Talk:James Dean/Archive 2

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Dean's Paternity

Is there any truth of Dean actually not being a Dean? The movie of him promotes this idea. Should it be added into this article. GoodDay (talk) 21:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not sure. Flyer22 (talk) 23:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In his 2006 bio "Surviving James Dean", William Bast categorically denied the truth of this illegitimacy twist that appeared in Horovitz' movie script. It seems to be, yet another, Hollywood fabrication.KitMarlowe3 (talk) 01:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

In pop culture section

This has turned into the 'his name is mentioned in this song' section. The only thing that seems salvageable is the first, referenced entry. It seems like everything else could be deleted and the article would not suffer. Any thoughts? Craig Montgomery (talk) 02:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

And Family Guy.

James Dean is also mentioned in R.E.M.'s song "Electrolite" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbissell2 (talk • contribs) 02:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.28.95 (talk) 07:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Also mentioned in the song In My Head by Your Vegas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.30.235.29 (talk) 00:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

He's quite frequently mentioned in Scouting For Girls' new song, "Famous". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.179.253 (talk) 12:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

First Television appearance

There is something wrong with the idea that failing to turn up something in Hollywood he made his first appearance in a Pepsi commercial. YouTube is not a reliable source for the date of the commercial as 1950, so hopefully someone can find a more reliable source for that date. Commercials were all made in New York City, not in Hollywood, so the commercial must date from after his move there, and have been done there. Wjhonson (talk) 01:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

it says james dean died in the crash and then made more movies in the turtledove book. the turtledove article says he DIDN'T die 98.213.26.93 (talk) 04:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

James Dean is also mentioned in the Senses Fail Song "Choke On This"

66.44.151.185 (talk) 03:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Death

In the Death section, the last paragraph, beginning "William Bast identifies a potentially bipolar depression..." doesn't have anything to do with his death, and it seems to come out of nowhere. 68.226.30.225 (talk) 09:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Billy Joel

I might be wrong but isn't he mentioned in Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire?--Kingforaday1620 (talk) 23:46, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

• Also in "Cadillac Ranch" by Bruce Springsteen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.177.248 (talk) 06:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

James Dean is also mentioned in R.E.M.'s song Electrolite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.183.66 (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Add simple info

{{editsemiprotected}} Another song where James Dean is mentioned is "Forever" by Skid Row

Not done: The "popular culture" section is already loaded with enough trivia. It probably needs to be cleaned out, not expanded.--Aervanath (talk) 14:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Another song mentioning James Dean is "Cleveland Rocks" by The Presidents of the United States. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.18.125 (talk) 22:57, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Grease

i do believe that it is frenchies room that his photo is in, not rizzos. seeing as it was frenchie who said "they cant come up here my parents will flip" as the boys arrive at the house where rizzo just sung her song mocking sandy —Preceding unsigned comment added by SyrupSarah (talk • contribs) 08:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

speaking parts

The article is incorrect in stating that during his early film work James Dean only had a speaking part in Sailor Beware". He had lines in "Has Anybody Seen My Gal?". In this scene he entered a drugstore and ordered an elaborate sundae. Could someone please correct this error? I don't know how. Source: personal viewing of the film "Has Anybody Seen My Gal" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.137.87.77 (talk) 03:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

James Dean references in pop culture.

In Growing Pains, Carol kept pictures of James Dean in her locker and went to see Rebel Without a Cause on a date.

On an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Harvey kinkle dressed up as James Dean for Halloween.

Dean is also mentioned in "Daddy's Speeding" song by Suede --Fountosto (talk) 19:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

the song 'this picture' by placebo is based on the story lead singer brian molko was told about how james dean liked his gay lovers to put cigarettes out on his chest as a form of sexual foreplay, an interesting notion but i am afraid although he seems certain its true i dont know where he heard it from.

"Jimmy Dean" by Icehouse

Just wanted to add that the song "Jimmy Dean" by Icehouse should be added under the "Dean in popular culture" section. It can be found on Icehouse's albums "Great Southern Land" and "Man of Colours (as a bonus track)".

Jmacdonald19 (talk) 21:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

edit request

{{editsemiprotected}}

I'd like to add a song to the section that has songs that mention James Dean.

17 Berlin by the band My Favorite.

Can someone add this for me?

Imataco (talk) 17:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Done Thanks! Celestra (talk) 19:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

In the last paragraph of the Death section, mention is made that the "driving safety" interview with Gig Young can be seen on the video and DVD of Rebel Without A Cause. Since the page is "locked" from direct editing, can someone include a note to let people know that the interview can also be seen on YouTube by searching for "James Dean driving safety" ? Thanks. April 14, 2010, 11:08 PM EDT

I would, but we don't include notes like that in Wikipedia articles. We include hidden notes, but general readers wouldn't see those (only people who open the articles up to edit would). Flyer22 (talk) 17:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Category:Bisexual actors?

From reading this article, I do not see where Dean confirmed being bisexual. Sure, he might have had "homosexual experiences" as sources say, but I point out that plenty of people have had "homosexual experiences" and yet do not consider themselves bisexual. The same can be said of homosexual men and women who have had "heterosexual experiences" but do not consider themselves bisexual. The Bisexuality article even addresses this type of thing.

My understanding of Wikipedia policy is that we should not label anyone as homosexual or bisexual (or even heterosexual) unless they clearly identify as such. The Aubrey O'Day article, though a lesser-known celebrity, is one example of this. Two other examples include the Natalie Portman article and the Christina Aguilera article (just go through the past discussions for those two articles).

Despite other articles being careful not to categorize someone's sexual orientation unless that person categorizes/categorized it first, I see articles such as this one and Marlon Brando doing it anyway. Why is that? I would hate to think that it is simply due to these two men being deceased.

