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Chicken fried bacon photo(s)

Here are Flikr photos that are freely licensed: [1] - Apparently the actual real thing from Sodolak's [2]-this one is a nice close up of a homemade version. [3]

• Thanks to whoever adds a couple photos to the article and to the DYK hook (Feb. 9).

• And while you're add it hook the Sauerbruch Hutton article with more photos too. [4]ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Fountainhead and Rand being famous

Cliffnotes is not a reliable source. I'm not going to revert your edit for now, but it needs a better reference. I've also started a section on the article talk page. Idag (talk) 03:10, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

It is a source, a valid, verifiable source. It might not be the best, but it is adequate and I can't see any reason to remove it. If you look at the sales figures for Fountainhead, the writing of the screenplay for the movie that the book inspired, it becomes clear that this was the book that began her fame. --Steve (talk) 03:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note Idag. It doesn't seem very controversial that she first became famous for that book. I also corrected that it wasn't the first (I don't think) because We the Living was earlier. Right? I think the last sentence can be more specific about the size and nature of the criticism of her views. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

We the Living didn't make her famous though (that's why I'm not a big fan of the "famous" language, though its not particularly controversial). I agree that there needs to be more of a summary of the criticism (especially Whittaker's since that's the most famous criticism). Idag (talk) 14:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

re:Eaten alive

Hi, CoM. I don't know about this particular delicacy, but wouldn't doubt it. (Though I would like to see a citation anyway.) I've eaten Sannakji ("Living cuttlefish octopus"-- in my innocence, I thought it was "Mountain cuttlefish octopus" first time I heard of it-- San meaning both "alive" or "mountain") on more than one occasion. They bring it out alive & cut it up. The tentacles wrap around your chopsticks. They tell me you have to be careful to chew it up thoroughly, or the tentacles can cause trouble going down the throat. Advice I heeded. Not bad actually. There is a famous scene in the film Oldboy where the main character, after having been imprisoned mysteriously for years, wants to eat something "alive". He orders a whole squid, which he puts on his face and proceeds to eat-- no special effects used. :-) Also, once in Pusan (or maybe it was Chejudo?), my wife and I were on the beach where the Haenyo-- the Korean version of the Japanese Ama divers-- ply their trade. One would dive into the ocean, come up with a plate of squirming things, you'd pay 5,000 won or whatever, cut it up and eat it, still wriggling, with some Gochujang. I couldn't handle that-- I let my wife enjoy the feast. Anyway, the living-fish festival certainly seems plausable. Dekkappai (talk) 14:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Right. ~eo (or "o") is the suffix meaning "fish". Wait a minute-- did I say "sannakji" was cuttlefish. No, cuttlefish is ojingeo (note the suffix). Nakji is octopus. Dekkappai (talk) 18:22, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Image

A Cheeseburger in Paradise at Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville.

I tried to revert the image, I thought it would delete the one I uploaded, it just added another copy of yours to it...doh!--kelapstick (talk) 16:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

No worries. I could always re-upload it. I can't see any difference really. I was just curious about the file size. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

While I am on my image uploading frenzy, I thouguht you would like this.--kelapstick (talk) 17:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Was it cheesy? :) Which location? I didn't even know they had a chain. I'm partial to Tony Roma's onion ring blocks... But pulled pork is the way to go. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

They are all pretty common in warm places I suppose, this one was in Vegas (we went for our son's first birthday). The burger was alright but the Land Shark was great...--kelapstick (talk) 17:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

New articles

I busted out articles on:

• Pann's (where the diner scene in Pulp Fiction was filmed)
• Armet & Davis (known for its Googie architecture)
• Holiday Bowl (building) Armet & Davis designed historic Googie architecural location opened by members of the Nikkei community.
• JFC International Asian (mostly Japanese) food wholesaler and distributor

If anyone wants to fix them up, add to them, correct them, hook them, or add photos. If not no worries, but I figured they might interest someone. I didn't even know there was such a thing as Googie architecture. It makes Dutch architecture seem awfully primitive in comparison... ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Notability of Versailles Cuban restaurant

A tag has been placed on Versailles Cuban restaurant requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Eeekster (talk) 05:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Bezgovo cvrtje

Kaiserschmarrn with mountain cranberry sauce

So this dish Bezgovo cvrtje, is a Slovenian national dish! Good job indeed. And they are made with elder berries, fried wrapped in dough, served with cranberry compote. Sounds a bit like a type of Kaiserschmarrn. Unfortunately they closed the discussion some half an hour before you left me the message from Katja. Our Danish friend, Power.corrupts‎; feels that it is the principle is all about, and will try to make an other move.

Anyway, it looks like that if the new try fails, there is plenty of sources to create at least an article about Elderberry dishes, elderberry flower fritters, fried elderberry berries, jams, juices and other nice things.

Warrington (talk) 11:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

New member of the family

Because of my jealousy of Mies, Dr., I've chosen to adopt. See [5]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 08:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Where is the overly large welcome message I have come to admire/expect from you?--kelapstick (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Rand

Re: your recent redundancy change from "the" novels to "two" novels. Your change constricts her accomplishment. What about Anthem and We the Living? Granted, they were not initially best sellers but due to her fame they evolved into best-sellers. I would suggest a return to "the" which doesnt limit her output and is not as restrictive as "two". Just a thought.--Buster7 (talk) 11:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The novels are mentioned twice in the intro. That's what I was trying to address. If it needs to be in the lead of the intro then perhaps saying she wrote bestselling novels would be sufficient (as its reiterated specifically in the second or third paragraph. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

You email reply from Katja - Bezgovo cvrtje

Hi, thanks for your help, I did not know you were involved. Next time, pass that info per e-mail. I have already written Katja for info. thanks Power.corrupts (talk) 12:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Dont worry. The procedure is: go to the user page, left pane, under toolbox, the is an option "E-mail this user" if that user has allowed e-mail to be sent from other users. If you send me an email, I can see your email address, but you cant see mine, unless I reply to you by email.

But that will not work with me, because I don't have any e-mail listed...

File:TAQUITO CHIHUAHUA.jpg Your faitfull friend Warrington (talk) 22:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

How cute! Taquito es muy muy guapo!. Que bueno. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Si :)))))))

Warrington (talk) 10:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello ChildofMidnight. I would like to thank you for the best wishes you posted on my talk page. Felling a bit sick at the moment but I'm sure I'll be firing on all cylinders in no time. Thanks again for your best wishes. Titch Tucker (talk) 13:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Kick ass Titch. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the Krumkake photos

Thanks for your help with the photos on the Krumkake page. The page layout looks much better now.

BTW - if you're ever in Milwaukee and happen to be looking for a bacon-friendly bar/restaurant, try Comet Cafe on Farwell Street. On Sundays they offer complementary baskets of bacon with drink orders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koppas (talk • contribs) 20:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC) Milwaukee's Best. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Nutty Nuggets

This might fall into your area of expertise, not exactly gourmet...but...--kelapstick (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to move it to Ralcorp, currently a redirect to Nestle, which I don't understand. Ralcorp is notable and the information on nuggets can be included there. Bacon nuggets? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I am actually working on chocolate covered bacon here, but I am at the end of my rope today if you want to add to it. A picture would be good too if we can find it. Long live the Bacon Cabal...--kelapstick (talk) 22:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm laughing. You need help. Did you take a bad snowbagging fall? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, I saw it on Dinner: Impossible it looked AWESOME, anyway you had the wrong WP:CSD tag up, should have been Template:db-g6, making way for an uncontroversial move.--kelapstick (talk) 22:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Besides look at all the press it has, selling out in London in 48 hours!--kelapstick (talk) 22:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I saw you fixed my CSD tag. Gracias. Keeping the nutty nuggets a part of Wikipedia will be one of my great accomplishments up there with the snickers salad article and helping to save the list of Star Wars languages article... ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Assassin14 → Some required reading--kelapstick (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• <smile>

Valencia Tool & Die

We have the opportunity here to show a new editor that Wiki is not a roadway constructed of razor blades and barbed wire. He was never "welcomed" and his very first wiki experiences were quite negative for any newcomer. His reactions, while not condoned, are understandable. I am impressed that he dove right in and began to give something to wiki. User:THF has already made great strides. Maybe he should be allowed to finish? Heck... the article can always be returned to AfD if it is not improved, but I have faith in THF's ability. He simply needs time for a deeper search of archives. Yes? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

After reading the AfD I only have one question...Is the hot dog stand in Sydney, New South Wales or Sydney, Nova Scotia?--kelapstick (talk) 23:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

And do they take reservations? I'm having a ham(the good kind) sandwich in Kelapstick's honor. Of course in some culture's the pig is considered unclean, rendering me a filthy infidel. Shows what they know! I'll try to be nicer MQS, but it will be hard. And you never answered my question about what heroic figure you're most like in a thread somewhere above or perhaps recently archived... ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Sources for future expansion

CoM: Send me an e-mail so I can send you a few more articles about Chicken fried bacon that I'd been hanging onto since September. - Dravecky (talk) 23:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Kelapstick will you contact Dravecky and get this critical information? I don't trust Wiki-mail, or whatever it is, but I'm willing to sacrifice yours to the cause. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Chicken fried bacon is your baby CoM, I don't touch bacon unless it is layered in chocolate.--kelapstick (talk) 00:59, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't do it bro. I don't trust Jimbo's wizards behind the curtain. Who knows what information sending an e-mail to Dravecky might transmit. As long as I don't do any kind of interpersonal messaging and wear this tinfoil hat I should be safe. I've seen Heros and Bourne Identity so I know how they can trace stuff and show up at my door. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

A wet towel around your head can make it hard for them to pinpoint the signal, too. Bongomatic 01:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

That's an urban legend. But turning on the microwave works. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Nah-uh! I have it in writing! Bongomatic 02:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Adoption

thanks can you tell me how to create and archive. User:Johnlumgair

Done (I think). ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

PHOTOS

Maybe someone watching this wants to add a couple of these photos [6] freely licensed off flikr to the mecanoo article? It's some kind of Dutch architectural firm, so Drmies will thank you.

And I just now read they are going bust... But they did win some kind of award [7]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

And far more important photos from here [8] for my new Sauerbruch Hutton article. Kelapstick is working on a DYK hook and the edits to bring it up to FA status as I type this!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

This one is done. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Bacon fried bacon

User:Kelapstick/Sandbox3 is the current resting place for chocolate covered bacon.--kelapstick (talk) 16:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Some potential sources for pictures here here and here.--kelapstick (talk) 16:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

None of those versions allow commercial use, so I can't upload them. Do you want to ask the authors to change the licensing? The first one is particularly good I think, although the grotesque qualities of the second photo are also endearing. By the way this section has a very misleading thread title. I got excited about the dish... Bacon batter? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I am not familiar with what you need to upload from flicker, I just noticed they weren't all rights reserved. I will see what the authors say.--kelapstick (talk) 19:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

When you do the advanced search you have to click available for commercial use. They have to have CC (creative commons) licensing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Chocolate covered bacon has been moved to the mainspace, however it is still too short for a DYK, only +1200 characters, and needs to be 1500. I'll have to see if there is more content to add.--kelapstick (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The hook

Chocolate covered bacon

• ... that chocolate covered bacon (pictured) is sold as "Pig Lickers" at the Minnesota State Fair, "Pig Candy" in New York City and "Mo's Bacon Bar" in Chicago? — New article by kelapstick (talk), ChildofMidnight (talk). Self nom at 23:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that chocolate covered bacon (pictured) has been described as "greatest thing since deep-fried Pepsi"? kelapstick (talk) 23:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Why not combine?

• ... that chocolate covered bacon (pictured) is sold as "Pig Lickers" at the Minnesota State Fair, "Pig Candy" in New York City, "Mo's Bacon Bar" in Chicago, and was described as the "greatest thing since deep-fried Pepsi" by a journalist from Florida?

ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Because it is more than 200 characters. But I like the idea, how about

• ... that chocolate covered bacon (pictured) is sold as "Pig Lickers", "Pig Candy", "Mo's Bacon Bar", and has been described as the "greatest thing since deep-fried Pepsi"?--kelapstick (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

No good, the geographical diversity was important. How do you calculate article and hook character counts? One, two, three...? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I copy it over to microsoft word and do a word count, it tells you the number of characters, the article has to be at least 1500 (spaces included but not including infoboxes and titles) and the hook no more than 200. We may be able to get something worked in to make it a double article DYK if Florida State Fair gets up to 1500:

• ... that chocolate covered bacon (pictured) served at the Florida State Fair was described as the "greatest thing since deep-fried Pepsi" by a journalist from Florida?

Stay focused. Florida State Fair will have its own DYK hook. Now then, how many characters was teh combined hook? It's maybe a bit long anyway, so your original version works. It's pretty great. Since deep fried pepsi isn't an article I'm okay with leaving it out. How many characters was that hook? Did you cound "(pictured)"?ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The first is 159, your's was 248, even without the journalist it was 217, you have to include "pictured". You don't want to go for the multiple article DYK, I thought that would be great, you could go for the coveted triple if you start the deep fried pepsi one today, which scares my by the way, I might have to try making this weekend.--kelapstick (talk) 23:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Your original and the alt are fine. Why is it called deep fried Pepsi and not coke? Does Shasta work?ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:54, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Attention bacon cabal

Someone added a notation to the bacon article stating, "DO NOT FRY BACON WITH YOUR SHIRT OFF!" [9]. This seems like very good advice and I think it's something we should all keep in mind. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• support - I actually did that when I was a kid, it is sound advice. Lots of little driplets that fly into your chest.--kelapstick (talk) 19:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Did the hair grow back? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I just realized you said you were a kid. So I guess hair wasn't an issue? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

As a side note, I'm wondering if this anon is showing signs of a desire for cabal membership [10]? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixies

Thank you, I am on my first pass now. On the next pass through the USMC bios I am going to add in the persdata and more infoboxes so if you watch the USMC bio articles you will see a lot more edits made over the next week or so.--Kumioko (talk) 20:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

random...

...and I only pressed it once to come up with this: Lake of No Return. Feel free to help out! (Cause you structure articles pretty well.) Drmies (talk) 22:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

A new record?

