length; certainly on its way to C or B class. Was the Sugar Bowl a virtual home game? Cake (talk) 15:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

I think I remember seeing that it was expected Clemson would bring around 1,000 fans since they didn't travel well. And LSU would have no trouble filling out the other ~80,000 seats. Lizard (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

And on a rival field, eh? Could claim your seats the week before. Cake (talk) 19:24, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

• It appears we've got some help on the LSU Tigers football page. Honestly I was embarrassed at some of the fancruft wording that I found on that page. I probably should have started on that page before my other projects but I figured it couldn't have been as bad as it was, being the page of a major program and whatnot. That was before I realized I was a lone sailor in a sea of Michigan and Florida editors. Lizard (talk) 02:23, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

A neat idea. English 2000, of course, is taught by HAL. I will tie a noose with my shoelaces if I ever again have to diagram a sentence, and so I will always welcome help on that front. There are many other main pages I've tried to fix; Vandy chief among them. Some just need too much work and yet are so close to being of quite high standard IMO. For example, the Sooners. Cake (talk) 23:44, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Here is a nice image. Cake (talk) 00:53, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I have the book that image comes from. I just never know what can actually be used, besides pre-1923 images. Lizard (talk) 02:40, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I too would not mind a crash course in other means of detecting images for use. Since Dietzel is dead, it could easily be fair use on his page. Not as sure with Cannon. Cake (talk) 02:51, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I think it would be fair use for any page, since like you said, Dietzel is dead. So it would be impossible to reproduce the image, as long as Dietzel isn't cropped out. Maybe @Dirtlawyer1 knows. Lizard (talk) 16:40, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

• Welp, the game summaries are finally done for 1958 LSU Tigers football team. Now I just need a few more pictures to make it less wall-of-texty. Lizard (talk) 02:57, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

You will need fair-use rationales for any non-PD images you are using, and they may get removed later if seen as purely decorative. With an added rationale, Mangham's should be good. Wonder if we can get the Bandits in there. Cake (talk) 18:09, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I wish. I've been eyeballing that image for a while now to use it on Chinese Bandits. Emailed DL about it and he said since it was in Time magazine it was definitely licensed and subject to copyright. Lizard (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

There's a few images from the Sugar Bowl too it seems. Here is Rabb handing it off to Cannon. This would be cool to have. Cake (talk) 18:33, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

• 2016 is becoming the "Year of the Retirement" isn't it? Marshawn Lynch, Calvin Johnson, Peyton Manning (probable), Jared Allen, Charles Woodson... The HOF committee is gonna have their hands full in 2020. Lizard (talk) 04:57, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Right? Lynch and Johnson were both surprising. Lynch's retirement makes that Super Bowl interception that much worse. I liked the imagery I got with Harley and Lynch for the Halfback article. Cake (talk) 04:55, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Some additional sources too would be nice for the '58 article. Most of the summaries come from the Picayune, which isn't link-able, so for all anyone knows I could've just made up a lot of the season. I don't want to add any more text though. I think the length of each summary roughly conveys each game's importance. Lizard (talk) 21:47, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I tried to break up the Picayune sources with some open ones as well. You could probably use Dietzel's book and Marty Mul's in multiple games if need be. Cake (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

What do we know about the defensive scheme and the offensive coordinator? Cake (talk) 22:44, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Not sure about the defensive scheme. And they didn't have an offensive coordinator, but the offensive backfield coach was Carl Maddox and the O-line coach was Bill Peterson. Abner Wimberly coached the ends. Oh and the D-line coach was some schmuck. Lizard (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

If I recall, in '52 the Gators would've beat Vandy but for a goalline stand where we didn't give the ball to Rick Casares for some odd reason. I guess this was the transition from one to two platoons, for a line and backfield coach is in a sense the old version of defensive and offensive coordinator, and here we seem to have perhaps a hodge-podge of both systems. Cake (talk) 01:07, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Given your interest in the infobox, I take it you are aware of this and this too? I try to use the needs-infobox=yes parameter. Cake (talk) 03:34, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I am now. Lizard (talk) 03:40, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Quite the conundrum. I wonder if Bill May influenced the naming of Bill May. Maybe a couple years too early. Lizard (talk) 05:50, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, one wonders if they are relatives. It is so difficult to find mention of May subscript 1 anywhere outside of the sport section, such that I don't even know if his first name is William. Cake (talk) 06:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

"May was the star player that season. So much so that we wrote one sentence about him." Lizard (talk) 06:06, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

What you just corrected on the '58 article has always been my Achilles heal. I probably did it in many other places. I can fix them later, don't worry about it. Lizard (talk) 06:21, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

It is one I have to do consciously, to say the least. Lols for the Vandy article mentioning May. Unfortunately, Tenn's available sources are little better. That guy on the other end of passes to Goat Carroll, and who played as well as Curry. Cake (talk) 06:45, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Ashamed to say I don't know much about Mike Donahue at LSU or the beloved Russ Cohen's lukewarm coaching career at all. Cake (talk) 15:10, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I wonder if college baseball will ever pick up popularity. The LSU-Cincy game last night was a thriller, LSU came back from 2 runs down twice to win with a walk-off in the 12th. I do eventually plan on getting to Skip Bertman's article. The man is a living legend on par with Cannon around here. Lizard (talk) 16:39, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I do remember LSU was the baseball equivalent when Spurrier was coaching UF football. I don't want to jinx UF but the Gators look good. Vandy sure has become powerful lately too. I sigh though, for I suspect nobody at the LSU-Cincy game would know Cohen's name. This and these are my little branches that way. PS the Godchauxs seemed prominent in both Nashville and Louisiana. Cake (talk) 18:51, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if you've noticed, I made a separate History of LSU Tigers football page. That should keep me busy for the rest of my life. Feel free to contribute to your heart's content if you'd like. I'll trim down the history section on the main page a bit before I get started. Lizard (talk) 20:28, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Good on you to have found where that first game was. One day I hope to finish this. Cake (talk) 21:23, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I hope Kentucky is proud of that 13¾–0 shut-out. Lizard (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Some rules, eh? That Kentucky is actually Transylvania. They still have "undefeated since 1941" shirts. I am pretty sure Beersheba Pritchard left you guys for Africa, but a source escapes me at the moment. The newspapers joked he'd be on the All-Africa team, I remember. Cake (talk) 21:36, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Only Transylvania I know is the place where vampires and dragons come from. Never knew they had a football team. Lizard (talk) 01:02, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Did Vlad have dragons too? They still play hoops. Cake (talk) 19:23, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

See the last sentence of the lead on USC Trojans. Over/under 2 minutes on how quickly my edit would be reverted if I changed it to "considered by some" or "one of the greatest." Lizard (talk) 03:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Strange. Surely OSU-Michigan looms largest. EDIT: I see, "intersectional" I suppose that's true. Cake (talk) 05:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

What does that even mean? I'm googling "intersectional rivalry" all over and all I can find is references to this rivalry. No actual definition. Lizard (talk) 08:15, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

It means across regions, or sections. "Out of conference" before there were conferences, or like the Rose Bowl. It refers to ND being a midwest team and USC being a pacific coast team. 1894 Chicago v. Stanford was the original intersectional contest, or the first ersatz-bowl. Cake (talk) 19:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Even then, that's a bold statement. But I really don't watch other sports enough to gauge the rivalry. And since I can't even think of another cross-regional rivalry off the top my head I'll have to give it to them. Lizard (talk) 19:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

• It really irks my gears how often all-american selections aren't in player infoboxes. Even unanimous selections. Being an all-american is arguably more impressive than being a pro-bowler, when there's 120+ teams and only one player is selected for each position. Even if you take into account that there's like 5 different official selectors. A starting QB in the NFL has about a 1/4 chance of making the pro bowl when you factor in injuries and the probability that at least one quarterback will skip because of the Super Bowl. This past pro bowl had 133 players chosen. All 5 selectors combined, there was 66 first-team all-americans this year. Now how many players are in the NFL, and how many are in Div. I football. I'm not sure what the point of my rant is but I had to release it somewhere. Lizard (talk) 00:55, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

To think Lynn Bomar used to have a stub and Hek Wakefield not even an article ;) Cake (talk) 05:08, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

I'll get to Max Fuglar and Tyler Lafauci... eventually. Lizard (talk) 07:29, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Maybe after I'm done with Dome Patrol. Lizard (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

• Lawd sha don't let dem rednecks up in Baton Rouge fool you. Dey ain't no Cajuns up nort. Dey just tink dey Cajun but dey ain't got no coonass in em dem. Lizard (talk) 00:25, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

I found someone else besides me dedicated to working on Louisiana sports articles. Go figure. Lizard (talk) 16:55, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

• Is that the right person? Says the account is blocked, so I suppose that joke went over my head. There are a few New Orleans editors - hence Tulane's football article is pretty lengthy. Do they say Red Stick is up north? Justin Wilson taught me north for Louisianans is Shreveport. Cake (talk) 23:37, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

• Yes it's the right account, it was a joke. As far as I'm concerned BR is north; I live 30 miles southwest of New Orleans. But either way the fact remains, there aren't many Cajuns in BR. The Cajun line is roughly everything south of NO, and BR just misses the cut. My accent usually generates a few glances when I go to LSU games. It's more of a novelty than the norm there. Lizard (talk) 02:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Also, input here would be appreciated. Lizard (talk) 03:04, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Something feels missing. Like there's a void in Wikipedia. Lizard (talk) 08:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Yes, let us hope he did not find a sink-hole. I added sources for the 1896 games so you can see the "Cadets" moniker. Cake (talk) 00:53, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, LSU started as a military academy under superintendent William Tecumseh Sherman (which is why the traditional nickname, Ole War Skule) so I can see them having the Cadets nickname, since they very well may have been cadets. Lizard (talk) 01:38, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Check this out Lizard (talk) 01:48, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

"Modeled after VMI" sure sounds like it. May be the proper pre-Tigers name. Poor Oscar B. Turner. Cake (talk) 04:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

That'd be pretty cool if we could find that out for sure. We'd be like archeologists uncovering a piece of forgotten history. Groundbreakers even. Lizard (talk) 04:55, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Just read up on Turner. Someone apparently wanted to axe him a question. Lizard (talk) 05:00, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Was it the Axeman of New Orleans? Also, consider the "Cadet Band" had Pleasant just as the football team. Also check this out. Cake (talk) 21:42, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

• Having to WP:RFPP Odell Beckham Jr. for the second time. Honestly the page should be perma-protected, being someone as polarizing as he. Lizard (talk) 22:08, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I put it off for long enough. Just need birth info as usual. Lizard (talk) 02:04, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Is it -er or -ar? Cake (talk) 02:44, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

It is in fact -er. That was my mistake. So if I typed it with -ar somewhere just ignore/fix it. Lizard (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

How did Jim Taylor lead the conference in scoring in '56 but wasn't named to even the 3rd team on anyone's All-SEC team? That's befunkling. Lizard (talk) 08:45, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

After 1932 I am not as good with such questions, but I guess he was out-shined by Johnny Majors or was too young. Considering he got the recognition in '57, perhaps it was an artifact of fall and spring semesters, or of the All-SEC teams being set before the season was over. There are many times when one closes a year strong and as a result they are on the next season's All-Southern team. It's as if one should hyphenate the seasons like in basketball, or used to in football. Consider Heisman giving Fenton All-Southern honors in 1909 but not 1908, for one example. Cake (talk) 12:37, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I remember seeing that he lit up the freshman team in '54 and the coaches were floored when he transferred out to play at a JuCo in '55. If only he would've stayed at LSU his sophomore season, it probably would have given him recognition for next season at least. On another note I'm kinda salty Cannon was snubbed for the Maxwell in '58 and '59. He could've had quite a sweep if he would've picked it up in either season. That's about the only major accolade he never won in college. Lizard (talk) 18:13, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to re-do the All-American table on LSU Tigers football. Not sure who made it but it's just inaccurate all the way around. For one thing, most of the playing years weren't even listed until I put them about a month ago. Secondly it only lists the current 5 selectors, so it doesn't accurately portray consensus and unanimous selections. Kavanaugh and Tinsley are rolling in their graves. Or not, they probably don't care. I like how Florida's is formatted, I think I'll gank it. Never mind, too much work. Lizard (talk) 00:53, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