I have also addressed this on the Marlon Brando article. I mean, this being the case, Dean clearly should not be in Category:Bisexual actors, and probably neither should Brando. Flyer22 (talk) 00:50, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Categories are not to be added unless there is explicit confirmation by the individual or by an extensive amount of reliable sources stating it as fact, not as speculation. The LGBT Project tag for articles however, covers all LGBT subject matter, including notable speculation about individuals sexual orientation. A good example is Lindsay Lohan who was in a same-sex relationship but refused to categorize herself as bisexual or lesbian. Also, as far as I'm aware (I may have to do some reasearch) I believe Dean was openly bisexual (or at least comfortable discussing his romantic/sexual relationships with men). I think Brando was more speculation. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 03:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL, Bookkeeperoftheoccult, as you stated on Brando's talk page, you may have gotten the actors mixed up. From what I see, Brando was comfortable discussing his romantic/sexual relationships with men, but Dean being gay or bisexual was/is more speculation than confirmed. Flyer22 (talk) 11:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

This is tricky. The "gay for pay" tag kind of haunts Dean, rightly or wrongly. If it's true, it doesn't make the true nature of his sexuality any clearer, and if it's true, it says more about his ambition and his ambivalence about how to achieve his goals. I think the sexuality issue is given undue weight in its current context. I find the section headers a little jarring, especially given that three headers in a row use the word "Dean" in an article about James Dean. It's redundant. In this case, changing it to "Personal life" would not solve the problem, because it's only one aspect of his personal life that is being examined. I think "examined" is a better word in this case than "discussed". It reads as though a case is being stated. I think that a personal life section would be appropriate to discuss his known relationships, even if we don't know which ones were sexual or to what extent, but in Dean's case the dissection of his supposed sexuality is really part of his "legacy". Since his death, his entire life has been put under a microscope, and it is because he is seen as some kind of icon that his sexuality is so questioned. This would be quite an ambitious undertaking, but I think that a well referenced "legacy" section, could discuss the immediate reaction to his death, the building of his "icon/legend" status (thereby absorbing the underdeveloped "Dean as an icon" section, and maybe even some of the pop culture section), and the questioning of his sexuality which occurred much later, and which is partly building on his status, but also partly dismantling or aiming to dismantle it. He is someone that has "achieved" more since his death than he did during his life. He didn't enter the public consciousness to any great degree while alive, but after his death, he certainly did. This is perhaps a more complicated response than you may have expected, but I personally think that his sexuality is less relevant, than the discussion of his sexuality, and that it fits within a wider discussion of his impact and the interest in him. Rossrs (talk) 13:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate your "complicated" reply, LOL. Your thoughts about the formatting are correct, in my view. I have organized the article as you suggested, though immediate reaction to his death is not yet there. And, keeping in mind that he has been very much bigger in death than in life, I am not sure that his death had much initial impact. In addition, I removed Dean from Category:Bisexual actors...but I left him in Category:LGBT people from the United States due to his being a LGBT figure and there being so many accounts that he is a part of that group (a combination of both, as opposed to listing him as bisexual simply based on "confirmation" from a friend and speculation). But, even so, I am not sure if I should leave him in that category. What do you think? Flyer22 (talk) 00:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it's an improvement, and it seems to me that it's a stronger structure on which to build a better article, than it was before. I'm not sure about him being in Category:LGBT people from the United States, but I think it's more appropriate than Category:Bisexual actors. I'd be interested to see the reaction to these changes. I certainly feel you've made steps in the right direction though. Rossrs (talk) 07:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I hear ya. And, as always, thanks a lot, Rossrs. Flyer22 (talk) 19:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Dean and Kazan left for Hollywood on APRIL 8, 1954, not March 8

On page 190 of Dalton's American Icon, is a photograph of Dean's first letter from California to gf Barbara Glenn. (Please note the date 4-26-54 at the top right of the page is not in Dean's hand; and anyway, he was not one to date his letters. Presumably, April 26 was the day Glenn received his letter, and it was she who made the notation.) In his letter, he writes that he arrived in California on a THURSDAY, then went to Borrego Springs, and then to San Francisco. Now, if one googles for the 1954 calendar, one discovers that the incorrect date, March 8, was on a MONDAY, not a Thursday; whereas the correct date, April 8, was on a THURSDAY. (This same letter is quoted in Hyams's bio, p. 121.)

Authors who give the correct date are Holley (pages x and 196 in his bio of Dean); Perry (pages 109 and 226); and Rathgeb (page 20).

Wellthentherenow (talk) 22:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I have tweaked that part. Flyer22 (talk) 09:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Merging from Donald Turnupseed

The notoriety of Donald Turnupseed centers only on his having been the driver of the car that struck James Dean’s. All the relevant information on his notoriety can easily be merged into this article. For a fuller discussion please see the talk page on Donald Turnupseed. Prost! Hammersbach (talk) 12:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Its okay here, but elsewhere not? WTF

"There have been several accounts of Dean's sexual relationships with both men and women." ... And the people who patrol the article for Liberace and Georgia O'Keefe refuse to let anyone add an LGBT category tag to it. But James Dean gets one. WHY? Liberace's ex boyfriends have come forward over the years and talked about their relationships. Pardon me, but how fucking much proof do you need here? --24.20.129.18 (talk) 07:56, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

The LGBT category should probably be removed from this article as well, since these are all claims or speculation; Dean is not here to confirm or deny any of this. You will see this was discussed above: #Category:Bisexual actors? Flyer22 (talk) 19:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Athena513, 25 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The description of Cal Trask, James Dean's character in East of Eden, is incorrect. Cal's brother is named 'Aron,' not 'Aaron,' and they are twins, rather than Aron being older, as the article claims. Athena513 (talk) 02:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

 Done, since Google and even our East of Eden (novel) article agrees. Great catch! ^Avicenna_sis @ 04:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Bast

Why is so much of this article re allegations on Dean's sexuality and the source listed as Bast. Although Bast was Dean's friend, there is too much weighting on what Bast thinks or surmises - not what he has evidence for. Can we propose this articel for a clean up - it reads like a teen magazine. WP is an encyclopedia and should be concerned with fact. One line stating that there are rumors regarding his sexuality should be enough. Kunchan (talk) 23:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Teedieroosevelt, 19 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The use of the word "homosexual" to describe a person who is gay or thought to be gay is outdated. I suggest changing these sentences in the sexuality section:

Screenwriter Gavin Lambert, himself homosexual and part of the Hollywood gay circles of the 1950s and 1960s, described Dean as being homosexual. Rebel director Nicholas Ray is on record as saying that Dean was homosexual. Additionally, William Bast and biographer Paul Alexander conclude that Dean was homosexual, while John Howlett concludes that Dean was "certainly bisexual".

