Talk:List of footballers with 500 or more goals/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2021

Ronaldo has scored 4 more goals which have not been updated. 2405:201:F00D:9016:F597:6CFA:C3FF:BF80 (talk) 18:15, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — LauritzT (talk) 18:37, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Please see below evidence from the BBC and Guardian for Ronaldo’s last five goals (career number 786-790).

Is this enough now to update the first table?

Goal 790: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58743650

Goal 789: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58533941

Goal 788: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58546274

Goal 786 & 787: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58437003

Goal 786 & 787: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/01/portugal-republic-ireland-world-cup-2022-qualifier-match-report?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other Whiteabbeywords (talk) 17:33, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Are we really going to include 500+ sources for each player? All that's needed is a consistently reliable and regularly updated source. The footballdatabase mentioned in an above section wasn't particularly reliable in my opinion. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:42, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Obviously that would be silly and that’s not what usually happens. I was just making the point that the reason Ronaldo’s goal tally hasn’t been updated for September can’t be due to a lack of reliable sources as LauritzT states. Is there another reason why the first table isn’t being updated? Whiteabbeywords (talk) 11:22, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

The ridiculousness of RSSF and inclusion of friendlies

This list and RSSF is a complete anachronism. Anyone post 1990's doesn't have friendly goals included, and even if they did it would still be an unfair comparison as clubs now play very few friendlies, almost exclusivly pre-season, where as it was a common occurance in the past.

I highly suspect it won't be long till we find out the Helmchen inclusion was based on one troll source. The guy didn't even have a wikipedia page in English or German when he was first included here! RSSF is basically like the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, their heart might be in the right place but its ultimatly amatures in their parent's basement.

Lets look at two inclusions of two English inclusions from the a similar time frame - Dixie Dean and Tommy Lawton. Dean's career was just coming to an end Lawton's was starting (Lawton essentially replaced him at Everton).
Proven League and Cup matches/goals: Dean 489 / 425. Lawton 433 / 260.
RSSF would have us believe: Dean 577 / 531. Lawton 724 / 625.
So Dean was 0.86 ratio striker compared to Lawton a 0.60. But in friendlies the ratio is Dean 1.20 and Lawton 1.25
Are we expected to belive that if Dean played in circa 100 friendies and hit 100 goals that Lawson found time for 300 friendlies and 350 goals? Xenomorph1984 (talk) 20:14, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Football history can't change. One goal is always one goal, football matches are based on this and not to points. And numbers are numbers. These are statistics. Γεώργιος Τερζής 2 (talk) 16:47, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

First of all, RSSSF's list doesn't include friendlies, though they include matches from tournaments that aren't yet recognized as official by FIFA, but they are from the FAs (Football Associations) involved (either with team(s) participated and/or the one(s) organized the event-tournament) and/or from continental confederations, e.g. a tournament may have been recognized as official by UEFA or AFC, et c., but still hasn't been recognized as official by FIFA, and so on...

That said, I personally find the separation of friendly and official matches inadequate, and, as per me, it should be a separation of competitive and non-competitive matches. Then, for this reason, as it matters to the inclusion of friendlies, I firmly believe all friendly matches before 1995 should be considered as competitive, because that was the football reality before 1995:

• "friendly" matches, mainly in tournaments, before 1950 were actually more competitive than the official ones, because it was the only way the teams to play against clubs from other countries, and the players weren't products (like today), i.e. there was no money put on them, so there was no need to be protected in friendlies, as it is after 1995... simply put, if you get the same wage with a baker, you don't care if the match is official or friendly, and it gets competitive when the matches on these "friendly" tournaments against clubs from other countries are the only way your football to be seen outside your country,
• between 1950-1970 official international cups-leagues were established, along with professional leagues in most countries, but those were at best semi-professional, and there was still not money put on football, and there was still no difference between a friendly and an official match in the mindset of people involved, i.e. all clubs would put their best 11 regardless of the status (friendly or official) of the match,
• and now in 1970-1990 a lot of money enters football (advertisements around the fields, TV coverages et c., and leagues are actually starting to become professional, and not only be by name), but still the players don't belong to companies and there is no mindset of footballers protection and no mindset of separation between a friendly and an official match, it's a transitional phase that I believe lasted until 1995,
• following changes regarding football in 1991-1995 (e.g. back-pass rule), changes regarding funding and a lot of money put on football (e.g. before 1990 national team shirts didn't even have names), the fact that there are less tournaments and there are established anymore official international cups, and mainly after Bosman's case, where the market of transfers became free, footballers started to become products (someone owns their shirt, other their shoes, other their socks et c.), and now there is a clear separation between a friendly and an official match, and the difference in the mindset for a separation as well, and footballers, belonging to companies anymore, must be protected... and, like this, friendlies became non-competitive after 1995... Nialarfatem (talk) 20:42, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

So, to conclude, I don't find any ridiculousness at all in a potential inclusion of friendlies, regarding those made before 1995, and I actually think it would be fairer if those were included... Kind regards! Nialarfatem (talk) 20:42, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

What is the reason for excluding goals scored in friendly matches after 1995? Whiteabbeywords (talk) 11:36, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2021

Cristiano Ronaldo’s total for official competitive goals should be 790 not 785. Since the last update (01 September 2021) he has scored five goals. Sources below:

Goal 790: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58743650

Goal 789: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58533941

Goal 788: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58546274

Goal 786 & 787: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58437003 Whiteabbeywords (talk) 11:41, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

why is not possible update the page? why? 80.104.174.36 (talk) 07:23, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Completed. Tintinkien (talk) 13:27, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

 Reverted: This was reverted here (not by me) because the new source (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58743650) did not mention the specific number. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 12:03, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Update IFFHS and RSSSF list?

It seems like we are waiting for an update of the IFFHS and the RSSSF list (for the reliable source(s)). When will this update come? And what are we going to do if the update won't come very often?

Then we would have a page with a reliable source. But it also would be outdaded..

Anyone ideas or answers?? Sportfan82 (talk) 08:16, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

why update only Cr7 ? And the other ? 80.104.174.36 (talk) 05:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

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Pelé asterisk

This should be removed, as Pelé, of course, played for the original New York Cosmos between 1975 and 1977. Culloty82 (talk) 13:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

How many goals did he score for Santos? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:54, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Edits of Carlos Nicolía

Can you please explain the rationale behind your edits, Carlos Nicolía? And please refrain from copying my edit summaries word for word or I will view it as a personal attack. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:29, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I already explained. What about yours? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlos Nicolía (talk • contribs) 17:30, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Well you are failing to apply WP:SOURCE, MOS:CAPSUCCINCT, and MOS:NUMERAL. Your explanations are invalid. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

What about you when you quote outdated sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlos Nicolía (talk • contribs) 22:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Look at literally every comment I've made on this talk page in the last two months, and then kindly please retract your comment. Thanks. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 23:08, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Carlos Nicolía you are yet again making disruptive edits and are failing to discuss it here. Please cooperate to gain a positive resolution to this. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:01, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Crazy idea?

Is it an idea to create a new list with live updates??? Because I got the sense that there are quite a few visitors that just want to see (for instance) the goal(s) that Ronaldo scored last weekend. Or add those goals to the list(s). But there are also visitors who want to have a reliable source (update of the IFFHs and RSSSF list). And now the latest update is still 1 september.