I was quite surprised how big a man on campus Jess Tinsley was when I only vaguely knew of his cousin. Outside of Doc Fenton, he's probably the greatest Tiger within the scope of the early south, where I try to put my focus. Tons of great teams not-named LSU in 1927 and 1928, but Jess remains in there. I don't know if there is a Tinsley Drive or something out there, but there probably should be. What is my issue with the infoboxes? Do you mean which infobox I choose or how I phrase what is stated in the infobox? Cake (talk) 02:20, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of cousins, do you know if Robert and Rowson were ancestors to Jerry? And about infoboxes, I was just wondering why sometimes you put the player's college playing career in the pastteams field on infobox NFL player, and sometimes "Louisiana State" or "LSU" (but you explained that already). On Jess Tinsley's you even typed out "Louisiana State University." Lizard (talk) 02:29, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

It just feels right I suppose. Lynn Bomar played in the NFL, so he gets infobox NFL player, but his college tenure is ten times as interesting and important. I've seen that with Stovall and wondered the same thing but couldn't find much one way or the other. Rowson probably most deserves an article of those on the 1908 team without one. Robert looks slickest of anyone in the team photo. Cake (talk) 07:00, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I see. I usually have trouble finding anything on players pre-WWII, even in the Picayune. So it's not that I don't want to work on those really old articles, it's just my resources are limited. And I've still got a few months to go before I'm eligible for newspapers.com with WP. Congrats by the way. How nice it is when WikiProjects intersect and you end up getting an unexpected award-thingy. Lizard (talk) 08:25, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I think I did pretty well on Dome Patrol. Oh how we long for a defense like that today in the Big Easy. Lizard (talk) 15:05, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

It is well sourced. There is some vague memory of Sam Mills. I don't know as much about the Saints. I dig the Vandy colors and having Archie Manning or Danny Wuerffel almost do something. Favre was oh so close to winning titles in Green Bay and Minnesota. Cake (talk) 23:24, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Gonna start on Bernie Moore. I already know I'll have trouble finding anything for his Mercer days, much less his LSU career. And google searching Bernie Moore brings up only the track stadium. Also I found a neat tidbit on Dupont. He scored 6 touchdowns against Tulane in 1913, which to my knowledge is an LSU record. Except, LSU's record book cuts off anything before ~1930. Lizard (talk) 00:23, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

6 TDs on Tulane is brutal. LSU that year loses only to Kirk Newell and Auburn. I will try to help on Mercer. This discussion has me recall Rammy Ramsdell. Cake (talk) 03:04, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Check out Abe Mickal. The great Kingfish denied by a college student. Lizard (talk) 02:45, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Funny. Vandy got you back in 1937. Sneezing better than Cagle is high praise. I wonder if Abe has Phoenician ancestors given he's from the border of Syria and Lebanon. Mickal and Luke Burch would both make an all-OB/GYN team. Cake (talk) 12:27, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Mickal is turning out to be quite an interesting character. Won the golden Sabre as LSU's top ROTC cadet, and was the president of the LSU student body, among other things. Lizard (talk) 19:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Also it's a shame I can't find out how to comment here to let them know the obvious flaw in their "Did you know?" Seeing as Long died in '35 he would've had a tough time being proud of anything in '36. Lizard (talk) 20:11, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

We might as well add Mickal to Template:LSU Tigers quarterback navbox. I'm finding various sources listing him as such, and if you look at his stats it'd be hard to argue. Might be why it's so hard to find anything on Ike Carriere and Bill May. Lizard (talk) 19:15, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

• Another Stovall. Mayhaps it was a popular south Louisiana surname at one point? I'm crossing my fingers for a royal LSU football family though. Lizard (talk) 02:15, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I wonder how popular the name is. There are still descendants of the Vandy Blakes around Nashville. Do you have Mickal starting at qb in any game lineups? I thought he was just a halfback who could pass, like Buck Flowers or Harry Gilmer or Jess Neely or Joe Guyon or Cagle for that matter. Being the team's best passer does not mean you are the quarterback. Halfbacks could pass and fullbacks could kick. Cake (talk) 06:29, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

You're probably right. It seems the sources that label him as a quarterback were written years later, such as this one. They probably figured any player who passed that often must be a QB. And now that I read that one closer, whoever wrote it didn't do much research if they thought Mickal was only a "superb passer," and that Baugh was "more than that" compared to Mickal. Certainly Baugh was one of the greatest all-around players, but Mickal was definitely right up there. Lizard (talk) 06:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on Bernie Moore by the way. I didn't have the page watched for some reason so I'm only just seeing it. Lizard (talk) 18:20, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Sure thing. Though I cannot speak with confidence on the era, "While the Tigers' Abe Mickal was also a superb passer, Baugh was more than that" did seem odd at first, until I read what came before. "Slingin' Sammy Baugh was football's prototype passer. While the Tigers' Abe Mickal was also a superb passer, Baugh was more than that;" that makes sense. One can check List of NCAA major college football yearly passing leaders as one example for how large Sammy looms, and he could kick. Cake (talk) 16:12, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Can you find any reliable source for the claim here that the 65 yard touchdown pass from Mickal to Tinsley against SMU in '34 held the record for "longest in the south," or anything like that. For one thing, the contemporary Picayune article says the pass was from Mickal to a "Sullivan," but I can't find a first name for the guy. And obviously the "record" claim is dubious in itself. I take everything on those HOF sites with a grain of salt. Lizard (talk) 17:49, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

That one had to sting. SMU's coach was Ray Morrison - note his status as forward pass guru. Cake (talk) 09:43, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, needless to say Mickal has been a pleasant surprise for someone who never played a snap in the pros. He was very much the Big Man on Campus if there ever was one. I guess earning the favor of the Kingfish will do that to a guy. It didn't hurt he was pretty good at football. Lizard (talk) 16:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Good to know. Only Kavanaugh was in the Hall before Mickal- do we have Mickal's stats? Go just a little bit before in time and you can wade into my territory nudge nudge. Here is a good list of those in the Hall needing the most help. Cake (talk) 14:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Incidentally, I've been sifting through the Picayune for Mickal's stats. If you go to my sandbox I've already gotten his scoring for '33. The more specific stats would take a lot of work though. Also I'll probably get to Kavanaugh's article next. Tinsley's doesn't need as much work. It seems Kavanaugh Jr. had one good season as a tight end for LSU as well. Lizard (talk) 17:41, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

I wonder if an LSU–Rice football rivalry article is merited. They've met 55 times. That's more than LSU's meetings with both Auburn and A&M. Although it was a little one-sided. Looks like it's getting a renewal in 2018 as well. Lizard (talk) 18:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

There certainly is a history there of southwest rivalries and LSU. This has Cannon's stats. I am still in the dark for Mickal. Cake (talk) 17:02, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

His TDs both passing and rushing are well documented but it's the yards that elude me. Also I'm sure Ray Morrison was the happiest man to see Mickal graduate, between what he did to SMU in '34 and Vandy in '35. Lizard (talk) 17:12, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I've finally found the most likely reason Mickal wasn't an All-American in '34; He missed the George Washington and Ole Miss games with an injury. Lizard (talk) 17:35, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

All the more reason for Morrison to pull out the stops in 1937 for Vandy's first win over a ranked opponent. 1934 Alabama didn't help. Probably the greatest southern team post 1917 Georgia Tech. Cake (talk) 16:00, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I've also found proof of existence of our mystery man "Sullivan." Appears it was Walter Sullivan, and it may well have been he who caught Mickal's pass against TCU like the Picayune said. See here and here. Now, it's possible that both those sources got their info from that same Picayune article, but it does raise more doubts about who really caught it. If only I could get my hands on original game logs or something. Lizard (talk) 17:33, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Coach Harry Mehre, after Georgia's loss to LSU in '35: "To beat them we would've had to use an 8-3-3-2-1 defense." Better still, after the game the LSU cadet corps ran onto the field to tear down the Georgia goalposts but some Georgia students got in the way to defend them, and a fist-fight broke out. Imagine the outrage if something like that happened today. There'd be calls for a 10 ft. barrier between the stands and the field at every stadium. Lizard (talk) 01:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Georgia just gets that ire going. Vandy hates 'em too. One of the dormant rivalries which were alive and well in the 20s. Even older, look up Reynolds Tichenor's recalling of games with Georgia. They always roughed him up. Cake (talk) 12:58, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Any idea where I can find military records for veterans? Besides physically travelling to the NPRC. I'd like to know as much as possible about Mickal, Kavanaugh, and Tinsley's WWII service. Lizard (talk) 15:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Fold3 isn't free, but it's the main website for that kind of thing. You can probably find draft registrations and the like on sites like familysearch Cake (talk) 21:06, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Stuff like this makes me scratch my head. This is (as of right now) the only edit this IP has ever made. I had to check the reference to make sure it was correct before. Why do people do these things? It's fascinating, really. Lizard (talk) 00:50, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you could use free use rationale for that Chinese Bandits image in Life, since I specifically mention the image being in the magazine. So, same rationale that you used on Casanova's. Even better if you can find out someone in the image is dead, but good luck making out any of them. Lizard (talk) 16:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Does it work for more than the cover? I guess that IP was Denny Myers from the grave. Cake (talk) 23:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure. On another note, I found an unlikely source for info on Kavanaugh. Do you know German, by any chance?. Lizard (talk) 06:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Nur ein bisschen. Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut. Die Faulen haben dies: Uebersetzen. Cake (talk) 14:36, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Ehh I can sort of make out most of it. Google translate really needs an upgrade. It's cool to know someone on the other side the world took interest in Kavanaugh. Lizard (talk) 14:54, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

It's usually the German wikipedia giving us translated articles, like Plato's unwritten doctrines. Cake (talk) 16:33, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

George Connor has to be the sorriest excuse of an article for a guy in both the college and pro HOF on this site. If only I cared enough. Lizard (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Check his stiff-arm photo on the Bears' site. Cake (talk) 21:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Was going to point out the Grantland Rice quote, but I should have known you would be all over that one. Lizard (talk) 22:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Have you watched A Knight's Tale by any chance? I have to watch it and write an essay on its consistency with the time period. Such as clothing, culture, the role of women, etc. I might need to cheat get advice from someone relatively familiar with the time period. I'm not totally sure, but I hear they didn't have disco in the Middle Ages. Lizard (talk) 00:15, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

There are too many films I haven't seen, and I wish I knew more on the Medieval period. I wouldn't be your man for either. I go wood trying to read Chaucer. Hildegard von Bingen is much better than disco. Cake (talk) 04:40, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@MisterCake: Find birth info for Willie Davis (defensive end) on your little doohickey. His birth name is William Delford Davis, but an IP claiming to be his son keeps removing his full name. I want to bomb it with citations so there's never any question again. Ask me if I'm serious about this. Lizard (talk) 05:59, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I could not find him (lisbon, la?), but I added one source, and it looks like you've got it covered. Cake (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't even think we claim anyone from that far north in the state. Like Tim McGraw. We just assume let Arkansas have them. Lizard (talk) 01:34, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Funny. The Times-Picayune regularly had news from Mississippi too. I imagine at one time a shift from France to Germany between Louisiana and Texas. This guy is/was a relative of mine. Cake (talk) 04:40, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Take a gander over here. I created a Template:State sports halls of fame but it looks like only about half the states who have one have a WP article for it. And a lot of the articles are severely lacking (see: Colorado Sports Hall of Fame). I started on Arizona's but this'll be a long-term project for sure. Lizard (talk) 19:06, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

