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Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Assessment/A-Class review/Interstate 470 (Ohio – West Virginia)

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Interstate 470 (Ohio – West Virginia) edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Interstate 470 (Ohio – West Virginia) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) review

Suggestion: Promote to A-Class
Nominator's comments: Wee two ACRs at once! Once again, I feel that this article meets the A-Class requirements, and would like to nominate it for such.
Nominated by: AdmrBoltz 19:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
First comment occurred: 20:41, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Review by Fredddie
  • Here are a number of comments I have. –Fredddie™ 21:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Infobox
  • The map has several issues.
    • The map has no background color at all.
    • The Ohio River is not shown.
    • The gray box around the zoomed out map is distracting; however, I may be swayed to not worry about this.
      • I have put in a request at the MTF to update the map. --AdmrBoltz 22:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • The map has been updated. --AdmrBoltz 02:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • West Virginia should be abbreviated (W. Va.) in the Major intersections section. Ohio is fine. I tend to follow the AP Stylebook when it comes to abbreviating state names.
  • |states= and |counties= can be added.
  • Are the state highway links necessary?
    • On other articles (e.g. I-80 Bus. have them). --AdmrBoltz 21:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair enough, but across the project it's inconsistent. –Fredddie™ 22:12, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Perhaps it should be discussed in more detail in another forum to see if we can find a consensus on the use of the browse box. --AdmrBoltz 22:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • Could be 50% longer in two paragraphs.
Route description
  • Belmont County should be linked since it's the first mention.
  • Doesn't Ohio use County Road instead of County Route?
  • "The highway curves to the southeast through woodlands, forming part of the northeastern corner of Neffs, paralleling then intersecting High Ridge Road, which to the north connects back to I-70, and provides access to Bellaire to the south." is awfully long. There should be a full stop after Neffs and a new sentence started. I wouldn't use present participles so much in either sentence, either. (forming → which forms, etc.)
  • "The freeway continues east through a valley..." I don't like through in this sentence. Was I-470 already in a valley, or did it descend into the valley?
  • "The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Bridge carries I-470 over three rail lines straddling the western banks of the river, belonging to Norfolk Southern Railway and Wheeling and Lake Railway, the Ohio River,[2] and into developed South Wheeling, Ohio County and the state of West Virginia.[3]" is another long sentence. The way it reads, one of the rail lines belongs to the Ohio River. Maybe mention who owns the rail lines in a separate sentence. Ohio County should also be linked.
  • "...three-level diamond interchange with US 250 and West Virginia Route 2 (WV 2) provides access to downtown Wheeling..." Shouldn't there be a ", which" between (WV 2) and provides?
  • You say "provides access" a lot, four times in the RD! In each paragraph, it's in consecutive sentences.
    • Yeah... Removed all but the one mentioned below. --AdmrBoltz 22:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...the town of the same name..." I don't necessarily like this wording, but I don't have any alternatives that are any better. Hopefully somebody else will come up with something that works.
    • I am not quite sure what to do with this either... --AdmrBoltz 22:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
History
  • Is there a yellow book map of I-470 plans? I know a number of auxiliary interstates have them, such as I-235.
    • Its linked in there, though I am switching the link out to the map on Commons, as the link returns a 403 Error like AA Roads has been from hotlinking... --AdmrBoltz 21:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was hoping this map could be added in. Move the picture that's in the history section to the RD. –Fredddie™
  • Was the bridge built before the rest of the freeway? It's not exactly clear.
    • No, it was one of the last portions built. I have historic Ohio maps I can use as sources for the OH part, but I have nothing for WV... The OH maps are in MrSID form, which I can not work with here at work, so I will look into it when I get home. --AdmrBoltz 22:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • The entire West Virginia section of I-470, including Ohio River bridge, shown as under construction on 1976 and 1980 WVDOH maps. Both shown as complete on 1983-1984 map. I don't have any maps from the period in-between (not sure if there even were any). Bitmapped (talk) 00:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any specific reason why Ohio was out of money?
    • Not that I saw, but they just finished their last gap in their IHS in 2006... they seem to have chronic issues with funding. --AdmrBoltz 21:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Don't have any documented sources to back it up, but I would guess that Ohio not really getting any benefit from I-470 has a lot to do with its delays in funding as well. The route primarily benefits West Virginia by bypassing Wheeling Tunnel. Only real benefit to Ohio is it has a direct interchange with SR 7 versus having to drive city streets in Bridgeport to get to I-70. Bitmapped (talk) 00:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • How large was the gas-tax increase?
    • Hrm... It seems in my moving sections around, the ref I am using has nothing to do with gas-tax increases... it was meant for the sentence before. Corrected references and   Done --AdmrBoltz 22:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • ''"...were solicited for in 1981, ..." For is redundant.