I propose: Screenwriter Gavin Lambert, himself a gay man and part of the Hollywood gay circles of the 1950s and 1960s, described Dean as being gay. Rebel director Nicholas Ray is on record as saying that Dean was gay. Additionally, William Bast and biographer Paul Alexander conclude that Dean was gay, while John Howlett concludes that Dean was "certainly bisexual".

Using "homosexual" in lieu of "gay" or "lesbian" suggests a medical or clinical interpretation, rather than a simple description of sexual preference. "Homosexual" also calls back to a time when being gay was considered a disease or a choice. These views are no longer supported. These issues are discussed in the Wiki article "Terminology of Homosexuality."

Thank you!

Teedieroosevelt (talk) 18:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Given that this is clearly a content decision made while writing I think this needs a discussion here before the request is made (or can be done by any autoconfirmed user). Says this from the view point of a gay man who could care less which word is user James (T C) 21:29, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Lady Gaga

James wikipage lists, among others, "Speechless" by Lady Gaga as being about him. On the songs own wikipage it says its directed towards her father and does not mention James Dean in any way. Also the Speechless-link does not point at the specific song and I don't know enough to fix atleast that part. :)

Joel.westerlund (talk) 14:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't say it's about him. It says he's mentioned in the song, and that's true. Just his name, nothing else. It's also true that she mentions Johnnie Walker in the same part of the following verse. I don't think it's relevant enough to mention, but I have updated it so that it at least links to the right article. Rossrs (talk) 14:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Current version of Dean entry

Hi Flyer22

Thanks for letting me know the reason why you reverted the changes I tried to make to the Dean article on Wikipedia. I hadn't looked at the article in a long time, and I was concerned to see what a gossipy mess it appears to have become over the past months. Everyone seems to have added their two cents worth. Even though references are given, some of them are to books which frankly are simply gossip mongering tomes written for fans rather than serious works.

I was particularly disturbed by the fact that Dean's, shall we say more well established and documented relationships, had become mixed up with the section concerning speculations about his sexual orientation, which I would agree should come secondary to the bare facts of his life.

Dean, unfortunately, like all icons, has become public property, which means everyone has a claim on his or her version of what he was "really" all about. However, I think, quite obviously, in a biographical article, one shoud stick to sources who are actually known to have known and been a part of the life of the subject, rather ideas spun by third parties, amongst whom I would definitely include gossip columnists.

The Wikepedia article as it now stands is an inaccurate and amateurish hodgepodge. If I can't clear it up, maybe you, or some moderator, could do Dean the service?

Sincerely,

KitMarlowe3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by KitMarlowe3 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

As I stated on my talk page: The speculation about his sexual orientation has been in the article for a long time now. I think since the last time you edited the article, months or a year ago. Its talk page is full of complaints about it (look above). What changed was how it was originally a part of his Personal relationships section, as though it is all truth. Everything said about Dean's sexual orientation is someone else's word but not his own, which makes it all claims and speculation. I didn't think it was fair to present these people's words/theories as fact, and so I divided the information, leaving the Personal relationships section to deal with his known relationships...and the Speculated sexual orientation section, which has had something to do with his popularity in the LGBT community, to deal with the claims/speculation. This can be seen above at #Category:Bisexual actors?. Are you saying you feel that most of what is stated about his sexual orientation should be removed? If so, what would you recommend fill that section? What sources?

Also, would you keep this discussion in one place? I don't want to respond at my talk page and here. Flyer22 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Flyer 22. Actually, the way the article reads now works for me. This much we know: Dean claimed to be homosexual in order to avoid the draft. He had a sexualized relationship with Rogers Brackett, and a long friendship (not "lovers") with William Bast that was marginally sexualized. Jonathan Gilmore also claimed he had a marginally sexualized friendship with Dean. However, Dean also had a collection of different girls that he hung out with, some of whom have identified themselves as having had a sexual relationship, including Liz Sheridan, who has stated that their relationship was sexualized. And finally there is the statement that David Dalton attributed to Dean in his biography, that when asked about his sexuality, Dean replied that he wasn't homosexual, but also that he wasn't going to go through life with one hand tied behind his back. Rather than referring to the fighting boast (beating someone with one hand tied behind your back), I think this is more likely to refer the practice of tying a lefthander's left hand behind his back in order to make him write with his right hand. This is about all we can really say. Maybe "apparently bisexual" would be the best term one can use for Dean. KitMarlowe3 (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Still, with the exception of what Dean reportedly told David Dalton about his sexuality, everything else stated about Dean being bisexual or gay are claims or speculation. I would like to think we can trust Bast's claims, but they are still claims. You say "this is what we know," but I'm saying "we really don't know."

I'm confused about what you want done with this article now. You started out saying, "Dean, unfortunately, like all icons, has become public property, which means everyone has a claim on his or her version of what he was 'really' all about." Which is exactly what I complained about earlier. But now you are saying, "Actually, the way the article reads now works for [you]." Flyer22 (talk) 01:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

No, you're quite right Flyer22 - we don't really know what Dean was. Some of his friends say one thing, others say another. However, if we apply your rule, quite a lot of celebrities and famous folk cannot be said to be said to be definitively heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual; very few have actually gone on record. But Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar and Hadrian, for instance, were widely recognized by their contemporaries as bisexual, and this much is stated in the history books.KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

posthumous

"remains the only actor to have had two posthumous acting nominations." I believe that Heath Ledger had MORE than two posthumous awards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.58.85 (talk) 00:31, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

"Early Life" addition

On 25 March 2011, User Ryanlively added: "After Giant co-star Elizabeth Taylor's death, in an off the record statement in interview she gave in 1997, Taylor revealed that Dean was sexually abused by a minister after his mother's death, at age 11."