Wow that has to be a new record, created, nominated for speedy deletion, a hang on, speedy removed, put up for AfD, and AfD closed in a matter of 17 minutes...--kelapstick (talk) 22:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Anything to keep peeps busy! :) Of course the article's main purpose is as a link to another more vital subject... ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I was actually surprised when there was not an article about it.--kelapstick (talk) 22:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Me too. So I threw one up. Is it weird to say "threw one up"? I added some context. Check out my phrasing. Fairly awesome I'd say. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

K-schtick, I hope you don't find it rude that I haven't been categorizing after you were kind enough to provide a how-to explanation. I've actually been meaning to copy it over from MQS's page until I get a chance to give it a try. I have improved my photo capture skills. So far so good. Although I'm expecting a mass of Image for deletion notifications any day now... ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

To quote a Tim Hortons commercial, a cornucopia of awesomeness. "The fair features chocolate covered bacon, but they have rides and competitions and other things I guess too, but the bacon is the most important", I don't mind categorizing, sometimes I have to search for the categories though....--kelapstick (talk) 22:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I predict next year's fair offers chicken fried bacon, the bacon explosion, and possibly bacon fried bacon, after you develop the recipe. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:59, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Did you notice the Cracker Country connection? I thought Cracker Country was where Drmies resides, no??? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually I think that is where I am. Do you watch Law & Order, this week they made reference to a coal cracker, as someone from coal country in Pennsylvania--kelapstick (talk) 23:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I missed that reference. Cracker Country? Well, my neighborhood, yes--we still segregate here, even if mainly self-imposed. Hey, that bacon, you can't just melt chocolate and dip it in, right? What is used here, a ganache? Drmies (talk) 03:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Stick candy

I notice that you too have tried to inject some sense of reason to the Stick candy article. I've read through some pretty silly debates here, but surely this one has to be a candidate for WP:LAME. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. I admire your efforts though, and they can't say they didn't get some good advise from uninvolved parties. Oh well, I guess we need these light-hearted moments sometimes to break up the every-day editing huh? <smiles and cheers> — Ched (talk) 06:02, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

WOW - don't know much more to add than that. (well, I did go on a bit as an "re:" on my talk page). But I guess after you've been here a while you get to see just about anything. ;) — Ched (talk) 07:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

NASA Services/Centers pages

C.O.M. - Thanks for following up with the NASA pages I've been adding. Did you see Bilateration Ranging and Transponder System? It might benefit from your input/comments. Thanks... Geĸrίtzl (talk) 01:19, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I hadn't seen that one, but I was impressed that you followed through so rapidly in adding the redlinked articles. I will try to take a look when I'm done at (with) the Florida State Fair. User:Drmies is pretty spaced out, so hopefully he will help also. How is work on our rocket based space program coming? Are they still phasing out the space shuttle? As I understand it, Obama is a friend to the exopolitics community, but I'm not sure about spending for NASA. Did I hear something about it in regard to the spending bill? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I hope you saw the news references I added to the talk page of Florida State Fair for your incorporation. I'll also create the {{cite}} templates for your ease of use. Bongomatic 01:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they are phasing out the shuttle, but pretty much predicting another catastrophe before it is finally phased out. Obama was more or less against Project Constellation a year ago, then visited Florida and changed his mind. Hoping for the best. Geĸrίtzl (talk) 21:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Tina Turner

Regarding this reversion: In general, it is really discouraged to include "*** Award-winning" whatever in the lead sentence. Meanwhile, the 8 Grammy awards are already mentioned in the lead. I'd like to know what concert information you are referring to in that reversion, why it would be preferable to remove no longer available references replaced by current ones, return citations to fanpages, undo combining of identical references, and return of some references that were duplicates for the same fact. The portion of the article which was added without references was removed at one point because this is a good article and it really isn't productive to a good or featured article to stick a large portion of unreferenced material into it. The article has undergone a GA review because of the haphazard addition of too many either uncited, poorly or unreliably sourced content and has finally come back into compliance with the requirements. And how is a phrase cited to the White House, which is no longer available, which said "as well as for her long, well-proportioned legs that are considered the most famous in show business" superior? Did you even look at what you reverted?? Editors have tried to contain the fanpage and non-neutral fluffery which well-meaning but misguided fans had added to the page over the past two or three years. And finally, the improvement tags were removed because the issues which led me to place it there had been resolved. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:01, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. If you check you'll see I had already reverted my edit before you posted this message. But I still have several concerns. 1) The Grammy is the highest honor for musicians, so her winning 8 ***EIGHT*** can reasonably be justified and included in the lead sentence. 2) Removing information that was cited because you don't like it doesn't seem reasonable. Whether you think her legs are noteworthy is irrelevant. 3) The concert information I'm talking about was the content and citations explaining the numbers turning out for her various tours, including 4 million for one that you referred to as "15 year old tour information" in your edit summary. I'm sure you're aware that important achievments don't grow less relevant or expire over time?

Your last couple sentences of explanation are at the core of my concern: your efforts to eliminate and diminish what you consider "fluffery" (like winning 8 grammy's and having legendary and notable legs) is hurting the quality of the article. Maybe you would have more success working on the articles of artists for whom you have an interest and an appreciation. ChildofMidnight (talk) 09:12, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

"Maybe you would have more success working on the articles of artists for whom you have an interest and an appreciation." This statement shows very bad faith and is not in anyway relevant to the concerns I've expressed nor do you have the vaguest idea of my "interest and appreciation" of Turner's music. You don't seem to grasp the difference between removing what really is fluff from leaving the extensive details to the body of the article and leaving a very brief condensation. I've spearheaded an effort to bring this article from being demoted to a B-class article back to GA status. My efforts have most decidedly not diminished the quality of the article. Perhaps you should check the shape of the article, based on GA criteria, as it was in late October 2008. Give it a rest. As I said, you have not even read what you are reverting.

To begin these are the actual changes in text that were made in the revision I made:

1. Tina Turner (born Anna Mae Bullock, November 26, 1939) is an eight time Grammy Award American singer. an American singer and actress. (As I stated above, it is discouraged, and in fact, will be challenged in good article and featured article reviews to have a lead sentence using wording like "*** Award-winning". It isn't used in featured articles for an Academy Award winner, nor will it be accepted for a musician/singer. This is basic criteria, and most GA/FA reviewers consider it POV. The mention of her Grammies has not been removed from the lead of the article, just the lead sentence. Each time you return it to the lead sentence, it is then being repeated in the lead.

2. She is known worldwide for her energetic stage presence, powerful vocals, ground-breaking concerts, as well as for her long, well-proportioned legs that are considered the most famous in show business. career longevity, and widespread appeal. (One of the citations used to support the last portion of the original statement was from a fanclub site - those are not allowable as reliable sources. The legs description is supported by a dead reference that had no real basis in addressing the fame of a singer's legs, and is not encyclopedic. Again, both issues that are challenged in a GA/FA review. Meanwhile, a lead section is supposed to reflect the rest of the article - her legs are not mentioned at any other point in the article, so it does not support inclusion in the lead. Only one citation, no longer available, supported that in the entire article. That it was removed was based on the unsupported claim of worldwide fame with what would have to be your own interpretation of a source no longer available by saying her legs "were noted specifically as she was honored by President George W. Bush." You cannot know if that was what it said, or whether it was part of a supplied press release or someone else's interpretation. That's because the claim cannot be verified anymore. You can't say it was part of his honor, because you cannot check it. The citations I included for the two portions I included in the sentence are actually supported by reliable sources.)

3. Turner's world tour Break Every Rule Tour had record breaking ticket sales and was attended by over four million fans. Turner also beat out The Rolling Stones by touring Europe during her sold out Foreign Affair Tour in 1990 and playing to four million people in just six months. Her 1996 Wildest Dreams Tour was performed to 3.5 million fans. In the year 2000 she launched her Twenty Four Seven Tour that packed stadiums all over the world, it was the highest grossing tour of the year, and is the 5th biggest grossing tour in America ever.

This section was struck because it is not sourced in the lead. The concerts are covered, with all of these facts, in the body of the article, and meanwhile, the basics of this are covered more generally in the preceeding paragraph.

What's more disturbing is the fact that you have totally disregarded the fact that I stated to you that the citations that were updated or removed were because they were not reliable, duplicated at least once at the end of one sentence. The actual citations were updated where necessary, removed from statements which weren't supported by the cites stuck in, and a couple were removed because they were essentially from the same press release from sites mirroring the original. Appropriate citations were combined. By hitting "revert", you remove all these updates and corrections to incorrect citations. You have not worked on the extensive clean-up over the last few months that led to the GA status being challenged. Please do not revert this again, you are reverting to a version which represents placing a GA status in jeopardy based on the erroneous placement of citations, use of non-reliable sources and unsupported content. Personally, I don't care if you have some personal objection to me, but to place a GA in jeopardy over an unsourced paragraph and a phrase in two sentences is a good example of pointy editing. READ what you are doing, in the interest of the status of the article, not simply because I left you a note that pissed you off.

At this juncture, it would be more productive to raise your objections on the article talk page and then I can submit a request for comment on the issues I raised here that you have rejected as relevant. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Wildhartlivie, can you explain why you think that announcing objective reasons to consider the subject of an article notable is other than neutral in point of view? Look at first sentence of the second 'graf of The Beatles (a good article)—before the table of contents—where it says "The Beatles are one of the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed bands in the history of popular music, selling over one billion records internationally." Does that fail WP:NPOV since it's in the opening rather than in a section called "commercial and critical reception"? I'm not saying you're wrong (I don't think I'd know a good article if I wrote one by mistake), but clearly a lede (if we're supposed to be journalists here, why can't we spell like them?) including the fact or number of awards does not run afoul of WP:NPOV, so it would be helpful if you could help the ignorant masses connect the dots to other policies, guidelines, or even well-documented consensuses rather than simply saying that you're right. Bongomatic 10:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd be glad to respond to your questions if you'd please move it to Talk:Tina Turner, where I moved my general discussion of this. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:05, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'm pretty uninterested in the Tina Turner article. I'm interested in understanding (I'm not being facetious here—I don't susggest your summary of the way WP:GA editors view things is inaccurate) the heightened POV strictures you've suggested exist for good articles. You said that focusing on awards in the lede would be frowned upon for good a article candidate, and I'd like to understand why (as it obviously doesn't run afoul of the normal POV policy). If it's really limited to the Turner article, and it doesn't illustrate some larger point, then I don't really care. I certainly don't care about the outcome of the lede of that article.

And if by way of explanation you note that "award-winning" is specifically mentioned in WP:PEACOCK, please also explain how to edit consistently with "Peacock terms can be avoided when dealing with the third longest river in Rhode Island, but when it comes to the Amazon River, Wikipedia readers should be told just how big it really is. When a person or event is in fact important, the reader must be told that—tell them how important and why." The awards Tina Turner won aren't the listener's choice award for WOOF. Bongomatic 11:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say that focusing on awards in the lead of the article was frowned upon in a good article candidate. I said that putting awards in the lead sentence was. As an example, saying: "Kate Winslet is a BAFTA-, Screen Actors Guild-, Golden Globe-winning and Academy Award-nominated English actress. She did this, she did that..." Rather than saying "Kate Winslet is an English actress. She did this, she did that... She has won 2 BAFTA Awards, five Screen Actors Guild and a Golden Globe Award for her work and has been nominated six times for the Academy Award." (Don't take my word for the correct numbers of awards in either of those examples, I just wrote up a differential as example.) Offhand, I'm not sure where to find the featured and good article in-depth criteria, but I can state quite clearly from having gone through the process on both levels in the past year, as well as having followed specific articles through the process that at this time, the trend is to try and steer away from having the awards in the lead sentence. One of the reasons given is that to select some specific awards to include in the opening sentence this way is to give more weight to some awards than others and another is that it frequently skews the focus of the article on to the awards themselves and less so on the body of work.

The usage of terms is mostly what determines whether something is peacockery or not. To further with the examples you gave from the peacock page:

"Once more, Swank will be co-starring in Clint Eastwood's next film, I'm Getting Too Old for This, with award-winning actor Sean Penn." vs. "Swank will again co-star with Sean Penn in the Clint Eastwood film, I'm Getting Too Old for This with Sean Penn, who won the Academy Award for Best Actor for his previous film with Eastwood, Mystic River. (Although I'm not entirely sure that the Academy Award example wouldn't be considered extraneous to an article about Hilary Swank.)

"The Mississippi - Missouri river system is the fourth longest river in the world. It supplies blah, blah" vs. "At 6,275 miles long, the Mississippi - Missouri river system is the longest in the United States and the fourth longest river system in the world. It supplies blah, blah"

The goal is to describe something accurately and precisely, not generally and ambiguously. Hopefully that answers your question. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:44, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I find your position that content can be removed as soon as the internet links go dead disturbing. Here's a link to her being honored by the president [11]. Here are all the sources providing the quote that supports the content you are removing [12] "because it's from a fan site". As you can see it made big news and reflects an important detail about Tina Turner and her success. I suggest you familiarize yourself with Google New search.

Part of Wikipedia is dealing with people who would rather remove good content than find the citations to support it. Some editors cut out valuable information, take quotes out of links, remove links, remove content when links go dead. Dealing with these actions is an utter waste of time. These editors fail to recognize that when they take out content because they don't like it they are excercising their personal POV on what should and shouldn't be included instead of respecting the sources. This leads to misleading and dry articles that don't capture or describe achievements accurately. Including Turner's 8 gramy awards in or near the elad sentence makes perfect sense. That award is the highest honor in music. Just because there is no longer a link to the press release doesn't mean it ceased to exist. The accolades and recognition for Tina Turner's legs are well established and here's an internet link to some results in case you want to read up on them [13]. I hope you'll spend some time improving citations and respecting the opinions of others instead of insiting on your way and going on the offensive againt good faith editors. After you posted here I read what you cut out, and you are mistaken. I hope you'll see that and correct your errors. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

"People like me" actually write and get passed featured and good articles and do so by actually following policy and guidelines that are written for specific reasons. We don't need to be lectured by editors who have recently arrived on how to search for references. We also learn to write articles without POV. Your disdain for that is now documented with your statements here and on Talk:Tina Turner. I hope you'll spend time learning policy and reliable sourcing guidelines and stop turning efforts at reinstituting GAs that have declined into fanpages. By the way, there is never a case where a citation to a fanpage is acceptable unless the content happens to be about the fanpage, which you'll never find on a GA or FA. But hey, you got that legs notation in there, didn't you, although you didn't bother to use the actually accessible sources you noted above and returned the dead link to the White House site and the fanpage cite. That was very important. There's nothing else to discuss on this page, the discussion is on the article talk page. Thanks for your lecture. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:26, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

What's cooking

Things are always much more complicated than they appear. Why not? Maybe because there is no oil there. Warrington (talk) 10:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

My dearest Warrington, if you are referring to Myanmar, you should know the country is renowned for its valuable natural resources. These include fossil fuels (I believe a lot of natural gas is there if I'm not mistaken), timber and gemstones, some of which are being exploited with the well documented use of slave labor. China and Thailand prosper handsomely from their dealings with the corrupt authoritarian military regime. G Dub was aggresive in putting pressure on the regime, but with Europe and the UN led by weaklings, its difficult to get much done. Cheerio. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:35, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

and ... you bacon maniac, look at Szalonna

Warrington (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Warning messages on your talk page

Hello again Child, first of all, you don't have email enabled. I suggest you do.

