User talk:Bencherlite/Archive 7

Taliesin

I've added a bit more bio info with ref and citation. ~Geaugagrrl ^talk 17:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Light blue "educational establishments"

You, I've seen you editing on the wrong side of the river... Explain yourself... You fancy help keep this nonsensical list featured? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Some question, if you don't mind...

I got your recent message a few minutes ago. It raised a couple of questions for me.

I am not the only person who edited the article. But, without claiming to be an expert in intellectual property law, I believe some edits do not constitute contributions of intellectual property:

1. corrections to spelling, grammar or punctuation;
2. adding or removing references;
3. adding of removing wikipedia editorial tags.

Relatively early in my wikipedia career I started an article that generated a lot of interest, and drew a lot of contributors. It also drew the ire of User:Zoe, who promptly nominated it for deletion. Nineteen of the contributors to that {{afd}} voiced keep opinions. The one contributor who voiced a delete opinion stalled all progress on that article for three weeks, by blanking the page, claiming authority to do so by claiming the article was a copyright violation.

I am not a lawyer. Most of my amateur understanding of intellectual property law dates to my attempt to get that article unstalled from the morass of {{copyvio}} quicksand. I stand open to correction, but based on my amateur understanding of SCOTUS Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's opinion in Feist v. Rural, one hundred, or one million typographical corrections would not constitute an intellectual contribution. Similarly, based on her opinion in Feist v. Rural, "facts" can't be copyrighted, so the addition of references doesn't constitute an intellectual contribution.

So, I think I remain the sole author of the intellectual contributions to that article.

You used the phrase "long-standing articles or quality articles not created by mistake". If I understood you, these would be exceptions to G7, correct? I searched for the phrase in WP:CSD, and couldn't find it. Is this phrase from another policy or guideline?

So, if the article had been nominated for deletion by somebody else, and had been deleted, I could have asked the deleting administrator to userify it for me, to see if I could either improve it, or cannibalize portions of it to put in other articles, correct?

I only meant to ask one question, but additional ones occurred to me. Please forgive the length of this query.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I got your latest. [1]

Let me set your mind at ease about one thing. It is not my intention to rescind the liscense to any of my contributions. I moved this article to user space after a bunch of other articles, all on lawyers who had volunteered to work on behalf of Guantanamo captives, were all nominated for deletion, all at once.

You suggested I move back any other articles I moved from article space. I'd like you to know I didn't do these moves without discussing this with other users. I asked for advice on Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion

And I discussed moving articles like the Harry Schneider from article sppace with the nominator. They had nominated ten articles for deletion on March 9th. And I was online on March 10th, when they started nominating another batch. I asked the nominator to pause in their nominations. I acknowledged an innocent lapse into a kind of tunnel vision, where I created articles without anticipating they were unlikely to survive an {{afd}}. I suggested I could save a lot of wasted efforts if I removed from article space any articles I didn't think would survive an {{afd}}, and which I remained the sole contributor of intellectual content. My intention was not to rescind my liscense, but to prevent wasting everyone's time on {{afd}} likely to be a foregone conclusion.

I did take the advice I received on Wikipedia talk:Articles for Deletion, after leaving an acknowledgment of my lapse in judgment in each {{afd}} I moved some of the nominated articles to user space. I didn't do that if I wasn't the sole author, or if I thought they would survive their {{afd}}.

Would you mind offering me your opinion as to whether you think the Harry Schneider article should survive an {{afd}} in its current state? Geo Swan (talk) 11:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. FWIW, like you, both of the nominators from last month bout of nominations are also lawyers, in real life.