After her death, Liz made an off-the-record statement? Dean's mother died at age 11? Color me skeptical. The News Hound 21:22, 25 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The News Hound (talk • contribs)

The source looks like a blog to me, and I was similarly surprised to see this get into the article. Doc talk 23:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It's one of those reliable sources blogs, per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Newspaper and magazine blogs. It's best to always check and see if a news source has a Wikipedia article here, to better grasp its notability and to see what it is about, and The Daily Beast has one. As for being surprised to see junk or vandalism get into an article that is "Accept revision" locked, don't be. Too many editors apparently just push "Accept revision" without looking or without looking carefully. Flyer22 (talk) 14:18, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I tweaked the statement to this:[1][2][3]

I leave the rest up to others to tweak or remove. Flyer22 (talk) 14:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

On the outher hand, Taylor's statement does seem to corroborate Joe Hyams statement (in "James Dean: Little Boy Lost", Hyams, New York, Warner Books, 1992, pp 18-21) that when he interviewed James DeWeerd (the minister) a year after Dean's death, DeWeerd acknowledged his intimacy with Dean, but quotes him as saying "Jimmy never mentioned our relationship nor did I. It would not have helped either of us." KitMarlowe3 (talk) 20:02, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of juxtaposing the Taylor information with the DeWeerd material.KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I dunno. Maybe the whole molestation issue should be placed in the "speculated sexual orientation" section, perhaps after "...ambivalent sexuality"? Any thoughts anyone?KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

No, that has to do with child sexual abuse; it definitely should not be placed with the information about the speculation regarding his sexual orientation, where it is clear that the people are speaking of consensual actions. And even if Dean "consented" to the actions with the pastor or minister, children are not allowed to consent. It fits better in the Early life section. I see you moved the statement around as you stated above, but is a pastor the same thing as a minister? The Pastor article seems to distinguish a bit. And how do we know the two statements are in reference to the same pastor or minister? Flyer22 (talk) 15:26, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Verne Equinox made these edits and then I made these edits:[4][5]. I don't feel the two are the same person if Dean was sexually abused at age 11 (two years after his mother's death), and first began a sexual relationship with the pastor when he was a senior in high school. And yet...I'm still confused. It's difficult to trust a lot of these hearsay statements by people speaking of Dean and his life. I'm not sure I trust half of the statements in this article. But there's nothing we can do about people saying whatever about Dean. I just wish most of this stuff had without a doubt come from his own mouth. Flyer22 (talk) 01:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 80.7.120.161, 29 June 2011

 Verified and added

Please add "Rather Die Young" by Beyonce to the songs part of the 'impact on culture and media' section. The line in the song in which James Dean is mentioned is 'You're my James Dean'

80.7.120.161 (talk) 21:55, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Done. Rivertorch (talk) 22:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Sexuality

What does this mean? "No, I am not a homosexual. But, I'm also not going to go through life with one hand tied behind my back." - Fiwel (talk) 01:21, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

You're talking about the quote at the end of the Personal relationships section. I would guess that it means he's saying he's open to sexual relationships with men. A reference to bisexuality. But no one knows for certain what his sexual orientation was (except those who claim they know), which is why we have a section on speculation about it. Flyer22 (talk) 15:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Misleading entry under Stage

I find it very hard to believe that James Dean acted in "La Légende de Jimmy (1990) – Musical by Michel Berger and Luc Plamondon".

This needs to be in another section, surely! 60.234.221.211 (talk) 01:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I removed it, as seen in this edit. Seeing as he was dead well before 1990, it doesn't belong anywhere in this article...unless it's just the date that was wrong. Likely vandalism, though. Flyer22 (talk) 21:36, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 65.87.57.19, 19 September 2011

The song, "Drive" by Blind Iris off of the album with the same name, should be added as one of the songs that mentions James Dean with the reason being one of the stated lyrics below: "I wanna live like James Dean, I wanna die a superstar..." The source is from their MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/blindiris Thank you.

65.87.57.19 (talk) 02:01, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Not done, Blind Iris does not appear to be notable--Jac16888 ^Talk 14:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Jill333, 24 September 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I am brand new to editing (and I have studied it). Please guide me if I do anything wrong! The following is written on this great page (which I rated highly):

“While completing Giant, and to promote Rebel Without a Cause, Dean filmed a short interview with actor Gig Young for an episode of Warner Bros. Presents[36] in which Dean, instead of saying the popular phrase "The life you save may be your own" instead ad-libbed "The life you might save might be mine." [sic][37] Dean's sudden death prompted the studio to re-film the section, and the piece was never aired—though in the past several sources have referred to the footage, mistakenly identifying it as a public service announcement. (The segment can, however, be viewed on both the 2001 VHS and 2005 DVD editions of Rebel Without a Cause).”

The documentary, mentioned further down this page, "James Dean: Forever Young" also includes the full (otherwise known as) public svc announcement. Just letting you know, as I say, that it can be found in the doc, not only thru VHS and DVD bonuses. I know this is nit-piky, but I would have liked to see it on the page for reference. Thank you. Enjoyable page! Do I need this?Jill333 (talk) 04:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Jill333 (talk) 04:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

You need to give a reference to a reliable source (see WP:V)  Chzz  ►  04:26, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Jill333, 24 September 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Apologies, should I just have written - Change: “While completing Giant, and to promote Rebel Without a Cause, Dean filmed a short interview with actor Gig Young for an episode of Warner Bros. Presents[36] in which Dean, instead of saying the popular phrase "The life you save may be your own" instead ad-libbed "The life you might save might be mine." [sic][37] Dean's sudden death prompted the studio to re-film the section, and the piece was never aired—though in the past several sources have referred to the footage, mistakenly identifying it as a public service announcement. (The segment can, however, be viewed on both the 2001 VHS and 2005 DVD editions of Rebel Without a Cause).”

Change to "(The segment can, however, be viewed on both the 2001 VHS and 2005 DVD editions of Rebel Without a Cause", as well as on the 2005 documentary James Dean: Forever Young).

Thank you! My source is that I just watched it on AMC lol

Jill333 (talk) 04:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

"I watched it on AMC" is not a reliable source. Not done; please give refs.  Chzz  ►  04:02, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

 Not done

"To Be an Actor" - James Dean, complete quote

TO BE AN ACTOR "An actor must interpret life and in order to do so he must be willing to accept all experiences that life has to offer. In fact he must seek out more of life than life puts at his feet. In the short span of his lifetime an actor must learn all there is to know, experience all there is to experience or approach that state as closely as possible. He must be super human in his efforts to store away in the warehouse of his subconscious everything that he might be called upon to use in the expression of his art. Nothing should be more important to the artist than life and the living of it, not even the ego. To grasp the full significance of life is the actor's duty: to interpret it his problem; and to express it his dedication. Being an actor is the loneliest thing in the world. You are all alone with your concentration and imagination, and that's all you have. Being a good actor isn't easy. Being a man is even harder. I want to be both before I'm done. " - James Dean

Handed out by Edward Morehouse, acting teacher at HB Studios in new York City, the first session of his Tech One class. (References needed)

Hellskitchman (talk) 04:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC) Hellskitchman (talk) 04:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

File:James Dean Commutative Stamp 1996.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Edit request on 30 January 2012

Under section 6.3 The "curse" of "Little Bastard," there appears to be a typo in the second to last sentence of the last paragraph. It seems that the word Eschrich should be spelled Eschrid, as it is spelled in all preceding occurrences of his name throughout the article. Thanks.