I saw that. Vermont's is so tiny. Ray Fisher and ? Cake (talk) 23:19, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

They inducted James Taylor. James P. Taylor. This is his claim to fame. I just restored Alley Broussard, which had been PRODded 7 years ago. Luckily, unbeknownst to me I was watching the talk page of the culprit for other reasons, so I was able to catch my special achievement. Lizard (talk) 01:35, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe Seth Warner will get in as a medical trainer. I don't even remember Broussard. I guess all the bad memories of Jacob Hester took his place, and the mixed ones of Fred Taylor and Kevin Faulk dueling. Cake (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Seeing the work you and others put into getting articles to GA status really inspires me. Surely it must be a tedious process and only the most well-written articles get in. And then I see this little number. Ain't that a kick in the head. Lizard (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Been a long time since I've been stung by that one. That is my second favorite thing to follow "I've got bad news guys...", behind "the AIDS ribbons aren't working." Cake (talk) 07:48, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I was actually referring to how ridiculous it is that that's a GA. But yes, you've just lost the game. Lizard (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Can you find the source for this image? Much better than a posed passing shot. It'd be nice if there were an action shot along with him as the old fuddy-duddy-looking, bow-tied OB/GYN. Cake (talk) 16:29, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Nay, peasant. Unrelated, I wish I could have started editing WP sooner in life. The "cite everything or die" M.O. really comes in handy when writing research papers. Much more so than that dumb MLA format that was drilled into my head in middle school. In the grading rubric my professor has, and I quote: "DO NOT USE MLA FORMAT OR I WILL THROW YOUR PAPER IN A GUILLOTINE!" Lizard (talk) 23:16, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, they seem to focus more on rote learning of a style than the why. The Chicago style used by historians is infinitely superior to the others. Footnotes are also infinitely superior to endnotes. Nobody likes a second bookmark. I also wish our schools would teach science in a physics-chemistry-biology series rather than the opposite. I would be tempted to turn in a paper in webdings on a dot matrix printer but without MLA style. Cake (talk) 21:21, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I think we should move this to a sub-page since we've written quite an exposition. I propose we move over here. And just put that page on your watchlist. Lizard (talk) 03:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Conversion of Infobox NFL coach to Infobox NFL biography

Hey, LTW. Check your sandbox for comments. You're ready to fly solo. Please keep a list of those articles you have converted from Infobox NFL coach to Infobox NFL biography, so I may spot-check for consistency. Here's the list of remaining articles to be converted: [1]. I've been knocking off roughly 10 per day; with your help we should be able to finish this round in a couple weeks. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 08:52, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Cool beans, I'll see how many I can knock out. And you can call me Lizard. The "the Wizard" part is mainly because "Lizard" was taken. Lizard (talk) 17:49, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

But never Elizabeth. As of 1:00 p.m. today, there are 151 remaining articles that still use Infobox NFL coach (not including 3 template instruction pages), down from 340 two weeks ago. With some help from you, this has become very manageable. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:02, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Are you following a certain order of articles to convert, or are you just picking at random? I wanna make sure we don't double-up on any of them. Lizard (talk) 02:14, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm working through the lists of currently active NFL coaches by position held (head coach, tight ends coach, etc.), converting them as I go. For now, I am skipping those that are improperly using Infobox gridiron football person (CFL), Infobox college coach, or are otherwise improperly formatted. Don't worry about the order of those you convert; just keep doing what you're doing.

Once we're done converting the last 130 or so instances of Infobox college coach, we can circle back around and properly format all of the active NFL coaches, and start working our way back the daisy-chain successions of head coaches to ensure that they are all properly formatted (and not using another improper infobox template). The primary mission, for now, is to get rid of Infobox NFL coach, after which we can focus on other issues and draw in more help. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 11:38, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Just a general question: persondata should be removed from articles, right? Lizard (talk) 16:33, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Unless you're checking Wikidata to make sure everything usable has already been transferred, it's better to leave it. There is a pending bot action to remove all of it, and compare what's already been transferred previously. I was kind of involved in the whole mess at the end, trying to make sure as much usable Persondata got transferred to Wikidata as possible. Feel free to whack any succession boxes for assistant coaches and starting positions, though. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:15, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

So removing assistant coach (e.g. def coordinator, off coordinator) succession boxes is definitely an agreed-upon thing, right? Just making sure since there's still a lot of them. Lizard (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

There was never a consensus to add them in the first place. We replaced all of the head coaches succession boxes with navboxes 6 years ago, and then a handful of IP users and other peripheral editors started adding them for other coaches. They're ugly clutter. Whack'em. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

This'll be fun. Lizard (talk) 00:47, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I think I've knocked out most assistant coach succ boxes but I'm sure there's still some hanging around. I thought I was nearly done last night and then I found about 50 more today. Lizard (talk) 19:34, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

So, tell me about Romeo Crennel's swimming career Lizard (talk) 04:03, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

And therein lies the danger of clicking on the edit summaries auto-generated by Windows, my friend. I'm surprised I haven't done that more often than I have. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 09:09, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Should we always wikilink the football team of the college they attended regardless of if they played college football or not? I actually just noticed Heimerdinger played WR at Eastern Illinois, which I didn't see at first, so that's why I didn't link the football team. But I figured I'd ask anyway just in case the situation came up. Lizard (talk) 08:35, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

No. If the subject didn't play for his college team, don't pipelink to the team but to the university. Probably a good idea to leave a hidden text message that the subject attended University X, but didn't play for the X football team. BTW, we're under 100 left. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

• Looks like you're on cruise control. Sorry I haven't been pulling my weight lately. Some other projects have gotten me sidetracked. Lizard (talk) 18:11, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: I'd be down for helping out with the conversions later this week, maybe when I get sick of looking at newspapers for the '58 team draft and need a break. About that list below, it doesn't look like any of them are current NFL coaches; many of them are deceased and one is coaching in college currently. Also I deleted a "see also" on Perry McGriff that you added a hundred years ago. Felt like it wasn't needed. Lizard (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: @MisterCake: I was not prepared for the explosion of orange that awaited me when I expanded Template:University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame. Since you two seem to be most responsible I'd like to thank you for reminding me to keep my face at least 3 feet from the monitor at all times. Lizard (talk) 05:53, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Isn't your room draped in bright yellow? ;) Cake (talk) 20:43, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

My room is surprisingly bare, but I do have a few memorabilia hanging around. And a whole shelf on my dresser dedicated to it. I often wear LSU shirts and stuff to class, and I got an earful when my university gave LSU their first loss of the season in baseball last year. And it was their only loss for quite a while. Lizard (talk) 23:52, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it's going to be awkward when I have to TfD Dirtlawyer's precious baby. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

• @Dirtlawyer1: Infobox pro football player is in the process of getting thwacked, right? Lizard (talk) 08:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Articles that have no infobox at all

List

• Coaches:
• Dave Brazil (American football)
• Dave Adolph
• Ralph Hawkins (American football)
• John Mazur
• Ron Toman (questionable notability)
• Ray Prochaska
• Ray Handley
• Charlie Waller (American football)
• Harvey Johnson (coach)
• Jack Faulkner
• Red Miller
• Bobb McKittrick
• Jim Hanifan
• John Matsko
• Don Martindale
• Jim Hostler
• Chris Hewitt
• Randy Brown (American football)
• John Meyer (American football)
• Earl Leggett Players:
• Ernie Barnes
• Rudy Barber
• Don Brown (running back)
• Charles Edwin Brown
• Bob Brodhead
• Tom Buckman
• Bob Cappadona

Articles converted so far (Lizard)

List

• Bob Snyder
  Jerry Angelo
  Red Hickey
  Dave Shula
  Hamp Pool
  Pete Henry
  Ray Richards
  Bull Behman
  Gene Smith (American football)
  Kurt Schottenheimer
  Jimmy Raye II
  Greg Blache
  Gary Zauner
  Mike Murphy (American football)
  Rod Graves
  Harland Svare
  Dick Rehbein
  Charlie Sumner
  Lloyd Lee

 Done Good job. As of 2:50 p.m., today, there are 104 left to be converted from the original 340 three weeks ago. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Mike Heimerdingerdingdong
Jim Vechiarella
Buster Ramsey
Lud Wray
John Marshall (American football) (unsure about the coaching position at that junior college)

Hi

I saw you remove a dead link from Marc Trestman. You can use the Wayback Machine to search for archived links. I don't think there are any other big archiving sites, so if it isn't on there it probably isn't archived anywhere. Here's the last archived version of his website. It's probably not the best example but anyways. Thanks for your edits. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:04, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9: Ah, thanks. I was wondering about archived websites but I hadn't gotten around to figuring it out yet. I'll be sure to check from now on. Lizard (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Dingers

Playing in the age of leather helmets, this guy probably got a lot of heimerdingers. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:23, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

How about this one. Probably has a few himself. Those Germans don't mess around when it comes to hockey. Lizard (talk) 06:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Also, that gave me a good "LOL." Lizard (talk) 07:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

• @Jweiss11: I bet this guy's infobox was fun for whoever had to type it. Lizard (talk) 23:11, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Mail call

Hello, Lizard the Wizard. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Thank you for supporting my RfA

	Brianhe RfA Appreciation award
	Thank you for participating at my RfA. Your support was very much appreciated even if I did get a bit scorched. Brianhe (talk) 08:00, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Tyler Lafauci

As an LSU fan, Tyler Lafauci appears to be a worthy subject, should you choose to pursue it. He was an All-SEC offensive lineman in 1972 and 1973, was selected as a first-team All-American by the AFCA, AP, and NEA, and has been inducted into the Louisiana State University Athletic Hall of Fame as noted here. Offensive lineman don't get a lot of respect, but Lafauci is no Al Dampier. Cbl62 (talk) 05:06, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing him out. Yeh the difficulty with o-linemen is that there really aren't any tangible statistics to their name. We can look at a running back from the early days and see a 1,000 yard season and know he must've been a great player. But all we can do with linemen is take the old news sources' words for it. Lizard (talk) 05:27, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

On the subject, Will Blackwell is another with which I had trouble. Cake (talk) 01:12, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

A tragic case. I'm not sure how he didn't make it in the NFL but I'm sure if he did there'd be a lot more on him. Maybe it was a work ethic thing. Lizard (talk) 18:14, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Billy Cannon

Billy Cannon seems related to the Rams organization. It's clearly in the contract dispute section. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

@Ricky81682: Ah, true. My mistake. Lizard (talk) 13:01, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

No worries. It's not obvious in the slightest. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

@Ricky81682: Realistically, how close do you think this article is to GA status? Lizard (talk) 17:19, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Lizard, the Cannon article is certainly a solid B right now. It's a good candidate to push down the GA process. I would go for it. I don't have much experience with the GA process, but our lawyer friend, among many others, can advise. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:24, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

In that case I'll look over it a few times, copyedit and maybe add something about his track career at LSU. The only thing I'm unsure about is the image of Cannon during his punt return. Cake uploaded it as fair use but Cannon is still alive so I'm not sure how that works. If the article goes through the GA process I'm sure the image would get a thorough looking-at. If only I could find just one more completely free image I'd say it's a done deal. Lizard (talk) 20:52, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

• I did the thing. Now we wait. Lizard (talk) 03:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Just the ones I checked

Seems to be a popular format: Joe Nathan, Bob Griese, Billy Joe (American football), Joe O'Donnell (American football), Billy Shaw, Art Shell, Ken Stabler. Not saying you're wrong, just that it's popular.Mlpearc (open channel) 18:17, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

There was a discussion about a year ago, but you're right. There really isn't a consensus on how it should be done. I think that if the individual's name is Joseph, and it says "Joe" in the article title and infobox, it should be obvious that Joe is a nickname and Joseph is his birth name. I think it's more appropriate when the nickname isn't an abvious short-form, e.g. Greasy Neale. Lizard (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Barnstar!