I noticed the warning message on your talk page, I received one just like it a few weeks ago, it seems like there are some WP:OWN issues on the page there is an edit war about, like Comparison_of_wiki_farms which I suggest you look at. Ikip (talk) 18:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

What is a wiki farm? I'm always getting in trouble it seems. The only thing keeping me going is my animosity for a certain Dutchman who will have to be crushed at all costs! —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChildofMidnight (talk • contribs)

A wiki farm is a website where anyone can create their own wiki. Wikia is a wiki farm. Ikip (talk) 03:22, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought it had something to do with fertilizer... The other day I was reflecting about all the great articles and information that gets created here. It's pretty awesome and amazing. Just as examples, there are now articles on snickers salad, the bacon explosion, glorified rice, and lifeguard towers. I am happy to be a part of this effort to educate the world on these important subjects, and I think the frustrations and impudence shown by those who don't do what I want them to is a small price to play.

All templates should have warning signs in them removed. People can read. Have fun Ikip and don't take it all to seriously! ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey now!

You really thought I'd let you get away with this??? Haha, OK, you will get away with it, and I'll even chime in. ;) BTW, no chocolate covered bacon today--we're out of bacon! And I need some cream too, since I think a ganache is preferable. The article is looking better and better--you the Child, ManofMidnight. Drmies (talk) 19:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Mies, Dr., why is Kees Christiaanse a red-link on the Netherlandian Wikipedia? Are you even Dutch? And what is this "pharmacies(?)" translation stuff?

I hung out with an Alabamian today. He went to Auburn though, and he was saying that he always roots against the University of Alabama, and that even if they win he hopes their plane crashes. He might have been joking. I didn't ask him about Jerraud Powers.

He works as an extra in movies and was telling me stories about hanging out with "Jimmy" (James) Woods and Clint Eastwood. We were talking about Kentucky and he mentioned something about Tubby Smith being "black and a Yankee." Of course I always assume good faith so I'm thinking those are revered qualities down in your neck of the woods...???

I had a prosciutto, fresh mozerella, pesto and field greens sandwich with pasta salad. Then I had a pear and mango spinach salad with shaved parmesan and feta. Then I had a giant burrito, and shrimp and scallop linguini alfredo. So it's been a great day.ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Dang, boy, need some Alka Seltzer? sounds delicious... All I got was some pasta and sausage, and some strawberry ice cream I made (the strawberries were on sale; we bought six quarts). You can a. tell your Auburn friend that we're much nicer (I usually root for Auburn, unless during the Iron Bowl) and b. ask him how he failed his veterinary exams. As for Dutch WP, well, let them figure it out. West 8 has been given a two-week reprieve, but there seem to be a few there who are willing to actually work on the article rather than just delete information ([14]) or nominate it for deletion. Pfff. Drmies (talk) 06:19, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

my boobies

Hey, did you see what's been happening at my user page? Two blocks were the result... Drmies (talk) 06:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of...

...AfD, have a look at Flandreau Cemetery when you have a moment. It's nominated, for some decent reasons perhaps. I don't know if cemeteries are inherently notable. I did some work on the article, but didn't yet get around to checking the individuals buried there for notability (none have articles on WP, I think). Do you have any ideas for upping the value of the article? You're always good at writing leads and stuff (and tell Bongo that "lede" is simply an alternative spelling for "lede"!) and I've tried to do the kind of thing that you might do in the first paragraph--but not so well, of course. Your help, as always, is appreciated. And now it's bedtime here! Drmies (talk) 06:23, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Bongo knows that "lede" is an alternate spelling for both "lede" (although not very alternate in that case) and "lead". But it's easier to parse as it cannot be mistaken other uses / pronunciations. Encyclopedias (encyclopediae?) are not newspapers, but I've never met a journalist who didn't use the vernacular spelling—have either of you? Bongomatic 06:35, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Haha Bongo, I don't think I've ever met a journalist! You're right re: parsing, of course, but the spelling kind of rubs me the wrong way, since I'm a very, very old-fashioned kind of person, and there is an Old English "lede"--"people," "nation." I had to look it up the first time I saw "lede," which was right here, on WP, and I thought it was a misspelling. Later, Drmies (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

• Re Flandreau: I really, really appreciate your help here, all the more since you probably know as well as I do that it's a lost cause...and if it's not, that's due in no small part to you, my friend. Drmies (talk) 01:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camberwell Baptist Church

I feel like I'm repeating myself constantly, but please read Wikipedia:Deletion guidelines for administrators. In short; I took it upon myself to try and save the article, but was able to find no more sources that allowed the article to meet GNG; as such, it is presumed non-notable in the absence of any other evidence. AfD is not a vote, it's based on the strength of arguments, and the keep votes even those based on the sources, were weak. As for a possible merge, the oft-cited WP:PRESERVE mentions nothing about preserving non-notable content in the case of deletion; articles about cities and towns I've browsed to not appear to single out churches in their own prose. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 13:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, clearly, my deep-rooted hatred of Baptists is what influenced my decision... </sarcasm> The article fails GNG; no good arguments are put forth that it can meet it or an SNG; article is deleted. Don't go lecturing me about policies when you don't understand some basic ones, such as WP:AGF. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 22:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Please point out where I didn't assume good faith? I simply pointed out that as the closing administrator you are supposed to weigh the arguments, not impose a conclusion based on your personal research. That you failed to follow policy is not a failure on my part to assume good faith. I think you are confused about several policies and would be well served by reviewing them carefully. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Butting in: You are aware of WP:DRV, right, WP:CoM? I know nothing about the AfD in question (trying to keep out of that tar pit), but if you feel the closing was not kosher, you might consider bringing it up at DRV. Regards. Dekkappai (talk) 22:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Dekka. A good suggestion, and I had just done so. Having checked out a few of the reviews in the past, my impression is that it's difficult to overturn closures even when they are not based on policy (I think there is generally a reluctance to overrule fellow admins). So I think it's important to get good closures in the first place. My hope is that this administrator will consider and abide by the guidlines in the future so this situation isn't repeated. I've mostly been working in article space rather than spending a lot of time in the AfD discussions, but the deletion of content on notable subjects that simply needs improvement and better citations, and the deletion of content that should be merged, as in this case, does a lot of damage to the encyclopedia. It's a time consuming struggle to stay on top of all the deletions, and that time would be more usefully spent improving articles. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

I thought (and thinking are mental forms and processes) that Wikipedia was for biting of each others head... Like Deviled eggs  ;)

Warrington (talk) 23:30, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I fear you may have spent too much time around Scapler...

Are you sure the photo with washed out colors in that long named German artchitect's article is better than the shady one I replaced it with? I think my layout was much better, and although the photo wasn't perfect, it's clearer and you can still see the colors. Perhaps I'll have to hunt up a superior photo to satisfy your fanaticism. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

He was using those colours himself, I can't help it. I have seen the original houses.

Some do, like Luis Barragán for ex, http://www.designmuseum.org/__entry/3825?style=design_image_popup, see here

go to bed

Warrington (talk) 23:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I think you may have a cheap monitor or bad eyes. Those colors look retched.

It's a little early for bed, but after I finish eating I might take a nap. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

And what were you eating?

Warrington (talk) 07:09, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Flandreau Cemetery

I was doing New Page Patrol, and noticed that you created an article about Flandreau Cemetery. Although you evidently intended to put it in your userspace, you in fact created it in mainspace. If you want to make a page in your userspace (for example, a page called FortyTwo), you type this as the name: User:ChildofMidnight/FortyTwo. Without the User: bit, the page will show up in mainspace (and depending on what it is, be deleted). Quantumobserver (talk) 01:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Right, sorry about that. I will try to move it... Thanks for moving it for me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

• Here it is! Drmies (talk) 01:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Tired today COM? Kidding, I have had to revert myself when I accidentally destroyed a template once, we all have our moments. Oh, and Google is creepy, it follows you everywhere... ominous music... Scapler (talk) 02:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Not only did I waste precious time looking at Mies, Dr.'s mapquest link before I realized it wasn't to the exciting war of words he's involved in that I was hoping to stick my nose into, but it caused my Amiga computer to grind to a halt. And now Scapler pops up with Michael Jackson Thriller jokes. But where are you guys when the FA experts at Tina Turner are telling me that every article on a musician has to start out with "John Doe is a musician from Whoville" zzzzzzzz instead of containing a notable and relevant introduction to the individual's significance? Well? That's what I thought? I need a nap. But first, a shower. What else is going on? And did you know that MJ is a businessman and Celine Dionne is an actress? Wasn't she in Alien v. Predator? Apparently John Mayer is an American Musician, just like my neighbor Bill! Simply the Best!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

State Fair of Florida?

If you created it, then why is it redlinked? Moooooo........ Scapler (talk) 04:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

That blue link appeared exactly eight minutes after my comment, don't think I didn't notice. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 14:35, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Ululation LELELELELELELELE!!!! Scapler (talk) 15:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Thomasville, Pennsylvania

Is Thomasville, Pennsylvania a township, or a borough, or what exactly? Scapler (talk) 19:37, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

LuLuLuLuLuLuLuLuLuLuLuLuLu I have no idea. How do we find that out? It is home to Mr. T's roadhouse [15]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, I gave it an infobox though. That website is certainly right about one thing, the Steeler's are the greatest team in the universe! Scapler (talk) 19:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, it was great. Secondly, the Steelers are far superior to the Jets (though my dad may disagree with me), thirdly Tonedeaf is an amazing Indie album by Orbit, and fourthly, I believe the Zenger trial was so influential that it warrants a separate article. Wooh... that was quite a long list. Scapler (talk) 01:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

-izzle

In what sense has this got anything to do with rhyming slang? (apart from the obvious sense that all words ending in -izzle will rhyme with each other, that is). If I'm missing some deep connection please let me know! pablo_hablo. 21:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

They are both rhyming slangs and language games. I think it's a great see also that provides access to a subject that is similar, but not directly related. They seem to have a lot in common and the similarities and differences make it worth providing a link between the subjects. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:28, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I can understand see also Language Game, but not specifically rhyming slang. pablo_hablo. 21:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

One of the great things about Wikipedia is the way articles link to one another. If there is a direct connection, perhaps a term should be linked in an article, but as is the case here where the connection is intersting and valuable, but not direct, I think a see also connection is valid. It seems to me to make the encyclopedia better. If there were a list of rhyming games, that would be a better link than to an individual one. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:39, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Well on that note, I have added the category "Language games"" to "Rhyming slang". So there's a link there. pablo_hablo. 21:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

A welcome improvement, but adding to a category is not the same as a see also. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:43, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Clearly. But the "see also" is still there. And it now points directly to the article, rather than a redirect page. Which is another improvement. pablo_hablo. 21:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I am also referring to the Cockney rhyming slang, or whatever it is called, that was also a"see also". But I guess I shouldn't push my luck, and I admit the connection isn't a super strong one. But since there isn't a list to connect to (at least not that I know of) and since this seems to be a mjor rhyming game and there don't seem to be articles on lots of others, I thought that rhyming game in particular was an interesting connection. But I'm willing to settle for less. :) Thanks for your communications and your efforts to improve the encyclopedia. Have fun. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

My talk page

I have asked you to stop leaving comments on my talk page. Any discussion you wish to conduct on the Tina Turner article should be left on the talk page for that article. If you cannot stop, I will gladly report you for harassment. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I posted one message on this user's talk page that I can remember, after he repeatedly reverted to a poorly worded section title. I also just posted an acknowledgement of this message. It's always troubling when people get upset when their mistakes are corrected, but not everyone is perfect like I am. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Alan Scott (blacksmith)

On February 17, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Alan Scott (blacksmith), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 07:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Raw beet party

Now this edit is nothing but pure vandalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swedish_cuisine&diff=248249025&oldid=247153510this The guy was creating a picture with a lot of raw beets on some newspaper and he goes, a traditional Swedish meal, eating raw beets, he calls it bedegille and locate it in the south of sweden. This stupid picture with this hoax have been in the article since last year, October, to be more precise.

Tru that Swedea eat strange things sometimes, but never raw beets, especially not on special raw beet-parties.

This image should be deleted, I guess, but I really don’t know how. Just check how many hits you get on Google with bedegille... nome. excepi for Wikipedia. Warrington (talk) 12:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Bongomatic's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Warrington (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

He says bedegille ("beet party"), a traditional meal in southern Sweden, various knifes and tools are used to split the raw beets.

Well, it is not", a traditional meal in southern Sweden. Never heard of bedegille,, and no Google hits as I said. And he named the image Bedegille.JPG.

Harvest feast is indeed called skördefest in Swedish, but you do not make skördefest with some dirty beets only, laid on newspapers. Skördefest looks like this, http://www.aspvikskoloni.se/skordefest.jpg. or C:\WINDOWS\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\YGN215HT\img[1].jpg or this http://www.eckerolinjen.nu/medialibrary/data/stor-skordefestbild-web-%7Buce0z-vkwjp-lvbvl%7D.jpg

Warrington (talk) 17:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it was a poor harvest that year? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:54, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Very funny... I just LOVE Wikipedia. I go aand clean up the Honey article and work with it a whole day, new refernces rhere asked, and everything, and somebody goes and puts back the clean up tag again.

Warrington (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Worker bees

Maybe it's karma for your reversion of my photo changes in the Handenwasseturshoven article? It looks like you did a lot of good work on the honey article. Don't let the bumps in the road phase you. Just stay positive, cool, calm, and collected like I do. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:02, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Lovely words. Thanks, I feel much better now. And yes I am a tulku lama who got lost.

Warrington (talk) 20:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

Thank you for your input. A section has been started at Talk:Michael Jackson, addressing your concerns. Pyrrhus16 19:09, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Stick candy - Starting over

As you've probably already noticed, I decided to have the article protected. I don't want you to be punished for simply following the bad example of other editors. consensus is not a vote, nor is it resolved by ignoring concerns about policies, guidelines, and what is best for Wikipedia. Please focus on the content, and avoid commenting on editors and their behavior. I look forward to your further comments. --Ronz (talk) 23:52, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Chicken fried bacon

On February 17, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Chicken fried bacon, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Bravo!!!Bongomatic 01:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources noticeboard

I have asked a question about using pages like this as reliable sources at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Stick candy--kelapstick (talk) 22:12, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Edward Abbey deletion

Hi, I deleted the second Race quote in the Edward Abbey article because it was redundant. Look closely and you'll see that it appears twice. Thanks.

