Talk:Ihara Saikaku
Latest comment: 11 years ago by CohenTheBavarian in topic Hirayama Tōgo (平山藤五) - father, original name, or both?
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Hirayama Tōgo (平山藤五) - father, original name, or both? edit
This article claims Hirayama Tōgo is Saikaku's father; but the article on Saikaku in the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan (英文日本大事典, ISBN 4062099373) states as follows:
- [...] Saikaku is a literary name adopted in his early thirties; before that he used the name Ihara Kakuei; his original name is said to have been Hirayama Tōgo. He was born in Ōsaka, perhaps as heir to a prosperous merchant family. [...]
So which is correct? Was Hirayama Tōgo Saikaku's father, was he Saikaku himself (and if so, was he a wealthy merchant as the current article claims?), or was Saikaku perhaps originally Hirayama Tōgo Jr., son of Hirayama Tōgo? --Cohen the Bavarian (talk) 07:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
- I've had a look at the Japanese Wikipedia page, which has this to say: "伊藤梅宇の『見聞談叢』巻六に「平山藤五ト云フ町人」という記述があるが、他には見えないので本名か否かは不詳。" My translation: "In Itou Baiu's Kenbun Dansou, volume 6, there is a description of 'a townsman by the name of Hirayama Tōgo', but as this is not seen anywhere else it is unknown whether this is [Saikaku's] real name or not." The Japanese article does not say anything about Saikaku's parents, but does list 鶴永 (Kakuei), 二万翁 (Niman'ou, i.e. "The old man of the 20,000", presumably in reference to his ~20,000-verse haikai marathon) and 西鵬 (Saihou) as other adopted names; these might be good to incorporate into the English article.--Cohen the Bavarian (talk) 07:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
- I found a translation of the relevant passage of the Kenbun Dansou in an article in HJAS: Drake, Christopher (1992). "The Collision of Traditions in Saikaku's Haikai". Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies. 52 (1): 5–75.
{{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter|month=ignored (help): "Around the time of the Jōkyō and Genroku periods (1684-1703) there was a bourgeois (chōnin) named Hirayama Togo in the port of Osaka in Settsu province. He had wealth, but his wife died young, and his only child, a blind daughter, also died. He left the family business to his head assistant, and, without actually becoming a monk, he lived a life as free as that of a Buddhist mendicant, spending half of every year roaming wherever he pleased. He was possessed by haikai..." - This definitely seems to suggest that Hirayama Togo was Saikaku's name. Does this warrant a change in the article text? I also noticed the Spanish version of the article, which has been a featured article on that Wikipedia, starts off with the words "Ihara Saikaku (井原 西鶴), seudónimo de Hirayama Tōgo (平山藤五) [...]"
- While I forgot to log in before doing so, I WP:BOLDly went ahead and changed the biography section to reflect my other sources. Feel free to revert if other evidence regarding Saikaku's parents comes in.--Cohen the Bavarian (talk) 05:55, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
- I found a translation of the relevant passage of the Kenbun Dansou in an article in HJAS: Drake, Christopher (1992). "The Collision of Traditions in Saikaku's Haikai". Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies. 52 (1): 5–75.
- I've had a look at the Japanese Wikipedia page, which has this to say: "伊藤梅宇の『見聞談叢』巻六に「平山藤五ト云フ町人」という記述があるが、他には見えないので本名か否かは不詳。" My translation: "In Itou Baiu's Kenbun Dansou, volume 6, there is a description of 'a townsman by the name of Hirayama Tōgo', but as this is not seen anywhere else it is unknown whether this is [Saikaku's] real name or not." The Japanese article does not say anything about Saikaku's parents, but does list 鶴永 (Kakuei), 二万翁 (Niman'ou, i.e. "The old man of the 20,000", presumably in reference to his ~20,000-verse haikai marathon) and 西鵬 (Saihou) as other adopted names; these might be good to incorporate into the English article.--Cohen the Bavarian (talk) 07:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)