I've never given a barnstar before so this may be the wrong one but:

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For your tireless editing of Dome Patrol, I thank you. Leggomygreggo8 (talk) 18:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Leggomygreggo8 (talk) 18:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Ha, thanks. I'm sure there are more appropriate barnstars but I'll take it. The article was relatively easy since the info was readily available in various sources. Someone just needed to put it all together. Lizard (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm just happy that someone did put it all together. I'm trying to get a WikiProject New Orleans Saints up so itwould be an article that wouldn't have to mess around with. Leggomygreggo8 (talk) 19:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Two persons?

Are you sure that Alexis Thompson (American football owner) and Alexis Thompson (field hockey)‎ are separate people? The profile page from sports-reference.com provided in both articles suggests otherwise. --Avilena (talk) 08:21, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

@Avilena: Seems you're right. Strange that it was overlooked for so long. It was probably a case of someone wanting to have an article on every Olympian and they only bothered to look into their Olympic career. I'll put the tags back. Lizard (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Now that I look more closely it's probably a no-brainier. We could probably rename one of the pages to Alexis Thompson since that's a DAB page consisting of only both of his personas and Lexi Thompson. Then merge into that. Lizard (talk) 16:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

I went ahead and merged both pages into Alexis Thompson. Good catch. Lizard (talk) 02:36, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Billy Cannon

The article Billy Cannon you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Billy Cannon for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jaguar -- Jaguar (talk) 14:41, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Louis Williams

All of the pages that link to Louis Williams are for a basketball player, you might want to start a DAB for this guy or something instead so the wrong ones wont get linked! Wgolf (talk) 00:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

@Wgolf: Yes, I noticed. I'm on it. Lizard (talk) 00:08, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

No problem! Wgolf (talk) 00:08, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Hey

Hello, Lizard the Wizard. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

CrashUnderride 02:52, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Re:Nice to meet you

Hi Lizard. Thanks for reaching out. I hope I never go extinct on Wikipedia. I love contributing especially because I feel Louisiana is somewhat underrepresented on Wikipedia. Just haven't had the time recently to contribute as much as I did in the past. LSU football looks great with the additional pictures and content. I added a few things back just because I feel they're important and other SEC schools have them on their football pages. You didn't mess things up and I like the Chinese Bandits page. Take care and I'm sure we'll work together in the future.User:spatms (talk) 20:51, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Spatms: Actually, the bulk of what's on the LSU football page was added by MisterCake. Most of my work has been with pages relating to the Dietzel years, and the 1930s Hall of Famers (Abe Mickal, Gaynell Tinsley, and Ken Kavanaugh). And of course the drafted players page, which I really never planned and just did on a whim. Lizard (talk) 05:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Hey

Thank you for information on my talk page, from now on I'll put the draft templates on articles outside the championships, awards and honors group. Thank you very much. User:ChuckNoll vs Vince Lombardi (talk) 14:30, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

So, about Jarvis Landry

I was confused about where the All Pro selection was originating from so I was wrong about it being on his page by mistake, I apologize for that. With that being said I love giving credit where credit is due and he is an amazing player with a bright future, but I also don't like giving credit where it's not due. The only All Pro selections that are acknowledged on Wikipedia that I have seen are from the Associated Press (AP) the Pro Football Writers of America (PFWA) and Sporting News (SN), of which lists he is not included. As such I don't see any reason why it should be included.

Understandable, but note that Wikipedia is not the be-all and end-all of All-Pro selections. Remember that Wikipedia as a source is not reliable, so basing All-Pro selections on what we see on Wikipedia isn't really how we should do things. Instead, we should look at what the NFL itself recognizes as selectors... which would be none of them, because the NFL has the Pro Bowl. That being said, the above selectors are indeed the most respected and cited, but they aren't the only ones. The fact that Pro-Football-Reference, a highly cited source on Wikipedia, recognizes the PFF selections is reason enough to include them here. And Landry isn't the only player who I've done this for; ideally it should be done for all players on Wikipedia. Lizard (talk) 15:17, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@OneBucPerson: You're welcome to comment on the talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format if you feel there should be a change. Lizard (talk) 06:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

LSU vs. Louisiana State

Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not just for sports fans, so even though LSU is easily recognized by any football fan, the average person does not necessarily know what this abbreviation stands for. --bender235 (talk) 02:55, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@Bender235: in the case of an infobox or a records/stats table, when you refer directly to one of the LSU Tigers teams, "LSU" is correct. "LSU", not "Louisiana State" is the accepted and standardized short name, as defined by the main article, LSU Tigers, and everything downstream from there. You are correct though that "LSU" may not be easily recognized by an unacquainted reader. Therefore, "Louisiana State University" with a parenthetical "LSU" should be introduced somewhere in the lead or body of the article. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:06, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

The school is rarely referred to as "Louisiana State" in the same capacity as Florida State, Mississippi State, etc. By far the more recognized name is "LSU," which is what readers will be expecting. I've only ever seen the team referred to as "Louisiana State Tigers" by Sports-Reference, a site that refers to UNLV as Nevada-Las Vegas. Lizard (talk) 03:15, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

NFL.com refers to UNLV as "Nevada-Las Vegas" [2] and to UTEP as "Texas-El Paso" [3], so it's not quirky at all.

Again, LSU by all likelihood is unknown to Wikipedia readers unfamiliar to American football, as would be "Ole Miss" for Mississippi. --bender235 (talk) 03:32, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

But still, the initials don't stand for "Louisiana State," they stand for "Louisiana State University." The logic may be that it's so unfamiliar readers can better understand it, but "Louisiana State" is unfamiliar even to readers who do understand. I've been a fan of the university's sports teams all my life and even I have to double-take when I read "Louisiana State." It's sacrificing familiarity for the sake of familiarity. Lizard (talk) 03:55, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Not true, because it's not just "Louisiana State" alone, it's "College: Louisiana State." Just like people will recognize "College: Michigan" implies the University of Michigan, not the state of Michigan. --bender235 (talk) 18:26, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Again the familiarity-of-unacquainted-readers issue is beside the point. If you're talking about the LSU Tigers, then "Louisiana State" is inappropriate for usage in standardized structures like an infobox or data table, as is Southern California, Texas Christian, Brigham Young, Southern Methodist, etc. The accepted short names, as defined in the relevant article titles, are to always be used in those cases. Explain whatever you think needs explaining in the prose of the article. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:55, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that is the name of the university's athletics teams, the Michigan Wolverines. I'm sorry but I really don't understand where you're coming from here. I'm trying to see an advantage to "Louisiana State" over "LSU" but I'm at a loss.

• LSU is the name of the athletics teams.
• There are no other major American universities with the initials LSU, unlike OSU or MSU.
• The Louisiana State University page states in the first sentence of the lead "often referred to as LSU", but makes no mention of the "Lousiana State" diminutive.
• "LSU" has been an initialism for the school and the football team since the 19th century.
• Fans, opponents, and most sources you can find will refer to the team as LSU. Lizard (talk) 19:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Treatment for a heimerdinger

When you have a grade IV heimerdinger, you an need intravenous drip of emendorfers. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Those silly Germans and their silly last names. Like "Weiss." Lizard (talk) 05:08, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Just reading Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaft gives me a heimerdinger. Cake (talk) 07:46, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft Lizard

Next to the place with the this Cake (talk) 02:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Article for deletion

As someone who has worked on LSU related football articles. There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1918 Montana Grizzlies football team you may be interested in participating in. I co-nominated 1918 LSU Tigers football team for deletion.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 17:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Russell Wilson

Hey, the Infobox template says that awards for major statistical categories are fair game so not sure why you removed the passer rating award. Also it denotes having a separate awards section for those not appropriate for the infobox but you didn't move them you just deleted them aqwfyj ^Talk/_Contribs 03:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aqwfyj: The passer rating season leader as a major award is subjective, as is most of the awards. But we're in the process of trying to standardize the infobox. The fact is, season passer rating leaders are not included in most infoboxes. It just doesn't get the coverage that, say, season touchdown pass leaders and passing yards leaders does. The rationale for the others:

• NFC/AFC champions are seen as minor, since half of the time they are redundant when the player also won the Super Bowl that year. If we only kept the NFC/AFC championships that players won win they didn't win the Super Bowl, you can imagine the mass of editors adding in the others, thinking it was a mistake.
• Pro Bowl MVP awards are seen as minor because 1) the Pro Bowl is basically 2-hand-touch football and not an actual competition and 2) Pro Bowl MVP does not have its own stand-alone article.
• Links to other sections of the article ("Other awards and honors") are unnecessary in the infobox, because the table of contents already serves that purpose.

And I'm not sure what you mean by it denoting having a separate awards section for awards that aren't appropriate. If the wording is misleading, let me know and I can edit it. Lizard (talk) 04:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Passer rating is objectively a major award. It is the official stat used by the NFL to determine the league passing leader. aqwfyj ^Talk/_Contribs 03:47, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

If this is your only objection, then please don't revert my entire edit. I'll be willing to accept that passer rating leaders are a major award after discussion and consensus at WP:NFL. Until then I'm reverting once more. Please be aware of WP:3RR. Lizard (talk) 04:12, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Definitely not my only objection. You're removing a lot of cited info which has no valid basis to be deleted. If you have some supporting document for why those stats should be deleted, please share it. aqwfyj ^Talk/_Contribs 05:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aqwfyj: My document for why they should be removed is here Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format#Infobox. If we listed every little petty thing in the infobox just because it's cited it would be ridiculously lengthy. I asked that you wait for consensus at WP:NFL on the matter. If this is really that important to you, if consensus is that it should be included you're welcome to go to every player that has achieved it and add it to their infobox. Lizard (talk) 05:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, you are the only contributor to that page. Are those official guidelines? Did anyone else provide input for those guidelines? I'm fine with leaving out petty details from the infobox, but the official NFL passing champion isn't a petty accolade. aqwfyj ^Talk/_Contribs 12:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aqwfyj: Yes, I proposed the guideline on WT:NFL before creating that page. Admittedly there were very few responses after a week of it being there, but the only response from one person was in agreement so I assumed WP:SILENCE and went ahead with it. So far there hasn't been much resistance until now, so hopefully we can get some sort of consensus either way. And yeh, one of my fears was that it would come off as me trying to enforce my views but really all I want to see is some standards in the infobox, like the MLB and NBA has. Lizard (talk) 16:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aqwfyj: I'm sorry, this is getting ridiculous. There's no reason why Wilson's infobox should be immune from the guideline at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format#Infobox, which every other player's infobox follows (or will eventually). You say Wilson's follows it, but it doesn't. What I'm removing is clearly stated SHOULD NOT be in the infobox. Please let me know if you're having trouble understanding something about it and I'll do my best to clarify. Lizard (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Those are not official guidelines for the infobox. And you said you went ahead with creating that page because there wasn't much objection, but I have an objection. If material is cited and notable, it should remain in the article. aqwfyj ^Talk/_Contribs 23:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Aqwfyj: Who said anything about removing it from the article? We're talking about the infobox. I don't see any citations by what I'm removing so I assume all of that is already somewhere in the article, with citations, right? Then what's the issue? I'm not removing any cited material. Please don't accuse me of something I'm not doing. Lizard (talk) 01:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Ezekiel Elliot