I am struggling to keep from asking you for some advice, or sharing some of the more interesting aspects of the controversy over this material.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 13:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Here is a recent report [2] Geo Swan (talk) 14:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Publishers

See question at USMA FLC. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Writing 312+ biographies to ensure comprehensive coverage of the alumni of Jesus College is a real labour of love. It's truly gobsmacking. It shows that you are editing not simply for merit badges (like the one I'm now giving you!) or shiny stars, but because you truly care about what you are working on, and you want to make sure it is covered in depth and in great quality - and that makes you the best type of editor on this Wiki. A fully deserved barnstar then! rst20xx (talk) 15:55, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford)

Whoops, I completely forgot about that; my apologies. I'll leave some comments on the talk page straight away. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 13:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's looking pretty good. I read through the article, and quite honestly, I couldn't find anything to fault. Excellent work. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declines

Can you tell me what exception to WP:CSD#C1 applies when you declined these speedy deletion requests? [3] [4] The criteria says "Unpopulated categories that have been unpopulated for at least four days. This does not apply to disambiguation categories, category redirects, featured topics categories, categories under discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for Discussion (or other such discussions), or project categories that by their nature may become empty on occasion (e.g. Category:Wikipedians looking for help)." These categories I tagged did not meet one of these exceptions from what I can see. "No point in deleting and requiring recreation later" are not excemptions to this criteria (and I would maintain that there is in fact a "point" to delete these- Wikipedia wouldn't have come up with the speedy deletion criteria if they didn't want pages that met them deleted). I'll be watching this page if you want to reply here. 70.150.94.194 (talk) 15:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The WP:IAR exception. They are clearly categories that will be used in the not-too-distant future (I might have more of an issue with similar categories for 2015, for example) and it would be a waste of time to delete and recreate. The categories do no harm in the meantime. If you still disagree, then start a discussion at WT:CSD. Regards, Bencherlite^Talk 15:49, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:Happy now?!

Oh, absolutely. Truth be told it pleases me also :D rst20xx (talk) 02:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

St Mary Magdalene, Taunton

I took the quote from Taunton & Somerset towers where I think it was added by User:Celiakozlowski - feel free to change it & I will withdraw the DYK nom.— Rod ^talk 08:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Gold medallist star-gazers

Thanks for the message - I just saw the CfD and commented there. When I saw him adding the cat I thought "That's a good cat!", and had a look to see who was in it, noticed one not properly defaultsorted, went to sort that, and noticed he was already in the older cat. The page about the Gold Medal did not have a link to the existing cat on it, which can make it hard for readers and editors to know it exists. DuncanHill (talk) 16:50, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: DYK Article Length

That is my mistake. I misread WP:DYK and took it to mean words. I apologize. Is the byte count representative of characters? As in, 6000 bytes is 6000 characters? Or is there some other relationship I should be aware of. Again, my apologies for the mistake, thank you for pointing it out to me. CanadianNine 00:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I noticed how complicated it was when I started looking at the next update process! I don't understand that at all, but I'll work on it :P Anyways, I do use dr. pda's script, but it only gives me a word readout on readable prose size. Am I missing something? CanadianNine 00:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Alright, thanks a lot for the advice! I've found that editors on Wikipedia are a lot more understanding and helpful than I anticipated. Thanks again, CanadianNine 00:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

What about Deforestation in Sri Lanka? I've also proposed Blanca Olmedo on April 13 or 14 but nobody as ticked it yet. Could you see to it? Thansk Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar 2

How do you get a barnstar?66.72.200.177 (talk) 11:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Can you take a look

I noticed you are active right now. Could you take a quick look at Special:Contributions/Pembroke_Castle. I think there is some potential in there but in the current state a lot will be deleted. Agathoclea (talk) 12:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Pembrokeshire Railway

FYI: I just found this on neyland.org.uk

Railways of Pembrokeshire
Kevin Robertson Books
amazonlink

Agathoclea (talk) 20:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually I am seriously tempted - or as I just found my library card again I might convince the local library to get a copy - as it is a book about the locality. Agathoclea (talk) 21:30, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

In the light of the above I just activated class=redir by copying {{WikiProject Wales/class}} from WP:Germany. It might have a sideeffect or two but so far the missing redir is the only difference between the two I saw. Agathoclea (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Ælfheah of Canterbury

		The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		Thank you so much for your anti-vandalism efforts while poor Ælfheah of Canterbury was on the main page! May an obscure little Anglo-Saxon bishop and saint bless you. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppets

Hi, You may be interested in this report I just filed as you blocked one party. Thanks, Verbal chat 11:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

er, I meant to add: Wikipedia:SPI#Dr._Tariq_Nayfeh Sorry. Verbal chat 11:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