  • Odd that the source is in metric, but it is, so using metric first is correct. (just so others don't say it's wrong).
    • The NBI site provides all measurements in metric... one of the last remains of metrification I guess. --AdmrBoltz 21:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was the other route that was a Wheeling Tunnel detour? Should mention it on I-70 WV if you haven't already.
    • Added. And it is in the Wheeling Tunnel article, and I think it is in the I-70 article as well. --AdmrBoltz 22:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Exit list
  • Both ends of the route can't be a westbound exit and eastbound entrance.
    • Whoops, got to love copy and paste :p   Done --AdmrBoltz 21:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The See also section is redundant to {{3di}}. –Fredddie™ 01:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I struck out the issues that have been fixed. The lead could still be a bit longer. A secondary issue to adding the yellow book map of Wheeling is that it makes the history section look short. –Fredddie™ 04:54, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I added some from the older OH maps, and tweaked the lead. --AdmrBoltz 02:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. My major concerns have been addressed. The concerns I had remaining are minor. "Town of the same name" is just awkward, but so is saying Bethlehem twice within 5 words. We, as a project, should discuss the inclusion of state browsing links on articles like these. –Fredddie™ 17:29, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dough:

Resolved issues from Dough4872 00:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - I have some concerns with the article before I can support it for A-class:
  1. The states field in the infobox seems a little redundant to the state browse underneath.+
    Removed the {{oh browse}} and {{wv browse}} links. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The browse should be added back as it is essential. The |states=[[Ohio]], [[West Virginia]] is what needs to be removed. Dough4872 00:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      Done --AdmrBoltz 00:18, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    This is now inconsistent among the articles at ACR! –Fredddie™ 01:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I added back the states entry myself. Dough4872 00:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "The western terminus is at I-70 near Blaine, Ohio and the highway travels southeast over the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Bridge then northeasterly to the Wheeling neighborhood of Elm Grove." This sentence should make a mention of where the eastern terminus of the route is. In addition, this should be split into two sentences describing the termini and then the progression of the route.
    Tweaked. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Can a little more detail be added to the lead?
    Some added. My concern is that the lead should be a summary. I feel that it summarizes the article fairly well. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  4. "The freeway parallels then intersects" needs to be reworded.
    Tweaked. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  5. In the route description, can the abbreviation for US 40 be defined?
      Done --<font" color="black">AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    "National Road (U.S. Route 40 (US 40))" reads awkward, try "U.S. Route 40 (US 40, also known as the National Road)". Dough4872 00:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      Done --AdmrBoltz 00:18, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Can a link for Bethlehem, West Virginia be added to the route description?
    Added, though will try to rework the sentence per Fredddie's concerns with it. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  7. "the freeway terminates at an incomplete interchange with I-70 over Wheeling Creek.", can this be elaborated?
      Done --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Is it possible to find the construction cost of the freeway?
    As per my comments on the I-70 in WV ACR, I do not live in WV and do not have access to their library system. I have dug what I can out of the Google News archives for the region, but as a 3di it is not nearly as detailed as the information that I had available for the construction of I-70. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Is the date construction began on the WV part of the freeway known? Dough4872 23:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    No, see previous reply. --AdmrBoltz 23:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • West Virginia section is shown on 1976 WVDOH map as under construction. I don't have any older maps for comparison and WVDOH doesn't have data like this available online. Bitmapped (talk) 00:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it possible for this to be added to the article? Dough4872 01:43, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Bitmapped has added this information. --AdmrBoltz 20:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - My issues have been addressed. If any more historical information can be turned up, it would help to add it before taking to FAC. Dough4872 00:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues from Imzadi1979
General comments
  1. Regarding images, you'll want to ping 25or6to4 (talk · contribs) to add the correct GIS source for the map, add color key, etc.
    Key added, 25or6to4 pinged. --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The other images check out, although File:Interstate 470.jpg could use geotagging.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:17, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. "Map of the Wheeling area with I-470 highlighted in red" would be a better caption for the map in the infobox.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:17, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  4. DABs good
  5. ELs good
  6. Could use some ALT text.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:17, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  1. "By 1983, motorists could travel the full length of the freeway" That sentence just seems poorly constructed. Can it be reworded?
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:11, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. US 250 should be unabbreviated and the abbreviation put in parentheses. Unless I missed something, it's the first mention of a US Highway in the text.
    No, and I had US 40 unabbreviated in the end of the history...   Done --AdmrBoltz 05:11, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
RD
  1. First sentence could use a mention that you're talking about a location in Ohio, just for specificity.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "An exit ramp to County Road 28 provides travelers ..." should insert the {CR 28) abbreviation here.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. "The freeway briefly parallels High Ridge Road (County Road 214) ..." abbreviate in the parentheses. (Additionally, add the road name to the line in the exit list table for continuity.)