Lol I think we're having a conflict of interests. The reason I named the Sullivan Award as the "85th Award Winner" is because the winner prior to Elliot has the label "84th Award Winner," see "John Urschel." Either we need to remove both or specify both. Let's coordinate instead of argue and agree to a common format. Deal? Mattatencio93 (talk) 22:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Mattatencio93: Alright, thanks for being reasonable. I'd say remove all instances of specifying it. It isn't done for any other award, in any other sport. Heisman, Maxwell, Archie Griffon, etc. Lizard (talk) 22:05, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Sweet deal man glad we could work it out. Happy Friday. Mattatencio93 (talk) 22:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC) Mattatencio93 (talk) 22:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Mattatencio93: I'm actually not sure about having Sugar Bowl MVP in there either. For college, I've usually only kept national championship game MVPs. Those guidelines are a work in progress, but the primary goal is cutting down on some of the stuff in infoboxes we used to let slide. If he becomes a star in the NFL in a few years and racks up a lot of pro accolades, I think we could remove the Sugar Bowl MVP award as minor. Hopefully by that time we'll have a better method. It's just tough since there are SO many awards in football compared to other sports. Lizard (talk) 01:32, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion (just my opinion) bowl games are as important as the championship games in terms of MVP status. If we add the champion accolades we should add the MVP accolades as well, otherwise they would be incredibly irrelevant. Although like you said, hopefully there is a better method to determine what is and isn't important in a few years, hopefully even sooner than that. Mattatencio93 (talk) 02:08, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@Mattatencio93: I'd hold off on referencing the conversation at WT:NFL for infobox cleanups. At the moment I'm typing up a comprehensive list of every possible award a football player can earn, and the plan is to get people to vote on which ones to include in the infobox. Ideally I'd like 8–10 yes/no votes for each one, so I'll let you know when I finish it. Lizard (talk) 16:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard Alright man I'll hold off until we can get a firm template in place to use as a reference. As you can no-doubt tell by my edits, the ones I kept are the ones I'm all-in for using. Let me know what's up. Mattatencio93 (talk) 17:38, 19 June 2016 (UTC) Mattatencio93 (talk) 17:38, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

@Mattatencio93: It's true I've been putting highlights in reverse chronological order, but that was a mistake on my part. See the parameters and instructions section on Infobox NFL biography. It says "Achievements go in reverse chronological order, from most recent to earliest." However, if you look at the example that's there (which I didn't), it's not exactly in reverse chronological order, but listed in groups of similar awards. Whoever wrote those instructions didn't make it very clear though, so I came up with a suggestion on the talk page there. You're welcome to comment on your thoughts. Actually, I'd like if you did, since I've been having to beg people to give input on these things lol. Lizard (talk) 16:44, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Season links in Infobox

What is the rationale for removing season links like you did for Ka'imi Fairbairn's Lou Groza Award. It seems useful if someone wants to see other major award winners that season. (BTW, nice catch on redundant "first-team" for consensus AA in football)—Bagumba (talk) 01:21, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Just seemed like WP:OLINK. And I was wondering about the "consensus first-team"; I knew basketball listed them that way but I hadn't seen it like that for football. Also, he must have the longest name in NFL history, no? Lizard (talk) 01:25, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm most active on basketball, where practice is to link year to most relevant article. After a quick scan, it seems like other sports don't link to general season articles. No big. Re: AA, it seems college basketball has consensus 1st and 2nd team AA's, so it makes sense to distinguish, whereas football only has 1st team (for whatever reason). Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 01:35, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

PFHOF improvement

Thanks for picking up several articles. One thing, though. It's really frowned upon by many to upgrade articles based on your own work. It's essentially grading your own work. After you improve an article, it's preferable to allow others to evaluate whether the upgrade is warranted. Cbl62 (talk) 07:54, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

@Cbl62: Is it? I wondered about that. Could I ask you to assess from now on? I'll let you know when I think I've done all I could on an article. Lizard (talk) 18:39, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Sheldon Richardson

I don't know where you got that from but the associated press All-Pro is the official one. The rest is from different sources. Also it's good to differentiate them to avoid any confusion. Pmaster12 (talk) 15:34, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Where is your source that says the AP is the official All-Pro selector? The NFL doesn't recognize any All-Pros. Lizard (talk) 20:21, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

And I don't think it's best to separate each one. We're trying to slim down the infobox, and having 4 or 5 awards instead of grouping them into one causes a lot of unneeded clutter. Lizard (talk) 20:27, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abe Mickal

The article Abe Mickal you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Abe Mickal for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Sainsf -- Sainsf (talk) 08:01, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Don Hutson

Nice work on Don Hutson! It looks really good. I assessed it as B-class for now, but it looks really good for GA. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:46, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007: Cool beans, and thanks. I view Hutson to football as what Babe Ruth was to baseball, or Wilt to basketball. No one else was putting up stats like that back then. Of course, playing during the war helped. But as Hornung said he could've done what he did no matter the era. And I believe it. Lizard (talk) 19:04, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Same here! I can only imagine what he would have done in today's passing game. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:16, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

I'll be getting to Jim Taylor eventually, since he's in my realm of interest (LSU). Lizard (talk) 19:40, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Great! Let me know if you need anything (I can copyedit, review and assess where necessary). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:49, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007: Not sure if this qualifies as "anything," but could you see what the Offensive philosophy (American football) page looked like? Seems like it could be worth an article but I don't wanna WP:REFUND if it's a stub that would need a lot of work. Lizard (talk) 19:39, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

It was pretty long and had over 1,000 edits, so I restored it here: Draft:Offensive philosophy (American football). Let me know if you are going to work on it and I can restore the article with its history. It was prodded, so probably not that controversial to bring back. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:08, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007: Thought you might find this interesting: The first multiple-time NFL MVP was Hutson. The most recent multiple-time MVP is Aaron Rodgers. Imagine that pair together. On that note, is there a way I can upload a cropped version of File:LambeauRetiredNumbers.JPG without overwriting it, while keeping the attribution info? I wanna use a closer crop on Hutson's number for his page. Lizard (talk) 01:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

They would be easily the best duo ever! You can use File:Price-101 Freeway-Apache Blvd VMR station.jpg as an example. I cropped the original to create this file. All you have to do is crop the original, upload it and attribute the new image back to the old one. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:03, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Fyi, not sure if I am missing something, but I couldn't find anything in that source related to him not being selected for military duty. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:15, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007: Did you try page 3? That story has multiple pages. I just linked page 1 for convenience purposes. "I was 1-A (in the draft) the last year," he said. "But I had three daughters, and I was never called." Maybe "avoid" isn't the best wording. Lizard (talk) 16:22, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

I think I deserve a {{trout}} for that... « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:28, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Galileo High School

Please review the talk section of the article before you make any more changes. John885 (talk) 09:24, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

@John885: How about you review WP:NOTLYRICS and learn about copyright law. "Most song lyrics published after 1922 are protected by copyright, and any quotation of them must be kept to a minimum, and used for the purpose of direct commentary or to illustrate some aspect of the style." In other words, typing out the entire song is a copyright violation, and is illegal. I also suggest reading WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because another school has their entire fight song typed out doesn't mean your school can have it too. Instead, the lyrics should be taken down from those pages as well. Lizard (talk) 09:35, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

I see you also deleted the Hymn lyrics for Lowell and Washington High Schools. Lyrics of the hymns are posted publicly throughout websites along with MP3 downloads and such including Washington High School's official website . Will that still be a copyright issue when the lyrics are already existing on other public domains? John885 (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

References

@John885: Yes. Wikipedia follows a much stricter guideline when it comes to copyright. This can be seen with how many biographical articles don't have an image of the person, even when there's tons available online. Wikipedia is "The Free Encyclopedia," so everything on it must be free. With a few exceptions of course, but posting lyrics to an entire song, no matter the length, isn't one of those exceptions. Lizard (talk) 17:46, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Buddy Ryan

On 1 July 2016, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Buddy Ryan, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

All-Pac-12

I saw you adding links to All-Pac-12/10 like here w/ Stephen Paea. FYI, you could link to the general All-Pac-12 article at List of All-Pac-12 Conference football teams in lieu of encoding to the conference article like All-[[Pac-12 Conference|Pac-10]]. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 19:53, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I actually did notice that article existed. Blame it on my laziness, and my desire to blow through these infobox cleanups as quickly as possible. But I'll start linking to it from now on. Lizard (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

No problem. You could always cite WP:NOTCOMPULSORY :-) —Bagumba (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Lookie Here

I thought you may want to know about what this guy has been up too AGAIN.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 20:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

@UCO2009bluejay: Yeh, notice his contribs that aren't the current versions. I went in behind him literally as he was doing it and removed them. Lizard (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	For the excellent copyedit and fixes on Blake Martinez Your work does not go unnoticed and is much appreciated! Church Talk 18:41, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

FYI more "rivalries"

Hey man, another article that needs a couple of eyes on it (in addition to mine) is Oklahoma State–Baylor football rivalry. I never hear OSU fans call it a rivalry, and it has been Proded but I don't know how long this will last. Also, the same editor has created a OSU-Tulsa rivalry. However, OSU-TU certainly is one (even NCAA CFB 0-whatever recognized it) so sources on that won't be hard to find. Regards-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 20:49, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Email

You got a few emails from me. I switched up my email, so I want to make sure they are going through. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 04:16, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I got them, replying now. Lizard (talk) 04:20, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Sent you another one with some info on Don Hutson. Let me know if you got it. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:03, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007: Got it. Lizard (talk) 15:07, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to User:Dissident93. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. — RainFall 03:45, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@RainFall: Is this a joke? Or is any edit to someone else's userpage automatically treated as vandalism, and WP:AGF is thrown out the window? Lizard (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

The second one, any edit to others' userpage is treated as vandalism. Even if you're fixing typos or bla bla (except removing vandalism, or if the user lets you do so)— RainFall 03:59, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@RainFal: Uhh, ok? WP:COMMONSENSE should clearly apply here, as well as WP:UP#OWN. There is no guideline (unless you can provide one) that states editing another's userpage is clear vandalism. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:30, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Dissident93: Hmm, Sorry. It's maybe because I'm not very familiar with Wikipedia. — RainFall 04:34, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@RainFall: No offense, but then maybe you shouldn't be posting block warnings without fulling understand policy. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:37, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@RainFall: Did I actually say I don't fully understand the policy? I've seen users editing others' userpages and gettin' reverted many times; so I thought. I'll take a look if such rule exists. — RainFall 04:40, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

It's no big deal. Let's just drop it. I should ask before editing someone else's page anyway. Lizard (talk) 05:08, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I dropped the stick. I shouldn't have templated the regular anyway, Cheers! — RainFall 05:38, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Stub categories

Would you mind looking through Category:American football biography stubs's tree and placing {{Category diffuse}} where applicable? I have bot approval to go through and sort stubs on the basis of existing categorization for categories tagged for diffusion, but I'm avoiding doing that on categories I've tagged to prevent anyone from complaining that I'm skirting the rules of my approval by doing so. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:49, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

@BU Rob13: Depends. I expect appropriate compensation in the form of barnstars. Lizard (talk) 21:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@BU Rob13: How about I just diffuse them myself. Lizard (talk) 03:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I mean, you could, but I have a blanket bot approval for it. It would take me minutes to diffuse them whereas it would take an editor doing it manually many hours. (And I can provide such compensation! ) ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Never you mind the compensation. I'm interested in how a bot would handle a player like O'Neal Adams. Besides having no infobox. He played end, a position that doesn't exist today, therefore doesn't have an appropriate stub tag. Lizard (talk) 04:04, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd be doing sorting based on their presence in categories like Category:American football offensive guards and Category:1918 births, as in the case of Roger Eason. In the case of O'Neal Adams, he doesn't fit into a proper categorization scheme, so I'd need to manually move him. A sampling shows that many can be moved, although some will remain. Looking at the six people currently in the "E"'s, two would be sorted appropriately, three wouldn't because they don't contain position information (and thus should be researched by an editor, manually, since they can probably be improved), and one is for a coach who isn't categorized properly, but I could handle those sorts in a semi-automated way by finding articles with "coach" somewhere in a template and giving a quick manual once-over to make sure they belong in a coaching category. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 06:37, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Couldn't we just create the end category and stub tag? Dissenters could argue that these players could be categorized as tight ends and/or defensive ends. While the end is the progenitor of those positions, it'd be incorrect simply because they didn't exist until two-platoon football came around in the 60s. I'm sure there's more than a few stubs that aren't diffused because of this. And additionally many others that have been incorrectly tagged, such as Eason. Today when we think "guard" we assume offensive guard, but when Eason played there were 5 positions: back, end, guard, tackle, and center, and each played on both sides of the ball. As it is now we have nowhere to put guards, backs, and tackles. Lizard (talk) 16:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, this got buried on my watchlist (as most things do these days). WP:WSS/P is where you could propose additional stub categories/templates. You may want to use Petscan first to find 60 articles that would likely populate the category, as this is usually necessary to create new stub categories. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 02:54, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Ah, and I'm sorry I completely forgot about this. Been invested in making Y.A. Tittle the greatest article in Wikipedia history. I can add the diffuse tags if they're still needed. Lizard (talk) 03:08, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Y.A Tittle

