Talk:2016 International V8 Supercars Championship

Too early

Precedent has not been set by other articles mentioned. They have been reverted to redirects many times in the past because the announcement were small in stature and because the majority of the announcements made were multiyear deals signed for the previous year, ie 2016 is the second or third year of such deals. The references regarding DJR Penske and Prodrive Australia are NOT announcements, they are speculation. The only announcement that qualifies as being a genuine announcement new for 2016 is van Gisbergen moving to Triple Eight. And ONE driver signing has never been enough to qualify for a new article. --Falcadore (talk) 15:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. F1 and MotoGP articles being created early is irrelevant as the V8 Supercar seasons have always been created at the release of the calendar (except when Nissan and Volvo were announced for 2013 and 2014).

I wouldn't be against the 2017 article being created this early next year, due to the new regulations, but without any significant news other than one driver change it is too early for 2016. ^Kytabu_Talk 00:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Which is why Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 International V8 Supercars Championship was started. --Falcadore (talk) 08:42, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Cameron Waters

Everybody knows Cameron Waters is going to be driving the RNR car, every credible source Auto Action, Speedcafe etc is saying it's a done deal, in reality it was likely done before Reynolds was let go in November. But its hardly worth starting World War 3 over, so to stop all the bullshit posting and reversing can we agree to leave it out until it is announced by PRA/RNR? Impala27 (talk) 07:31, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

If sources such as Auto Action, Speedcafe etc are credible and are reporting that Cameron Waters is going to be driving the RNR car, then per WP:VERIFY it can be added. If these sources are only reporting that it is "likely" or along those lines, then we will need to wait for a more certain report. Mattlore (talk) 02:29, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

And now we know why we need OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION as it is Chaz Mostert who is driving the RNR car, not Waters. Do you understand now Impala27? --Falcadore (talk) 00:12, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Changed my mind to agree with Mattlore, as reliable sources are stating it will happen without any caveats, then it is fine to include. If there was reasonable doubt as to the validity of the cite, then best left out, but as there appear to be none and with only one editor objecting to its inclusion, consensus as it stands is to include.

Regarding Falcadore's statement re the PRA/RNR switch, things change, all we can do is edit articles with the best information available. There are probably things in the article as it stands that in the fullness of time need correcting. Had PRA announced Waters signing in December and therefore met your threshold for inclusion, they may not have announced the REC switch so the article would have been incorrect.

This article had Erebus running Mercs for a few months only on the basis of continuation rather a citation. There was no problem in doing so given that the majority are highly likely to be correct, but if the criteria for anything being included is an official confirmation then the majority of the table would still be populated with TBAs given that the pit order list released last week didn’t list manufacturers. Impala27 (talk) 02:32, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

It has long been wikipedia practice that confirmation is required. You didn't have it and what you did have was wrong. There is nothing about the situation that could not have been made better than waiting for the confirmation to appear. The principal is detailed in WP:SPECULATION. It does not matter if the speculation is made by Auto Action, Speedcafe or the Sydney Morning Herald. Speculation is speculation and wikipedia does not do that. If you want to write about soft news, perhaps wikipedia is not for you.

Perhaps you are confusing what an encyclopedia is and what a news magazine is. --Falcadore (talk) 05:30, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia works on the basis of WP:CONSENSUS. From what I can see 2 registered and 1 unregistered editors think the cites are strong enough for the information to be included. Assuming unregistereds don't count then it is still 2 for and 1 against. WP:SPECULATION would apply if the cites were qualifying their statements with 'according to our sources', 'we are led to believe' etc, but as both are stating it with no such outs, then can be interpreted without any shadow of doubt as fact. If you feel the process has not been followed, please take it to an administrator rather than reverting. Or gain a consensus, if I am wrong surely that won't be hard to do.Impala27 (talk) 06:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is, is that Waters has simply NOT been confirmed to drive the #6 yet. As Falcadore said, 'Speculation is speculation and wikipedia does not do that.' If you can provide some hard evidence that Waters is indeed driving the #6 car, instead of articles which use words such as 'expected' 'rumoured' and 'speculated', then by all means, change the article. TZealot (talk) 08:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

As Falcadore and TZealot have said, we always wait for official confirmation from the team until a driver is added to the table. Note that Waters is not yet listed on V8 Supercars' championship drivers page. – Kytabu 09:13, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Driver changes

As there is some disagreement as to the validity of noting drivers who have departed the series, thought it best to work through the pros and cons.