Okay. Best to use an edit summary so there's no confusion. Thanks for the note. I restored your edit (at least I think I did...).ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Deletion for some Un source Topic

Please stop editing in Zamboanga City thread if you don't have any source to prove.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shin368 (talk • contribs) 12:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Stick candy - adding unsourced information

Please do not add unsourced or original content, as you did to Stick candy. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --Ronz (talk) 19:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL, ummmm unsourced? Aren't you the one who removed the citations for that content? Let's keep discussion on the article talk page. When you're the only editor who keeps reverting something, that's usually not a good sign. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

You've been formally warned for repeated violations of WP:V. If you continue, I'll request you be blocked. It's that simple. --Ronz (talk) 19:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome to request that I be blocked for reverting your deletion of verified content when there is a clear consensus that it should be included and you are the only one trying to remove it. Good luck with that. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:37, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments like that make it all the easier. Keep it up. --Ronz (talk) 20:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad you've followed up. How about you remove this section from your talk page and we start fresh? --Ronz (talk) 00:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Stick candy

Well, the history, the various talk pages, Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Stick_candy, etc. made for good reading. I find myself a bit in the middle on a couple of those things--I think, for instance, that the article had a few too many of those "primary" links, and thus there was a lack of balance. Still, I don't really see (and Bongo's comments on WP:RS are quite valid) that citing a few of those sources is against either the spirit or the letter of WP. That Ronz claims there is a consensus against that particular usage is, well, not very valid, in my opinion, after perusing the Talk page for the article. It seems to me that at least in this particular case their consensus is a consensus of one. Ha, I don't think you'll be blocked quickly either--if that does happen, we might have to invent the bacon slap (as opposed to the bacon slab). BTW, stick candy in the Netherlands is sold at every single fair--my favorite is cinnamon flavored. They get as long as maybe 3 feet. Oh, that's OR (not directly verifiable, but true!). Drmies (talk) 16:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I forgot, the generic name for 'stick candy' in Dutch is zuurstok; kaneelstok is probably not properly hard candy, since they're softer. Here's the (all-too brief and characteristically unreferenced) Dutch WP article: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuurstok. Drmies (talk) 16:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Haha, here's a reference for a 1.5 meter, 10 kg. zuurstok. Drmies (talk) 16:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

A promotional stick of rock, something that passes for candy in Britain. Almost makes the Dutch seem like master chefs

Interesting stuff. In britain they have some other weird candy thing. But the Dutch have these swirly barber pole candies? I am working on getting the fart usage for Dutch oven included in that article if you want to help. Also, I see someone on the talk page has enquired why that type of cooking method is called Dutch. My important work improving the encyclopedia continues!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:57, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Dutch oven = Newfie gas chamber.--kelapstick (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

...eh...aaahhh... Drmies (talk) 17:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Dutch oven

Dutch oven (fart chamber) has been created. But it needs better citations. Feel free to work on this important subject. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

For your work on Dutch oven (fart chamber)

		What a cute puppy!
		This cute puppy has been given to you for your recent amazing performance. Please accept this well deserved cute puppy. Don't forget to train it. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

But should probably be moved to Dutch oven (prank)--kelapstick (talk) 19:09, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hence the puppy! Everyone needs puppies. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Moved. Should Dutch oven be disambiguated? What a lovely animal!Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

If you know anyone else who needs a puppy, Deploy as {{subst:User:Timtrent/puppy}} :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps Timtrent should consider neutering? I see there is discussion of this issue of the less savory meanings for Dutch oven going back to 2006. Hopefully this resolves it. I see also there are other slang uses on the disambig. page. Can we merge them into the new prank article? It's not exactly a prank though in that sense. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The puppy is far too young to be neutered. It needs to be 5-7 months old before one can consider it without harming the beast's development. As for the article, merge away! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I gave you poor information, it should have been Dutch oven (practical joke), as prank redirects to practical joke, I have fixed it and changed all redirects, oddly enough there are not that many links...--kelapstick (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Regarding your latest post on the talk page (more appropriate here), my wife would disagree that it a funny joke :O--kelapstick (talk) 21:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Also I would like to get some references for it being called the Newfie gas chamber and "playing tent" (what we had originally called it)--kelapstick (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

And I can't wait until you get this to DYK...Featured Article here we come!--kelapstick (talk) 21:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I hope Drmies isn't mad at me. We don't associate this joke with anything having to do with being Dutch. It's just a description derived from cooking using the ovens, and most people don't even know what Dutch ovens are, and even for those who do, they're called Dutch ovens, but I don't think there's much connection to the Netherlands is there? I may have a lot of atoning to do. I'd be okay with including it all in the actual Dutch oven article, but it gets deleted from there. And if it gets folded in with other practical jokes and pranks, then people looking for the information at Dutch oven have to go rather far afield. Bah humbug. Now I'm really in the dog house. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

What about turning it into an article about sayings using the word Dutch? Would that be legitimate? What would it be called? Slang uses of the word Dutch? There's going Dutch (dining out where each person pays for themselves), Dutch auction (where the price goes down until a bid is gotten), etc. Or is that just going to make things worse? I guess that's more of a dictionary article? I don't know. I certainly think this use of the phrase Dutch oven should be covered. Is there a better way? ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Dutch oven as a farting game (and I use the word game in its loosest possible context) is notable enough for a stand alone Wikipedia article. It's one of those things that doesn't get enough press, like the various lengths, diameters and flavours of stick candy, but that doesn't mean it isn't notable.--kelapstick (talk) 21:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay. My conclusion is that it would be fine to include it in the Dutch oven article, as it's based on the way things cook inside one, but outside of that I think I agree that a stand alone article is the way to go. FA here we come!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

only 500 more words characters for DKY qualification! I am already contemplating a hook.--kelapstick (talk) 22:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

You have to get the citations right. MUCH more impressive using the cite template. I did one, but too much edit conflict stuff to make it easy!

Oops, sorry. I'll take a break. What do you think of the Australian usage for smoking doobie in a car with the windows rolled up? I found another not great source for it. Here [16]. Do you think I need to separate out a notes section from references? Including quotes is obviously useful, but some "editors" try to get rid of them. This is too bad because links go dead and a quote is a great way to preserve the source in greater context. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Repost of Dutch oven (prank)

A tag has been placed on Dutch oven (prank) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia, because it appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion. If you can indicate how it is different from the previously posted material, place the template {{hangon}} underneath the other template on the article and put a note on the page's discussion page saying why this article should stay. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. If you believe the original discussion was unjustified, please contact the administrator who deleted the page or use deletion review instead of continuing to recreate the page. Thank you. GorillaWarfare ^talk 19:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

VIETNAM

I have reverted the file back to its previous image. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 22:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I win Scapler (talk) 02:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, good question!

Shoot, I didn't even think about it. I had nominated the article before I used the Flikr upload bot to find some photos. Feel free to add one if you'd like, or I can do it in a couple of minutes. Wish I could have found a free use photo of the thing when they found it. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 02:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks.  :) When I saw the original article in Hot Rod a few months ago, the story just blew me away. It sure didn't take long to get the thing back in shape. I'm amazed that Roth actually didn't like the car! A lot of it had to do with the body hiding the engine and chassis. Wouldn't mind having it in my driveway. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 02:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

World Mastership in candy cane making (Polkagris)

(Not a joke). Se at the city info with this too in English http://www.communityofsweden.com/Pages/Stories/Story.aspx?storyId=772 and these guys in this Swedish evning newspaper Aftonbladet say that there is a World Mastership in Sweden candy cane making... – handmade, I mean, 25 July and Lars Hopf from the Chatanna candy cane shop, 2006 http://www.jnytt.se/ReadPrint__9560.aspxfrom Gränna, Sweden, was and Magnus Heidenbom Cabbe Polkagrisfabrik the master 2005 .

Gränna VM in candy cane (Swedish) with e mail http://www.jnytt.se/ReadPrint__9560.aspx is the center of polkagris-making in Sweden, polkagris is candy cane in Swedish. Candy canes are a very traditional old candy in Sweden. By the way, one can find people in folkart and ethnogr. Museums in Sw. demonstratee how they have been made once upona time. %2Bmuseum%26hl%3Dsv%26sa%3DG VM Gränna

Warrington (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks all for the interseting information. Here's the Swedish article (I think) which Drmies can translate [17]. I think the information on Polkagris and Gräna will be good additions to the stick candy article, although I suppose it could go incandy cane too, or Rock (candy). My search indicates this is also a drink, Here is the tourist page for Gränna [18] which includes some history. Of course the European version are a bit primitive compared to our "Old Tyme" candy sticks, but I'm sure you guys will catch on soon.

• • Ehh....Drmies doesn't actually really speak or read Swedish...certainly not well enough to translate...Drmies (talk) 19:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Here are some sites (not great as far as reliability) but with some interesting information. I'm sticking them here for now. [19] includes picture and a map. Reference.com discussion of Candy canes and history and legend[20] reliable? Recipe and such [21]. Commercial website with picture [22] Don't let Ronz see this... MSN search results including videos!!! I lvoe videos. [23]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

You are crazy. I enjoyed reading the marmalade story. Is it true? No, it is vandalism, but it is funny. I do not feel I have to chase fame by creating a lot of articles. I have in mind several I should, but I did not started them yet, so go ahed and do it. I will hang on it later. But I would appriciate a barnstar or a puppy or something like that...

Warrington (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC) a

Odwalla founders started a soda company

Adina World Beat Beverages - thought you might like this one. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 14:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Tina Turner 2

Would you mind pointing out exactly where in this sentence, or in the entire article, are the sources that support your contention that this is a well-sourced statement? I see the use of the word "icon" once in the article and there are absolutely no sources to support that. LaVidaLoca (talk) 19:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure, here's a link [24] (it's also on the article's discussion page). One of the next couple sentences refers to as a Queen of Rock and Roll or something to that effect and the article discusses in depth her 40 year career and legendary status. Icon is a word that is not only well sourced but entirely accurate in characterizing these achievements. As I suggested on the talk page, if there is a better or more accurate or more well sourced term I would be happy to consider it. Thanks for the note. I'm happy to answer any other questions you have. I'm just trying to have accurate and well written leads on the articles I work on. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

But posting a link to an outside source on your talk page or on the article talk page does not constitute a well-sourced use of the word. At no point elsewhere in the article does the word icon appear, so your summarizing the page content and arriving at icon isn't in keeping with use of reliable sourcing. It can certainly be your opinion of the article subject, but it isn't sourced. Also, why would at least 4 other editors have to find a word that would make you happy to consider? There appears to be wide consensus that this, and other changes you made, are not in keeping with consensus or with good article requirements. If 2, then 3, then 4, and maybe more have objected to your edits, perhaps the problem is not with the other editors but with the edits you've made. Do you suppose a request for comments would have any different outcome than what has already occurred? RfCs rarely have more than a handful of opinions be posted, and there is already ample consensus. LaVidaLoca (talk) 19:42, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I think using the word more than once would be redundant, don't you think? Once in the lead serves the purpose of characterizing the singer per the article contents and is supported by numerous sources (intros aren't usually cited and citing a lead sentence would be ugly indeed), but you're welcome to add one or more citations if you deem it necessary. No one seems to object to the word icon as content, the claim is that the word doesn't belong in an intro based on some sort of sheeple think about trying to make every lead identical in every musician article. But every musician is not identical, so that doesn't make any sense and there's no policy to support it. The word is appropriate exactly because it distunguishes this musician from others. That's the whole point of an encyclopedia, to inform people. I'm not sure which other changes you're unhappy with, but I followed Wildhartlicve's suggestion of moving the extensive award discussion out of the lead. I'm stilling waiting for the note of thanks to arrive. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

You're mistaken about citations in the lead. You were clearly told that here with a quote from policy - "should be carefully sourced as appropriate here." That is especially true when you make an extraordinary claim about an article subject. Even your description of your use confirms that something that is unsourced, such as this word, is not repeated in the article, thus it is unsourced. I agree with the other editors on the talk page, if you put a claim into an article, it is your responsibility to reliably source it or it should be removed. What you are doing is essentially synthesizing a description based on your viewpoint of the career. One of the editors made a very valid point that a large number of articles on musicians could use the word icon, which would not distinguish any of them in any way. Readers don't need an editor's interpretation of a musician to draw a conclusion like icon. In the context you are using it, it is POV and unsourced. Let me stress that - it is your responsibility to reliably source your own additions, never to post a general link on talk pages and tell other editors to fix it. From what I've read from the talk page, it's also extraordinary for you to expect anyone to come and thank you for anything you've done on that page since you have bucked consensus consistently, not just here, but as I looked, on other musician articles as well. LaVidaLoca (talk) 20:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

So to summarize, you don't disagree that the word is accurate, you acknowledge there are numerous sources for it, but because someone said Lindsay Lohan has also been referred to as an icon we can't use it? Silly is as silly does. Tina Turner is an icon, this is well established by the article and by independent sources. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

No. To summarize, it doesn't matter whether I think anyone is an icon or not, nor does it matter what you think regarding that. All that matters is that there is no source to support the inclusion of the word and that what you are doing is synthesizing a conclusion based on your interpretation. Nothing in the article says Tina Turner is an icon and independent sources have at no time been added to the article itself to support its use. What also matters is that a consensus has been determined that your inclusion of it is inappropriate. I see you're having problems on other articles with your interpretation of things vs. even reliable sources. I would echo the note from Realist2. This is heading for a request for comments on user conduct. LaVidaLoca (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

<outdent> I'm confused about your statement that there "is no source" to support calling her an icon. I just gave you a link to dozens including headlines such as "HOW ANNA MAE BULLOCK BECAME A ROCK ICON" (their all caps not mine) and other stories that say "Turner is considered a rock 'n' roll icon," "Several new books on pop icons such as Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Tina Turner, Elvis Presley and Motown legends such as the Temptations and the Supremes...," "A new musical tracing the life of rock icon Tina Turner is currently aiming for a London debut" she's ranked 128 on "The 200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons Complete Ranked List" which includes people other than musicians. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

A link posted on your talk page has no meaning on the talk page. Can you seriously have been here for 3 months and not understand the concept of adding references to an article for content you've put in? I don't believe that, so I have to think you're being deliberately obstinate. It has been explained to you over and over that sources need to be added to an article along with the content you put in. And they have to be from reliable sources. Giving me a link to a search page here does not benefit the article in any way, unless you expect someone else to do the work for you. The only time a source is valid is when it's actually put in the article. I know you were given a link on Talk:Tina Turner for assistance in adding citations to articles. LaVidaLoca (talk) 22:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Fun catty

Alack! what poverty my Muse brings forth, That having such a scope to show her pride, The argument all bare is of more worth Than when it hath my added praise beside! O! blame me not, if I no more can write! Look in your glass, and there appears a face That over-goes my blunt invention quite, Dulling my lines, and doing me disgrace. Were it not sinful then, striving to mend, To mar the subject that before was well? For to no other pass my verses tend Than of your graces and your gifts to tell; And more, much more, than in my verse can sit, Your own glass shows you when you look in it.