You can thank me for the free image in the infobox lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:13, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Bowman losing their copyright has done us wonders. Lizard (talk) 03:17, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

When a loss is actually a win. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:19, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh wow, looking at that site, looks like Bowman had a card for Tittle for every year from 1950–55. Thank you based WO-9. Lizard (talk) 03:21, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Lol, I'm a god now. I'll take it. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:23, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Participants

There are several of them that only have a handful of edits in years. The list could probably be whittled down to 80 or so if the requirement wasn't just one edit in two years lol. Also, just for the record, I didn't check all of them so I don't know if it's really current as of today. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9:Yes I purposely set a gracious time period. Realistically we probably have 25–30 actual editors. And I remember there not being many borderline 2-year editors so it's probably near up to date. It's only been 4 months. Lizard (talk) 02:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

I just checked all of them anyway. So, it's up to date now. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:42, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

ULL

You've probably seen this by now, but anytime another user removes Pncomeaux's "wording" in any article related to ULL, it is considered "vandalism". They're so set on it needing to be included that nothing will change their mind. An administrator is about to be contacted, if they keep it up. I'm sick of it! Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 21:48, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: I actually hadn't looked into his edits that much. Just going off of what you guys have been saying. It didn't really matter that much to me, I just didn't want people looking through the edit history and seeing an edit of mine was reverted for bogus "vandalism." Gotta protect my name. Wikipedia street cred is very important in life. Lizard (talk) 22:00, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Haha! I was just referring to the section(s) above this current discussion! He's posted it on other articles, too. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 22:34, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

He seems pretty dense. He's either intentionally disregarding my rationale for removing "Louisiana" in order to rile me up, or he doesn't understand what vandalism is. Either way it's not worth squabbling any longer. I'll let the higher powers do their thing. Lizard (talk) 22:46, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: Ok, seeing his messages on User talk:AllisonFoley has made it a bit harder to contain my squabblement. I figured when he accused me of being a WP:SPA it was just a direct response to my accusation of him for the same. But the audacity. The audacity of him to go and accuse Allison—who's done some fine work on LT athletics over the years—of being a COI editor hired by the university, when nearly all of his edits have been to ULL pages. Oh he's special. He's exceptional. Lizard (talk) 23:04, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Right?! l Him and I have a lengthy discussion back in June about Allison. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 23:30, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: Surely his track record of assuming bad faith and refusal to follow various guidelines is enough to bring to WP:AN, isn't it? An editor like that has no place here, and he's obviously caused a good deal of frustration for a number of editors. And I have to laugh at his assumption that there's some sort of in-state rivalry between Louisiana schools. The state is dominated by LSU. There's no competition on any front. I've got better things to do than sully the name of ULL. Lizard (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

That is why I began that discussion in the first place. I'm tired of this worthless discussion. I know he has been harassing Corky, so I thought just put the program's name up to the community to once again reaffirm existing consensus or start a new consensus based upon Common name (which still hasn't changed yet if ever), so we all can move on to other things. I don't have a problem with people taking special interest in their universities/programs etc. Hell both Corky's and my usernames have some reference to our schools, but there is a difference between constructive editing on a small piece of the college sports landscape (which if done fairly I am fine with), broad editing accross college football (as we three have) or, promoting a cause at the expense of the encyclopedia. I don't have anything against him, but I don't like his baseless accusations against anybody who disagrees with him. If only he decided to contribute the the season article campaign, notable players, or something more constructive.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:02, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Liz Wiz, I'm not sure... I stay away from the noticeboards and usually go straight to an administrator! If this discussion doesn't solve the issue, feel free him to take to AN... I'm sure a few of us will back ya!

Bluejay -- Preach, brother! lol I think you've got one thing wrong... Apparently, an LSU fan is biased, but not the one who is a fan of the Ragin' Cajuns. Therefore, only we're in the wrong if "we fully embrace and support those who are oppose to the school's branding efforts, while disparaging those who oppose our POV," not him. lol Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 01:28, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, I'm actually glad to know you all feel the same way. There's something reassuring about mutual aggravation, like it lets me know I'm not just being a grumpy grouch. Lizard (talk) 05:50, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeh maybe the notice board would be a bit much. Perhaps we should consult our resident admin. Lizard (talk) 22:54, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I referred to the user to WP:NOTVAND re: being sensitive about labelling edits as vandalism. Any continued reverts similar to ones like this since 2015 would warrant a posting at WP:AN3.—Bagumba (talk) 11:19, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@Bagumba: While he probably does misunderstand what vandalism is, I think his main issue is assuming bad faith, as seen with comments such as this. Since he views me as an evil LSU commie, of course he'll see my edits as vandalism. And God knows I don't have anything better to do on Wikipedia. Lizard (talk) 00:59, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Don Hutson

The article Don Hutson you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Don Hutson for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Miyagawa -- Miyagawa (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

It's raining GAs. Lizard (talk) 08:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Earl Campbell

The article Earl Campbell you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Earl Campbell for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of MWright96 -- MWright96 (talk) 05:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Deleting reason for including Don Hutson in WP:WikiProject Business

In this edit, you deleted the comment that explains why the article Don Hutson is marked for inclusion in WP:WikiProject Business. Such comments are a courtesy for articles where it's not clear what the connection between the subject of the article and the WikiProject is. By deleting the comment you increase the likelihood that a WikiProject member will decide that this article is out of scope. Note that based on the small paragraph of content and the fact that there is no mention of it in the WP:LEAD, a careful editor would naturally assume that Don Hutson's business career is far, far eclipsed by his sports career and therefore an article about him is out of scope for WP:WikiProject Business. And, by the way, most editors are not that careful. So if you don't like the original comment, please provide one that justifies Don Hutson's inclusion in WP:WikiProject Business. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 10:23, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

@DanielPenfield: Apologies. I've gone ahead and removed the WP:Business banner because he was indeed far more well-known for his football career. But the tone of the comment—the inclusion of only his lesser business ventures (he also owned a car dealership, and Chevy and Cadillac agencies) and the exclamation point—came across to me more as a condescending joke than a helpful tip. Sorry for assuming bad faith. But if that's normally how it's done I'll be sure not to delete any more of these comments in the future. Lizard (talk) 02:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

@DanielPenfield: I have to admit when I saw your edit I thought it was some sort of joke vandalism as well. I would recommend using a little more formal language next time, such as <!-- Hutson included in WP:BUSINESS because of ownership of various business ventures after his playing career. --> or something similar. That way there will be no confusion on what the purpose of your hidden comment was. And although not a participant of WP:BUSINESS, I would have to say that including a person within the project's scope just because they owned a few small businesses is probably a reach. It would seem more helpful for the project to tag articles on people who are notable because of their business ventures, but that is just my honest opinion. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:26, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007:

Your statement	My response
I would recommend using a little more formal language next time, such as <!-- Hutson included in WP:BUSINESS because of ownership of various business ventures after his playing career. --> or something similar.	Editors do not read long-winded explanations. They barely bother to read concise explanations. Also, I don't believe Don Hutson is an article anyone interested in the topic of Business would want to edit, so I would never write a comment that would support its inclusion.
your hidden comment was	The comment is visible to editors who didn't bother to read the article beyond the WP:LEAD, don't see the article's connection to the WikiProject, and then edit the talk page to remove the WikiProject template. It's "hidden", as you claim, to the people who aren't editing the talk page, as it should be. In other words, your insinuation of bad faith is without merit: It's visible to exactly those for whom it should be visible and hidden to exactly those for whom it should be hidden.
I would have to say that including a person within the project's scope just because they owned a few small businesses is probably a reach.	Sounds like you should take this issue up with User:MisterCake, as he or she added Don Hutson to WP:WikiProject Business in this edit.
It would seem more helpful for the project to tag articles on people who are notable because of their business ventures, but that is just my honest opinion.	The project did not tag the article. User:MisterCake is not a project member. And neither is User:Lizard the Wizard.

-- DanielPenfield (talk) 22:50, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard:

Your statement	My response
But the tone of the comment—the inclusion of only his lesser business ventures (he also owned a car dealership, and Chevy and Cadillac agencies)	It sounds like you're projecting your own elitist prejudices onto me. I respect laundromat operators and bowling alley proprietors. They're pursuing honest ways to make a living that I'm sure supports many families. What I don't respect is a non-project member taking zero time to consider why exactly a member of WikiProject Business would want to edit Don Hutson especially given the likelihood that no WP:RS beyond the one that documents his two-year laundromat experiment will ever be found to shed light on his career as a small businessman.
and the exclamation point—came across to me more as a condescending joke than a helpful tip.	No, it's more a commentary on the degree to which non-project members feel free determine project priorities and countermand longstanding project members.
I'll be sure not to delete any more of these comments in the future.	I think you missed the point, so I'll repeat: if you don't like the comment accompanying a WikiProject banner on an article's talk page, please provide one that justifies the article's inclusion in the project. Summarily deleting things with no explanation because we took all of one to two seconds to understand them is something we all should avoid, per WP:ROWN.

-- DanielPenfield (talk) 22:50, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Had no idea this would cause such trouble. Was just included so one might learn more about his business career by having WP:Business editors aware of it. If those same fellows deem it unworthy of the project, it is fine to remove it. Cake (talk) 01:06, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Haha, this made me smile. In my years here, I have never seen this type of response to a comment before. Lizard, no more talk page stalking from me, I promise :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 03:25, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@DanielPenfield: my apologies, I did not mean to upset you. I think we can all agree Don Hutson was a great player! Best of luck and cheers! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 03:27, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Vandalism

Saw you revert this user's edits at Ken Stabler. Lol, I just had to revert all of his other vandalism. He said Matt Hanousek was a Pro Bowler and added him to the 1990 Pro Bowl page. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 16:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

And Horace Gillom is apparently Jerome Bettis now. I can't tell if this is stealth vandalism, or this guy is just special. WP:AGF can only apply for so long. Lizard (talk) 16:31, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Yh, he probably won't be back regardless. You know how it is with these IPs. Just make a couple edits in ten minutes and then disappear forever lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 16:37, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

He's back with an account. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 15:58, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Section headings

A lot of articles on players, mostly current ones, have one sentence section headings for each team they sign with. What do you think looks better? This or this. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:52, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd say a section for each team is fine, even if it's just a single sentence. A section for each season is usually excessive. Lizard (talk) 23:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Or a section heading when they've only been on one team. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 00:04, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9: The love affair with sub-sections is an epidemic that won't easily be fixed. I noticed certain bad habits are usually the result of one editor dedicating their time to a specific thing within the project. We need to see if there's an editor responsible for stuff like stats tables and tell them a rushing stats table for, say, A. J. McCarron is completely unnecessary. As is a "Regular season" sub-section when the player has no playoff appearances. I wouldn't even list postseason stats at all. Lizard (talk) 23:00, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Yh, or people could at least put the rushing stats in the same table like at Tom Brady. Also, I think certain things like section headings are the way they are on Wikipedia is because the first person or persons who edited NFL articles on Wikipedia put section headings in and then everybody else just copied it. Also, people see section headings at articles like Peyton Manning and decide to use them for shorter articles. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Brady's is obnoxious. No need for a postseason section for every year. I'll just set {{TOC limit|3}} for now. Lizard (talk) 23:21, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