You've probably got more expertise at this than I have, but Dr._Tariq_Nayfeh appears to also be DeLaughterDo. He was warned repeatedly about vandalizing Emergency Medical Services and then blocked over this past week, but the vandalism (same type of content deletion...identified the same way) has continued; this time from an IP number. That IP was traced to Chicago O'Hare Airport. Whoever this person is...he is certainly going to a LOT of trouble to do something that is completely pointless. I don't know what to suggest, and I'm hoping that you might have some ideas as to how to stop this person.Emrgmgmtca (talk) 10:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

List of Washington & Jefferson College alumni

Hello, I was wondering if you could take a glance at List of Washington & Jefferson College alumni and see if you think it could pass as an FL. If not, what else would one have to do to get it passed? Thanks.--Jwilkinsen Jr (talk) 06:32, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Note

Note that Laurence Boyce is a sock-puppet of Richard Dawkins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 08:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Deleted railway-related articles

Thankyou for my first ever Barnstar! I apologise for taking a week to reply. A friend came and stayed with me so I have been busy being a good host.

I had worked on articles for three stations on the Watlington and Princes Risborough Railway and I was hoping someone would create the article for the whole line. Saving the article was a handful, but satisfying. :o)

Most of the other articles that Pembroke Castle has contributed are outside my area of knowledge. However, I now see that Pembroke Castle created an article on Hook Norton Ironstone Partnership Ltd. the following day and this was challenged and deleted before I knew about it. I will ask Bruern Crossing, who knows about all the ironstone quarries around Hook Norton, if anything can be done to provide better content to get the Hook Norton Ironstone Partnership Ltd. article restored. Motacilla (talk) 11:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Harrison Oxley

On May 7, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Harrison Oxley, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Awadewit (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Gavin Mezies

Hi, I'm finally going to take you up o the tffer you once made about sources about barristers. Could you cast your eye over talk:Gavin Menzies - it's bit too complicated to give much of a precis here, but he's the author of two books claiming taht the Chinese explored far more widely than previously thought. Beofre his recent writing career he was a naval officer, and during long hours on nuclear subamrines, seems to have apssed his bar exams. I found a Times report of him passing the Roman Law exam, and the 1969 Navy List describes him as Barrister-at-law in addition to his naval rank and so on. HM Court Serivces web site also seems to show that he's been declared a vexatious litigant. The Tiems report suggest he was Inner Temple, can you provide any (third party) reliable sources to show his bar call, and any subsequent practice as a barrister, and any third party reports of the stuff about being a vexatious litigant? David Underdown (talk) 14:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

JCBC FA

Grrrrreat work. I'll try my best to get to your clergy FLC as soon as real life allows. All the best. The Rambling Man (talk), 19:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Robert Perkins (entomologist)

Hi. Today I discovered that on 11 November 2008, you created a duplicate article of Robert Cyril Layton Perkins, an article that was created on 19 November 2007. The article you created is named Robert Perkins (entomologist). I think the older article is appropriately named, as Perkins is often referred to with his full name in the literature; also, considering that Robert Perkins is already taken, the original title works. Since you are an administrator, could you please merge your work into the original article (along with the page history) and then delete Robert Perkins (entomologist)? I'll go ahead and tag the articles just to keep everyone on their toes. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 12:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

Bencherlite, Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Dailybooth

Just wanted to say hi - saw your comment on Passportguy's talk page. I forgot the password to this account long ago, and usually edit from my raw IP when at school. Thanks for the lack of ban... was trying to whip something into shape for that article, but honestly I don't think it's going to work until the service gets a bit bigger. Regards! Refreshingapathy (talk) 06:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

SUL Request

Thanks for reminding me! Seems it worked out well. Hallabro (talk) 11:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Fraser Clark

I would like to edit this page to correct the obvious oversight regarding significance. Fraser Clark has been called variously, the Columbus of Rave Culture and Tim Leary of the E generation. Whatever one might think of the shamanic explorer, publisher, record producer and brains behind Megatripolis he contributed an enormous amount in a variety of fields. There is a bio at http://www.matrixmasters.com/pn/speakers/FraserClark-bio.html Please therefore undelete the page.Ethnopunk (talk) 16:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for protecting those pages for me. They tend to attract socks of Bambifan. Cactusjump (talk) 19:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Tessa Munt Article.