Mr W. Shakespeare

Do cats eat corn on the cob?

Warrington (talk) 21:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Who cares about that when I got a note from W Shakespeare!!! It makes me laugh that you're involved in Ayn Rand a bit. She's taking over!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

You are a Sherlock Holmes.

Warrington (talk) 22:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

Please continue to use the talk page, this is the 4th edit you have made against consensus, and given your recent history on other articles, I see little choice but to file a user conduct report if this POV behavior continues. Please take this opportunity to slow down. — R² 20:12, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. As you know I asked for citations to support Michael Jackson being a businessman, and in reply a google news link was provided. Other than trivial mentions and unrelated use of the term businessman having nothing to do with Jackson (which goes to confirm that the term isn't in wide use as relating to him), there was no substantial coverage of Jackson as businessman or discussion of his business dealings. So, quite reasonably, I think, I added a dubious tag. I could also have added a citation needed tag and an undue weight tag, if such a thing exists, but I tried to restrain myself. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:16, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The problem is, currently you are the only person who see's it that way. It is not for you to decide what constitutes a business man, yet third party sources are calling him a business man, and that's all that matters. Like I said, please slow down, before you get yourself into trouble. There is no need for things to get heated over such an issue. — R² 20:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

User:IanMacM said "MJ is probably no more of a businessman than any other showbiz star. His acquisition of the rights to the Beatles' songs was his most important business deal, but it is debatable whether he is a businessman in the strictest sense of the word.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)" so I am clearly not the only one who thinks it is inappropriate to refer to him as a businessman and downright strange to do so in the first sentence of the article. I once again suggest an RfC. Please don't remove my appropriate tag for disputed material again. Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:10, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Kupuaina

I put in my comment - merge.

No, I am far from Kerala. Not enough snow for a Newfie.

Right now, I am trying to save the orcas. They were going to be wiped out, so I built a nice, big safe container for them. Now I am told the container is too big: readers will not be able to find their favorite orca among all the others. Can't win. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:20, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

A Newfie steak is a slice of fried bologna. If you add some potato chips you get a Newfie taco. I don't think you want to know about a Newfie breath mint. Newfie gas chamber is new to me, but consistent. I checked but couldn't find any references in Google Scholar. Aymatth2 (talk) 21:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget Newfie fries, never had them myself but they sold them at the restaurant at the Thompson Airport.--kelapstick (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

• For a picture of a different type of Dutch Oven, see http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/maryjane_2007_2007/?action=view&current=CC_UpInSmoke_MS_5.jpg

Indeed. That definition was removed from the article. The only sources I can find are not entirely 100% reliable. I'm also hesitant to popularize the illicit use of herbal rememdies. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

• Fully agree. Reefer Madness makes a compelling case. Bill Clinton is right. Don't inhale. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Smallman12q's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Smallman12q (talk) 23:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Sauerbruch Hutton

On February 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Sauerbruch Hutton, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 00:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• Congratulations! Drmies (talk) 01:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Manhattan Beach

Wow, lots of drama there eh? I saw your suggestion about the long notable people list, check out what they did at my old stompin' grounds, much more gooder no? I do agree with the guy who thought he should put an essay in as the title of a section though (although he gave himself away as unreliable when he use the term "wikipediers"), it does look like it was written by a Realtor. Maybe I should resort to anonymously editing like that to get my point across, it looks like it works.--kelapstick (talk) 00:15, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a nice beach community, but a bit pretentious and overbuilt. I'm hoping to relocate somewhere tropical before the dollar completes its collapse. Doesn't look like I have much time. But like a good captain I'll go down with the ship if it comes to that! ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

No problem

No problem with the edit, my mood and attitude have nothing what-so-ever to do with you. ;) ... I'm just seeing some real issues with a few editors lately, and I hate to "run to mommy" on an AN or AN/I board. I've supported a few peeps here lately, made a real effort to be welcoming,... and get stabbed in the back. I see editors violating consensus, POV-pushing, inserting OR into articles ... (do I need to go on?). None of this has anything to do with you at all ... honest! ;). I can't say what I would like to because it would be against WP:NPA, and un-civil. I see new editors headed down a very bad WP:OWN path, but since they won't discuss things - I can't get anywhere near a reasonable solution. I see editors post "I'm going to gut the article by deleting this" at 12:00, and then posting "Good, since everyone agrees, I'm doing it" at 12:01. I signed on in hopes of a collaborative effort, and I see a grade-school mentality editing style. I see children wanting to WP:OWN articles. I see editors arguing with experienced editors, when they obviously haven't even read the policies and guidelines. I see self-righteous editors who have been here for over 2 years biting new editors. I've tried to talk to folks, and they don't hear - or they hear, and don't listen. I see editors so wrapped up in their own little crusades that they won't even read a total post, look at the links, research the facts, or listen to reason. I see admins spending HOURS bickering over one single granting of rollback, but not spending 15 minutes reviewing the edit history of a problem editor, because they don't want to get involved.

Like I said, changing my page was fine, it made me smile for a moment - and I appreciate that - it's just that at the moment, I'm very disgusted with a lot of things here. I'm really questioning my abilities to provide any worthwhile or valuable input. I'm sorry to blow all this off on you and all, but when I try to explain it to my dog, she just cocks her head and wonders if it means she's gonna get any goodies .. LOL. Oh, and by the way, I did mention to that Ronz editor that I thought he should not have landed so hard on you. For what that's worth. Anyway, I appreciate your cheerful posts, and I wish you the best. — Ched (talk) 03:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey you!

Thanks — Ched (talk) 13:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Upcoming DYKs

• Lifeguard tower - 1307 characters
  • ...that architect Frank Gehry designed a lifeguard tower into a house as part of a remodel in Venice Beach, California?

ALT...a gallery commissioned fourteen of the world's best-known architects to design lifeguard towers, with specifications including 360-degree visibility, vandal-proofing and a hypothetical budget of $17,000? (The specific gallery would be nice)

• MBM (architecture firm) - 2038 characters
  • ...that as the one of the only exponent of modernism under Francisco Franco the architecture firm MBM served as a launching pad for many Spanish architects?
• Florida State Fair - 1493 characters
  • ...that the Florida State Fair was founded as the South Florida Fair in 1905, renamed the Mid-Winter Festival and has had its current name since 1915?

(not very interesting, that is why I wanted to work it into the chocolate covered bacon)--kelapstick (talk) 17:12, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I expanded Lifeguard tower those hooks look very fine.

Your MBM hook is lame. How about something about the Barcelona Olympics? Or something about their success but their latest design known as the stapler being rejected? Have you been staying up late playing video games, because your game is off. Or maybe these articles are lame? I'll try to fire up something stronger ASAP. Did the square milk jug get easier to pour as you emptied it?

I put up a hook for the State Fair. And I added a few characters so hopefully it's long enough. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:00, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Oops. I don't think the Lifeguard tower article qualifies, but I hooked MBM up with a hook about their show of uncompleted (failed) work. Good luck crossing the animals. :P ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Who are you calling lame? Actually the articles just don't have anything provocative to extract, not like a casino owner/politician. Yes the square milk jug is easier to poor when it isn't as full, however we have reverted to cartons since the grocery store is open later (read actually open when I get off work) than the bakery, and we actually get other things there. And I use cartons because they don't recycle here so if I am going to be forced to throw out my milk container it will be cardboard not plastic. Maybe we should create a square milk carton (patent pending). Tonight is catch up on what we have taped on the DVR since I spend too much time on the Wii.--kelapstick (talk) 04:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to come up with something exciting and controversial for the next article I work on. Fakon... ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Holiday Bowl (building)

On February 21, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Holiday Bowl (building), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 11:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Armet & Davis

On February 21, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Armet & Davis, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 05:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The article needs more photos, but I'm not sure about this addition [25]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Chocolate covered bacon

On February 21, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Chocolate covered bacon, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 17:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Sculpture (magazine)

It has more content and establishes notability since I nominated it. The article improved, a good outcome. Scapler (talk) 20:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Aren't you supposed to be working on a photo for my Dutch oven (prank) article? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I started a separate article for the ISC. At least it is more notable that the dutch Oven prank! Pustelnik (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Art takes many forms. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Tell me when you find one that involves farting. :) Scapler (talk) 21:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

FreeLinc

I added this reference from Urgent Communications, a reliable source, to the FreeLinc article. You may want to revisit Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FreeLinc. -- Eastmain (talk) 01:14, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Versailles Cuban restaurant

On February 22, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Versailles Cuban restaurant, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 06:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

A diversion

You may have an opinion on this deletion review or in deed on the user space created article that is the subject of the review. Whatever your opinions are I'd appreciate knowing them.

The whole thing was about 3 miles from my home in 1978. Not the review, obviously! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I took a look and have pondered it, but it's a bit above my pay grade I'm afraid. I'll try to stay updated on it and see if I can offer or add anything. Thanks for thinking of me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

RE: Chremzl

Thank you for calling my attention to the new article. This certainly brings back memories of distant childhood: my maternal grandmother used to make chremzl for Passover. I will see if I can contribute anything to improve this stub. Best, --Zlerman (talk) 01:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Glad it is of interest. Food is a wonderful part of life, part of many memories and joys. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Florida State Fair

On February 23, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Florida State Fair, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 01:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey you:)

A kitten

My kitten has run away... Wonder why?

and can everybody start wrighting all kinda interpretaions of policies and than want people to follow it? like User:Uncle G/On sources and content.

how about Cake decorating and Is It Really Better Than Sex? Cake ...? Warrington (talk) 22:17, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Why, ChildofMidnight, in my opinion this is a very good external link, don't you thinhk so?

• A Traditional Swiss Roll Recipe from 1970

ps

Isn't it gravlox in English, lox not lax? Warrington (talk) 22:03, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes I think that recipe is fine. No, I don't think it's gravlox. What does spam is your grandmother mean? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Some gangmember removed this link, sumarizing his effort as: Remove spam. Spam is your granny would mean - when pigs fly, or No way, something like that, I just invented it now.

Wow! Forgot to tell you how enthusiastic I feel about the new Polkagris. God job! You do well with candy!

Oh, yes polkagrisar is simply plural.

Good night! Warrington (talk) 23:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

QIThis user is Quite Interesting.

Here are some userboxes to you:

This user knows
The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

|

This user knows
The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

-|

Is there a risk that I will get some messages from a moose? And I have a certain feeling that we will soon have a new article ob Jodejkoek...

Warrington

This user Warrington may be under the control of a "Chinese secret service agent" named Xing.

(talk) 14:04, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, polka pig.

File:Piazza navona 0511-01.JPG

Pig

Polka

There is a guy around here who is a bit shy... Can’t really make up his mind. Yes, pigs are gris, do not ask me why, maybe some 18oo’s joke.

Warrington (talk) 19:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC) My talk page makes me laugh every time I see it. This guy is really funny. I like the article Polkagris,. Do you like my polkapig changes? Thanks for the new member in my animal collection, see you later alligator Warrington (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the appreciation. Actually, how are candy cane and polkagris related to each other? They look rather similar too me. Ancestor? And next? Jodekoeken maybe? But Jodenkoek needs involving a Dutch, my Dutch is kind of basic but not much more.

Warrington (talk) 23:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Something for You... http://www.panter.nu/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/polka.gif

Warrington (talk) 15:04, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Did you take a look at Ando now? And I do wonder if it was not Aunt Ammalia who is behind the peppermint and the stripes http://www.inventhelp.com/Candy_Cane_Invention.asp?

Well, I dod¨t know but it ssais: The first documented reference of candy canes in the United States goes back to 1847, when a German-Swedish immigrant named August Imgard decorated his Christmas tree by hanging the treats from its branches. Friends and family members were delighted by Imgard's idea, and they rushed home to adorn their own Christmas evergreens with candy canes. This tradition quickly spread across the country, making candy canes a staple of Yuletide celebration in the U.S. However, these plain white canes still lacked the colorful designs seen in today's versions. No one is sure exactly when the customary red stripes were introduced, but it was somewhere right around the turn of the century. According to Webb Garrison's Treasury of Christmas Stories, "Christmas cards produced before 1900 show plain white canes, while striped ones appear on many cards printed early in the 20th century." Additionally, the popular peppermint-flavored variation also emerged around the same time as the striped patterns. Italic text is from the source above Warrington (talk) 18:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

is this something you are looking for?

a smelt

?

Warrington (talk) 09:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

two things...

...first of all, thanks for the cheese! But when I finish that plate I might put the boobies back since I really got used to them. Maybe not, we'll see. Then, congratulations on all the work and the DYK recognition! You deserved feathers in your butt (that's where the Dutch stick them). Third of two things: I made a snack yesterday--with apple-smoked bacon and a chocolate ganache. It was not bad! But it also was not so good that I'll make it again, I think. I took some pictures and will upload as soon as peace and calm have returned to the Dr's household, in a month or so, haha. Take care, and thanks again! Drmies (talk) 15:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey, this wasn't me! Chicken fried bacon and waffles, that sounds great! Drmies (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

For creating a sub page without telling me! It actually came in handy today, what me worry?--kelapstick (talk) 00:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

An inspiring message to be sure. I'm glad you found benefit in it. Where is the Polkagris hook??? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:45, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm a bit lost

Hello, sorry for bothering you, I am really trying to find my way through Wikipedia without bothering people. However there are some things I do not understand.
First of all, I do not know what I have to do now. I've seen that the Award article is relisted, though I do not understand what this means for me or for the article - so what has to be done?
Then during the last days I've tried to find articles about the Award, unfortunately there were mostly press releases by companies for products that have been awarded. There was only a small article in the asiafoodjournal. And there was something written in French on lalibre.be. Within Wikipedia there is a link from the Greek company FAGE to the Award. Not really helpful. On the other hand, before I wrote my first two articles I looked up other articles in the food/drink and/or award area and I do not see that the notability or sources or references criteria differs much from other beer award articles (e.g. World Beer Cup or Champion Beer of Wales, where the articles behind the links are not only genuine journalism but also companys' releases). Somehow I still do not know what has to be done, to remove those flags or marks from those two articles that I've written. And who removes them. Is it my job to add something and then I am allowed to remove the flags until the article is checked/proofread by someone else? Or do I add something and someone else removes after re-reading the marks? And my last question: it is not only that the Superior Taste Award article was marked with the deletion flag. It is also that this article and the European Beer Star article are obviously not good enough. The problem is, that I just do not have a clue what else to write so that they meet quality standards ...
So I'd be really glad, if you could give me some more hints how to improve my articles. Thanks in advance. Joheba (talk) 00:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)joheba

Barnstar

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		To ChildofMidnight, I hereby award this barnstar for your maintaining a neutral viewpoint and protecting Wikipedia's standards. Keep the good work!Caspian blue 05:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Caspian. I may need that armor. :) Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Star Mississippi's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

StarM 13:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Two article hook

I managed to work one in... ...that the 700 ton per day smelter the Granby Consolidated Mining, Smelting and Power Company, Limited built in Grand Forks, British Columbia for the Phoenix Mine was the largest in the British Empire?--kelapstick (talk) 17:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I had to submit (just in case) a second one removing the limited from the GCMSPCL since the original was 2 characters over, who the hell needs that many words in their name?

