Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Thaddeus Stevens/archive1

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492

• Stevens was born in rural Vermont, in poverty, and with a club foot, giving him a limp he kept his entire life. - Can we cut back on commas somehow?
• His activities as a lawyer and politician in opposition to slavery - or His activities in opposition to slavery as a lawyer and politician?
• House as Ways and Means - Suggest linking if we have a good target
• the Polish general who served in the American Revolution, Thaddeus Kościuszko. - what's his nationality got to do with anything? Doubt the Stevens' were Polish.

He was Polish as he came from there for the specific purpose of aiding the Americans in the war, he was not here as a settler. Stevens was named after a foreigner, who had gone home to Europe before Stevens was born. I think it's worth keeping.

• a judgment from Heaven - Erm, God. Heaven as a place does not judge (i.e. too metaphorical)
• he may have died at the Battle of Oswego during the War of 1812. - Evidence worth a footnote?

There's some discussion on the talk page about this. I have no strong preference and prefer to let those who feel strongly about it decide. No one is arguing about it right now though.

• wilful - as in the original?

• So it seems. this seems to be the original.

• to read law with Judge John Mattocks - Is Mattocks notable? Also, is "read" the best word here?

• "read law" is the technical term. I've changed it to "studied". As for Mattocks, it's just as easy to give the name as say "a local judge".

• a restriction likely aimed at Stevens. - whose conclusion?

His biographers seem to think so.

• "All who memorialized Stevens after his death in 1868 agreed on his talent as a lawyer." - Approaching hagiography here. Also, this whole paragraph is quite short. Worth merging?
• William Morgan - his article is at anti-Mason, and the article here has him as a Mason. Do you think that's an issue?

As he was first one, and then the other, I suppose he must again pay the price for his indecision. I don't see a problem.

• Why the caps for Anti-Masonry?

The sources use them, and Masonry is usually capitalized, if only to separate it from brick. And as it soon thereafter morphed into a political party which for sure would be capped, I think it's OK.

• he may also have had personal reasons as the Masons barred "cripples" from joining. - whose conclusion?
• Shouldn't the possessive be Stevens' and not Stevens's?

Apparently the more common American usage is to use the s. So reviewers inform me.

• My Firefox is set to AmE, and it's saying Stevens's is wrong. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

• Do other reviewers care to weigh in on this?--Wehwalt (talk) 23:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

• today is Gettysburg College. - I'd suggest just noting when it became Gettysburg College, so the info won't date.
• school director, where - Is a school director a place?
• demonstrated how. - And the how was?

The source said "as he showed". No details.

• Trefousse - haven't mentioned this person yet

He is mentioned in the second paragraph of "Anti-Masonry"

• Buckshot War - notable?
• Although Stevens dominated the Gettysburg bar, - unclear how

• Considering the size of this article (and how late it is now) I'll stop here. Sorry about that connection fart! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Done down to here, if I haven't commented, I've done something about it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• The note about "even in the North" seems out of place to those who aren't aware of the North-South divide regarding slavery

Then they will take little away from this article, which I would consider at least second-level American history. I'll see what I can do.

Deleted.

• "disclosed" - Can a house really disclose something?

It's the investigation of the house, actually. Yes, I think that is a common term of phrase and appropriate here. The alternative would be something like "workers at …" I don't think it's worth the change.

• Despite his views, Stevens, until the outbreak of the Civil War, officially took the position that he supported slavery's end and opposed its expansion, but he would not seek to disturb it in the states where it existed. - Overly complex, should be split. Suggest "Despite his views, Stevens officially took the position that he supported slavery's end and opposed its expansion, but he would not seek to disturb it in the states where it existed. This position was recanted after the outbreak of the Civil War." or something similar.
• slaveowning - Hyphen/no hyphen?

No hyphen. It's a word.

• the trial of 38 African-Americans and three others in federal court in Philadelphia on treason charges - Notable case?

Probably not by itself, someone could certainly expand the discussion of the whole incident in the Lancaster County history article into its own article, but the link's appropriate at present.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• a stampede - less flowery language?

That's the correct political term. You stampede a convention when an unexpected or galvanizing events sets them into motion.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• certain rebels - though Stevens considered them rebels, this does not seem to be NPOV

The Confederates were rebels. I don't quite see the issue. This is a matter of historical fact.

• From the view of the victors, yes, but not necessarily from their POV (nor how history would have seen them had they won). I don't consider it too big an issue, but I have a question: did the Southern soldiers accept Johnny Reb as a national personification of them at the time?

• I don't know, but "rebel" is a common term applied to the Southern states. Yes, the South had interesting views, including that, as Lincoln put it, that one man could live by the sweat of another man's brow. I'm sure there are things at issue in 21st century scholarship for that time, but the use of the term "rebel" is not one of them.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• "the most important and best message that has been communicated to Congress for the last 60 years" - which begs the question what was put forth in 1805... not for this article, though

1804 or earlier. He's trying to exclude Washington, Jefferson, or both (probably not Adams). I'm not specifically sure why.

• Allegations of bribery were made; - is Stevens alleging or confirming here?

By the Democrats. This is a touchy part of the article but I'll make that change.

• Skipping ahead
• the local historical society, LancasterHistory.org. - is that their website, or their name?

Name.

• K, thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• A legal fight over his estate ensued, and it was not until 1894 that the courts settled the matter, awarding $50,000 to found the orphanage. - Did the younger Stevens take to the bottle? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Correct, he already had, and he did not change his ways. The sources don't go into great detail, but looks like he did not make any great attempts towards his uncle's legacy, which would have required him to stay "dry" for twenty years to get everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• Alright. Might be worth a clause. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• Someone else's story, I think. I'd leave it.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I think I'm up to date.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:37, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• ten percent plan - I think it's odd that neither this nor the original article uses it as a proper noun

I don't know. Given that, I'm inclined to leave it.

• Francis Harrison Pierpont|provisional government of Virginia - odd piping. Perhaps "provisional governor"? Or was Pierpont the entire government?
• the Freedmen's Bureau's land reform mandate - any way to avoid two possessives?
• I think you were going for "Radicals" and not "radicals", so I've fixed at least one.

The consensus seems to be "radicals" except if the term "Radical Republicans" is used, leaving aside the direct quote.

• He argued that as not even Congress had the power to meddle with the domestic institutions of the states, that if the seceded states were treated as if they had not left the Union, no reform could be imposed. - Feels wrong. An extra "that"?
• the new legislatures enacted Black Codes, depriving them of most civil rights. - Seems as if "them" refers to the legislatures
• He is leader. - As in the original?

Yes. As you are the second reviewer to bring this up, I refer you to here. I have also inserted a hidden comment with that link.

• Shame I can't read it. :-( Alright, just checking. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:03, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

• I'm in the USA, I can see the link, Crisco, and the source DOES say "he is leader" (I'm the other person who asked about this) -- the speaker uses the same odd use of "is" in a sentence a few words later, so it appears that's the way the fellow spoke. --Montanabw

• Johnson vetoed the Bill anyway, - why is "anyway" here?

In spite of the fact that his enemy Stevens disliked it, he vetoed it.

• Standardise African-Americans vs. African Americans
• Detroit Post - Notable?

I've never heard of it, but there were a lot of newspapers in the 19th century. Probably not worth a red link.

• Last section on the morrow. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:13, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Mostly just responded to, but where necessary, changes made.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:53, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks for your quick responses! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:03, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

• the only things wrong with the congressional program is that it did not go far enough, and stopped too soon. - erm...