Hi,

You recently blocked the editing of a new article that I was creating on Tessa Munt because I was using the markup from another article as a template.

Why won't you let me finish the article before deciding that it breaches copyright?!

Matt —Preceding unsigned comment added by SomersetLibDems (talk • contribs) 13:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

dates

D'oh! Thanks for fixing my mistake. :) Esrever ^(klaT) 15:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Jesus College, Oxford & FTC

Congrats on getting your incorrectly coloured college topic up to spec! I noticed that the main article was only GA. What can we do to make it FA? I'd be delighted to help you make this a top trump topic. Give me a shout. And then you can help with the mammoth task of getting Peterhouse up to scratch....! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Request undeletion of $5 Cover

I was about to start a page for $5 Cover appearing on MTV in May of this year when I noticed that a previous article had been deleted by yourself. I'd like you to consider undeleting said article so that I don't have to start from scratch. Thanks. Lojak10111 (talk) 21:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

David Gordon Allen d'Aldecamb Lumsden

Hi. Thanks for improving the article. I am definitely not that familiar with some of the terminology on the other side of the pond. Yours, Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 00:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Ha! I did not know I was a trans-ponder! Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 22:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Hispanic Commonweal

Hello,

I am just wondering why my contribution, regarding a new non-profit organization "Hispanic Commonweal" (Which I am the President) was removed. This is a new organization that focuses on getting out information to the Hispanic communities.

I do not have a lot of time to discuss this matter since I only help organize the Hispanic Commonweal in between my 2 jobs. I am a little upset that this was done and would like a sufficient explanation.

Thank you,

Jesus Rodriguez, President Hispanic Commonweal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elluminati (talk • contribs) 18:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand that you guys are volunteers and that there is a lot of garbage that you guys have to constantly weed out. But to say "the article didn't indicate why the group was important or notable" is absolutely ridiculous.

I stated in the article our mission statement of being an organization that was going to help local Hispanic Communities get the resources and networking that they need in order to live better lives.

If you don't think that that is important or notable you need to get a different hobby.

I sincerely am not trying to be rude and I know that your job is NOT easy. So if you would personally help me get the appropriate format and get our organization in Wikipedia I would appreciate it.

I am also volunteering my time and thousands of dollars to get this organization in the public eye so that we can start making a difference one Hispanic family at a time.

You seem like a reasonable person, just tell me what I need to do.

Thank you,

Jesus Rodriguez

P.S. This is NOT advertising a business, this is making known a worthy cause. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elluminati (talk • contribs) 20:36, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Saint Afan Church, Llanafan

WikiThanks

Dear Bench, thanks for your help with Saint Afan Church, Llanafan. Leave it to you to do Rice Rees, where your Wikistalker has just been. TTFN. ~Geaugagrrl ^talk 03:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Percy William Dodd

Hello Bencherlite

I thought you might be interested to know that Percy William Dodd appears to have died on 20 May 1931. My main source for this is the Calendar of all Grants of Probate and Letters of Administration made in The Probate Registries of The High Court of Justice in England ... 1931 D.E.F.G., p. 128. The actually entry under 'Wills and Administrations, 1931' reads:

 DODD Percy William of 12 Menai-view-terrace Bangor Carnarvon-
   shire died 20 May 1931 Administration (with Will) London
   17 December to Sarah Dodd widow and Edward Ernest Dodd
   schoolmaster.    Effects £6432 7s. 5d.

I believe the Sarah Dodd given here is Percy’s mother, and the Edward Ernest Dodd is one of his three brothers. The other two of course being Charles Harold Dodd and Arthur Herbert Dodd. There is also an entry in the on-line version of The London Gazette for 12 February 1932 with regard to Percy William and his estate and the above, pp, 995-996, which again gives his date of death. Maybe you would do the honours and add the relevant information to the article? Many thanks.