The versions proposed are:

A) including movements, arriving and departing drivers [1]

B) including movements and arriving drivers only [2]

By including departing drivers it gives a summary of all movements year-on-year, i.e. 25 drivers at the end of 2015, 10 internal movements, 3 arrivals, 2 departures = 26 in 2016. This is the format that has been adopted at 2015 BTCC. Other similar articles such as 2015 Collingwood Football Club season and 2014–15 Manchester United F.C. season list all ins and outs. To exclude would only tell part of the story. Impala27 (talk) 02:43, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I think we should work departing drivers into the other two sections. For example, add "to replace David Wall" to the end of James Moffat's entry. – Kytabu 04:16, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Chrs Pither joining Super Black happened in 2015. It has no place in this article. Drivers who do not take part in the season is not part of the article either as including it is dependant on facts not in evidence. This article should be self-contained and not dependant on what occurred in 2015. If readers want to know about what happenned in 2015 it is one hyperlink away. --Falcadore (talk) 05:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

You present two options, but what is the point of them if they are both incorrect? --Falcadore (talk) 08:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

This article should include the changes in the drivers from last season, I like Kytabu's suggestion as the best way to do this as where departing drivers have gone to is not necessarily relevant.

In the case of Pither, which is a different issue, it is relevant to this season to note that it is his first full season driving in the Championship, as last year he raced two races for Super Black, one as a one off and the second after his 2016 contract was confirmed. Mattlore (talk) 20:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

If it his first full season then that should be noted on Chris Pither and in the writing of a season report but as the page section is described Driver changes that it is not relevant as it is not a 2016 change. Pither was the incumbent at the conclusion of 2015.

If one or two races is deemed "enough" to be mentioned in the following years article, where is the delineation? Five races? Ten? All bar one? --Falcadore (talk) 23:58, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Alternatively we could have a one liner: David Wall and Ash Walsh departed the series. Agree where they went next is of little relevance. Impala27 (talk) 07:08, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Virgin Australia Supercars Championship

Would we either, a) Change the name July 1, b) Change the name now, or c) Not bother until the 2017 Championship. TZealot (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I think leave it as is, as it started the season with the current title. – Kytabu 09:31, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Holdenman05, SchueyFan, Prisonermonkeys, TZealot, and JRam Wiki: with the series name being changed, should the title of this season also be changed? I feel that as this season started with the "International V8 Supercars Championship" title, it should remain as such. – Kytabu 05:56, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Usually we don't include the sponsors name in titles, I would keep this season as it is. Mattlore (talk) 06:04, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion, leave it as is. Holdenman05 (talk) 08:15, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

This is a tricky one, because the series spent half a year known as the "International V8 Supercars Championship" and half a year known as the "Supercars Championship". I would suggest 1) keeping the title as "2016 International V8 Supercars Championship", 2) creating a redirect for the "2016 Supercars Championship", and 3) noting the name change in the article lead. I would suggest the following:

"The 2016 International V8 Supercars Championship, known as the 2016 Supercars Championship (and officially as the 2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship) from 1 July 2016 is a motor racing championship [and the article continues as is from here ...]"

It's an inelegant solution to be sure, but let's be honest—it was never going to be anything but inelegant. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 03:27, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

How about this?

The 2016 Supercars Championship (known for sponsorship reasons as the 2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship and formerly as the 2016 International V8 Supercars Championship) ...

My thinking is that as the current name is just SC, that should come first, then the previous title can be mentioned in the parentheses. – Kytabu 05:04, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

As a rule Wikipedia does not use sponsored names unless there is no alternative. British Touring Car Championship for example is not known as Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship. Nor is the name Qantas Australian Grand Prix is in use. And the same with Bathurst 1000. --Falcadore (talk) 05:40, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

We never said anything about using the sponsored name in the title. How about this for the opening line, if we must change it;

The 2016 Supercars Championship (formally the 2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship and, until July 1st 2016, the 2016 International V8 Supercars Championship)

Holdenman05 (talk) 23:49, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I know I'm somewhat late to this discussion, but I would simply change it to '2016 Supercars Championship' as anyone who is actually involved with the sport now refers to it as just 'Supercars'. TZealot (talk) 02:01, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Looking at the aforementioned BTCC pages, they have the article name as "2016 British Touring Car Championship" with "2016 Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship" in the opening sentence. Based on this, perhaps the article should be moved to "2016 Supercars Championship", and the opening sentence then becomes:

The 2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship (formerly the 2016 International V8 Supercars Championship) ...

Alternatively, remove the Virgin Australia tag altogether. – Kytabu 11:06, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

I would keep it as 2016 International V8 Supercars Championship as that's the way the season started. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

I would change it to the 2016 Supercars Championship as the winner would be crown the Virgin Australia Supercars Champion NOT the International V8 Supercars Champion. This could be the opening line: The 2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship (formerly the 2016 International V8 Supercars). JRam_Wiki (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.29.41 (talk)

The winner is actually crowned as the Australian Touring Car Champion. The original trophy is still awarded. --Falcadore (talk) 22:01, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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