And when you go to View History you see - changes are being made - changes are being made undone (and that goes on and on)

How do we get some consesus???????????

Sportfan82 (talk) 10:42, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

You can't perform live updates without sources. It's that simple. I'm trying to work towards a workable resolution but with little assistance. Your suggestion is commendable but ultimately runs into the same problems. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:03, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response!! And it's that also because this is a different kind of page like (for instance) the list of top international men's footballer goal scorers by country. Because there - you do see the goals that Ronaldo scored yesterday. And you don't mind that you have almost a daily task to keep this page correct?? Seems like annoying work.. Sportfan82 (talk) 07:55, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

For the most part, it's only Ronaldo and Messi that the page creators will have to update, and their data since September 1 can be checked on sites like Soccerway. Culloty82 (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Just adding my thoughts here. For active players the list would be much more useful it it described the current figures rather than 1 September (which are now outdated and therefore incorrect). I don’t think it would be hard for the small number of active players to have the reference/footnote saying [xxx <ref IFFH figure at 1 September 2021> plus xx since 1 September 2021<ref Soccarway>]. That way the totals could be kept as live figures and still be properly referenced. ThanksTracland (talk) 16:50, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

New update on IFFHS website.

IFFHS updated an All-time goalscorers list on their website https://www.iffhs.com/posts/1398 Hulio87 (talk) 10:15, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the update!!! But... Suarez should be (with 509 goals) on position 20.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!

Sportfan82 (talk) 13:11, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

edit request

there is a mistake, luis suarez with 509 goals should be on position 20, not 22. 509 goals > 507 goals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.83 (talk) 11:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Indeed! Sportfan82 (talk) 13:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing, this has been corrected now. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 14:59, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Lewandowski goals

Who keeps changing his amount of goals? At the moment he scored 830 official goals!!! That 8 extra been scored in friendly tournaments in summer pre-season games. I understand we using numbers from RSSSF website but we don’t need to copying stats with mistakes. Kolos made his list and added them but this list was never including them Hulio87 (talk) 22:00, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Lewandowski has 574 career goals. Please adjust. He scored 502 goals for clubs, and 72 international goals for Poland. This is according to his Wikipedia article. All goals scored were for professional senior sides. His tally should be adjusted accordingly.

Aussiejourno (talk) 10:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Besides Tancredi Palmeri, a well known Italian reporter keeps track and had Lewy at 561 last month. 3 shy of Ibrahimovic..

Found on Twitter @tancredipalmeri PeteScania79 (talk) 20:37, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Lewandowski and IFFHS Ranking

Lewandowski scored 508 goals in only top-level competitions. IFFHS made mistake and missed one goal in Polish Cup on central level scored for Znic Pruszkow against Mragowia Mragowo 4:1 in 2006. All the 550 goals scored by Lewandowski in the link below:

http://www.rsssf.com/players/rlewandowskidata.html Hulio87 (talk) 08:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello!

Yes, it's +1 goal from that cup match. I added the above Lewandowski's RSSSF's link as reference next to the reference from IFFHS to back the change.

By the way, even though RSSSF's reference should be enough, the match report from 90minut.pl was also added for the doubting Thomases...

Thanks!

Kind regards! Nialarfatem (talk) 09:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello’

Thanks a lot for adding the link. I made that list of goals for RSSSF and I'm really appreciate for adding link as reference. It means a lot to me cause making it took me a lot of time.

Cheers ! Hulio87 (talk) 09:30, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Just for clarity, the goal was scored in a preliminary match, and, as such, was rightfully not included as a "top level" goal. Therefore I removed it from the quantity. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello!

The IFFHS's ranking counts only goals in top-level competitions and not matches against top-level opponents, and the Polish Cup is, according to them, a top-level competition. Now, if we count the Polish Cup as top-level in its totality, then this should be included, but, if we count it as having a dual level, i.e. the early stages of the Polish Cup aren't top-level, then this preliminary match shouldn't be included. Since it's the IFFHS' ranking and we follow their criteria, what matters is why they didn't include it, so I think the best is to not be included for now and what you could do (@ Hulio87) is email IFFHS about this:

• if this was omitted by mistake, they will respond that they will include it in their next updates,
• if this wasn't included because it was a preliminary match and there was dual level given to the Cups (Polish Cup in this case), they will state that in a response as the reason for no inclusion.

Kind regards!

Nialarfatem (talk) 19:18, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

The Polish Cup is a top level competition. This match wasn't in the Polish Cup. It was a prelim match. Prelim matches aren't part of the actual competition. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 22:48, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

So which round of Polish Cup can be counted as a top level competition which not? The game which I shared with you is preliminary but still that’s main tournament. Games on the regional level are not considered. IFFHS made a mistake and everyone just copying the amount of goals. It's ridiculous… Same is with RSSSF ranking when author counting friendly tournaments goals to the total score… how would you count goals in first qualification rounds of Champions League then? Or FA Cup? Hulio87 (talk) 21:01, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Polish Cup has two levels of tournament. Regional where team from lower leagues playing for qualification to main tournament and general level when we starting with preliminary round, round of 64, round of 32 etc Hulio87 (talk) 21:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello!

Yes, I know, I saw the cup matches categorized as Regional and Central in the RSSSF's page from the link you shared, that's why I thought it should be included. And with what you're explaining makes sense to be included. However, I think, so just to be sure, there should be a communication with IFFHS, so to understand the logic behind that this goal wasn't included, in case it wasn't done by mistake. It could be that IFFHS counts not all preliminary cup matches (of all cups, and not only Polish cup), but also early stages after preliminary rounds as non-top-level competition matches...

Now, regarding your question on CL qualifiers and FA Cup, I must highlight that I am not the one who added the IFFHS's list in the first place. The RSSSF's ranking is enough for me, but, if only top-level scorers should be included, then I think the IFFHS's list should be partially added. It should be about vs top-league opponents matches and not top-level competitions matches, so the matches in their list vs. non top-league clubs should be removed. So, to respond now to your question, if the CL or FA Cup matches you are asking are against non-top-league opponents, then these shouldn't count. An example, which is also a true story: a club is a Cup finalist and gets relegated in the league, so they are in the 2nd league, but they also play in Europe (Europa League) in the next season: the matches against that club in EL shouldn't count as top-level matches, even though these are matches in top-level competitions. Things get complicated if that club reaches far in EL, which could happen, i.e. they could reach the round of 32 or even 16, et c., but I still wouldn't count matches against them as top-level even if they reach the final of EL, because of the initial definition of top-level match = match vs. an opponent who plays in the domestic national top league.

Quoting my response on the matter before: "Yeah, I see what you mean. It's about top-level competitions, and not matches against top-level clubs, which is what I thought it was. I think the latter (matches against top-level opponents) would make more sense if we want to find out the goalscorers in top-level only, because, like it is now, goals against, e.g., a 4th tier club (common in a Brazilian state league, which is considered a top level league, or in a cup) are counted, and these affect the ranking a lot, because we usually see two or more goals from prolific scorers versus "weak" opponents."

Kind regards!