Removing the limited seems a good idea. I thought naming conventions would exclude it from the article title anyway? How's the Polkagris hook coming? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Although look at Falconbridge Ltd., and before the Vale take over, Inco was at Inco Ltd. (not that I agree with it). There were about 6 names to choose from so I went with final decision for the title. I didn't know abut Polkagris, I will take a look.--kelapstick (talk) 17:25, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Interseting. Not sure why Ltd. would need to be included any more than Inc., Dr., Phd, tm, etc. Seems frivolous. Good job on the double hook though and the mining articles. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

You asked if Polkagris was long enough, well over at 2500 characters.--kelapstick (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Marie de France and WP:HOAX

Well, sir, you'll just have to break that to my students yourself, since they really liked her stories! Hey, when was your birthday--you never said. I'll send you a copy of her Lais. It's not the Fountainhead, but it's still good stuff! Drmies (talk) 15:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Gruel in pop culture

Hi, the thing with sections like these is that there are many mentions in popular culture which could be considered to be ephemeral, not least because there are so many. For example, how many sitcoms mention peas, or how many cartoons mention pancakes? The Dickens reference was retained, properly so, I believe. Badagnani (talk) 17:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Yr esteemed opinion

Is this correct and a reasonable way to deal with the tag in question? Bongomatic 19:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I would remove your comment Bongo. Deb's experienced and I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get across, but it seems a little bit snarky to me. I would just add more cites and remove the tag. Why are you unhappy with it? I only see one citation and there's no mention of awards or ummm that kind of thing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Why are you unhappy with it? I'm not unhappy with it (I try not to let WP influence my emotional state too much). But a full-length NYT Obituary is (as I've commented elsewhere) the epitome of a demonstration of notability of a person, and (as pointed out both in the WP:GNG and in my comment) any rebuttal of the presumption required under that guideline requires comment. Tagging a stub-tagged article that is well-referenced seems idiotic and unproductive.

Your comment on the tone is spot on, so I will change it. Obliged! Bongomatic 19:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

You could just remove the tag with an edit summary saying "NYT obituary is solid evidence of notability". I think adding one more citation and then removing the tag would be even better. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:40, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Because it is an experienced editor who is generally reasonable, I'd rather address the issue. Bongomatic 19:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Maybe let her know that. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Bongomatic 19:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Curtis Pitt

Hi
Since I noticed your edit summary at Curtis Pitt: You're right that being a candidate in an election isn't a "good indication of notability", but that's not what it takes to pass WP:CSD#A7; it's only asking for an indication of importance or significance, and being a candidate in a state election is one. He might very well fail WP:POLITICIAN, but deserves the time and eyes he gets with a PROD or AfD. A7 was intended for the most blatant cases of non-notability, like all the highschool kids and myspace bands out there.
Cheers, Amalthea 20:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Anyone can remove a speedy, so I have no complaints. As far as the speedy tag being warranted, that article makes no claim to notability and its only source is [26]. I strongly disagree that being a candidate in an election is a good indication of notability. Winning an election or receiving substantial coverage from reliable independent sources is. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:55, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

As I said: an indication of notability (per WP:N) is not necessary to get past A7. Sources aren't necessary either. An indication of importance or significance is enough, and I do think we can agree that being a candidate in a state election is indication that he might be important.
From what I'm seeing in the article I'd absolutely give an opinion to delete in an AfD – but it's not a call that should be made by you and me alone.
Cheers, Amalthea 21:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't see any indication of importance or significance, and I don't see a candidate for a state election. I see someone running in an election to represent "a narrow coastal strip running from the southern suburbs of Cairns at its northern end to Innisfail at its southern end. Mulgrave also includes the towns of Gordonvale and Babinda." Seems to me a candidate for this office is the very definition of not notable unless it can be verifiably sourced with substantial coverage and even then it would fall under wp:crystal and wp:one event. After (if) he wins? That's another story. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I suspect there is not even an article on the election in this state. But maybe redirecting to the election would be appropriate. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I know nothing about Australian electoral law, but the way I read it is: If he wins the election in Mulgrave, then he enters the Parliament of Queensland. The election page is at Queensland state election, 2009, and Curtis Pitt is listed on the rather limited list at Candidates of the Queensland state election, 2009.
But see, that's exactly the point why A7 doesn't apply here: the two of us can't make that call since we can't say with certanity. If there's any credible claim that he just might be important (again, notability doesn't enter that process at all), then his article is not an SD candidate. Feel free to ask others, or ask at WT:CSD if you're convinced that I'm wrong. :)
Cheers, Amalthea 21:44, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm redirecting to the election. I think that's a satisfactory outcome. These things are often judgement calls, and I differ with your opinion, but respect your decision to remove the speedy tag. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, sounds good. Cheers, Amalthea 22:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice job finding the election article by the way. And since many of the other candidates have articles, your instincts/ judgement may have been right. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Hate to interrupt (and come in late), but he is running for what would resemble the State legislature in the United States, what we usually do for articles about unelected Canadian politicians (without notability) is redirect to an article about the candidates for the election by party such as Liberal Party candidates, 2003 Ontario provincial election, but since they don't have articles that detailed you're probably right in your redirect. Interesting to note though that Warren Pitt is the current Member of Parliament for that district. Could be his father, although not stated in either article.--kelapstick (talk) 00:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

What happens to pages that are never patrolled?

Excellent point. Many pages are created and perhaps limp through WP:NPP, then languish here, unexamined and poorly-sourced; until they spring out of the mist as needing attention. The latter is largely accidental, and I've found many indefensible articles by simply looking through the contribs records for IP or vandal editors. This makes me think that our process for creating articles is too optimistic; we already here prevent IP editors from creating articles, and that is probably correct with respect to the GFDL as regards not only liability, but also credit. But as regards articles that are created and never expanded beyond a stub, that's up to there being some editor somewhere who is committed enough to take the effort enough to work it. Rare, sadly, because we don't have professional editors here. --Rodhullandemu 23:07, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Seems like a dirty little secret. I'm sure someone is going to block me for exposing it, or worse. My personal policy suggestion would be that any time there is an extensive backlog of unchecked pages, all arb com proceedings, extended debates, RfCs etc. would be put on hold until it is resolved. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

United Assembly of Christ

Hi... I noticed your AfD of this article. The creator actually removed the speedy tag from the article without allowing a sysop to review it. I'll leave it up you whether prefer to leave the AfD nomination in place or withdraw it and just restore the speedy tag. Cheers. --Rrburke^(talk) 01:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I see now you were the one who added the speedy tag in the first place. Don't mind me: head's on crooked this evening. --Rrburke^(talk) 01:49, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

hey mentor

have i been bad? i don't really see it, but my posts are getting deleted from the ayn rand discussion page. i haven't touched the actual ayn rand page. please advise.Brushcherry (talk) 09:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)brushcherry

Advise

Never h. of it, you can delete it if you want that. Is there someone who I can ask for a third oppinion on the Honey article? This young boy is making wery unconstructive edits, one can not treat an article this way, it is bad for the encyclopaedia.

Any suggestions? Warrington (talk) 22:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey, just so you know, this "young boy" (who is actually an adult professional) has a strong family history of beekeeping and honey production, and has been referencing almost all of my edits that add or remove information, and are not just copy-editing. I don't see how that's unconstructive, in fact I think it's the opposite. I do my best to follow wiki guidelines and policies.

Best regards,

-LogisticEarth (talk) 23:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Hahahaha. I knew Warrington was headed for trouble with that comment. I think he was kidding around though, and I say that as someone who has done everything possible to contribute to his delinquency. I'm still trying to figure out what his grandmother has to do with whether links are spammy or not. Maybe you know? What exactly is the contested issue? I'm not going to have to go look for myself am I? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think he's taking some offense a my rewording of some of his contributions. He adds a lot of definitive statements (ie. "always" and "all") etc, that, while generally true, don't always tell the complete picture. There's also an issue with a source and information, that apparantly he added, that I find dubious. There are several other sources in the article that directly contradict what the paragraph claims, and it's in Ukraninian so I can't read the article myself and clarify. I'll be frank, a few of the sources he's posted before have kind of misrepresented what's in the text, or simply haven't been RS's at all. -LogisticEarth (talk) 00:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I think Warr may be staying up very late at night to edit. He may just need more sleep, exercise and a homecooked meal. I feel for him. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Very funny. I did not add the Ukrainian ref, but removing referenced material is not the best way to edit. I did not add always and all, all the time, and I was merely restructuring stuff, so you better take a look at the edits before you make up your mind, CoM. Also, text needs to be easy to read and understand. And logical for someone who is not fanmiliar with the subject, which is my point of view, and those edits are not very helpfull.

Warrington (talk) 00:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

What time is it there? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

An article has to be an information on the subject which is easy to follow and understand, not messy and not with the information dumped whithout a logical line. Warrington (talk) 00:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Grandmother says get some sleep! ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

And yes, someone who is 23 is till very very young, even if they do not realize it themselwes.

And yes, someone who is 23 is still very very young, even if they do not realize it themselwes. Maybe he thinks he knows better than everybody else, because of his family, but creating an article for everyone to read is not the same thing, others may have valid points of wiews to.

Warrington (talk) 17:41, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Omelette

Hi, I think you are referring to Tomato Omelette. It was one of my first articles. I didn't know that pages could be moved. So I had created a redirect. It was a wrong thing to do, I suppose. Paalappoo (talk) 02:05, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Feel free to make the corrections... Please check Indian Omelette also. :) Paalappoo (talk) 10:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey CoM, do you really think these articles can stand on their own? Maybe a merger is helpful. Drmies (talk) 04:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Check em out. Tomato omelette is an Indian dish that contains no egg. Where would you merge it? I think it's a cool article. :) The other one, ummm, could be merged. I guess they both could be. More people might find them. I don't know. Depend what the omelette article looks like. Certainly it would be good to mention them and provide a wikilink. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

2+1

Yes, they seem to be in a pretty bad shape, Armenian cuisine, Lebanese food and seafood. Lebanese food is completely without anypictures. The problem is that I don’t know anything about this subject.

Warrington (talk) 18:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

What a great opportunity to study up! Are you going to try out some of the dishes? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok, ~I'll see what I can do.

Warrington (talk) 23:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll eee you in my dreams. (Get some sleep as you have recommended).

Warrington (talk) 23:35, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Kinesiology tape

I have reverted you bold redirect in good faith and have opened the proposed merger up for community discuss at Talk:Kinesiology#Merger_proposal. My initial feeling is that the article needs a lot of help, but the subject matter is notable enough to stand on its own. Your input is most welcomed! -- Levine2112 ^discuss 03:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

ChildofMidnight/Muse of Fire?

I declined the speedy deletion for spam on this; the tone wasn't promotional, and the author won a Hugo, so even though notability for this short novel wasn't asserted, it might be notable anyway. I've left some advice on the editor's talk page for who he might talk with.

When you tag articles for speedy deletion, please give an edit summary that makes it clear that you're nominating the article for speedy deletion, and leave a friendly note (usually ... maybe not so friendly for attack pages :) on the editor's talk page. You might want to use WP:Twinkle to automate this. - Dan Dank55 (push to talk) 04:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. I appreciate your extra effort. I think a bot follows up my speedy noms. I agree it would be nice to leave a note. I'll have to go look at what this article was all about though. As far as Twinkle goes, whe it takes over, I will be the only editor who's safe! Haven't you seen Terminator and Battlestar Galactica? Sure those things are working for you... now! ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:22, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

This section is awesome. It makes it look like there's an article on me! But it's a redlink, so someone else must have speedied it. I disagree strongly with this outcome. Clearly I am notable. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Some people do prefer to write a personal note rather than use Twinkle's automated note for the editor's talk page; it's friendlier, but takes more time. Whatever works for you. The bot notification in cases where no note is left is not recommended; people know that it's a machine talking to them. - Dan Dank55 (push to talk) 04:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Tell you what, if you help me get the templates modified so the aggresive warning signs are eliminated from the notes, I'll try to leave more notes for the noobs. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:46, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree the warnings should either always be friendlier, or a friendlier warning should be an option with Twinkle. Do you have any suggestions for text? The Twinkle people are very open to suggestions, and there's a recent decision at WP:RFA to work on CSD issues. - Dan Dank55 (push to talk) 05:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

My suggestions is to take out the warning signs within the templates. It's excessive. People get a notice that they have a message and they get a message, that's enough. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Donald Graham Burt

Done. 3 major awards and one major nomination. Plus filmology and soucing for all. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 05:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Gloe lake

Hi. This did look doubtful, but I have dug about a bit, and find it is genuine - details on its talk page - so I have taken off the "hoax" tag. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 09:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Automatic patrolling of tagged pages at New Page patrol

Hi there. There is a suggestion to get a bot to patrol any New Page that an editor has tagged for CSD, AfD, etc. As someone who patrols a lot, your opinion is particularly welcomed. --GedUK  10:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Boparai

As far as I know, Boparai is a surname. From the article, it looks like a community or caste. The article is uncategorized. Paalappoo (talk) 11:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Pl check Indian name. Boparai is there in Punjab. I am right, I feel. Paalappoo (talk) 11:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Messed up nom

What strings are you supplying to the template? Gatoclass (talk) 04:26, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Use the template to post your hook on this page and I will see if I can troubleshoot it. Gatoclass (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

There itis. Still looks weird to me with that mini writing. Wah happen? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:21, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I see now there is another template to use when there are "comments" and an image. So I'm just going to use that one. But I still think this one seems messed up, the basic new article template. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Other people's noms look all nice and how I remember them and mine has weird formatting in it. Here's a comparison:

Polkagris

• ... that Polkagris is a Swedish candy stick invented in 1859 by a widow in Gränna?

Created/expanded by ChildofMidnight (talk). Self nom at 16:26, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

•   Polkagris – ChildofMidnight (give) (tag)

Kōmyō-ji

• ... that Kōmyō-ji, a leading Jōdo temple in Japan during the Edo period, dedicated to the training of Buddhist priests and scholarly research, has a pet cemetery (pictured) on its premises? — New article by Urashimataro (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 06:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

On the edit page mine doesn't look like theirs... What's with the small sig line? There are no areas for expander and co-creators. there's a {{*mp}} thing. Seems weirdChildofMidnight (talk) 16:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

This one looks different because it used the old template. All the templates will look like yours in a few days :) Gatoclass (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Polkagris

• ... that Polkagris tastes like chicken?

