Talk:Kfar Shaul Mental Health Center

Article subject

It should be clear: article is about an hospital, which is also located in ruins of arab villaged named Deir Yasin, but article is NOT about Deir Yasin or the Arab-Israel conflict, they have their owns articles. Netanel h (talk) 09:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. The model here shold be the Polish town of Oświęcim. It has a link to Auschwitz concentration camp, (Oświęcim is the Polish name, Auschwitz is what the Germans called it) but the death camp is not permitted to overwhelm the town. This page is about a Mental Health facility. Deir Yassin and the Deir Yassin massacre already have lengthy pages. Not, of course, that there is any comparison between the events her and those at Auschwitz. My point ismerely that a topic that already has a page, gets a link, it is not allowed to expand to overwhelm other pages.AMuseo (talk) 17:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

The analogy doesn't really hold. This isn't near the village; this is the village, so the history of the hospital and that of the village can't be separated. But regardless, there are only a few sentences that mention it. If you feel that's too much, by all means expand the rest of the article, but don't remove what's already there. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 20:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it is a good analogy. Have you been to Auschwitz? You get off the train at the station that is at the edge of town and the edge of the camp. They are not separated by much more than the fate of the individuals who were made to walk toward the gate of the camp. But a further analogy is to Appomattox, Virginia, a town so identified with Grant's surrender to Lee, that that event is often referred to simply as Appomattox. Yet the article is about the town. It is not overrun with information about the event. I think that there is an inappropriate tendency for this article to be used as a coatrack.AMuseo (talk) 23:06, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

As I said, you're very welcome to expand the information about the hospital. I tried to, but much of what I could find was about Deir Yassin. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 23:08, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Image

Third image

Proposed image

Old image

A question about the new lead image: the tall buildings (top right) taking up two-thirds of the picture aren't part of the hospital, is that right? If so, I suggest the previous one was better (bottom right) because it's an image of the hospital itself. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 15:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

It's now been replaced by a third image (left), which shows only part of the inside of the hospital. What is wrong with the old image, which focused on the hospital as a whole? SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 16:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The image you favor is a blurry photo that shows nothing but a few rooftops blocked by buses. Why is that better??? Is it a photo you took yourself? Otherwise I can't understand why you would object to a photo that actually shows the buildings that are in use.--Nopleazy (talk) 16:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

It shows the hospital very clearly if you click on it, unlike either of the other two images. Why did you remove the citations from EL, but retain the URLs, by the way? Usually people edit in the other direction. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 16:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Further reading

Gilabrand, could you explain what you're doing adding these citations? You seem to be adding any paper you can find about anything that a doctor who has worked in the hospital has written. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

These are research studies based on patients at the hospital which illustrate its areas of expertise (which are not limited to Jerusalem Syndrome). They are relevant to the hospital. Perhaps you should explain why you keep re-adding information about Deir Yassin. This is an article about a hospital. Deir Yassin has several articles of its own, and they are linked here. If you are not interested in writing about the hospital, please use those articles to write about your subjects of interest.--Nopleazy (talk) 17:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a source showing that kleptomania is one of its areas of expertise? The material about Deir Yassin is a highly notable part of the hospital's history, and indeed is the only reason it's usually written about. Have you been able to find any sources who write about the hospital but do not mention it? SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:28, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Deir Yassin is a notable part of the history of the physical site. It has been mentioned and it has been linked. But Kfar Shaul has been a hospital since 1951, and the therapies and research carried out there are relevant to this article. Strange that it should even be a point of contention.--Nopleazy (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

As I asked before, do you have a source showing that research into e.g. kleptomania is any way special to the hospital, rather than simply something a doctor who once worked there wrote about? And can you also explain why you were removing the full citations but leaving the links? SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Notable research done in the center is clearly relevant to the article about it, I looked at the sources as far as I can see these references do clearly state that they were based on the research of the Kfar Shaul Hospital . I really cannot understand the reason for objection ? Marokwitz (talk) 05:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

citation styles

is anyone averse to using citation templates in this article? i think standard {{cite journal}} will provide a lot more information than just the author and year as is present now.  —Chris Capoccia ^T⁄_C 11:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I've restored the authors, publications, and dates that Gilabrand removed several times without explanation. I don't know why editors are removing citation information, but it would be appreciated if they could left as they are now. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 12:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Slim Virgin, when you learn Hebrew you will be entitled to edit the section on etymology. Obviously you have no understanding of the subject, and not only that, have failed to understand the sarcasm of the article in question. Kfar Shaul is in Givat Shaul, and the etymology is thus the same. It was named for a chief rabbi of Jerusalem. Please restore this information or I will remove the section altogether, as it presently contains material that is both silly and incorrect.--Nopleazy (talk) 12:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer that we just say what the sources say, rather than assume and interpret. You're welcome to remove the section. As I recall it was you who added it. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 12:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

so, can we get back to my original question? can the article use citation templates? or will that be reverted again?  —Chris Capoccia ^T⁄_C 15:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

i don't understand gilabrand's comments that "these templates do not allow the material to be read". i think maybe he's confused about where to click. a citation like

Katz, G.; Knobler, H. Y.; Laibel, Z.; Strauss, Z.; Durst, R. (2002). "Time zone change and major psychiatric morbidity: the results of a 6-year study in Jerusalem". Comprehensive Psychiatry. 43 (1): 37–40. doi:10.1053/comp.2002.29849. PMID 11788917.

allows the material to be read just as much as a link like

Katz, G. et al. Time zone change and major psychiatric morbidity: The results of a 6-year study in Jerusalem, Compr Psychiatry. 2002 Jan-Feb;43(1):37-40.

but it also gives you more bibliographic information in a standard format, more sources for reading the free abstract and links for those who have subscriptions. the link in the pmid number (11788917) in the first example is the same link in the second example, so i don't understand how the article can be read with the second example but not the first. neither link provides free access to the full article. in addition, the first example also provides the doi. this particular doi provides choices of either reading on sciencedirect (including full article with subscription) or the publisher has a special section for those who certify they are patients in need of medical information.   —Chris Capoccia ^T⁄_C 11:17, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Chris, I added the Katz doi. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 11:26, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

if citation templates were being used, a bot could manage discovery and addition of the doi for each journal.  —Chris Capoccia ^T⁄_C 13:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

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