Nialarfatem (talk) 22:36, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

He scored 574 now 502 for club and 72 for country. The 511 figure in the first tally is wrong. Look at his personal profile on Wikipedia. He scored 38 goals in four years, before he signed for Lech Poznan, these goals should be added to his tally. The 511 goals listed in the first ranking is wrong. Aussiejourno (talk) 16:48, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello! First, the IFFHS ranking takes into account only goals scored in the top level (the level refers to the level of the competition, not that of the opponent team), so, in the current IFFHS' ranking he is one goal short (he should have 526 including the cup match described here). None of his other goals was achieved in a top level competition. Secondly, Wikipedia is a user-generated site and for this is considered as one of the most unreliable sources, so his bio article cannot be used as a source, even if it claimed more than 526 goals on top level competitions. Now, I must say you shouldn't worry about IFFHS' ranking at all (I wouldn't if I were you), because it's an unofficial ranking that will always remain unofficial, as FIFA doesn't separate matches as top and non-top level, but as FIFA and non-FIFA, and then the FIFA ones as official and friendly: that said, it's absurd the IFFHS ranking is used as the primary source for listing players who have more than 500 goals in official matches, especially when the last time FIFA published something relative was Bican with 805+ goals (by the way, that was his tally in the RSSSF ranking that had him on top before an update took place on 2020), and, also, because the method IFFHS is using doesn't cover the whole official career of the players in it, which is also absurd. This "list of footballers with 500 or more goals" has anymore on top a journalistic approach and a fan serving one, nothing close to statistics, so better to not give significance on this particular article. With the best intentions. Kind regards! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:04, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Regardless. By the end of this season Lewy will probably be on 11th position on this list. It's a shame that he's been robbed of about 40 goals here and other sites but no one will be able to question his goals nowadays :) PeteScania79 (talk) 20:51, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Lewandowski on IFFHS list

Lewandowski should be on higher position. He already got 519 top level career goals. Can anyone move him in the rank on the list? Thanks in advance Hulio87 (talk) 22:00, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Source? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 00:28, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Mate just check last scores of Polish Team plus count his goals on top level. This is list going to be crap. You need update proper! Don’t ask for source mate Hulio87 (talk) 08:16, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Top level League - 314, National cups - 49, International Club competitions- 82, National Team - 72 Hulio87 (talk) 08:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Should be 517 goals in your criteria for top level competitions Hulio87 (talk) 08:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean "don't ask for source"? You do understand how Wikipedia works, right? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 09:27, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

So explain me then how you updating IFFHS & RSSSF list? Hulio87 (talk) 11:10, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

This issue has already been addressed in the section two above this named live updates; not until there's a reliable source/s found and added. It's that simple. And please use :: to paragraph correctly when responding. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 11:55, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Why you’re making everything twice more difficult than it is? Hulio87 (talk) 13:07, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Since you started putting your hands on that list everything look wrong. Live update was always working. With sometimes smaller or bigger issues but it was. At the moment the list and figures are always behind the actual numbers. As I see you keep trying to tell people how their thinking is wrong and your correct. (Personal attack removed) and start respecting other people ideas. Hulio87 (talk) 13:13, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Look, the onus is on you if you want to make changes to the article beyond what is already sourced, and you will need additional sources to do so. If you can't do that, fine, but please stop doing what, at this point, amounts to vandalising the page. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Hulio87 I agree.

I agree. Besides Tancredi Palmeri, a well known Italian reporter keeps track and had Lewy at 561 last month. 3 shy of Ibrahimovic..

Found on Twitter @tancredipalmeri PeteScania79 (talk) 20:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello! Twitter is not considered a reliable source in WP. Cheers! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 02:52, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Chitalu

Until data is presented for "Chitalu", Nialarfatem, it is purely hypothetical and therefore shouldn't be included in any capacity. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 19:25, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Nialarfatem, the "simple stuff" has been explained to you here already. If there is no proof or data, it's purely hypothetical. Also the caption you added is just poorly phrased, and factually incorrect too seeing as the IFFHS, a statistical organisation, have him first. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:40, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello ItsKesha!

This is exactly why I changed it to 56+1 (and not 57, to which you reverted it) and stated that, if it is to be included, it should be included only in the notes, and not in the list, as it is how it is also stated in the RSSSF's list, the list being the source of all-levels competitions tallies. As I explained in the edit summary already, since Chitalu is mentioned with over 500 goals, there is no doubt there is proof for this, though there are other reasons his data isn't listed in detail, e.g. it may be some of his tallies awaiting confirmation by Zambia's FA or there are numbers that need clarification, but it's obvious there is proof for the 500+ goals, otherwise this wouldn't have been stated in the first place.

P.S. I: By the way, even though the name is not stated, the only Chitalu eligible to have 500+ goals is Godfrey Chitalu at the moment, and that reference in the list is obviously about him, who is, after all, long (years) known to have 500+ goals, but there are hinders related to officialism that delay the confirmation of this...

P.S. II: That said, we could of course even omit mentioning it for now (even in the notes) and there is another reason we could do that, which is that we could wait for the next updates: since the claim exists there, the confirmation data is obviously under the legal confirmation procedures...

Cheers!

Nialarfatem (talk) 18:06, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes we should omit it as I've already said three times. Wikipedia doesn't deal with hypotheticals, we don't include OR and we don't use a crystal ball. Whether it's Godfrey, James, Geoffrey, or Andrei, we don't know 100% which one it is or if he even has 500, and neither does the source that is used. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello! The point is we can't include it as it lacks stats to support the claim, as it doesn't even have a total of goals and appearances, let about detailed stats, not because it's hypothetical: if a trusted as reliable source makes a claim, you can assume good faith, integrity and sensibility (makes no sense to have been mentioned for fun), so we have to give credence (and that is why it could have been mentioned in notes, like it is on the source). Also, all that talk about the name of Chitalu is gibberish, as Godfrey Chitalu is the only one that could be eligible to have scored 500 or more goals. "...neither does the source that is used." - how could you possibly know this? Perhaps you used an oracle or a crystal ball? If there is no ground truth, why would they mention that he has more than 500 goals? So, there has to be some ground truth, but, lacking detailed gathering of the stats, he can't be added for the time being on the list... this is the sense it makes, coming from a reliable source. Thanks! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 03:13, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Youth goals and matches shouldn't count

Why do youth goals and matches count? AmirulMokhris (talk) 04:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

If you read the actual article you will know that RSSSF counts youth goals and matches. SteamingStars (talk) 12:15, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Can't we agree it's an odd decision to include youth goals and matches on this list? Youth goals and matches are generally not included in professional statistics and it would seem sensible to remove these to fall in line with standard football statistics. (October 11th, 2019). 187.167.179.223 (talk) 21:51, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree. Youth goals and matches should be excluded. Tkotw12 (talk) 16:20, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Ditto. Electronic data processor (talk) 09:20, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Youth goals and matches are generally included in professional goalscoring lists. See official FIFA goals and matches in Olympic games (which are mixed players [u23+ older players]), for example. It's too complicated but if you have enough data for every player maybe you can add it. Lanzenhart (talk) 13:00, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Seemingly the majority opinion is that all the youth goals should be excluded. Then why is it still here? Does it mean that the Wiki's principles could be ignored upon personal taste/admins' taste? TDK (talk) 20:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, but this list is basically copied from RSSSF, which includes youth goals. Otherwise, a reliable source would have to be obtained which lists players without youth goals/appearances. Without this, the RSSSF source will unfortunately continue to be used. For what it's worth, I think that source is trash - just look at the players on top, absolute nonsense non-verifiable "stats" researched by random unnamed people.Feudonym (talk) 23:53, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