Jcoffin1 (talk) 07:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. I've reviewed the sources; as they all use 'Eschrich', I've changed the occurrences of 'Eschrid' to match. Dru of Id (talk) 10:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This post is incorrect. The name Eschrich is correct. Dr. William Eschrich of Burbank, CA. The name Eschrid is a typo-graphical error that has been around for 20-30 years. Another factoid in the series of errors about James Dean and his Porsche Spyder.

Google: Dr. William Eschrich and James Dean. Dr. Eschrich purchased the wrecked Spyder from the insurance company. He was a race car competitor of James Dean. Listed in race programs as Eschrich.

Lee Raskin, Author, James Dean At Speed aka PorshaBoy on Wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PorshaBoy (talk • contribs) 20:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 February 2012

WIKIPEDIA PAGE ON JAMES DEAN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dean ________________________________________________

To correct erroneous statements and facts:

Racing career and 'Little Bastard' (Existing paragraph) When Dean got the part in East of Eden, he bought himself a red race-prepared MG TD and, shortly afterwards, a white Ford Country Squire Woodie station wagon. Dean upgraded his MG to a 1954 Porsche 356 Speedster, which he raced. Dean came in second in the Palm Springs Road Races in March 1955 after a driver was disqualified; he came in third in May 1955 at Bakersfield and was running fourth at the Santa Monica Road Races later that month until he retired with an engine failure.

Changed paragraph to read: In April, 1955, after securing the co-starring role of Cal Trask in East of Eden, Dean purchased a 1955 Triumph T-110, 650cc motorcycle and later, a used red, 1953 MG TD sports car. In March, 1955, Dean traded the MG for a new 1955 Porsche Super Speedster purchased from Competition Motors in Hollywood. Just before filming began on Rebel Without a Cause, Dean entered the Palm Springs Road Races with the Speedster on March 26-27th. He finished first overall in Saturday’s novice class and second overall in the Sunday main event. Dean also raced the Speedster at Bakersfield on May 1-2nd, finishing first in class and third overall. His final race with the Speedster was at Santa Barbara on Memorial Day, May 30th, where he started in the eighteenth position, worked his way up to fourth, before over revving his engine and blowing a piston. He did not finish the race.*

• Footnote: James Dean At Speed, 2005, Lee Raskin author, pgs. 47- 48; 68-71; 73-74; 78-81; 83-86.

Existing paragraph: During filming of Rebel Without a Cause, Dean traded in the 356 Speedster for one of only 90 Porsche 550 Spyders. He was contractually barred from racing during the filming of Giant, but with that out of the way, he was free to compete again. The Porsche was in fact a stopgap for Dean, as delivery of a superior Lotus Mk. X was delayed and he needed a car to compete at the races in Salinas, California.

Changed to read: During the filming of Giant during June through mid-September, Warner Bros. had barred Dean from racing. In July, Dean put down a deposit on a new Lotus IX sports racer with Jay Chamberlain, a dealer in Burbank. Dean was told that the Lotus delivery would be delayed until the fall. As Dean was finishing up Giant’s filming, he suddenly traded his Speedster into Competition Motors for a new 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder on September 21st and entered the upcoming Salinas Road Race event scheduled for October 1-2nd. He also purchased a new 1955 Ford Country Squire station wagon to use for towing the new Spyder to/from the races on a open wheel car trailer. *

• Footnote: James Dean At Speed 2005, Lee Raskin, author; pgs. 101-102.

PorshaBoy (talk) 19:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC) Lee Raskin ( PorshaBoy) Author, James Dean At Speed, 2005

 Done Thank you for these corrections. Lee Raskin is the authority on this matter. Carlstak (talk) 21:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 29 March 2012

Thursday, March 29, 2012 Hi, I would like to have added to the section on the James Dean Memorial in Cholame a copy of the picture I took of the Memorial in May, 1988. At time it still had a mirror surface and I think others would enjoy see it as well. You can see the picture at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JamesDeanTributePostcard1988GF38.jpg . The picture currently shown in that section no longer shows how the mirror surface has been revised since May, 1988. Thanks WaltMaken (talk) 23:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done for now: Hi WaltMaken. Thanks for the image! We can probably include your image as a replacement for the current one, but we typically only use unadorned, unedited images for this sort of thing. Can you remove the frame, red line and text from the image, and then re-upload it? When you do, you can re-enable the requested edit template by changing "answered=yes" to "answered=no". Thanks!   — Jess· Δ♥ 05:06, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Minor correction: Songs mentioning Dean

Just a little detail: "Electrolite" by R.E.M. namechecks Jimmy Dean, not James Dean. James Dean is mentioned in another song not yet listed, however: The 70s song Moviestar by Harpo 212.93.21.241 (talk) 19:25, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit-Request: Death Date and photograph not in sync

When I went through this article, I noticed that James Dean's Year of Death is mentioned as 1955, whereas There is a picture of him in the article "Dean in 1956". Please Do the needful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.181.16.2 (talk) 12:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done Thank you. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 22:57, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Unprotecting?