Created by ChildofMidnight (talk). Self nom at 16:20, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

•   Polkagris – ChildofMidnight (give) (tag)

That seems to have turned out okay. What's wrong with it? :) Gatoclass (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

The reason there is small print for your sig is because rjanag decided to make it small. Once people start using the new template, all the noms will look like that. Gatoclass (talk) 17:19, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I made the text of the "created/expanded by..." small so that it would be easier to distinguish from the hook itself. Also I think small text is pretty.

As for the {{*mp}}, I did that because on the main page we have to use {{*mp}} instead of plain bullets (something about how they show up in Firefox), and in the past the people preparing updates would just go through and change the bullets ti {{*mp}}s manually, so I figured this would save a step.

As for the lack of co-creator/expander fields, it was suggested to me that it would be easier to not distinguish between creators and expanders, and just list everyone as "author" no matter whether it's a new or expanded article (the logic was that, when people review the nom, they check the article history anyway, so it's easy to tell if it's a new or expanded article). The old names |creator= and |expander= still work, though; if you accidentally type expander=ChildofMidnight instead of author=ChildofMidnight it'll still appear.

As for why the code shows up now...basically, it's an attempt to get the T:TDYK page to not be so slow. In the past, the page had hundreds of transcluded templates (since every nomination had a {{DYKsuggestion}} template inside of it), and often took a very long time to load; plus, there was a lot of unnecessary text (since the templates showed stuff like |expander4= and |ALT2=, which were almost never used). So now the template automatically subst's itself, and only generates the text that is actually necessary...the idea is to minimize the amount of junk on the T:TDYK page, and keep it from taking forever to open.

If you have any problems in the future placing a nomination, just shoot me a message and I can help you post it. Or, if I'm not around, Gatoclass and Backslash Forwardslash are both pretty familiar with how the template works. Best, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 17:08, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

List

• Polkagris, of course (red and white, hand twisted stick and small bits)

‘*More different bread types

• Better meatballs
• A close up lingonsylt
• Pickled herring
• Spettekaka
• Kringla
• Blåbärssoppa
• A classical dinner with boiled potato, gravy and meat

Warrington (talk) 23:21, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I have put in a request. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Middle Colonies

Cheers! Scapler (talk) has saluted you for a job well done!

Thank you for your support in getting this article into the DYK Queue! I believe we may have set precedent there friend. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 12:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There really isn't that much vandalism, believe me, I've edited pages like Naruto Uzumaki, now those are vandalism riddled pages. And I just love history, and could not stand that such fundamental American history pages were stubby with tags. So, no school assignment, just a history nerd passion of mine. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 02:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I misunderstood until I saw the vandalism. Sorry 'bout that sir! Oh, and congrats on another DYK, you're like a monster! Cheers! Scapler (talk) 02:34, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for MBM (architecture firm)

On February 27, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article MBM (architecture firm), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Joke

Monkey

You monkey, what is this? uoʇ6uiɹɹɐʍ (talk) 22:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't say for sure, but it looks like someone took a monkey wrench to your signature and turned it upside down. Why is there a 9 instead of a g? These are interesting times indeed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:34, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Three hour "break"?

RE: Three hour break

ChildofMidnight wrote:

Taking a break sounds like a good idea. And remember, we can't all be perfect Ikip. Just me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:30, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

The amount of effort to save anything on wikipedia is completely disporportianal to those who want something kept, as opposed to those who want something deleted. After 4 years here, I have yet to find a quick and easy solution to countering such disruptive behavior.

Hundreds of hours maybe invested referencing an article (like in the case of Business Plot) in an attempt to make the article the best reference on the web, but all it takes is less than two hours for two like minded editors with a history of disruption, to delete dozens of references and over a thousand words of references, that is why I have an Talk:Business Plot#RfC open about this disruptive and destructive behavior. Ikip (talk) 13:30, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

One hell of a grand welcome...

This diff exemplifies what a greeting and welcome to wiki should be. Very, very nice. And on another note, might you consider looking at User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox/Coons! Night of the Bandits of the Night Coons! ? I feel very close to it being ready to survive in the waters of mainspace... being as full of shark-repellent as I can figure. Thanks, Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 19:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks good to me Schmidty. Can you move some of the cites from the intro the plot section? I added it to my watch list. And nothing gets by me... for the most part. Thanks again for taking such good care of the work I tasked you with. Very lazy on my part, but your help was and is much appreciated. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Look again and tell me you're lovin' it. And thank you exceedingly for that beautiful award. Makes me proud. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 20:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course I'm lovin' it (McDonalds). Those changes look great. You are the master! ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Us Now

An article that you have been involved in editing, Us Now, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Us Now. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. ZimZalaBim ^talk 21:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Polkagris

On February 28, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Polkagris, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 22:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia

On Wikipedia editors can make changes to articles. And sometimes, even when you change the article back or update it in a way that you're quite sure is superior, it gets reverted repeatedly. This is very aggravating. On the other hand you can always leave a note on your calendar and go back to the article and try again in a few weeks or months, and hope no one notices. Or you can just move on to a different article, whistling a tune that is pleasing to you. Make sure to keep things in perspective. You're not going to win every battle, and everyone seems to lose in feuds. Other editors may stumble along the same article and work on it too, so while you may be alone now, you may be the majority later. Best of luck Ikip. And make sure to maintain a balance by doing fun stuff away from Wikipedia, otherwise you will go insane as I have. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

too late. Ikip (talk) 21:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Taking about going insane because of battles....12:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Ralcorp

Ralcorp is a diversified food company which makes much more than store brand breakfast cereal so the introduction is insufficient for what this company makes which also includes Post Cereal, cookies, crackers, frozen foods, store brand food preparation products such as mayonnaise, snack foods and chocolate. This is shown on their web site at http://www.ralcorp.com Steelbeard1 (talk) 00:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Jacekkbdg

Maybe a combined AfD? Enigma^msg 01:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Doner kebab, Iskender kebap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Food_and_drink Will you take a look? If you have the time and knowledge, I am not sure what is best to do.

Will you take a look? If you have the time and knowledge. Since 26 febr things have been removed that maybe should stay I am not sure what is best to do here.

Very best regards

Warrington (talk) 15:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see anything too distressing, but what are the names added to the photo captions? Also, I think the links being removed from cake decorating aren't great, so I'm not sure why you want them kept. Have you tried sleeping? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:40, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Because you didn’t noticed a picture in the lead with a big fat guy, with the text Uncle Bblublu is making the best kebab in Turkey, in this and that town and everybody loves it, or something like that, and kebab in other countries is also gone. Never mind. In the cake decorating I want to keep the text and this IP is edit warring everywhere, especially on maffia related artricles. If he does’t like the refs, remove refs, not the section. what do u feel when youare asked to come and set up a new cafeteria in town? youare given money and uare expected to source for location and get the place running. this is a challenge that must be overcome within a time frame.what will you do? —Preceding unsigned uoʇ6uiɹɹɐʍ (talk) 23:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

These are all very good questions...

Warrington (talk) 22:39, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Middle Colonies question

I am currently in disagreement with another editor on the Middle Colonies article (a productive IP, which is always nice to see!). However, though I have given my arguments, I fear, in light of my current work on the article, that I may not be evaluating the issue objectively. So, could you do me a favor and see Talk:Middle Colonies and give your opinions? Much, much appreciated. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 23:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Midnight

Warrington (talk) has given you a fresh piece of fried chicken! Chickens promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a piping hot chicken, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Bon appetit!

Spread the tastiness of chickens by adding {{subst:GiveChicken}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Warrington (talk) 12:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

• Some national dishes for you Fufu Cou-Cou Kuli-Kuli Flying fish hairy crab and Stinky tofu

Some people like to remove everything from food articles, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cake_decorating&diff=274696018&oldid=274682585

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cake_decorating&curid=11972010&diff=274696148&oldid=274696077,

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cake_decorating&diff=274696077&oldid=274696018

Some more food for you

Just done: Black garlic (food). Feel free to play with it--I think there's a Flickr photo, but I don't know how to add those. Bon appetit! Drmies (talk) 03:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

• Nice tweaking, thanks! That Flickr photo accompanied this. It's very pretty. Oh, since Black garlic refers to that ornamental plant, should there be a dab page or something? I don't know if our black garlic is big enough to warrant one: your advice is appreciated, as always. Later! Drmies (talk) 19:05, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I saw something funny and added it: [27]. Drmies (talk) 21:27, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Why this edit? It seems to me that the specificity of 'food' is what's at stake here. And what are you doing up so early? Drmies (talk) 17:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Wow, I'm watching Bobby Flay training with Morimoto to take on Phillip Yi in the sushi throwdown...amazing...you've been to Sushi Central? I am SO jealous! Drmies (talk) 02:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Table work

Should be set as a redirrect to the stronger Read-through, which can easily be sourced. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:39, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at MichaelQSchmidt's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Trust me, its a subset and subprocess of the larger article. Table work is a part of the table read. Am sourcing and expanding Read-through now, to cover film and theater. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:54, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Nuclear

I changed the sentence so that the irrelevant bit about pollution is removed, but for the record nuclear is not carbon neutral.[28] NJGW (talk) 23:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

That looks a lot better, though obviously the whole article needs work. NJGW (talk) 23:51, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Michael Christopher

I was asked for an opinion by an editor... took a look, added a couple sources and thought to write you. I personally think these things ought to all have a placeover on WIkiPorno and not a Wikipedia where 10-years-olds peruse the pages. My own earlier delete opinions at other such pornstar articles sent to AfD were quickly flooded by those editors who came forward with non-pay sources toward notability. I am not suggesting that you withdraw the nom, but don't be surprised if over the next few days sources get piled up... like poop through a goose. I admire JRiverton at least looking elsewhere in seeking an asnswer. And I do respect him suggesting that notability can be sourced if given enough time... though the article has been growing slowly for almost 2 years. He's got potential. Toss a few courtesy notices on those contributing ditor's pages and watch their smoke. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 03:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

In other news, was this the correct response? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 07:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Baconnaise

I see we have an article for Baconnaise but, shockingly, it's an anemic stub in dire need of expansion. As I know you have a certain affection for bacon-related topics, I thought I'd suggest this to you and Drmies as a possible near-future topic of interest. Come to think of it, Bacon Salt looks a little small, too. I'm just saying. - Dravecky (talk) 04:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

• Hey Child, first of all, thanks for cleaning up after me in Slavink--that was embarrassing. Second, I'm a bad, bad bacon man. I'm thinking that the best thing for Baconnaise and Bacon Salt is merger into bacon......you see why I had to whisper that? I just don't think they're that important, and the search for sources is quickly, quickly exhausted. Are you feeling better yet, or did my heretic comments send you hurling again? Drmies (talk) 18:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Recent stuffy

I can't believe there was a user called BACON EXLPOSION, and he turned out to be a sockpuppet, tarnishing the good name of bacon...how dare he. I haven't checked out the arbcom verdict yet. I will have to see how that pans out, I have been a Conscientious objector through the whole thing, mainly because I had never heard of Ayn Rand before you brought her up, but I was never much of a philosiphinator. Recently I have been tied up with some real world stuff, lots of investors coming through here so I have been pretending to be a geologist. I think I am going to focus on Cortez Hills Mine in Elko now, I have some good references in hand (literally). I was listening to my iPod this morning on the way in and Gordon Lightfoot's The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald seguayed into The Killers' Somebody Told Me, that was a shock.--kelapstick (talk) 16:29, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Latest work is here, still have a lot to do on it (the history is/was very confusing, I didn't realize it was a big property with an operating mine with another being built on it until I was half way through where I am now), I would like to get some pictures, so I may have to phone a guy I know there. Oddly enough Flickr doesn't have an abundance of pictures of mines in the middle of nowhere (unless you can find some, you seem to be good at that). I also can't believe Goldstrike Mine doesn't have a page, looks like I know where I am going after I finish this.--kelapstick (talk) 23:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I was following you rdiligent work and impressive progress on that one. The mining business is quite interesting to me. As with agriculture we seem to have lost touch with where things come from. But when the prices spike or there are shortages people sit up and take notice. The mining throughout the "west" is an interesting historical phenomenon. I enjoyed David Lamb's One Man's West detailing the various jobs and the immigrant groups that carried them out in one corner of the business at one time. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

You have mail

Hello, ChildofMidnight. You have new messages at Whpq's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Message received. I've put Mies, Dr. in charge of archiving all of the citations I use. TIA ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh

What fun! But I think it's getting quite late there, so perhaps more excitement will have to wait until tomorrow. By the way I notice that you Europeans are always getting upset that we are making things up and attributing them to you (Swedish Fish, Swiss cheese, Belgian waffles, French fries) and then when we go back to ignoring you, you resent that too. We just can't seem to win. What is the difference between winegums and gummies? What is an elefat? I think I'm becoming one. Too much time on Wikipedia eating nachos. And why are the words Hungary and hungry so similar? Is there a relation??? And if so, why aren't there more Hungarian restaurants?

Poor you. Poor us, Europeans who are always getting upset. But you Americans are also making things up, like miniature Komondor dogs which look like a Basset hounds. Especially at the Wesminster dog show.. What is the difference between winegums and gummies? This thing has also bothered me alot lately, do you have an answer? An elefat is an elefant but more translucent and and pink coloured. Stop eating nachos, and eat some Swedish Fish instead.:) Very healty... So you do not became a Hungarian, hungry

Warrington (talk) 23:35, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's a dog eat dog world, or so I'm told. A lot of dark meat I imagine, but must taste a bit like chicken. Given all the controversy you spark I'm surprised you haven't weighed in at the Korean cuisine debate over the merits of you know what as a source of meat.

I never really cared for Ghoulash. But someday I am sure there will be nouvelle Hungarian cuisine just like what that Samuelsson fellow at Aquavit in NYC has done for contemporary Swedish cuisine. Who knew that lutefisk was a delicacy worth spreading the news about... Next thing you know there will be Slavink places on every corner.

ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Needless to say I leave the eating of foam to the gourmands like Drmies. I'm more a steak and eggs kind of person. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

People are not telling you the truth, dogs never eat other dogs. I don’t care much about goulas myself either, but try paprikash and Fatanyéros. Hungarian cuisine is worth discovering, lutefisk... well... hm

Warrington (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

BBQ? Barbecue? Grilling? Fatanyéros? Yes many names for this, and all of them taste good. Do they have Weber grills in Europa? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Bless you my Child... Warrington (talk) 18:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC) -

See also Great Dane

A Great Dane

In the ratio between length and height, the Great Dane should be square. The male shall not be less than 30 inches (75 cm) at the shoulders, but it is preferable that he be 32 inches or more (>80 cm), providing he is well proportioned to his height. The female shall not be less than 28 inches (70 cm) at the shoulders, but it is preferable that she be 30 inches or more (>75 cm), providing she is well proportioned to her height. Danes under minimum height must be disqualified.