Best regards (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC))

DYK for Thomas Page (engineer)

On June 24, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Page (engineer), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Jamie^☆S93 08:36, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Bot

Could I consult a bureaucrat for an immediate non-controversial name change? ---Scarce |||| You shouldn't have buried me, I'm not dead--- 11:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Usernames

Duly noted, thank you. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 12:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Page protection request for Chuck Monroe

Over on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection you declined to protect the page because you declined to delete it on the basis that there are assertions of importance. However, I fail to see how the page meets any standard on Wikipedia:Notability (people). It also fails to meet Wikipedia:Verifiability as all the only source is the subject's website. Could you reconsider your decision? – Zntrip 00:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You once again denied my request to protect the page in question against creation. You stated that "Pages are not protected pre-emptively", although this seems contrary to Wikipedia:Protection policy which states that "Administrators can also prevent the creation of a page through the protection dialog". In light of this fact, would you consider protecting the page? – Zntrip 05:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. Sometimes I have trouble navigating Wikipedia policy. – Zntrip 17:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Just an update, looks like Ronaldreed created the article again. It's already been tagged for speedy deletion. – Zntrip 05:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Holy mother, is that ever weird...

Thanks for chiming in. I've honestly blocked only new users and I don't understand why this would be happening. I'll unblock the Scooby-Doo articles right away. Thanks again. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 06:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Buildings of Jesus College, Oxford

On June 30, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Buildings of Jesus College, Oxford, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Mifter (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

for helping out at my talk page. :) –Juliancolton | ^Talk 01:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

St Catz

I've thought about following in your footsteps and taking on St Catz but I'm not sure if I really have the time. I've just finished my third year (out of four) and hence have one of those brilliant 3 1/2 month summers stretching out ahead of me but until I work out what I'm going to do with it offline I won't know how much time I can spend online! (I should know soon...) St Catz would certainly merit some kind of article on architecture (all that grade 1 listed stuff ;) and the custom cutlery to go with it, etc.) and despite your earlier quips, in fact it may merit more than one alumni list because you're forgetting St Catherine's Society - and on that note, pre-College history surely deserves an article in its own right, too - rst20xx (talk) 23:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Jesus

Nice article, I replied fully on my page. Giano (talk) 07:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Giano about the need for a plan - I've done a few for WP - see Prince's Palace of Monaco, Scottish Parliament Building, Origins and architecture of the Taj Mahal. If you'd like one doing, please email me any information you have - scanned guides aerial photos etc. Kind regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 11:56, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I've got sufficient information for now - I'll try and sort something before monday. Regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 12:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Jesus College, Oxford

I have conducted a reassessment of this article. I have some concerns which are listed at Talk:Jesus College, Oxford/GA1. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

One flew out of the cuckoo's nest?

Hi Bencherlite, I'd like to draw your attention as an administrator to the edits of a contributor who has stretched the patience of myself and others almost to breaking point. Yesterday the redirect England Government which had been created by Mr Taz was speedily deleted. Today it reappears, the work of the same editor. This is not the first time he has done this with his highly original and misleading redirects (see his Talk page), about 80 of which I had speedily deleted a couple of months back. He also engages in edit wars to reinstate the indefensible, such as "national days" invented by him (see Talk:British Day) etc etc. His latest creations include Flag of Great Britain and Ireland as a redirect to Flag of the United Kingdom. I've got so tired of it that I now tend to let the purely nonsense or illiterate redirects such as Regional Development Agency for the Yorkshire and the Humber ‎ (redirected to Yorkshire Forward) pass by as I just don't have the time to keep up with it all. Indeed, I might ask just why I should have to do so, not being an admin here and usually having better things to do. Other recent POV (not sure exactly what it is!) redirects include Great British Central Bank ‎and Great Britain Central Bank ‎ (redirected to Bank of England), which for some reason were declined as speedies, although the admin, DGG, sympathised (see his Talk page). I should add that these redirects, together with minor edits, are all that he "contributes" here. He just will not listen to reason. Something needs to be done about this; all he is doing is creating work for others who have to deal with his edits (God knows I'm not the only one!). Could you please look into this - and bear in mind that much of the worst has been deleted so isn't on his contributions log - and perhaps bring it to the attention of other admins here as well, to keep an eye on the situation? There's a bureaucratic route such as Afd which I could take, but I just don't have the time here to do that on a regular basis. Diolch, Enaidmawr (talk) 21:44, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussion started here. Your input would be appreciated. Regards, Enaidmawr (talk) 17:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Buildings of Jesus College, Oxford