I was considering unprotecting the article to see if some more constructive edits can make their way in, knowing that it has been semi-protected for a very long time. Thoughts? --MuZemike 23:53, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. If anything untoward starts up again, RFPP is not very far. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:14, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

It is edit protected as well as move protected. I can understand leaving both. It is very detailed and shouldn't need further edits by IPs. If it is vandalized it would just create more edit history by bots, etc. Move protection can stay until a James Dean even more famous than this one has a wikipedia article? I am not sure if WP has a scope of having as many articles as possible editable by IPs. If this is the case then remove both.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:44, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

You may find it helpful to read this. --92.6.211.228 (talk) 20:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me to remove protection from the page then, and thank you for pointing out the policy.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:00, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually, an IP is more of a medium in which a person communicates from, i.e. there may be nobody assigned to some IPs, while there are multiple people assigned to others, and moreover some may edit from more than one IP if DHCP is being used. --MuZemike 02:47, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Oops. I should have been more clear. I assumed that when I used the term IP in relation to edits that it would be understood as an edit done while not logged in with user account.--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 April 2012

Under the Dean Death section, Reference to CA 99 should read US [now CA] 99 Reference to CA & Route 466 should read US 466 [now CA 46] (Both were US Highways until well after the National Defense & Interstate Highway Act of 1956 was signed) Bmheise (talk) 11:43, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Can anybody verify this and close the edit request? It seems reasonable, but I have no idea here. ~Adjwilley (talk) 22:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I lifted the protection from the article (hopefully it will stick without too much vandalism), so the edit request is not needed. --MuZemike 19:11, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Reference in other media

• It should be noted that a link to the Eagles song of the same name should be added as it references to James Dean, his major filmography, and "Little Bastard".
• Also, a reference to a portrayal of James Dean should be added as he was portrayed from behind as a leshii in disguise (in a female form as Paris Hilton) in the Supernatural episode Fallen Idols. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.87.41.56 (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Are there any sources which say these references to James Dean are important? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

The Article' Treatment of Dean's Sexuality is Dubious

In the article, there seems to be a strange attempt to promote the theory that Dean was homosexual. The opinion of Dean's college roommate, William Bast, is treated as Scripture, while Dean's many affairs with women are dismissed as window-dressing to conceal his true inclinations. Dean himself seems to have put it best: "I am not homosexual, but I'm not going through life with one hand tied behind me." In other words, he considered himself a bisexual who preferred women. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Younggoldchip (talk • contribs) 20:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Dennis Stock articles

These articles on Dennis Stock might be of use in expanding coverage about James Dean and the photographer. Links to beyondiconic.com have been deleted as WP:COI spam that violate WP:ELNO.

• Dennis Stock, Photographer of Intimate Portraits, Dies at 81 NY Times
• Dennis Stock, 81; Magnum photographer shot iconic moments WAPO
• Dennis Stock dies at 81; friend and photographer of James Dean LA Times

--Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:07, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Affair with pastor for "many" years?

The article currently states:

According to Billy J. Harbin, "Dean had an intimate relationship with his pastor... which began in his senior year of high school and endured for many years."

Is "many" years meaningful in this context? Dean didn't even live for many years after his senior year of high school. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Recent article revision from sandbox

I wasn't to surprised at this revision because DAP388 (talk · contribs) mentioned it on my talk page back on the 18th. But as far as I can tell nobody else knew it was coming.

It's probably a worthwhile improvement, but I'm not sure going live with a rough draft and tagging it with {{under construction}} is really a good idea. Clearly there are a number of typos and awkwardly worded sentences, and some missing and broken refs. Can we collaborate on cleaning up User:DAP388/Days Gone Bye and then go live with it when it's in better shape? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:59, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Why can't this all be performed on the main article? The reason I moved the content from the sandbox was because I was almost finished with the task at hand. As far as the references are concerned, could you pinpoint what is supposedly lacking citation? —DAP388 (talk) 00:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I am also concerned about this major edit. A lot of Lee Raskin's contributions have disappeared and "The curse of the Little Bastard" is gone entirely. I think they should remain in the article. Also a high traffic article such as this could do without under-construction tags. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

And it's not that you can't perform these changes in the main article. It's that you probably *shouldn't* since at least one other editor has already objected, and another editor, me, doesn't see the need to go live with a rougher version. A couple of us dislike under construction tags. Why not take a little more time and collaborate a little just for the sake of getting along?

The problems I noted were the full citation for Basem and Leno (2007) pp. 13–19 is missing, SurvivingJD was broken (but a bot fixed it), and there are typos in the lead like "...Cal Trask in the Kazan's East of Eden (1955)". You're right about deleting copyright violations and unsourced content, but let's just go a teeny bit slower to avoid ruffling feathers. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:39, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Good points. I also agree that copyvios, if proven, must be removed. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

In response to the "Curse of 'Little Bastard'" section, I don't see how the content demonstrates the type of impact that Dean had on pop culture. It adds nothing to his legacy, and it merely trivial. Even so, that section was one of the main areas of concern for me. I couldn't help but notice how a lot of those quotation marks stick out when compared to those in other sections of the article. Whoever did this, I believe, directly copy and pasted the info from a website (which I'm still trying to find). But still, that section seemed to reflect the current state of the article, as there was already instances of copyright violations in the lead ("surly ranch hand", for instance, derives from the George Perry biography).

I'm content with a collaborative effort to improve the stuff on my sandbox. —DAP388 (talk) 01:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

If you were certain it was a copyright violation, then urgent action might be warranted, but an unproven suspicion is no reason to rush out a rewrite. The version at User:DAP388/Days Gone Bye needs a lot of work on the sentence structure and word choice; it has a lot of odd phrases like "His roles as chastised (read rebellious? delinquent?) teenagers" and "would capture the awe of". Or "Inspired by actors such as Montgomery Clift and Marlon Brando, James Dean has been identified as an important and influential cultural figure." It sounds like it's saying those who identified him as important were inspired by Clift and Brando. It's hard to parse. And that's just the lead.

There's good stuff here, don't get me wrong, but it needs work. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:45, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

A couple of things:

