Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/God of War (video game)/archive1

Comments by Torchiest

• "The player controls the character Kratos in a mixture of combat, both normal and quick time, with platforming and puzzle game elements." There are a couple problems with this sentence. First, what is "normal" combat? Also, I think the link under "normal" is confusing; check WP:EASTEREGG. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 17:56, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

  I have fixed it. I removed "both normal and quick time". The combat variations are explained later on paragraph three. Now it reads "The player controls the character Kratos in a mixture of combat with platforming and puzzle game elements.", which is not ambiguous and confusing. — ΛΧΣ21™ 18:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• • I've copy edited the lead, but it may still need some work or modifications.
  • In the game play section: "The player guides Kratos through a long series of tests, trials, and mazes to achieve goals.[3]" What's the difference between a test and a trial? Are both words necessary?

I suppose not. Someone a couple or so years ago wrote that sentence and its remained since. I wouldn't object to removing the sentence because the previous sentence states "puzzle game elements" and this example sentence pretty much contains that.

• • "During the game, he acquires a secondary weapon, the Blade of Artemis, and utilizes magical abilities, including Poseidon's Rage, Medusa's Gaze, Zeus' Fury, and Army of Hades." None of this really means anything to the lay reader. I'd suggest maybe trimming down the list to one or two items and describing what they do.

Okay. The list became a consistent thing across the God of War articles which is why it's there.

I'll have more tomorrow. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 05:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• I copy edited the synopsis section but this: "Minor characters include the Oracle of Athens, the Grave Digger, the Body Burner, and the Boat Captain." has the same issue as above. You could wikilink Oracle, since I'm certain its the same concept, and can you give brief descriptions of the others? The gravedigger gets a few mentions, but the other two never come up, other than naming the voice actors. Everyone else in this section is mentioned again at least once in the storyline. I'll have more later. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:03, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay, should they have a small mention in the Plot, or just a very brief description by their name in Characters? --JDC808 ♫ 18:54, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've been thinking about this one. I haven't played the game personally. How significant are the body burner and the boat captain? Do they play a major role in the game? I'm wondering if this may be a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE, where just because there is a source for the characters, that doesn't mean they need to be included. But, again, that depends on if they're important. If they are, there just needs to be a little context for including them, otherwise it doesn't mean anything. I think either in the character section or the plot section is fine, whichever flows better and more naturally. Also check WP:PLOTSUMMARIZE and see what you think. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 21:00, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay I'll look over it. --JDC808 ♫ 02:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Development
  • This entire part is problematic: 'At E3 2004, the developer stated that there would be "somewhere between 15 and 25 different attack moves" with the blades—the player's main weapon—in the final game, and the combo system would be "so free-form that you'll be able to string these moves together in just about any order." They also mentioned that players would be able to "sunder enemies with a single move, such as by ripping them in half." The developers described the gameplay "as merging the action of Devil May Cry with the puzzle-solving of Ico".[9]' The developer didn't directly say any of those quotes, the writer of the piece did. I would suggest either rewriting everything without quotes, or changing it around to make it clear that it was Brad Shoemaker who wrote all that, or perhaps best of all, a mix of the two.

I believe I've fixed this. It can be confusing because in the article, he says the developer said this or that.

• • 'He was inspired in part to use Greek mythology by the 1981 feature film, Clash of the Titans. Jaffe said, "the real high concept for me was taking Clash of the Titans and merging it with Heavy Metal magazine." He said that he liked "the kids stuff ... with Greek Mythology", but also the idea of merging these elements with more adult themes such as sex and violence.[11]}} That is a bit redundant, as you're paraphrasing the Clash reference, then quoting Jaffe on Clash and Heavy Metal, then paraphrasing the Heavy Metalish parts being added in. It might be trimmed to: 'He was inspired in part to use Greek mythology by the 1981 feature film, Clash of the Titans, saying, "the real high concept for me was ... merging it with Heavy Metal magazine," with more adult themes such as sex and violence.[11]'

I believe I fixed this also, at least half of it. I didn't want to remove the "kids stuff" part so I wasn't sure what to do there.

• • 'He stated that he wanted to make the game "out of passion, not fear, and that it would be a game that he himself, as a game player, would want to play."' This sentence is confusing, because it sounds like he's referring to himself in the third person. Checking the source, I see this is also not a direct quote from Jaffe. You have to make it clear that is the writer of the piece who wrote those exact words, and they're not a quote from Jaffe. I'd say all the quotes in the development section need to be compared to the sources now to make sure it's clear whether it was Jaffe or a writer who said it.

I believe I've also fixed this. Again, also confusing as mentioned before. I checked other quotes not mentioned here and they are Jaffe's.

• • 'He said the 1981 film Raiders of the Lost Ark also influenced the development of God of War: "I wanted to make a game that made players feel like I felt when I was 10, watching Raiders,"' Similar to the Clash part above; you're both paraphrasing and quoting. Try to trim/merge those pieces.

Removed quotes and paraphrased.

• • The last quote is good, but it's a bit awkward to start by saying 'and that the game "is not...', then having multiple sentences. Try to either expand the quote and make the lead-in to it broader in scope or more general, or break it into two separate quotes.

Okay, changed "and that the game 'is not..." to "but the game 'is not..." Wasn't sure where to break it into two sentences. --JDC808 ♫ 05:39, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

More later. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 04:30, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• The voice cast section is very dry reading. I think it would be better to integrate it into the plot, and then just move the voice director bit into development. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 19:39, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

That section is modeled on Batman: Arkham Asylum which WP:VG/GL referenced as a good example for voice casts. The differences are it's not a subsection there and this article doesn't have the luxury of previous voice over portrayals for the characters. The issue I see with integrating into the Plot is that all characters are not accounted for there, and it would seem out of place to try and put the voice director somewhere in Development. --JDC808 ♫ 21:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

That guideline recommends that voice casts should generally not be included. Exceptions include instances when the cast is particularly notable, or are reprising roles, which is the case in the Arkham article. It also says lists shouldn't have over ten actors, while GoW currently has more than a dozen. I think this is another case where, just because we have a source with all the information, it's not necessary to include it all. How about this: surely some of the actors reprise their roles in later games. Why not include just the handful of principles like Kratos, Athena, and Zeus (for example) and mention that their actors continued to perform them throughout the series. I don't actually know if they did, but that's an option. Maybe we could ask for another opinion at WT:VG? —Torchiest ^talk_edits 22:44, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay, what if we put in parenthesis the voice actors name by the characters name in the Characters section? As for the reprisal, only a couple characters reprise their role in God of War II then they all change. Kratos, his wife, daughter and narrator are the only ones to reprise their roles in each game, the rest change at some point, unless they were only in one game. --JDC808 ♫ 23:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 23:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. --JDC808 ♫ 02:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Having made it to the novel section, I have to add my own concerns about The Sixth Axis source. Normally, a post by someone who doesn't use their full name is a big red flag for reliability. I know its the only review you've got, but unless you can find some solid evidence to support the quality of the source, I'd suggest pulling that entire paragraph and looking for another review. I don't necessarily think the article would suffer too much without a review of the novel anyway. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'll see if I can find another review. If not, I'll just completely pull that. --JDC808 ♫ 19:18, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Pulled the review. I couldn't really find a source (there were only a very few) that I knew was reliable or that I felt would be good for the article. --JDC808 ♫ 19:37, 10 December 2012 (UTC)