First of all, if such data exist for all the players, then there is nothing wrong in them being included. Secondly, such data are indeed generally counted, but that applies mainly for international matches, i.e. the Under- football teams, and not for junior club levels... though, as RSSSF seems to include stats for junior club levels, along with B and C teams, then we can suppose such stats are included to all players listed in their list. Thirdly, there are many sources-references they (RSSSF) can't show you even though the sources do exist, e.g. all the sources coming from newspapers that haven't yet been digitalized. Fourthly and finally, it's a fact RSSSF makes mistakes (the curators are people and people make mistakes) and sometimes seems they are omitting information on purpose, but I think it's safe to give credits on the info they (RSSSF) are giving, i.e. to believe there are proofs for the listing, but also to have in mind there are missing people from the list and check regularly for mistakes, e.g., an example for the latter, it seems there are some players that their career's span in the years shows only their years as senior players in the source (always talking for the RSSSF's Prolific Scorers Data page), but in the goals there are also those goals in the junior levels counted we discuss here, so the career spans (column "Years" in Wikipedia's page) here should be fixed (for instance, for C. Ronaldo says 2002- instead of 2001- in the RSSSF source, but they count the goals he has with Portugal U-15 national team), so be aware to check regularly for mistakes from RSSSF sources in general... Nialarfatem (talk) 05:22, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

How on earth are you not taking Lewandowskis goal from 2.League Znicz Pruszkow into consideration? U've counted Ibrahimovic's goals from Malmö when they were relegeted to 2nd League and same for many other players. Same with Lewys goals excluded from 4th div. Delta Warsaw. It might not be Premier League but they have the 14th position in Europe after Switzerland..

2005 Delta Warsaw 17 (4) 2005–2006 Legia Warsaw II 12 (2) 2006–2008 Znicz Pruszków 59 (36) 2006–2007 Znicz Pruszków II 2 (2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lewandowski PeteScania79 (talk) 19:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi! As this is totally off-topic here, I will suggest being more relevant, since otherwise the input can be interpreted only as spam. By the way, whatever you are trying to achieve is not supported by a reliable reference, as WP (Wikipedia) is not a reliable source. Cheers! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 03:24, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2021

Correct number of goals Lionel Messi 782, Josef Bican 805+, Cristiano Ronaldo 790! 213.202.66.207 (talk) 06:18, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Curbon7 (talk) 22:50, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2021

Ronaldo is at 795 goals now as of October 21 2021 Messi is at 755 goals now as of October 21 2021 Maurodog (talk) 00:40, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Tancredi Palmeri, a well known Italian reporter keeps track and had Lewy at 561 last month. 3 shy of Ibrahimovic..

Found on Twitter @tancredipalmeri PeteScania79 (talk) 20:43, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello! Twitter is not considered a reliable source in WP. Cheers! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 02:49, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Curbon7 (talk) 22:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

New (crazy) idea?

Wouldn't be better to write above the first list 'According to the IFFHS'. So no 'other media outlets'. Just to make it more clearer. And maybe also add 'no live updates'.

What do you think??

Sportfan82 (talk) 09:09, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2021

Ronaldo has 788 goals 80.10.25.165 (talk) 09:14, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

791 after last night’s match against Luxembourg but they won’t update the table for some reason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58891896 Whiteabbeywords (talk) 15:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Sorry 794 total career goals after the Luxembourg game Whiteabbeywords (talk) 10:12, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Marking request as answered based on requests below. Heartmusic678 (talk) 10:36, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Cristiano ronaldo goals

It’s not 794 It’s 796 Mohammad sarsour (talk) 14:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2021

2409:4063:4E9A:7E24:0:0:550A:A803 (talk) 09:25, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Update goals scored by the players recently

 Not done. List will be updated when the respective references update their lists. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 12:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Cristiano Ronaldo’s official total of goals

Cristiano Ronaldo has 803 official goals in total, in this page, there’s only 796. Please, correct and upgrade the info. 2806:10A6:8:121B:B4EA:63FD:E720:B5D0 (talk) 05:04, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

RSSSF source

according to the RSSSF source, Ronnie Rooke has 929+ goals in 1028 matches. please, correct this line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.93 (talk) 20:10, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 9 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There's agreement that any eligible women should simply be added to this list. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

---

List of footballers with 500 or more goals → List of men's footballers with 500 or more goals – Hello! This had been brought up before, but was "buried" unanswered, so now I am requesting a name change. Besides, the name change would also be made for consistency, as all other articles of the kind have "men's" or "women's" on the title if they are not referring to both women and men footballers. Lorry Gundersen (talk) 00:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose for the simple reason that the sport isn't called men's football, the teams aren't called men's football club, and the competitions aren't called men's XYZ. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 01:15, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Hello! That's totally irrelevant, as no-one opposes to the fact the sport is called football or questions that, but since there is a distinction about football played by women and football played by men and the list is only referring to men, then this should be obvious, unless you are saying it's ok if one adds women on the list, which would also be fine by me, as I have in mind many female footballers that could be on the list, on the top positions actually. Is this the case? Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 02:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

    Do the sources say men's football, or football? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 02:42, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support (strongly) per nom. With the current scope of the article, a title change is sorely needed. Paintspot Infez (talk) 02:34, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oppose: just add women to the list! I've just now realized that there's no women's football article, so just have it be one list with two main sections! Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:30, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Just add women to the list. There's no corresponding women's article to disambiguate from, and the list isn't too long yet. Also drop the "List of" from the title. There's a lot of narrative information in the first half of the article; only the second part is lists. Station1 (talk) 03:25, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Hello! I have no objection to this at all. In fact, in my opinion, the best solution would be a section name "Men" above the list to be added (as simple as that), like the way it was before (when "men's" wasn't on the title), later "men's" was added and since the time it was removed from the name this strange thing had happened: all the times someone added "Men" on the title it had been reverted by ItsKesha (you can check the article's history for confirmation). Also, I personally have no problem even if men and women were in the same list (not even a separate section), but I am pretty sure many people would disagree with this (mainly because many of their men's football heroes would go quite down in the ranking). Additionally, I agree with the comment about scrapping "list of" from the title, but I am pretty sure this has been done for the sake of listing/organizing: if not, i.e. if it's not needed for the lists' organization, then it's better to be removed. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 05:02, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

    Hi Lorry Gundersen, please can you show all the times when I removed men's from the title of the article? Just curious. Also I think you'll find it was Ae245 who moved the article, and you should probably tag them into the conversation. Also, removing the "list of" from the article based on their being an extensive lead goes directly against WP:SALLEAD, which says "This introductory material is especially important for lists that feature little or no other non-list prose in their article body". All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 11:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Comment Regarding women's footballers potentially going into a list... has anybody got any sources for any women's footballer scoring 500 goals in professional football? Because there's clearly no need for a separate women's football article due to the size of the current article. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 11:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Comment Yes, there are women who have scored over 500 goals. For instance, Lily Parr is one of them, most likely the most famous one, who scored 986 goals in 833 appearances (see here and here, and you will find the number of 986 in many other sources as well – also, according to National Football Museum, around 1,000 goals, and by FIFA over 900). Other examples of famous women footballers with over 500 goals are Patrizia Panico and Christine Sinclair, and there are many others – also, without any statistical analyses, but just by watching women's football, I can easily claim there are definitely more goals scored by average in women's football matches than those in men's. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 17:28, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Anybody who played for Dick Kerr is automatically ruled out on account of the FA banning women's football in 1921. Was there even a women's league? The women's Serie A is only becoming professional this year. Christine Sinclair appears to only have fewer than 300 goals? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 16:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as above - simply add women to the list (if they are eligible for inclusion). GiantSnowman 16:48, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Agree with the suggestion to just add women to the list. It's what we did at List of association footballers who have been capped for two senior national teams. Can be in the same list or a separate section for women footballers. No preference there. RedPatch (talk) 03:02, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:32, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hussein Saeed Scored 763 Goals

hussein saeed scored 763 goals 2001:861:4288:4470:1C7:B4AE:EDA0:ECA4 (talk) 15:22, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2022

2001:861:4288:4470:4C81:5B13:CE7:24B2 (talk) 14:16, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Des joueur ont inscrit 500 buts et plus non marqué

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 14:22, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Ronaldo league goals - 487 or 488?

Does anyone know why the IFFHS have Ronaldo on 487 and but Ronaldo’s own Wiki page has 488? Whiteabbeywords (talk) 15:16, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Removal of Josef bican

Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more goals in FIFA recognized competitions than Josef bican, so I guess his picture needs to be removed from this page. Daiyusha (talk) 10:31, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

the article needs major improvements

1 - currently there are 2 main sources regarding the ranking of the best scorers in history, IFFHS and RSSSF. i believe that two separate headings would be needed for each major source (ex: IFFHS source, RSSSF source; not only „Footballers with 500 or more goals”). 2 - IFFHS source proposes a ranked table based on top-level football competitions and the RSSSF source proposes several different tables: a ranked table based on official matches - top level and a ranked table based on official matches - all levels (source: http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html). all those tables must be found in this article to maintain objectivity. 3 - there are many mistakes in the tables in this article (ex: cristiano has not scored 60 goals in the cup, but only 51 and scored 150 goals in continental and intercontinental, not only 141, etc.). 4 - i notice that some users respect the date of posting the sources, while other users use live updates and because of this there are errors in the tables. you can make a decision about using live updates or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.214 (talk) 11:43, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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original research and live updates without sources

hello. reading this article, i noticed that there are many errors in those two tables (iffhs and rsssf) due to original research and live updates. the latest updates of those two major sources are from 31 december 2021 (https://www.iffhs.com/posts/1564 and http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html). because wikipedia standards have been violated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research), i propose that the two tables to be modified to correspond to 31 december 2021. the only changes that will be allowed are those that have a source. what do you think about the initiative proposed by me? thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quebecca (talk • contribs) 20:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello! I totally agree, and I think the current layout is the layout the list should have. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 23:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

thank you, Lorry Gundersen.

adding top-level football competitions table (rsssf source)

hello! there are 2 „major” sources with the best scorers in the world in this article that present rankings (iffhs and rsssf) and more than 50 sources. iffhs presents a top-level football competitions table and rsssf presents two tables: top-level football competitions and all levels competitions. initially, there were only 2 tables in this article: top-level football competitions (iffhs) and all levels football competitions (rsssf). recently, i decided to add a third table: top-level football competitions (rsssf) and another user (ItsKesha) do not agree with me and delete my work. that's why i decided to ask all the users who working on this article what you think about the problem. maybe we are too subjective and we need the opinion of others. below is the table that i want to add. thank you!

Top-level football competitions (RSSSF)

Rank	Player	Goals
1	Cristiano Ronaldo	805
2	Pelé	769
3	Ferenc Puskás	761
4	Romário	761
5	Lionel Messi	760
6	Josef Bican	743
7	Jimmy Jones	659
8	Abe Lenstra	645
9	Gerd Müller	640
10	Joe Bambrick	637
11	Fernando Peyroteo	591
12	Uwe Seeler	567
13	Glenn Ferguson	563
14	Zlatan Ibrahimović	560
15	Imre Schlosser	554
16	Jimmy McGrory	549
17	Eusébio	549
18	Robert Lewandowski	542
19	Ferenc Bene	519
20	Luis Suárez	516
21	Gyula Zsengellér	514
22	Roberto Dinamite	514
23	Alfredo Di Stéfano	512
24	Zico	511
25	Hugo Sánchez	511
26	Sándor Kocsis	509
27	György Sárosi	501

There are 50 major sources yes, not two, and therefore the first list isn't an IFFHS list. It is the eponymous list. The second table, which I disagree with the inclusion of as per previous discussions, is an RFFFS table. The entirety of the text in the article goes to great lengths to discuss the issue of who has scored how many goals and all the different permutations. We don't need multiple tables showing random statistics from random sources. The article as currently is has a clear and concise approach to the issue, adding additional tables muddles the issue and is clearly against WP:STATISTICS. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:15, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

thank you for your opinion. i did not say that there are only 2 sources. i said that there are only 2 „major” sources that present rankings (iffhs and rsssf) and more than 50 sources. i understand your opinion and i partially agree with you. the iffhs table is well done. my problem is rsssf section: in my opinion, top-level football competitions table (rsssf source) is more important than all levels football competitions table (rsssf source), because top-level competitions are more important than all levels competitions. what is your opinion about that? thank you. Quebecca (talk) 13:37, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Why does a source need to present an entire ranking list in order for it to be "major"? This is the case for literally no other Wikipedia article. My problem is with the RSSSF table too, I think it shouldn't even exist, ideally there needs to be one table with better sourcing which represents a broad spectrum of stats and opinions from several sources and which details all the various caveats. And there doesn't need to be a second table detailing top level goals, as per my previous comment, one would suffice detailing all the various bits and pieces. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 19:03, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

creating a single table with statistics from all sources will be a big challenge. in addition, discussions should focus more on top-level football competitions, not all levels competitions. a goal from top-level competitions is more important than a goal from the lower competitions. this is my opinion, maybe it's a good one or a bad one. thank you. Quebecca (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

do you think it would be better for the rsssf table (all levels competitions) to be deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quebecca (talk • contribs) 20:28, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure it would be such a big challenge, the table is already there, all that needs to be done is to alphabetise the list and remove the ranking element of the table, and to add the different permutations of who scored how many as notes within the table. And yes it would be better to remove the RFFFS table entirely, why do their stats get special treatment, their is no proof for their information in the first place. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

what do you think about the table below? the table should look something like this, to take into account all sources and not just one. i really like how it looks. if you like it, i can make the change in the article.