• "His roles as chastised teenagers" was originally "His proclivity to playing chastised teenagers", but I believe you changed it. "Chastised" is better as a broad description for his roles. Cal Trask wasn't nearly as rebellious as Jim Stark, but both character were outcasted by their parents. If you like, I could use a synonym in the place of "chastise".
• "would capture the awe of", I guess I could replace "awe" with "attention"?
• "Inspired by actors such as Montgomery Clift and Marlon Brando, James Dean has been identified as an important and influential cultural figure." I'm not sure what's wrong with this sentence. To me, it's pretty succinct. —DAP388 (talk) 03:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• The first half of the sentence tell us Dean did something -- he was inspired. The second half says he became an important figure, and common sense would suggest that the reason these two things are in one sentence is that the first one led to the second one. Yet any number of young actors were inspired (in all sorts of ways) by Clift and Brando; after all, they were quite successful. Yet only one became James Dean, so you're left wondering why these two things are said in one breath when there is really a lot more to it. It's a awkward, awkward sentence. And I only stopped there because it's faster to fix them than list them. The whole thing is terribly difficult to read because the writing is so stilted, awkward, and wordy. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm rather surprised people are objecting to DAP's version "going live". It isn't perfect yet, but there's nothing wrong with people tweaking and copy-editing it straight from the article page. This happens with articles all the time (and without "underconstruction" tags). I think it's a significant improvement to the current version - with respect to the people who worked on it, DAP's has a far more appropriate level of detail (ie, more on acting and importance; less on racing and death), has a sense of narrative, and is thoroughly referenced. It's rather unfair to call DAP's version "rough" when the current one is fairly sub-par in these respects. I think s/he's done a great job, and the work should be available to the public as soon as possible. There's no criteria that it needs to be perfect, think how many WP articles are in a mess and read by hundreds/thousands of people every day? --Lobo (talk) 10:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The reason is the current version is readable. The draft seems like a machine translation from German. It's better in other respects, but the current version isn't that bad, while the new one intruduces not one but dozens of readability problems. But it is easier to fix than talk about so I should work on fixing it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I really have to belabor this point: "Following a decline, Dean's television career would endure a new period of growth with appearances". Endure? His career endured growth? Endure means bear, suffer, to undergo hardship. His career did not "undergo the hardship of growth". All it needed to say is that Dean got more TV roles. Simple. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Besides my feeling that it's a bad idea for an editor to decide to reconstruct an article in their sandbox without alerting other editors of that article to see if they would be open to such a reconstruction, I also have objections to the alternate version. I of course object to some of the grammar and other wording issues mentioned by Dennis. But I additionally object to changing the Debated sexual orientation heading to Public image and placing it in the Personal life section. The Debated sexual orientation section is about claims and debates regarding Dean's sexual orientation and sexuality, and it should have a title that clearly demonstrates that. His public image is not about speculation over whether or not he was gay or bisexual. And since this section only includes claims and speculation/debate, it should not be under the heading Personal life as though it was definitively a part of his personal life. His actual personal life -- what we know to be facts or mostly facts -- should be the only thing in that section, which means that the Relationships heading should then be discarded. Claims/speculation/debates regarding Dean's sexual orientation and sexuality belong under his Legacy section because "his ambivalent sexuality" is part of the reason he is considered an icon, as well as a gay icon. Flyer22 (talk) 15:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

The version DAP actually published on the page ([6]) did have the subheading "Debated sexual orientation". I personally think it's bizarre to have that information under "Legacy". Legacy means something that you leave behind for a new generation. How does Dean possibly being gay have anything to do with that? As for the opening to your comment, I agree that DAP probably should have written here about his planned reconstruction, that was a mistake not to, but we don't always get things right. Perhaps he didn't realise the page has regular editors? (I'm assuming "he" here, please correct me if I'm wrong DAP) I still don't think he deserves this negativity: he's put in a great deal of work, just to improve this article which presumably you care about. And now he hasn't even edited for a few days, which tells me he must be feeling pretty dejected...I don't blame him, Dennis Bratland above more or less implied his work was unreadable. That is really harsh after he's put all that effort in. I think a bit more appreciation (or at least sensitivity) should be shown; he was only trying to do something good. And I stand by my opinion that it is good work. It needs copy editing, but it is far more comprehensive, better organised, and more reliable than the article is currently. --Lobo (talk) 16:12, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed that DAP388's version was like that. But I'm not sure how else to explain that claims/speculation/debates regarding Dean's sexual orientation and sexuality belong under "Legacy." As the source in the article seems to support, a part of his iconic status is "his ambivalent sexuality." And tons of reliable sources cite him as a gay icon. Those sources can be used to show why this is a legacy topic. I've never known "legacy" to only mean "something that you leave behind for a new generation." It's sometimes used to indicate what one is well known for years after their demise (which can, of course, also mean having "left it behind for a new generation" because it was a part of the person's life). But, like I was getting at, while defining it the way you have, the fact that Dean is one of the gay icons from the past can be seen as a gift left behind for the new generation. Wherever we put this information, it doesn't belong under Personal life...per the reasons I cited. It's the same reason we keep Dean out of the gay and bisexual categories, seeing as this text only consists of claims, speculation and debate that he was either gay or bisexual. The only reason he's even still in the LGBT category is because he is a LGBT figure and it is a compromise to keep editors from putting him in either the gay or bisexual category. Also, note that the current umbrella heading for this information is titled Legacy and iconic status. I would stick with that heading, since it's difficult to separate the two and since it takes care of your or others' concern that the gay/bisexual text doesn't belong simply under "Legacy."

As for DAP388's hard work, I completely understand where you are coming from. It's just another reason that I feel that editors should alert other editors of their plans to reconstruct an article. This way, an editor's hard work is not discarded because consensus at the article is against it. It doesn't seem that anyone here is against DAP388's version in its entirety, however. Only parts of it. Flyer22 (talk) 17:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• I don't appreciate having my criticisms called harsh, as if I'm beating up other editors unfairly. I tried, repeatedly, to gently suggest that the draft be improved, without making a lot of direct criticism. But DAP388 repeatedly refused to hear that and insisted that I spell out exactly what the problems are. So I spelled it out, as requested. He asked for it and he got it. You can't call that harsh. Others concurred with my assessment that the writing is poor; it isn't merely my one opinion.

  It's irrelevant how much work it took: everyone's contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated but we don't make decisions based on how hard it was for the contributor, we make them based on results, not effort.

  And the problems are fixable, so why not moot the issue by just fixing them? It's clear that you're never going to win consensus to move forward with the current draft; there are multiple editors opposed so the change is dead on arrival. I've been working on it, and you can too. Fix it and we can all agree. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:09, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

It was specifically your comment "the current version is readable" (therefore implying DAP's is unreadable, a very bold statement) that I thought was harsh. I just think I would hate to read that after I'd put in hours of effort. But maybe I am being too sentimental, I don't know. Anyway, DAP asked if I wanted to collaborate on the page and I said I would be happy to go over it once he had finished adding content. Which I still intend to do, I just personally find it a bit weird editing his sandbox when it could be the actual article. I also have other WP commitments and want to do it in my own time. But yes, I will be going over it in due course.