Wow, like that enormously. Will you let me know if you need a PR or FAC comments? The Rambling Man (talk) 14:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Fellow's Garden, Fellow's Landing Strip.. whatever next. I'll happily pluck it from GAN gloom if you like. Let me know. Otherwise I can save my pearls of wisdom for a higher calling. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Architectural expert would do a better job than me any day! Anyway, heading back to FLC, there's a rather nice List of Turner Prize winners and nominees waiting around looking lonely. And I should (hopefully) have Mercury Prize over there shortly (well, in a few days...) - keep your eyes peeled, any suggestions, support etc gratefully accepted. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

You asked about getting photographs; I'm around and in Brasenose most lunch times so could take some for you. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 20:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Might also be some opportunities during the Open Days on 1-2 July (details). - Pointillist (talk) 07:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

For others, yes, but I'll be busy running my own open days at Brasenose and Physics! Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I was thinking of Bencherlite in that context. Some day I will rent a perspective control lens and try my hand at college architecture, but I can imagine how difficult it is to avoid having people in shot, especially on open days. Good luck with yours. - Pointillist (talk) 09:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

As an Old Member, there's no difficulty in me visiting even outside normal opening hours, if I recall correctly. It's more that I live in London and can't easily get to Oxford just to take a few photos (plus my wife might wonder what I was doing...) Can't quite believe it's 19 years since I was traipsing round the colleges on open days. (BNC was my second choice, Dr Jones may like to know!) Bencherlite^Talk 10:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

On an almost completely unrelated matter, do you have your own copy of "Oxford Rowing: A History of Boat-Racing at Oxford from the Earliest Times" (your source for File:1822 Oxford Eights.jpg) or have you found it at a London library? It looks as though the Brasenose College Boat Club article needs some help. You did a magnificent job on Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford), BTW. - Pointillist (talk) 12:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in this process; I have tried on several occasions but Jesus has been closed almost every day this week, due to a mixture of power cuts, open days and gaudies. I spoke to the porter this afternoon and he says there are no scheduled closures after this Sunday, so I will try again next week. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 13:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I have finally managed to get in but (1) it was pouring with rain, and (2) there are major building works in second quad, and tourists are not being allowed beyond the hall. Anyway I got some vague photos of the chapel and the hall which I have put at my web page [5]. If any of these are any good let me know and I will upload them; more sensibly you might be able to use them to guide me further in what you want. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 14:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Had another go today: slightly better light and fewer tourists. Pictures at [6]. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Four pictures uploaded as you requested; you can find them in a gallery on my home page. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 15:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Rodw

Thanks for asking me to take a look at Buildings of Jesus College, Oxford - sorry its been a few days as I've been at Glastonbury Festival. The article is looking good & I'm sure User:Pyrotec will give a fair & thorough review for GA. If you want to take it beyond that ? to FA there are a few things you might want to consider:

• There are a lot of brackets used - would it be possible to reword some of the sentences to incorporate these tangential facts into the flowing prose? I would suggest asking a prose expert such as User:Malleus Fatuorum to polish the prose.
• There are some long sentences which could be split to make them easier to read (I am frequently criticised for just this problem), eg. The foundation charter of the college, issued by Elizabeth I on 27 June 1571 upon the petition of Hugh Price (Treasurer of St David's Cathedral), gave to the college the site and buildings of White Hall, one of a number of university halls located between the present-day Market Street (on the south of the site) and Ship Street (on the north of the site).
• For FA there are some claims which will require additional citations eg "Little White Hall being owed by Osney Abbey". "There is a college tradition, recorded in the college's first book of benefactors in the 17th century, that Elizabeth I gave "all kind of timber" from Shotover and Stow Wood for buildings erected by Price" (this could be criticised as WP:OR)
• What sort of stone are the older buildings made from? we are told some were refaced with Bath Stone - but nothing about the construction materials of others
• I note George Hedgeland is a redlink but others involved in various others involved in building and restoratoion work who do not have articles are not linked - is this because Hedgeland is more notable?
• I had some problems keeping track of the development of the buildings as, within each sub head for different buildings, they weren't always in chronological order - is this deliberate, or follow some pattern? because I couldn't work it out.
• Is it possible to give dimensions for some of the buildings & features eg the hammerbeam roof of the hall as this helps the reader to get an idea of the magnitude of the spaces.
• The interruption caused by the civil war appears in both second quad & fellows library - is this deliberate?
• The church at Bodedern is mentioned several times - what is the significance of this connection?
• I'm not sure about all the conversions from pounds shillings and pence to "current" equivalents - tey could be useful to some readers but could become outdated and interrupt the flow of the text.