Player	Country	IFFHS					RSSSF		other source
		L	C	IC	N	TG	G	G	G
John Aldridge		–	–	–	–	–	–	551+	...
Joe Bambrick		348	247	0	21	616	637	678+	...
Ferenc Bene		–	–	–	–	–	519	630	...
Josef Bican*		518	129	41	32	720	743	950+	...
Franz Binder		296	93	87	26	502	–	569+	...
Steve Bloomer		–	–	–	–	–	–	509+	...
Dixie Dean		–	–	–	–	–	–	568	...
Ferenc Deák		–	–	–	–	–	–	795+	...
Alfredo Di Stéfano		376	55	70	29	530	512	515	...
Tommy Dickson		–	–	–	–	–	–	536+	...
Roberto Dinamite		476	8	5	22	511	514	519	...
Jock Dodds		–	–	–	–	–	–	539	...
Eusébio		425	97	59	41	622	549	591+	...
Glenn Ferguson		313	243	6	0	562	563	563	...
Hughie Gallacher		–	–	–	–	–	–	565+	...
Jimmy Greaves		–	–	–	–	–	–	589	...
Dave Halliday		–	–	–	–	–	–	535+	...
Erwin Helmchen		–	–	–	–	–	–	987+	...
Nándor Hidegkuti		–	–	–	–	–	–	524	...
Zlatan Ibrahimović		392	48	57	62	559	560	580	...
Jimmy Jones*		332	301	2	12	647	659	809+	...
Jimmy Kelly		–	–	–	–	–	–	550+	...
Sándor Kocsis		–	–	–	–	–	509	556	...
Hans Krankl		–	–	–	–	–	–	518	...
Willy van der Kuijlen		–	–	–	–	–	–	504	...
Isidro Lángara		–	–	–	–	–	–	551+	...
Tommy Lawton		–	–	–	–	–	509	741+	...
Abe Lenstra		–	–	–	–	–	645	775+	...
Robert Lewandowski		328	49	91	74	542	542	597	...
Túlio Maravilha		–	–	–	–	–	–	576	...
Boy Martin		–	–	–	–	–	–	600+	...
Jimmy McGrory*		408	130	0	12	550	549	549	...
Joseph Mermans		–	–	–	–	–	–	514	...
Lionel Messi*		475	70	133	80	758	760	787	...
Roger Milla		–	–	–	–	–	–	503+	...
Stan Mortensen		–	–	–	–	–	–	553+	...
Gerd Müller*		405	92	69	68	634	640	735	...
Gunnar Nordahl		–	–	–	–	–	–	510+	...
Pelé*		606	49	27	83	765	769	778	...
Fernando Peyroteo*		463	72	3	14	552	591	598	...
Ferenc Puskás		514	76	55	84	729	761	806	...
Frederick Roberts		–	–	–	–	–	–	574+	...
Romário		544	91	54	64	753	761	784	...
Cristiano Ronaldo		487	51	150	115	803	805	821	...
Ronnie Rooke		–	–	–	–	–	–	929+	...
Arthur Rowley		–	–	–	–	–	–	502+	...
Hugo Sánchez		390	49	38	30	507	511	562	...
György Sárosi		351	31	102	42	526	501	507	...
Imre Schlosser		417	18	10	59	504	554	575+	...
Uwe Seeler*		446	41	21	43	551	567	582	...
Luis Suárez		352	42	53	65	512	516	518	...
Ferenc Szusza		–	–	–	–	–	–	544	...
József Takács		–	–	–	–	–	–	539	...
Lajos Tichy		–	–	–	–	–	–	500	...
José Torres		–	–	–	–	–	–	561	...
Fritz Walter		–	–	–	–	–	–	574+	...
Ernst Wilimowski		–	–	–	–	–	–	683+	...
Zico		–	–	–	–	–	511	546	...
Gyula Zsengellér		–	–	–	–	–	514	611	...

Quebecca (talk) 23:40, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

I would be ok to make rable for fifa and fuck out iffhs and rssf as unreliable source. According to FIFA Bican has 805 and is second, mot pele. We have also too trivial informations like leagux goals and continental goals whatever else. We szhodl have only overall career, club career and international career simple. This list also has been butchered throught last two years with these unnecesary images and stars whicz marks one club man looks more like blog than encyclopedia. Everyone who is interested in football knows how do look puskas or Lewandowski. It is ridicouls to add so many unnecesary trivias to that article. And again remove iffhs and rsff as unreliable. /Dawid2009 (talk) 16:54, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello! FIFA is not a statistical organization; they neither produce a list of prolific scorers nor a list of the best scorers in top-level competitions only, and most likely won't ever publish any of those two lists (regardless of what the article says, those two lists are different, because each answers a different statistical question from the other), and the statistics on their publications are coming either from IFFHS (mostly) or RSSSF, so a column for another (statistical, because what journalists and footballers claim are irrelevant) source makes no sense at all, since there is no other source that performs statistics of the kind. By the way, if FIFA was to ever publish a list of prolific scorers (I highly doubt they will ever publish such a list), as they don't separate career matches to top and non-top level ones (this categorization isn't made by FIFA, i.e. it's unofficial), it will be either what RSSSF has or one with totals, i.e. including friendlies, as once they officially recognized Arthur Friedenreich with 1,329 goals (and without documentation, which shows much about FIFA's reliability) and they often publish career articles with totals. For information, last time they published something relevant, i.e. Bican's 805 goals (which you mention, but doesn't appear you knowing where it comes from), which is from this article (25 September 2020), that tally was coming from what RSSSF's list had then (archived page on 16 September 2020 and archived page on 29 September 2020). RSSSF and IFFHS are vastly used, and they are totally reliable and trusted. P.S. Why the threshold in WP is 500 goals and not 450 or 400 or 350? Aren't 450 or 400 or 350 statistically significant? IFFHS' list (which is a XXI century only, i.e. it's only about players who played at least once in the XXI Century, where is that mentioned in the article by the way?) and RSSSF's don't have any threshold, but WP's arbitrarily does, why? Also, since WP can make such decisions, why the goals per matches ratio (a better statistic, which moderates the difference made by players playing many more matches; as the more someone plays the more (s)he scores, and there are quite many outliers in the list for that reason) isn't used instead of the tally of goals for ranking? Why IFFHS doesn't give you the chance to produce that better statistic? Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 03:40, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Lack of updates

Hello everyone!

I have a few questions/thoughts that I want to share. What's the difference between this page and (for instance) the Champions League Topscorer of all Time? There you Do see the goals of Lewandowski or Benzema that are just scored. Does that page work with less of a reliable source?? And, besides, I find it a pitty that the updates of the RSSSF and the IFFHS don't come on a regular base. Don't you guys (or girls - you have to be really careful nowadays!) find that also a downside??

I am curious about the response!

Take care!! Sportfan82 (talk) 09:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2022

Robert Lewandowski's goal number is wrong it's more than 600 122.163.134.169 (talk) 20:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terasail^[✉️] 22:08, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Cristiano Ronaldo Updated Goal Numbers

Cristiano Ronaldo has now 809 official goals. 2806:103E:10:36CE:E88F:5A6A:CC4E:319E (talk) 02:30, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

There is a new update!!

Morning everyone!!'

I see a new update on the IFFHS site!!! Can anyone update the list?

Thanks in advance!!