      Done --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Ping Dan and ask him if the "Ohio" is part of the "legal" name of state routes in the state. So long as the text is clear that you're still on the Ohio segment, if the state isn't part of the real name, then you don't need to repeat it in the text. That would remove a repetition with the state's name in the river name at the end of the sentence.
    Pinged. --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Removed Ohio per Dan's comment on his talk page. --AdmrBoltz 22:37, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  5. "The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Bridge carries I-470 over three rail lines straddling the western banks of the river, the Ohio River, and into developed South Wheeling, Ohio County and the state of West Virginia." Ok, well, I'm not sure I like "the river, the Ohio River" here. Reading that, I almost add emphasis to the name so it's "the river, the Ohio River, and into..." even though that's not what's intended.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  6. I'm tempted to say that in "The Ohio and West Virginia Departments of Transportation (ODOT and WVDOT)" the "departments of transportation" should be in lower case, just like "Marquette and Alger counties" has the common portion in lowercase. I'm not sure though. Looking at my AP Styleguide for some guidance, it agrees on the counties example (""Lowercase plural combinations: Westchester and Rockland counties"), but its plural example for government departments deals with two differently named units: "Lowercase department in plural uses, but capitalize the proper name element: the departments of Labor and Justice". Since the "transportation" name is common to both as well as the "department of" I'd drop the case on it as well, leaving only the states' names capitalized.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 19:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
History
  1. "Yellow Book" should be put in italics as well, and I'd shift the link to the full title from the nickname. Actually, I'd drop the Yellow Book name unless you're going to mention the book again.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "The West Virginia portion was under construction by 1976.[14] I-470 was completed by 1983 in both Ohio and West Virginia.[15][16]" I'd combine the two sentences, using fn 14 after the comma or semicolon that joins them. A second though would be to replace the states' names with "both states".
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. "about 518 meters (1,699 ft) of roadway" just seems quite odd to me. I'd use the disp=flip parameter, setting abbr=on if needed to keep the two measurements abbreviated for consistency with the rest of the article. Yes, I know that your source is given in metric, but it's still an American article.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 05:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
References
  1. Footnote 3 should have the hyphen switched to an en dash, removing the spaces in between the two years of the title. I'd unlike JPEG. It's not really needed as an explanation, I don't think.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Fn 5 should have a hyphen in I-470 in the title. Since the title doesn't really describe what it is, is there a section of the WVDOT website that you can use in the work= field to offer some understanding? For listings of historic bridges from the MDOT website, I use "Historic Bridge Listing" as the work field for that reason.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Fn 9 needs fixing. I'd ditch the link to ajfroggie.com and use the url field to link to the inset directly.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Fn 10–11, double check that ODOT was called ODOT at that time. If not, switch the publisher to whatever the department was named at the time.
    "the Ohio Department of Highways officially became the Ohio Department of Transportation in September 1972" --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Fn 18: "July/August" should be "July–August" with an en dash per MOS.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Fn 19 should have a location indicated since the city isn't part of the paper's name.
      Done --AdmrBoltz 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  7. For Fns 6 and 18, I'll try to pull the paper edition of the journal at the GRPL to get page numbers for you.
Overall, the article reads quite well. I can't find any glaring issues, just those minor formatting fixes. I agree though that I'd prefer some additional historical information from some dead-tree sources, but I think the article is fine in terms of content. Imzadi 1979 → 04:27, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support nothing obvious preventing me from supporting promotion. Imzadi 1979 → 01:31, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues from --PCB 05:41, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

  • Several sentences at the end of the lead to not link together very well. I'd suggesst a couple transitions.
  • What do you mean by alternate western terminus? Are you implying that the route splits? I'd consider rewording that.
  • "to the south links Bellaire to the loop." Are you referring to High Ridge Road?
    • The loop refers to I-470. I would use freeway, however in the same sentence I refer to I-70, and that would be a more confusing pronoun. --AdmrBoltz 05:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the valley have a name?
    • If I had this info, it would be in the article already. --AdmrBoltz 05:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps mention the rail lines before mentioning the bridge.
  • Could you specify which rocks became overstressed? The rocks beneath the freeway? The rocks that could potentially fall on the freeway?
  • Is there a cost anywhere for the freeway? Was the freeway constructed from west to east? East to west?
    • If I had this info, it would be in the article already. --AdmrBoltz 05:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you need to capitalize "troubled" and "bridge in ref 12.
  • Otherwise, the article looks pretty good. I'll be ready to support the article when the issues are addressed. --PCB 05:03, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I don't have any other issues with the article. --PCB 05:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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