Despite all the comments above I feel this is a really well researched and referenced description of the buildings & wish you luck with GA & FA nominations.— Rod ^talk 20:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for this very, very helpful review (and yes I hope to go to FAC in due course with it); my thoughts / explanations:

• I'd already thought that a copy-edit would be good, and Malleus was the name I had in mind, as it happens. I thought that I'd wait until GAN was over.
• Long sentences - tee-hee, I was trying to avoid it being too "choppy" and full of short sentences! A critical look from Malleus or someone similar would help here too.
• "Over time, it seems to have absorbed neighbouring halls, including Little White Hall on Ship Street from about 1450, which was at one time owned by Osney Abbey. By 1571, however, White Hall was either completely or virtually deserted by students, making it possible for Price to secure the site for the new college.[7][8][9] " The three footnotes reference the two sentences together, rather than repeat too many references. Similarly with the bit about the college tradition, recorded in the benefactors' book - it's referenced at the end of the following sentence, since both sentences are based on the same source, and certainly isn't OR (rather puzzled as to how referring to something recorded in a 17th century document could be OR!)
• Type of stone isn't mentioned in the sources such as Pevsner, although the college website has a little mention here which I'll try to work in somewhere.
• George Hedgeland is mentioned in two other articles, so I thought was worth a redlink. I wrote John Chessell Buckler to deredlink him, incidentally.
• My basic thought was that there were two options for writing this - either entirely chronologically, which would then involve jumping around between quadrangles and buildings, or looking at each quad (and within each quad, particular buildings) in turn, which also involves the occasional jump, hopefully to explain, not confuse. If any particular points jar, I'd love to know.
• Alas, none of the sources give dimensions of the buildings - I'd love to know, too!
• Civil war - I'll take a look
• Bodedern is only mentioned twice, as a destination of woodwork from the library and the chapel.
• The template that does the inflation conversions is updated each year, so that's not a problem. As for flow, one possibility I suppose would be to use another footnoting system to shunt the figures out of the article; I can see your point. I do think that they are useful, since I had no idea of comparison of expenses between the centuries until I saw the figures.

Thanks again; I'll put a link to this banter in the GA review so that Pyrotec doesn't have to reinvent the wheel! Bencherlite^Talk 22:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your response & I think the edits you've made subsequently have improved the article. A few more minor comments:

• Why does G. E. Street use abbreviations (twice) - shouldn't it just be George Edmund Street avoiding redirect? The same applies to John Chessell Buckler

• The VCH references to them just use initials, Pevsner mentions "Street" and "JC" Buckler, so I just followed that. A quick Google search shows both the full names and the abbreviations in common use, but I don't feel strongly about it. Bencherlite^Talk

• The claim in the lede that "Eleven parts of the college are listed buildings" is all referenced in the main body but may need a citation

• It would need eleven citations for the eleven separate pages at English Heritage, which seemed like overkill, so I didn't. Bencherlite^Talk

• In the section "Buildings in 1571" there is a comment about "freehold in 1816" which doesn't seem to fit.

• I'll try rewording it, the small point being that Jesus leased the land thereafter but bought it in 1816 (it seemed logical to deal with that here rather than toss it into the chapel section). Could probably be removed without great loss. Bencherlite^Talk

• Who was Richard Gunter?

• No idea, which is why I put "a Richard Gunter". Could probably be removed without great loss. Bencherlite^Talk

• Should Gable be wikilinked?

• Good idea. Bencherlite^Talk

• Who is Tyack?