Sportfan82 (talk) 06:30, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2022

47.61.7.167 (talk) 07:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Add 2 international goals to Cristiano, 5 to Messi and 1 to Lewandowski

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:28, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Bias at WP:Weight

If Messi's breaking Pele's reord in terms of "gals for single club" is so important to mention here, and "Romario's claims about his 1000-th goakl are so important to mention here then why we do not mention about Bican's Golden Ball received in 2000 by IFFHS International Federation of Football History & Statistics? (source: [1]) or that in IFFHS ranking Puskas is ahead of Messi and Cristiano purely in terms of All-time World's Best Top Division Goal Scorer ranking" ([2]). Also, the list if biased and non sensical. The only proper data (perfectly measurable or not - does not matter, at least not manipulated by stats) is which indicates all official matches. In old football friendles matches (during Eusebio or Pele era) were more reputable than nowdays. For example Fair Cup, were more respectable than group stages of CL, which are de facto also quallification to UEFFA Cup. Goals scored by Pele against best cliub teams in the World were more reputable than counted say Cristiano goals against Lithuania. Why RSSF ranking is not at the lead if he is followed by sources ike UEFFA, FIFA, etc? I also believe we should split article into few new ones to indicate few oher notable names like Blagoje Marjanović or Lee Wai Tong, and perhaps even few more like Masashi Nakayama. Regards Dawid2009 (talk) 04:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Bican receiving the award is mentioned. That Puskas thing is mentioned, he is ranked second to Bican according to UEFA. The dispute about old friendlies is mentioned. The Pele thing is mentioned. Have you read the article? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Split into new articles: List of men's footballers with 500 or more goals (RSSF) and List of men's footballers with 500 or more goals

There are few important players like the Blagoje Marjanović or Lee Wai Tong omnissed on this list. We should not omniss them purely because of RSSF or IFFHS do not indicate them. If we have dynamic list List of countries by population (based on many soures) and List of countries by population (United Nations)] then why we can not have two separate articles like List of men's footballers with 500 or more goals (RSSF) and List of men's footballers with 500 or more goals? Regards. Dawid2009 (talk) 16:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

No. Shocking idea. You haven't even provided sources for those players, and neither of them are even mentioned on the RSSSF website to begin with. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Blagoje Marjanović?

Why is not on the list? Acording to multiple sources scored certainly +500 goals in official matches and according to some is at least one of top 3 of all time, ahead of Cristiano and Messi but after Bican [3] Dawid2009 (talk) 15:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC).

Where are the multiple sources? That source you've posted is absolutely terrible by the way. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

@Dawid2009 and ItsKesha:Blagoje Marjanović The first superstar of Yugoslav football, Blagoje Marjanović was a goalscoring machine who set the benchmark for all Yugoslav forwards to come. The man known as Moša scored a scarcely believable 575 goals in 566 matches for BSK Beograd (now known as OFK Beograd), along with 37 goals in 58 matches for the national team. Born in the capital, Moša was the first professional footballer in Yugoslavia. (Source: https://theculturetrip.com/europe/serbia/articles/serbias-10-most-legendary-footballers/)

Please, confirm if this is reliable enough to edit the page or not ?

Cheers, Боки ^{Talk page ↔️ Contributions} 22:30, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

See 2nd last comment here, this & search Ljubomir Vukadinović's book "1000 goals of Moša Marjanović". Lorry Gundersen (talk) 09:30, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

No, "The Culture Trip", which describes itself as "The essential travel companion to discover and book TRIPS by Culture Trip, as well as spot-on stays and experiences - curated and hand-picked by a global community of travel experts and local insiders", probably isn't a reliable source on the history of football. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 90 Soccer, which has no editorial oversight and allows random people like "Ken Salmon" to publish articles, probably isn't reliable either. It's bad enough that RSSSF and Vladimir Kolos are deemed to be reliable. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:43, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Did you actually read the article? The random guy includes references for the majority of the players/their stats mentioned in it. Also, I suggest searching for some names mentioned there; e.g. see what Alf Quill has in WP, which seems to be well-referenced. Lorry Gundersen (talk) 20:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, the source used was a book by José Manoel Dressler. He says here; "que na minha pesquisa levei em consideração os gols que os jogadores fizeram em jogos oficiais e amistosos", which translates as "that in my research I took into account the goals that players scored in official and friendly matches". So, there's no discerning which goals are official, and which are friendlies. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 20:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

This is only about the statistics based on that book, which, by the criteria of the article here, should be excluded, but they make sense there, since the article doesn't separate between friendly and official matches, taken into account the football eras those matches were played, though there are other statistics mentioned there based on other references, which I suggest searching more (like I said before, Alf Quill is an example of them).

In addition, worth noting that even if a player has been reported with a total of both friendlies and official matches of 1,000+, don't you think (s)he should be checked for references/sources in case there are at least 500 official matches on those reported, as the entrance limit here is at 500 official matches.

P.S. I forgot to add that about RSSSF being bad enough to be deemed as reliable is only your opinion; if the majority of the editors in WP says otherwise, you will have to comply with that, since WP functions with a consensus; I don't remember a talk taking place deciding RSSSF as non-reliable (it didn't, did it?), hence, by the last relevant talk, it is still considered reliable. Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

The criteria of the article means that goals in friendlies aren't included in the primary list as they aren't scored in official games. Where did you get that idea from? There's a whole bit in the lead about Pele's goals in friendlies not being included. And if this Serbian fella isn't included in the RSSSF list, why would he be inserted into that table based on some random Brazilian book, when it's specifically an RSSSF list? What even are Dressler's sources for this, how is he a reliable name? What does it actually say in the book? There's not even a source mentioned for Alf Quill, by the way, so it seems to be pure conjecture by "Ken Salmon". As a point, it's extremely unlikely that every reliable source imaginable have all missed the fact some random Serbian or Australian scored 500 goals. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:27, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

The criteria of the article means that goals in friendlies aren't included in the primary list as they aren't scored in official games. Where did you get that idea from? There's a whole bit in the lead about Pele's goals in friendlies not being included.

– What do you actually mean by this? You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

And if this Serbian fella isn't included in the RSSSF list, why would he be inserted into that table based on some random Brazilian book, when it's specifically an RSSSF list?

– Who said anything about him being added to the RSSSF list? First, above it there is another list, which you are claiming to be based on the majority of sources/references/articles explained in the lead of the article, no? So he could well be added there as well, if there is an adequate support to do so, but, by the way, I didn't claim him being added anywhere, if there is no reliable support; by the way, something relevant, if someone is backed by RSSSF, (s)he has to be added, since in WP we consider it reliable, even though that's not the case here.

P.S. Since a player reported as having more than 1,000 goals in official + friendly matches is likely to have scored at least 500 goals in official matches, one has to look for the names/statistics mentioned in that article and not only for the references of that article (as for some stats it includes references); e.g. visit Alf Quill in WP and check his references there. Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:15, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. Goals in friendlies aren't included and nor should they be. Including this bloke would be against all common sense and reasonable rationale. The first list should be based off reliable sources, not an obscure Brazilian book, if any reliable sources report him as having scored 500+ goals in official matches, then by all means he should be included, but it's not going to happen so this discussion is frankly a waste of time. If a player from the 1930's is reported by an obscure book as having scored 1000+ goals, despite the league he played in only having 22 games at most, then it's probably not the case that he has scored 500+ goals in official matches. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 22:31, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. Goals in friendlies aren't included.

– D'oh! That's exactly what I also said; well, at least, in other words. Quoting myself: This is only about the statistics based on that book, which, by the criteria of the article here, should be excluded.

Goals in friendlies aren't included, and nor should they be.

– As I cannot predict the future, I am not sure about that at all, and also I don't exclude that FIFA won't recognize him in the future, as I am also one of those people who don't separate friendlies and official matches from specific years (specifically, I don't do that separation in all the matches played before the Bosman ruling). By the way, if FIFA published an article about him as having more than 500 goals in competitive matches, wouldn't that be enough to be added to the list?

The first list should be based off reliable sources, not an obscure Brazilian book, if any reliable sources report him as having scored 500+ goals in official matches, then by all means he should be included, but it's not going to happen.

– I totally agree with this: it's not going to happen, at least for the time being and with the current criteria of this article, because the goals Blagoje Marjanović has in official matches are fewer than 500, but see my input above. Also, obviously, if he appears in RSSSF's list, he will of course be added to the corresponding list, but it's more likely to be appearing in the site of FIFA first.