At least all the postseason section headings don't pop up in the table of contents when using that. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:25, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Never mind, that template is broken. Lizard (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Justin Simmons (American football)

The "unsourced information" you removed was taken from his BC bio. Just go to external links and click it, there it is. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 04:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

I see now, but personal details such as family on BLPs is a touchy subject that should be sourced with inline citations. I normally nuke them on sight if I don't see a footnote. As stated on WP:BLP, "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Lizard (talk) 04:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

One more

It probably seems like I'm flooding your talk page but anyway. This is the last message, I promise lol. Have you seen Josh Johnson's college stats. He had 43 TDs and one interception his senior year. FCS but still. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:21, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Took me forever to find that on the page. That's something else I'm not a fan of; college stats should be with the player's college career. Lizard (talk) 22:33, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Where do you think the nfl stats should go? Same place or with three brackets like ===Statistics===. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:48, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

See Earl Campbell's page. Lizard (talk) 22:52, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

So should I be bold and rearrange Peyton Manning? WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:56, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Go for it. No one gives a damn about that page. Lizard (talk) 22:58, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough lol. Also, can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:59, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I'll go with sarcastic. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:59, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Regarding pro stats, I always put them in a "Career Statistics" subsection after the information about their pro career (see: Brandon Marshall (linebacker as an example). ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 01:58, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I think having the stats within their respective sections (college and pro) is a better flow for the reader. Ideally, all info from their playing career should be in chronological order. If college stats are put at the end, it doesn't flow well because the reader has already moved on from the player's college career at that point. Of course, this is assuming anyone ever reads an entire article from top to bottom, which never happens. Lizard (talk) 02:02, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Yh, let's just keep them in their respective sections. And since we're all here, lol. Do you guys think we should include seasons in which the player didn't record any stats in the stats table. Examples: 1. college redshirts 2. pros being on the active roster or injured reserve without appearing in any games. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:28, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Sure, I guess. Lizard (talk) 02:32, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Ben Roethlisberger

I disagree that the table you deleted (detailing comeback victories) was unnecessary. However, I have not reverted your edits, because the page is too long and detailed already, even without the cumbersome and "unnecessary" table. However, check back in a few months because if if I get the chance to revise the Roethlisberger page (which is now on my to-do list) I may restore the table you removed which I kinda like. But maybe you have a point, so we'll see. Thanks, however, for removing the vulgar ad hominem attacks on the talk page. Christian Roess (talk) 09:51, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd nearly removed the whole "game-winning drives" section, since most of it is sourced to Pro Football Reference's custom query finder, which means it's all original research. Which is a chronic problem on NFL articles. Lizard (talk) 16:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

ok I gotcha, that makes sense.Christian Roess (talk) 03:53, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

The Village Stompers

Thanks for the good edit at The Village Stompers article. I see you're a drummer. Are you old enough to remember Washington Square in real time? I kinda doubt it, but I'm still askin'! Regards Tapered (talk) 20:59, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tapered: I really don't remember what drew me to that page. I must've clicked a link to it somewhere. But no, I'm much too young. I can't say I'm very familiar with the genre, which is probably sacrilege considering I live a few miles from New Orleans. My preferences are mostly classic rock. Lizard (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Trust me—within 3 years, anything that sounded like that was off the American mainstream airwaves for good. Louis Armstrong's "Hello Dolly" was the last gasp. Tapered (talk) 22:10, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Template for discussion

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 September 5. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 03:16, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Newton

Lol, is there an option to semi-protect articles for like a year. Not like anyone comes along and adds anything useful. The Newton article is pretty much complete, you know. So the rest is just vandalism and poor edits. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:29, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

It is now. Who's your favorite player? Mine is C.J. ANDERSON Lizard (talk) 05:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Forgot to turn caps lock off? Actually, I doubt it was an accident. You know how it is with these IPs lol. Do people even check the stuff they edit. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Linking the team more than once in the NFL infobox

Hi,

Is there some kind of consensus for this in the project? "But we do, because it looks weird otherwise" is not the reason to link the same team twice. That contradicts MOS:OVERLINK, which specifically states that the same article should not be linked more than once. – Sabbatino (talk) 19:26, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Not that I know of. WP:NFL has very few guidelines except for continuing what was always done. Linking all items listed in the infobox regardless of if they repeat seems to be the norm. I know at least one editor who works extensively on infoboxes that does it this way. Lizard (talk) 20:03, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Sabbatino, MOS:OVERLINK contains passages that suggest a link can be repeated multiple times in infoboxes, lists, and tables: "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, hatnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." and "Duplicate linking in lists is permissible if it significantly aids the reader. This is most often the case when the list is presenting information that could just as aptly be formatted in a table, and is expected to be parsed for particular bits of data, not read from top to bottom." Jweiss11 (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: Fair point. Although, I don't see how linking the same team twice in the infobox helps readers as it's the same team. I would understand this kind of linking if a player played for Washington Senators and Washington Senators or Winnipeg Jets and Winnipeg Jets, which are completely different teams. For example, basketball articles don't link the same team twice in player's or coach's career as seen here, here, here, here (all of them are NBA-related) or here and here. – Sabbatino (talk) 08:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm with Sabbatino. I'm not a fan of the same team being linked from a player twice in an info box. It's not like it takes them to a single season page that's different with each one. It's literally to the exact same page. It's clear that it's MOS:OVERLINK. As for the body, I go by this method: "If you can see he first link on the page, don't link it again. Once you can no longer see the first one on the screen, it's okay so they dont't have to scroll all the way back up to find it in the body of the article." ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 08:43, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Award

		The WikiProject NFL Award
		I, WikiOriginal-9 (talk), hereby award Lizard the Wizard the WikiProject NFL Award for his valued contributions to WikiProject NFL. Awarded 02:42, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

*Screams joyfully like a little girl* Lizard (talk) 02:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

lmao. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:47, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Steve Van Buren

Howdy. So in answer to your questions, here is what I was able to find (I can provide images with citations if you want them). In 1961 Van Buren was on the Philadelphia Eagles' PR staff, either as director or assistant director depending on the source. In '62 he was a scout for the Eagles. I added some of his post-CFL jobs to his page. The trail appears to go cold after 1970. As for the Hudson Valley Vikings, as far as I can tell they vanished when the NAFL failed in its first year. cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 20:01, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Question...

Question for ya... do you know why the NFL WikiProject has the season articles and history articles with wiki links in lead sentence (see here)? We should avoid that per WP:BOLDAVOID. I was going to the take it to the Project, but thought I'd ask someone within the project first. Thanks, Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:02, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: I've been slowly but surely been removing the links from the bold opening of season articles. I did it for all 2016 season articles and so far all Saints and Dolphins seasons, and I think most Giants season. It's a massive task that'll take weeks to fix manually. Lizard (talk) 02:26, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Could we possibly get a a bot to do it, or if you want WP:AWB? Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:35, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: Mayhaps. Seems doable. Not by me though lol. Lizard (talk) 02:44, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

lol... I'll think of something and let you know... we gotta find the right user to help us! Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:45, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

I've figured out who the culprit is.... they've been advised to not do this in the future. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:28, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: Bu Rob would normally be our best bet, but since he started school again he's been very limited. And I'd imagine his admin duties take precedence. I gave him a laundry list for AWB a few months ago that he hasn't gotten around to/forgot about. Which either way is totally understandable. Point is, we might wanna consult someone else. Lizard (talk) 07:07, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: Ya know, WP:BOLDAVOID also states "If the article's title does not lend itself to being used easily and naturally in the opening sentence, the wording should not be distorted in an effort to include it." Since the article title isn't actually a title, such as a proper name, it makes little sense to repeat and bolden it. It would probably be more natural to start the opening sentence with "The Cleveland Browns completed the 2016 NFL season with a record of 0–16..." That would take oodles of work though. Lizard (talk) 08:47, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

That could work, but I'm not sure what the NFL WikiProject will think. If others like it, it will be a lot of work. I don't have the time to help, and I'm not too entirely interested in the NFL articles. I'll favor it, but you have to convince the project! Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 13:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

@Corkythehornetfan: [4]. Lizard (talk) 22:31, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I've let him know not to do it! Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 22:56, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

That one actually violates BOLDAVOID and WP:REDUNDANCY. Lizard (talk) 23:00, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Oops! I was too concerned about BOLDAVOID I didn't even read the rest of the diff! lol It's been suggested he read redundancy, too. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 02:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Wait my mistake, it doesn't violate redundancy. Disregard that lol. If the opening sentence read something like "Gary Anderson's missed field goal in the 1998 NFC Championship Game was a play in which..." then it would. Lizard (talk) 02:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Joe Greene (American football) in popular culture

Hi. It looks like you're doing some major edits to Joe Green's page. Perhaps this is for a GA? I noticed that you removed most of the mentions of him in popular culture since they weren't sourced -- would it help to keep some of those if I could find some sources for them? Otherwise, I'm happy to help research other parts of this article. Cheers! - tucoxn\^talk 14:46, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

@Tucoxn: Do you mean my recent edit on Hey Kid, Catch? I always try to eliminate "popular culture" sections because I see them as magnets for unsourced trivia with little encyclopedic value. It's appropriate for the Hey Kid Catch article though, since its impact on popular culture is a large part of its notability, but I'm a stickler for references. As for the main Joe Greene article, I haven't decided yet if I wanna go for GA. At the moment I'd just like to get it to a respectable state, one that befits one of the most dominant and popular players ever. I'd been meaning to get to his article for a while now. It's part of a larger campaign that I've been invested in to improve articles of pro football hall of famers. I recently reworked John Henry Johnson, Pittsburgh's first great running back. He kinda got lost to time, but, before Franco Harris and Jerome Bettis, there was John Henry Johnson. Lizard (talk) 15:07, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

As for helping out, I'd gladly except some help. I'll let you know if there's anything specific. Or you can just pitch in whenever. Lizard (talk) 03:30, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Uh oh

[5]. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:47, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Another person misinterpreting WP:QUOTENAME. Oh well. He seems intent on his mission. Lizard (talk) 23:06, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Yh, I kind of just make this comment jokingly. I think I've seem you remove some of the nicknames before. It doesn't really matter that much to me. Anyway, that's how some things are on Wikipedia. Someone adds it, another removes it, someone else comes by later and adds it again, etc. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:32, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9: [6]. Lizard (talk) 16:04, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh well, lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 19:32, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Josh Brown

I noticed you changed his roster status to suspended. While most readers may not understand what it is, it is still the truth. A big example of why it doesn't matter if the reader can understand, look at a page for any medical condition, it's not worded in simplest terms. There is also a huge difference between being suspended and being on the commissioner's exempt list. For starters, when a player is suspended, they are not paid, they do get paid on commissioner's exempt list. Second, teams can suspend players, only the commissioner can put a player on the commissioners exempt list. Now what will help, since it is an unusual status that is rarely seen (Greg Hardy and Adrian Peterson were the last players on it), is linking it to a page about the list, if one does not exist, then we can create one. Otherwise, leave it as the truth.--Rockchalk717 00:10, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Namath edit

Good catch. Reads better. Thanks for the help cleaning the Namath page up. Pleased to contribute to your cause. 50.163.88.251 (talk) 20:54, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

No problem. Keep doing what you're doing. American football articles have been long neglected. Lizard (talk) 20:58, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

NFL in 2016

Hello. I'd appreciate some help. Illusion87 has been adding biased information in the articles about Stan Kroenke and National Football League controversies violating Wikipedia policies of WP:SOAPBOX, WP:UNDUE AND WP:NOR. It's becoming an annoying WP:EDITWAR and while some random users and IPs are working on maintaining WP:NPOV, this user is re-adding the useless content more than once and I'm starting to be afraid of using a WP:Noticeboard. I'd like to consult it with so kind of expert in the topic, but probably I'd have to use a WP:RFC. Thanks for your time. Leo Bonilla (talk) 10:33, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