• An architectural historian at another Oxford college, so I'll add that. (Hmm - just noticed he's written a book on the modern architecture of St John's College, which I might need to buy if I carry on and write more of these!) Bencherlite^Talk

• Should Porters' Lodge be Porters' lodge - I don't think lodge needs to be capitalised

• It generally is by the college, but I'll have a think. Bencherlite^Talk

• Sir Nikolaus Pevsner is wikilinked in the lede and in First Quadrangle - I don't have a problem with this but some reviewers do

• My thoughts were that you wikilinked once in the lead and once thereafter, in general, but other views may differ. Bencherlite^Talk

• Grade I is defined in both the lede and First Quadrangle - you don't need both - I would remove the "(the highest grade, for buildings of exceptional interest)" in the lede (also helps remove the number of brackets) or both as readers can get this from listed building.

• As above, plus a brief explanation of whether Grade I or II is the higher grade saves navigating away and the description highlights the importance of the buildings. Bencherlite^Talk

• Gothic is wikilinked to both Gothic architecture and English Gothic architecture in different places which could be confusing for the reader

• And for me, since I'm not knowledgeable about architecture - I'll check why I did this. Bencherlite^Talk

• Should the maker (J. J. Binns) of the 1890's organ in the chapel be included at first mention - it is currently 3/4 paras later?

• Possibly... Bencherlite^Talk

• In chapel we have "moved in 1899 when an organ was installed" and "after the installation of an organ in the ante-chapel at the end of the 19th century" in subsequent paragraphs - are both needed?

• Possibly not... Bencherlite^Talk

• In Chapel we have woodwork going to Bodedern & then "other panelling from Bodedern came from" should this be other panelling at...?

• Yes. Bencherlite^Talk

• Should "Milton stone" be wikilinked as the other types of stone used are?

• Have had a hunt and found that it relates to one in particular of the many Miltons in Oxfordshire, so will add that to the Milton-under-Wychwood article and then link it. Bencherlite^Talk

• I think "Windows that painted with various coats of arms" may be a typo?

• You think correctly. Bencherlite^Talk

• The section on the covering of the hammerbeam roof still confuses me. We have "restoration has not happened" and then (in 2003) part of the roof being revealed.

• I'll try again - the 2003 changes have revealed the roof within the attic rooms above the hall ceiling (as I never went up there pre-changes, I don't know what was covering them before). Bencherlite^Talk

• Why is "Coggan's Garden" so called?

• Don't know. Bencherlite^Talk

• Does buttery need to be wikilinked twice?

• No. Bencherlite^Talk

• "college's rare texts, including a Greek bible signed by Philipp Melanchthon and others (1545)," is it the bible which dates from 1545? - sentence could do with a tweak for clarity

• Good point. Bencherlite^Talk

• In third quadrangle we have a building holding stables in the 18th century & a fire in 1904 - what was it in the 19th century?

• No-one seems to say! Bencherlite^Talk

• We are told about the laboratories closing in 1947 twice.

• Will tweak. Bencherlite^Talk

• Are J. Fryman and Reuben England worth wikilinks?

• No. England didn't make it into "Who's Who" or any other reference work that I've found, and Google hits for each are very low. Bencherlite^Talk

• Should "purple-leaved plum" be wikilinked? & I think guidelines on plants say it should have the latin name in italics

• I'm no gardener, so wouldn't know the correct variety of plum to wikilink (it's not mentioned in the article, AFAICR), plus my understanding was that one shouldn't use wikilinks in quotes. Bencherlite^Talk

• Is there an independent source to cite for the Bastion being a scheduled Ancient monument (eg English Heritage)

• The planning application (pdf) mentions it, so I can add that. Bencherlite^Talk

• I know its not "required" but a sketch plan of the layout of the buildings & streets may aid the readers comprehension of sentences such as "These ran from the north side of the entrance gateway on Turl Street (on the east of the site) south towards the corner of Cheyney Lane (as Market Street was then known) and then west along Cheyney Lane to the buildings of the old Great White Hall."!

• I agree an image would be useful, and have asked at the Help Desk for someone to point me in the right direction for a WP image-creation service. Bencherlite^Talk

Hope these comments are helpful.— Rod ^talk 14:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Very, thanks once more. Bencherlite^Talk 16:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations on the quality of the article (and the GA). I recommend going for WP:FAC; and getting Malleus to look at it before doing so.Pyrotec (talk) 20:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)