If a player from the 1930's is reported by an obscure book as having scored 1000+ goals, despite the league he played in only having 22 games at most, then it's probably not the case that he has scored 500+ goals in official matches.

– Who is the player you are talking about here?

...this discussion is frankly a waste of time.

– Not at all, as some new names have surfaced.

P.S. Did you check Alf Quill's WP aricle's references? Lorry Gundersen (talk) 23:39, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Lorry Gundersen, ItsKesha, and Боки: This article fails all very important rules related with Wikipedia:CONTEXTMATTERS and CONSISTENCY. If we constain "top level matches" according to IFFHS then why we do not to the same with RSSF, why we do not have column for RSSF in the same section? Do we use IFFHS methodology when we like and RSSF methodology when we like? As the RSSSF uses different methodology from that of the IFFHS and other media outlets seems be a lie and WP:OR because of RSSF learly have almost the same list. In the end I also totally agree what said here (FIFA doesn't separate matches as top and non-top level). If IFFHS and RSSF do not include Mosa then it is for them. It is disgrace for the article we have on the list fella like Glenn Ferguson which has only 7 wikidata version, is not recognisable on interntional level but not Mosa with at least 22 languge versions on Wikidata. Long introduction also is too long and terrribly fails WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, with WP:WEIGHT. Sentence about Pele's instagram or sentences about last interviews with Cristiano also does not fit into this article per WP:RECENTISM at least as long as FIFA does not have official list of all players. Dawid2009 (talk) 06:45, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

@Dawid2009, @ItsKesha, @Lorry Gundersen - I am also concerned as to how can we calculate certain goals from footballers in 1930s when records were not kept since football was just starting to become recognized sport at that time. I mean it's not fair for the seniors of this game to not be recognized and I am not speaking just about Blagoje, but many other players that have labeled the beginning of what has become one of the most popular (if not the most) sports in the world. Боки ^{Talk page ↔️ Contributions} 15:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

It's not "according to IFFHS", it's according to reliable sources, and no reliable source says that this bloke has more than 500+ goals, no reliable sources say Erwin Helmchen has more than 500+ goals. Reliable sources do say Glenn Ferguson does, so no, it's not "a disgrace". It's not recentism that Pele, who at that time was possibly the top goalscorer of all time, commented on his record potentially being broken, a record he held for almost 50 years. We don't do any calculations from players from the 1930's, we rely on reliable sources and go from there; if these players aren't included, tough. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:15, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Anita Pádár

Hello!

How many goals does she have in top-level and all-levels football? Does anyone know? Her English WP bio article is a joke, but, based on the Hungarian one, where there seem to also be references, it's likely she has reached at least 500 goals in top-level (IFFHS' list) or in general (RSSSF's list).

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Probably 0 as Hungarian womens football isn't professional. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 17:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

– Who said anything about professional? Why is this relevant?

– Obviously, you have based an article mainly and mostly on IFFHS' list, but apparently you didn't read it thoroughly: link for IFFHS' list here and it's latest update here, where do you see in them somewhere referring to being only about professional football? It's only about top-level football; specifically, about what they consider top level, e.g. some top-level regional leagues in Brazil are excluded.

– Out of curiosity, as it's totally irrelevant, your saying that Hungary's women's football not being professional holds no value at all without having a reliable citation that supports this. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:44, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Because amateur football isn't included in any reliable source, hence why Erwin Helmchen isn't included, ergo it's based on professional football. I didn't base the article on anything, on account of it not being my article; however, I based my research for the lead I wrote the majority of on reliable sources, and none of them mention any female player, especially not amateur footballers from 30 years ago, nor any random foreigner from pre World War 2. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 20:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Zlatan Ibrahimović league goals

Zlatan is currently credited with a total of 405 league goals on his personal WP-page: Paris Saint-Germain (113), AC Milan (75), Inter Milan (57), LA Galaxy (53), Ajax (35), Juventus (23), Manchester United (17), Barcelona (16) and Malmö FF (16)

Why is Ibra only credited with 393 league goals on this page, when he should have an additional 12 goals to his name?

2.71.194.41 (talk) 12:20, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello! To answer your question, probably never, since IFFHS' ranking is only about top-level football competitions; the 12 goals Zlatan scored for Malmö FF in 2000 were in the Superettan, which was/is not the top-level league competition in Sweden. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 10:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Pele Image

Says 765 goals when the table says 762 2A00:23C6:7492:A601:CCF3:4CE:55DC:F635 (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Rsssf jimmy jones should have only 809 goals

That is what it should be 2600:1001:B023:3DD4:6C47:6443:AF39:868E (talk) 17:53, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Discrepancy

Can somebody fix jimmy jones in RSSSf. He has 809 goals not 833+. That is in biography. 2600:1001:B124:347F:54AA:E265:1240:108D (talk) 00:43, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2022

Ronaldo now has 815 goals in total and 499 league goals 2401:4900:1F3B:4564:B8AA:88FD:59DC:A149 (talk) 18:26, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Source? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2021

Lionel Messi has now total 752 goals , after 748 he scored hattrick in fifa qualifiers also yesterday he scored 1 goals against Manchester City . So total 4. Please make total 752 goals

I also questioned the lack of an update. I see that some changes have been reverted. And the answer is that there's no reliable source. Is the answer that we are waiting for an update of the IFFHS list and an update of the RSSSF list?? If not? When we will see a change in both lists?

I have mentioned the same thing before, and when nothing happened i updated the stats myself called for by one , who told me i used original research, after i clearly showed sources with facts , they calle d this original research then what should i come up with dishonest research?, messi is currently at 90 goals for national team of Argentina every where u can find this info, they delete my updates and leave messi at 81 goals while he is at 90 no logic in any of this Mido88alg (talk) 13:16, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

RSSSF normally does two updates a year. One at the start of the calandar year and one after most leagues have finished in the summer. Xenomorph1984 (talk) 11:07, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

No Live Updates!

Shouldn't it be more clear for everyone that there are no live updates on this page??? And, that there is only 2 times a year a change noticeable because of an update of the list of IFFHS and RSSSF.

The way it is now, it is not clear for everyone - look at the history page..

What do the regulars think?? Sportfan82 (talk) 07:12, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There should only be live updates with reliable sources. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 12:55, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

Ronald I now has 700 goals for club as of tonight. Many thanks 90.252.206.241 (talk) 20:14, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Source? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

What i find bothering, is according to you Messi hasnt scored a goal since june? So all those recent games who has been scoring the goals, a clone of messi of some kind? Messi for the argentinian national team is at 90 official goals , Cristiano at 117 for Portugal, yet none have been updated, anyone who has updated this gets called countless times for so called original research then by all means get us or give us the not original research or wherever u get the facts that can prove that Messi isnt at 785 official goals, and 90 goals for Argentina , because the numbers arent correct that you have put forward, if not backed up by proof and facts then all of this is a biased opinion and speculation, so please give us the sources that proof Messi isnt at 785 career goals, and didnt scored 90 goals for argentina football team Mido88alg (talk) 19:00, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

No original research is one of Wikipedia's core policies. You can't just blindly update random stats without providing reliable sources. And you bang on about "biased opinion" (an oxymoron, but alas), yet you don't update the stats of Suarez or Lewandowski when you repeatedly vandalise the page? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:50, 31 October 2022 (UTC)