Warrington (talk) 20:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC) [[|thumb|230px|left| A diminutive Komondor dog]]

Now, a Komondor which is almost as big as the Great Dane, (average 30 inches) than is this picture really a good one on a Komondor?

this one is much better in that case

• Komondor pictures (Hungarian)

The Komondors appearance is dignified and commands respect. [5] The average females are 27 1/2 inches (70 cm)[6][7] at the withers, male Komondor are 31 1/2 inches (80 cm) [8] at the withers, making this one of the larger breed of dog. Females should be be minimum 25.5 inches[9] (65cm)[10] at the withers, and males a minimum of 27.5 inches[11] (70cm)[12] at the withers, height below the minimum is a fault. Males are generally between 50 - 60 kg or 110 - 132 lb[13] females 40 - 50 kg or 88 - 110 lb[14] at maturity. The body, seen sideways, forms a prone rectangle [15] Diversion from lower height limit as mentioned in the standard is a fault [16] The standard has not changed its general guidelines.

however, people unfamiliar with the breed are often surprised by how quick and agile the dogs are. According to the American breed standard,.[17] the body[18] may be slightly longer than the height at the withers.

One can not write an encyclopaedia and only present the minimum hight of a dog breed, that is a misconception, especially when so bad pictures are around - it will only mess up things even more. Average hight is indeed necessary.

BTW he removed average hight AGAIN.

Warrington (talk) 21:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC).

These are also good pictures, are they free? http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/komondor.aspx

Warrington (talk) 21:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Shoot. I may need a break from inches and pounds.

Warrington (talk) 22:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Chicken Fried Bacon another winner.

Congratulations! Chicken Fried Bacon also made it to Wikipedia:DYKSTATS! Why can't any of my DYKs end up there.....? Cheers! Scapler (talk) 02:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Another championship DYK hook. My dearest Scapler, some day you may work on subject matter that is important enough to evoke this level of interest. But you can't just stroll into Wikipedia and kick out all-time championship hooks one after another. It takes training. Focus. And bacon. And of course there's the fact that I didn't come up with any of those hooks. But aside from those details I am happy to accept full credit. Do I get to make a speech? Wait is this my speech? How do I start over? I want to thank my fans. Oscar Meyer. Clams casino. The BLT. Eggs. The state of Texas. Everyone who makes deep frying possible. The South. And everywhere that sweet tea is available. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it does seem that bacon does it...hmm........ But you cannot tell me that bacon is more important than an historical topic like the Middle Colonies, which I hope to have to a quality worthy of GA status soon, hope I can get there. Keep on adding awesome bacon related articles! Cheers! Scapler (talk) 03:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Middle what? Let me know when you figure out if Connecticut is in or out. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

It's not, that was a mistake that someone had left and I had unfortunately failed to correct. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 11:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your tweaks, and the see also section! If you wouldn't mind, would you look over the rest of the article and tell me what else you think it needs before I have it to GA status? Cheers! Scapler (talk) 21:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Tomorrow will be a bacon-free day for me, after five days straight. I'm actually looking forward to it. Child, there's always a jug of sweet tea in our fridge for you. Scapler, I had a look at your Middle Colonies article--that's some gourmet s**t, man! It's, like, encyclopedic, with facts an all. Good luck with it! Drmies (talk) 02:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Your tag

You tagged sourced content as "dubious." This content is taken almost word-for-word from the original source: [29]. You are not using the tag incorrectly. The wikipedia guidelines regarding the tag can be found at Wikipedia:Disputed_statement.

Regarding the comprehensibility of the statement, I found the author's writing to be quite clear. The concept is not the simplest one, however. If you are not able to understand it, it is perhaps because you are not familiar with Buddhist concepts in general. The concept of mental conditioning, which is linked to from View (Buddhism), is involved with the concept of "View." So if you are not familiar with the former then you may have trouble understanding the latter. Mitsube (talk) 23:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I think the problem is that it is taken word for word from the source. This is an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia article does not have the same content as a scholarly paper, or an essay, or an author's work on a particular subject. The article as written is utterly inscrutable. It's not clear from the text exactly what the subect is or why it is notable. The article needs to be clarified and rewritten in plain English using encyclopedic language. If there's a quotation that you think is interesting or informative, use quotation marks, and try to keep it out of the lead paragraph. If I can't understand the article, it's messed up. I'm an expert on all things Buddhist. I was born in a lotus flower.ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back, Padmasambhava. Mitsube (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar! Mitsube (talk) 05:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

A dogs life

The details you mention in this response are far more relevant to an encyclopedia article on a dog breed than the POV statements about its character and handsomeness and all the other gobbledygook that's there now. Can you source these statements? Why isn't it mentioned in the article that it is one of (four?) sheperd dogs native to Hungary?

Thanks for your compliments, I did not wrote the article. Why aren’´tt they there? One of them was there but our friend has removed it. I have enough problems to keep the dogs size on a NPOV level. If you want you can add all of them... Since when is Michael Jackson a businessman? What a stupid idea! Maybe a business-artist, but that is an entirely different thing. (selling yourself)

Did I told you that I am an amateur buddist?:))

Warrington (talk) 15:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Acctually, They all worked with sheeps, but strictly, the Kondor is a livestock gardian dog, like the Kuvasz, the other small vigurous barking things are herding dogs (keeping the sheeps together and direct them where the sheperd wanted them, the sheperd was not able to run all day around the sheeps like a mad man:) ), but the small ones they were certainly guarding the sheeps too, but what could they do when a woolf or a bear would come? They would became sandwich food for them. That is why the Komondor and the Kuvasz was employed, The Komondor (or several Komondors if the there was a large amount livestock) were guarding the sheep or cattle mostly at night, while the Puli was herding and guarding them at daytime. When wolves or bears was attacking the livestock, the Puli will alert and the Komondors would come and fight the intruders. The Komondors were usually resting at daytime but at night will walk around the flock, constantly moving, patrolling the area. Nomadic shepherds of the Hungarian plains valued their herding dogs, paying as much as a year's salary for a Puli or a Pumi or a komondor. Otherwise they would have to run around the sheeps themselfes and could not get a good nigt sleep in the evning. .That is why the small ones bark but the Komondor is silent, they attack silently.

Warrington (talk) 16:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

M is a manager,

and tell me why on earth would anybody remove this (referenced) edit?????

No upper heigt limit is given.

from the Komondor article of course, where else from. And give me a varning for it? this is insane.

Warrington (talk) 20:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Which animal am I? Thanks for my first star.

Warrington (talk) 21:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Awesome picture!

How nice you upload the fresh picture! Thanks.--Caspian blue 05:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:Photos

Point three, "Where did it come from?". In any case, that's not a policy page, that's the upload page- you can't list all image rules and by-rules there, just the same as you can't list all editing guidelines and policies when someone clicks "edit this page". If images do not provide source information, or if the licensing information cannot be verified, then the images will be deleted under the speedy deletion criteria. As the two images I managed to find a source for where licensed incorrectly (and one of them was even non-free) I think it is doubly important that you provide information making the licensing easily verifiable. J Milburn (talk) 10:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, ummmm that's why I put Flikr and the name of the account that uploaded the photo. Maybe making the directions clear would help. ChildofMidnight (talk) 10:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe checking the licensing of images before you upload them would help. "Say where you got it from" seems quite clear to me- include a link. As I say, including every detail about image uploading in that box would be counter-productive, as no one would read it. J Milburn (talk) 10:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Could you please add sourcing information to the other Flickr images you've uploaded without providing an URL? If there isn't a source, they'll eventually find themselves deleted... J Milburn (talk) 10:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

It says to include where you found the image- to the vast majority of people, that means "link to the website you found it on", but, apparently, not for you. We cannot include all applicable guidelines on the upload form, just as we cannot have all editing guidelines on the edit page. If you believe the wording should be changed, you're welcome to raise the matter on MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext. J Milburn (talk) 17:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

You're the one who believes something needs fixing. As I have said, you are welcome to raise the matter at MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext. J Milburn (talk) 17:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and this is the reason your descriptions simply aren't good enough to verify the licensing of the image. J Milburn (talk) 17:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

If I'm quite honest, I don't care what those instructions do or do not say. I'm working from policy. If we are unable to verify the licensing of the images, then they will have to be deleted. I have searched for the links for some of the images, but as I can now see that you have absolutely no intention of clearing up your own mess, I'm just going to nominate them for deletion. Either you clean them up, or they are deleted. We can't have a tonne of images that may or may not be free, and may or may not be correctly attributed, sitting around on our servers. J Milburn (talk) 18:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The source for all the images I've uploaded is provided. Please cease harassing me. Thank you. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Harrassing you? Please cease uploading non-free images as free, please start providing the source of the images you upload, and please stop wasting my time. J Milburn (talk) 18:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Every image I've uploaded states the source. The image you say I uploaded that wasn't free was creative commons licensed. Please stop harassing me. If you have an issue with me you're welcome to take it to ANI. Good luck with that. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey sorry to butt in, but the admin, J Milburn (I've seen him on WP:FP) is just doing his job based on our image policy and copyright law. I think you are not that familiar with image policies that could make you feel frustration. However, the sculpture can not be usable as "PD-self" unless you get a direct permission from the artist because U.S. law only permits panorama for buildings only (see Commons:Commons:Freedom of panorama#United_States--Caspian blue 18:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

An interesting point Casp and your input is always welcome with me. As the work photographed is landscape architecture I think it falls under the building category. Do you think that the photographs of the Vietnam War memorial need to be removed because it is a work of art/ sculpture and there is no explicit permission from the artist? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm.. I think you need to do because if the work was permanently exhibited in Vietnam (Commons:Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#Vietnam), the usage of the image on Wiki would be okay, but not in U.S. That's why we can't upload piccaso's sculpture exhibited on streets of the States. Besides, the work is an "art" exhibition not a part of the building.--Caspian blue 18:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

And J Milburn, I found eprater's site http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Maya%20Lin&w=21729155%40N00 The Flickr search tool does not work (another method is necessary) The photograher indeed releases his/her images under CC-BY, but those still falls under the fair use images.--Caspian blue 18:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

If that's the case then the photos for Richard Serra need to be removed. Also all images of the Vietnam War memorial unless there is evidence that Maya Lin has released copyright status. Etc. I think this is a mistaken interpretation of the copyright status of these works, but as you point out I am not an expert. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

In case for Richard Serra's work, that's fine because those are not exhibited in U.S ;-) (UK, Netherland, Germany, Spain are good to expose art works in public spaces)--18:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't personally have an opinion either way regarding the fair use/free use sculpture debate. However, ChildofMidnight, I still find your refusal to source these images problematic- as I looked through your upload log, I found more images that were tagged with poor licensing (admittedly, some of them did have sources, but my point is that it is easy to make a mistake with licensing). I don't expect to be loved, so you're welcome to harbour a hatred for me as the Evil Policy Enforcer, but please do start to have a little more respect for our image guidelines- if you continue to refuse to source images when you upload them, I will consider taking this further. J Milburn (talk) 18:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't hate you. But if someone wants links to the individual webpage sources (and not just the sites) for uploaded images, that should be stated in the intructions. I don't consider that radical or aggresive. As I stated I'm happy to try and remember to do so in the future, but as I've noted I followed the instructions and included the source of all the images I uploaded. So if you have a problem with the way I did it, your efforts be best directed to revising the instructions so they are clear. Similarly, Flikr creative commons licensing is all 2.0. This is not an option on Wikipedia when photos are uploaded. Perhaps a bot could be assigned to relicense all the images uploded from Flikr, I don't know. But if you want 2.0 distinguished from 3.0, you would be well served to have it offered as an option. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:39, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons actually has far more options, and is much more streamlined for uploading Flickr images. Also, there is a bot that verifies the licensing- it may be best to upload there in future (though, if I'm honest, I don't really like Commons, so I don't usually upload there myself). J Milburn (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I can't even figure out how to display images from Commons on English Wikipedia. And I don't quite understand why all photos uploaded here don't get uploaded there automatically. It takes all my efforts just to keep your and you're, and its and it's clearly distinct (and I often slip), so it's more than I can yet muster to fathom all these protocls and procedures. I had to add a link to the photo upload page on my user page because it's difficult for to find the page. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I can appreciate it's difficult. However, if you are aware you struggle, perhaps you should be more open to advice from others. The upload link is in the toolbox (below the search bar on the left hand side of the page) and you treat Commons images as just the same as those on the English Wikipedia- if I upload a file at Commons and call it "Lactarius quietus, Cumbria" then I just add [[Image:Lactarius quietus, Cumbria|thumb|right|''Lactarius quietus'', [[Cumbria]], [[England]].]] to the article. It's the other way around- rather than images you upload here being automatically uploaded to Commons, anything you upload to Commons is effectively already uploaded here. J Milburn (talk) 19:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

<outdent>I'm pretty sure this photograph is on Commons

, but it doesn't show up here. What am I doing wrong?

I am much better at giving advice than receiving it. Also, if someone says to me, "Child, please include a link to the photo source for images you upload", as opposed to telling me I'm uploading photos wrong when all I did was follow the directions, I am more likely to respond in a cooperative manner. As with the sculpture photo issue, there are lots of grey areas and interpretations of policy. So if people want something done a certain way its best to spell it out rather than leave people guessing. My New Year's resolution will be to become better at taking criticism. But January is a long way off. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:03, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

		The Resilient Barnstar
		For ChildofMidnight, as my way of saying thankyou for listening to my advice, and as my way of saying sorry for coming down on you so hard. I do realise you're a good contributor. We all find some things difficult. J Milburn (talk) 20:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

As for your question- I couldn't actually find an image on Wikimedia Commons by that name. Sure you're spelling it right? J Milburn (talk) 20:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

It appears I somehow didn't copy the complete name of the image. It works just fine now that I fixed it. How wonderful! I'd much rather use commons images than deal with uploading them. I think I will try to upload to Comomons in the future. What don't you like about it over there? I appreciated that you fixed (clarified?) the licensing on the photos I uploaded and added links. It definitely makes sense that verifying is made easier when this is done and I think it should be stated in the instructions. I had meant to give you a barnstar for your efforts. People who walk the walk deserve credit. But you not only beat me to it, but proved to be the better man (at least in this case) for your follow through and good will even to those who are difficult. Kudos. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:32, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Seems that we've both got something out of this discussion! I just don't like Commons because I'm more familiar with the English Wikipedia, I suppose. I also find their deletion processes a lot slower than ours, which annoys me when I'm trying to chase up copyvios! I think it's just different, and I prefer sticking to what I know, which is here. J Milburn (talk) 21:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)