@Leo Bonilla: I've put the pages on my watchlist. I'm not sure of the fine details of the Rams move, but it looks like it was met with harsh criticism and backlash that Kroenke took the brunt of. It might be worth mentioning this backlash a bit, as long as it's cited to high quality (NY Times, LA Times, WA Post, USA Today, etc) reliable sources. It probably wouldn't be worth its own section though. Other than that, I know nothing about his other ventures like Arsenal. Lizard (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

I think we can expand this conversation. That old concern was about a user adding content accusing the NFL of having a "liberal agenda" (a point of view totally ludicrous unless there's a mention of whitewashing), to the point that the user took a Fox News article as main source without providing WP:SECONDARY sources. But that concern made me think that probably it'd be good if in the article about NFL controversies Wikipedia adds a section about PR conflict, you know, facing domestic violence, cheerleaders' wage gap, controversial Super Bowl halftime shows, technically Deflategate would go there too, along with the anthem protests. We as wikipedians can't oppose users because they have liberal or conservative or left or right wing interest, always as they respect the 5 pillars and WP:NPOV. I thought about this as I was reading the last news about the last Super Bowl commercials and Martellus Bennett remarks, for example, and as a user who help in political articles I know anyone will add content about these things sooner or later. So it's better have this situation under control. PS: The part about the Rams relocation looks too long compared with other mentions of relocations. I think some parts belong to History of the NFL in Los Angeles. Leo Bonilla (talk) 05:30, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Re: stats tables

Hello and thanks for the feedback! I'm probably going to continue to list the superbowls and the MVPs in the tables as they're not hard to put in, they're nice to see when scrolling through the stats and aren't too obstructive/distracting. However, if you have some legitimate objection towards them, I could reconsider. Bigmoe797 02:26, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Bigmoe797: My best objections are that Super Bowls take place in the offseason, and therefore there's little correlation between Super Bowls and regular season stats. A player doesn't necessarily even have to play during the season (Peyton Manning). As for MVPs, you may have noticed that multiple organizations give out MVP awards. The AP award is the most well known today, but before the AP award and even into the 50s and 60s, multiple MVP awards were recognized as holding equal weight. You'd be hard pressed to find any two sources that agree on how many MVPs Y.A. Tittle won. It's for this reason that the NFL MVP award has never generated as much interest as the NBA or MLB MVP awards. Lizard (talk) 02:42, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: I can understand how superbowls may be slightly off topic for the player's stats, but I still don't see much harm in noting them. If I do still include it, I'll make sure the player had a significant part of that season (as I did with the Steve Young article, saying "Team won super bowl" since he won 2 without doing anything.) The MVP concern makes sense for earlier awardings but for recent MVPs, such as Cam Newton, I don't see why it'd be so contentious to note that. Would it be better to say AP NFL MVP instead? Bigmoe797 04:01, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Bigmoe797: Personally I'm a fan of keeping it simple, with minimal bells and whistles. But I admire the commitment, so I can deal with it. Yes, it would be better to say AP NFL MVP. Also you don't need to {{re}} people on their own talk page; they get a notification regardless. Lizard (talk) 04:18, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Bigmoe797: Actually, I'm still torn. We list every MVP award in the infobox regardless of selector. See Jim Brown. He won the AP MVP in '57, 58, and '65, but we have him listed as a 4× NFL MVP because he won the NEA MVP in '63. So if we only noted the AP award in the stats table it may confuse readers. The reason we group them as such in the infobox is because there's no cut and dried line as to when the AP award became the most recognized. At the moment, there are two: the PFWA award and the AP award, but they've each chosen the same MVP for the past 15 or so years, so there hasn't been a issue with more recent players. All hell will break loose the year they choose separate winners, I'm sure. Lizard (talk) 08:29, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Would it be best if I just removed the MVPs from people like Brown where it would be confusing? Plus there seems to be some confusion within AP itself anyway over Jim Brown's MVPs and if they actually named him first. And about keeping it simple; I'll try not to go overboard with the labels or anything. I wasn't trying to be difficult, I was just trying to make the the stats more informative and intuitive but obviously in cases like Brown, it may do the opposite.Bigmoe797 16:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Bigmoe797: Keep doing what you're doing for now, noting AP MVPs and offensive POYs and Super Bowls. If issues arise we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. As for the AP MVP conundrum with Brown, go with what Pro Football Reference says. Lizard (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

John Franco

I'll take it as given that you're right about the infobox. Previous editor gave no explanation for deletion. Tapered (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Y.A. Tittle

The article Y.A. Tittle you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Y.A. Tittle for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BlackJack -- BlackJack (talk) 14:21, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Steve Van Buren

The article Steve Van Buren you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Steve Van Buren for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Wizardman -- Wizardman (talk) 15:01, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Joe Perry (American football)

The article Joe Perry (American football) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Joe Perry (American football) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BlackJack -- BlackJack (talk) 12:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Photos of Lockport, LA?

Do you take pictures of places in Lafourche Parish? If so, this may be an important one in terms of local history:

There were two children murdered by their mother in Mathews in 2007. As a result their father funded playgrounds for the schools they attended: "Braxton's Buddies" at Lockport Lower Elementary and "Camille's Court" at Lockport Upper Elementary. Therefore if you decide one to day to photograph Lockport's sites (town hall, schools, post offices, etc.) it may mean a lot to the community to have these sites documented. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:32, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: I think I vaguely recall that case. Sadly, I don't get out much, and when I do I hardly ever take photos. It's been a while since I've even been to Lockport (although it is a short drive away). But I'll keep that in mind. I'd be more than happy to contribute any photos I take to Wikipedia, as I know first hand how much of a pain it can be acquiring usable ones. Lizard (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Bayou Boeuf Elementary in Kraemer is on the Register of Historic Places for its 112-year-old schoolhouse. That's definitely one thing I could probably get a photo of. Lizard (talk) 03:19, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

That would be a great idea! It also means it's eligible for its own Wikipedia article (several elementary schools in Philadelphia have their own articles since they're on the NRHP!) WhisperToMe (talk) 03:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I thought about asking if it was. I own a few books dedicated to the area's history so there'd definitely be info available on it. It's just out of my area of interest, ha. Too dedicated to football articles. Lizard (talk) 03:27, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Interestingly when I started South Plaquemines High School ‎ I found it was going to be heavily based on the football team as NYT writer Jere Longman did a series of articles about that school's fledgling post-Katrina team. Anyway if any of those history books are on Google Books it would be great (as anyone could see them and write about the school) WhisperToMe (talk) 04:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Bayou Boeuf Elementary School WhisperToMe (talk) 08:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Welp, you've forced my hand. I actually went to kindergarten in that little red schoolhouse. And so did my mom, and her mom, and her mom, and... About those books; they were written by a local freelance writer (who also happened to be my 3rd grade teacher at BBES) but they've definitely been published. I can't seem to find them at the moment though. They're not where I thought they were. But I do know that the school's first principal was Dennis Borne. Lizard (talk) 09:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Hehe :)

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find Borne on Google Books. If/when you do find those books, please let me know! It would also be a great idea to photograph/scan the pages you use (along with the title/copyright/table of contents/index) so other editors can find stuff easily if they encounter the same book!

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Headers

No, not as far as I know. Seems nonsensical to me. – PeeJay 23:16, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Hugh McElhenny

The article Hugh McElhenny you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Hugh McElhenny for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BlackJack -- BlackJack (talk) 13:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

If you want to write about high school football...

I found a possible good source while developing Arcadia High School (Louisiana): http://lafootballmagazine.com. This magazine may have info on how football teams of certain Louisiana high schools are doing. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:47, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Thanks, but I'd rather stay in the upper echelons. John Giannantonio was an exception of mine, because someone with such ridiculous stats at any level of competition not having an article here was a travesty. Might I suggest an article for Netcong High School? And perhaps Corbin High School in Corbin, Kentucky, where the Bird family (Calvin Bird, Rodger Bird) left their mark. Lizard (talk) 07:53, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Sure thing! I started both WhisperToMe (talk) 17:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Bob Rives and Bo McMillin had some great high school careers. Not sure about Shipwreck Kelly. Cake (talk) 14:49, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of John Henry Johnson

The article John Henry Johnson you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:John Henry Johnson for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BlackJack -- BlackJack (talk) 20:41, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Season article campaign

The formation of the Single season campaign began here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive 16. I mentioned a Navy list that was too long and posed a question. UW Dawgs, Cbl et al. took it and ran. (Don't use this to mean, I am taking credit for this. UW, and Cbl kick started the real thing. I kind of agreed, and kind of sided with Obi-Wan Kenobi on this). Anyway, use the force Luke-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject College football...you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:33, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

I meant to say I kind of agreed with y'all and kind of sided with DL.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 05:26, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Did you know?

... that defensive back Jim Cason started one game at quarterback for the 49ers in 1954 due to Y.A. Tittle having a broken left hand. However, Tittle, with a cast on his hand, relieved Cason in the fourth quarter and led the 49ers to victory. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 01:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I didn't. But I did know that Cason and Tittle were close friends at LSU and remained close until the day Cason died. Lizard (talk) 04:55, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Converting infobox gridiron football person to infobox NFL biography

We really need to figure out a way to update all those NFL player pages using infobox gridiron football person. Perhaps a semi-automated process. Lizard (talk) 02:04, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

If you give me the exact parameter to parameter changes, I can see what I can do in terms of writing a Lua module. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 02:09, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll do just that, gimme a sec. Lizard (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Give me about 3,600 secs. Lizard (talk) 02:36, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@BU Rob13: See my sandbox for an exhaustive parameter to parameter list. I'm 85% certain that it's 95% correct, with a ± 95% confidence interval (margin of error 0.05). Lizard (talk) 03:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I edited the list if you don't mind. You probably won't encounter AFL or ArenaFan much in converting but anyway. I haven't really seen "AFL" used. AFL goes to arenafootball.com but all of the links that that parameter was intended for have been dead for years I think. "afl" in the NFL infobox goes to arenafan.com. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:47, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Actually, new idea. Let's not convert, because this is going to be a freaking chore to move the numbered parameters to a bulleted list. Also, lots of the "NFL players" using this template were more prominent in the CFL. Not all, but a good many. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 03:53, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

You mean, just convert them manually, right? I'd hate to just leave the ones that shouldn't be using it. There's (or was) quite a few pro football hall famers still using it. Dave Robinson never played a snap of Mooseball. Lizard (talk) 03:57, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

They actually don't take that long to convert manually if you have the NFL parameters in another tab and just copy paste the correct ones over the incorrect ones. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Better than manual would be an AWB script. It would be error-prone and need editor review, but it could do most of the swapping. I'll take a look at that possibility. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

The real challenge would probably be locating them. Is there any way to search for transclusions of infobox gridiron football person on pages without a CFL category? Lizard (talk) 04:05, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

You could always ask the WP:Help Desk lol. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 04:09, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I might be able to help with that. Give me 15 minutes. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Here is a list of articles that have the template, are in an NFL team category, but aren't in a CFL team category. Shockingly large percentage of the transclusions of this infobox. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:54, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Ah yes George Halas, a true Canadian football great. Lizard (talk) 04:57, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Bill Hewitt -- Philadelphia Eagles

Hello, Lizard -- As we were having a little tangle about The Ohio State University, I came to see your page, and saw all the football you'd worked on. Being an Eagles' fan, I went over and read your article about Bill Hewitt, whom I hadn't heard of. Nice article . . . he played without a helmet! I bet he didn't "lead with his head" the way Mike Webster or some of the other guys who are getting so injured do. I just watched "Concussion" this weekend. Best, Bruiserid (talk) 11:08, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Hello Lizard the Wizard: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 22:26, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

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