As for the question of where to place the sexual orientation stuff, I suppose that will have to be a bigger discussion with more editors. --Lobo (talk) 17:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Dennis' intent was to be harsh. I'd like to think of myself as a perfectionist, and sometimes I don't take constructive criticism very well. There were some things that I genuinely thought was fine, but he did bring up some things that did catch my attention (i.e. the "endure" sentence). I'll admit, I was taken aback by the objections from some of the editors to my work, but they have stated a willingness to help improve the content, so I'm content with that. In any event, I'd also like to add that I have asked Lfstevens (talk · contribs) to do a copyedit on the sandbox, which he said he will do in a few days. And yes Lobo, I am a guy. :) —DAP388 (talk) 20:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I see that the current version of the article (the Impact on culture and media subsection of the "Legacy and iconic status" section) says the Gay Times Readers' Awards cited [Dean] as the male gay icon of all time." And DAP388's Legacy section, which I feel needs a subsection header regarding Dean's popular culture impact so that, looking at the table of contents, there aren't any readers who accidentally skip over that text (like I did earlier), states, "Dean has a sizable following among the gay community and has become a LGBT icon." Instances like those fit in a section about claims/speculation/debate regarding Dean's sexual orientation and sexuality because such claims/speculation/debate are what caused Dean to become a role model for gay men. Being an inspiration and/or role model for gay men long after his death of course fits the "left behind for a new generation" aspect of his legacy. Although this source isn't reliable, it touches on what I mean about that. The source states:

It is interesting how most gay icons are straight women and gay men. The great James Dean is a slight exception. Dean never addressed his sexuality, but since his death it has come out that he had sexual relationships with both men and women. Many have debated his sexuality whether it be homosexual, bisexual, or even heterosexual and just had relations with men to further his career. We may never know the real truth about James Dean, but the mere controversy makes all sexual orientations more acceptable. Dean was rugged and tough. He was loved and idolized. Dean was sexy and laid back. His fame and persona is well known and the fact that he was likely bisexual makes him a great gay icon due to his effect on the community. Many perceive homosexuality as feminine and perverted. Dean’s persona shows people that even the most idolized, manly, and rugged men can be sexually attracted and involved with other men.

There are better sources out there that go over the same thing, maybe even a few in the Debated sexual orientation section, but I decided to use this source as a quick example. I may help tweak DAP388's version of the James Dean article in his sandbox. If not there, I'll likely tweak it some time after it's been published. Flyer22 (talk) 23:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I've just today waded into editing the User:DAP388/Days Gone Bye sandbox, starting at its beginning and getting to the first paragraph of his Beginnings and struggles (1950–1951) section. DAP's biography, the better part of the article, leans very heavily on George Perry's James Dean, of which I have a copy. So far, DAP's bio has read like a paraphrased synopsis of Perry's work, but replete with typos, tangled syntax and errors of fact, even getting the name of James Dean's father wrong, calling him "Winston" instead of Winton repeatedly. DAP wrote that Dean's mother was a pharmacist—she was not—she merely worked at the drugstore. I've found many similar errors already, e.g., DAP mangles the facts when he writes: "Dean's television career would reach an important milestone in the Easter-oriented program Family Theater". I edited it in his sandbox to the correct: "Dean reached an important milestone in his television career when he got the part of the apostle John in a special Easter program for Family Theater Presents called Hill Number One". DAP's text has merit, but it creaks with excess verbiage and the sentence structure is often illogical. It seems to have been written and researched hastily, and needs much more editing and fact-checking before it's ready to replace the current version. Carlstak (talk) 02:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Between 25 February 2012 and 19 March 2012 PorshaBoy (talk · contribs) a.k.a Lee Raskin, author of the book James Dean: At Speed, extensively rewrote this article. Since Lee Raskin is an acknowledged James Dean expert it would seem more appropriate if his revisions were also included in any new rewrite of the article instead of just being written over. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 03:24, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. Lee Raskin's contributions to the article are an important rebuttal to many persistent myths about the life of James Dean. Carlstak (talk) 13:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. You make a very good point and I agree. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 14:31, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Wütherich ... died at the accident scene ???

From the section : Death
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wütherich survived with a broken jaw and serious hip and femur injuries that required immediate surgery.
...
Like James Dean, Rolf Wütherich had to be extricated from the wreck and he died at the accident scene. He was 53 years old.[45]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The accident occurred in 1955, Wütherich died in 1981 - clearly, he did NOT die at the scene. I don't know what footnote 45's source might say...
Mike (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:45, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Read it again. The passage says, "Wütherich died in July 1981, in Kupferzell, Germany, when he lost control of his car and crashed into a residence. Like James Dean, Rolf Wütherich had to be extricated from the wreck and he died at the accident scene. He was 53 years old."

To clarify the meaning I've changed it to: "Wütherich died in July 1981, in Kupferzell, Germany, in another auto accident when he lost control of his car and crashed into a residence. Like James Dean in the previous crash, Rolf Wütherich had to be extricated from the wreck and died at the accident scene. He was 53 years old." Carlstak (talk) 05:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Disappearance of "little Bastard"

There are persistent rumors that the sports car was bought back by Porsche because of the bad publicity of Dean's death. If Barris had the car & could not make money by showing it & Porsche made him a generous offer it does make a lot of sense. It would not be illegal to make an agreement about selling the car & then claiming it just disappeared. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.45.242.236 (talk) 16:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits

Not taking sides on the current edit dispute which is or is nearly escalting into war, more eyes are needed here. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

No evidence

There is no evidence of a friendship between James Dean and Monty Roberts outside of Roberts' claims. Roberts' brother Larry denies there was such a relationship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.195.74.105 (talk) 01:46, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Quality issue

What a dreadfully written article, at times incoherent. Worse, what's with the mention of "premonitions" and "curses"? Never mind the inaccuracies and tabloid gunk.

There are conflicting assertions regarding William Bast's opinion of Dean's sexuality. Early in the article, Bast is quoted as saying "...to say he was gay? That's ridiculous." Later in the article, it is stated that "William Bast... ...conclude[s] that Dean was gay".

Some cross-checking/cross-referencing within the article, or additional exposition of the conflicting statements in the relevant section, would be useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kpbtm (talk • contribs) 10:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC)