Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/3rd Division (Australia)

I am requesting that this article be peer reviewed as I would like to see what it might require to take it up to GA status. Also, I freely admit to writing this one quickly, so I feel it needs a few pairs of eyes to find typos and grammatical errors (for which I humbly apologise in advance). Cheers. AustralianRupert (talk) 12:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Farawayman

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I have restricted my comments to the WWI part only. Some observations:

  • Possibly add: 24 / 25 March 1918 - Division was moved from R&R first to Doullens under command of X Corps and then later placed under Congreve's VII Corps command at Amiens.
  • Consider: 30 March: 11 Bde: ".....Australian commander estimating German losses to be in the "thousands" - Monash says 3,000.
    • Thanks, what are the details of Monash's book - I will try to see if I can get it from the library? AustralianRupert (talk) 06:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Monash, John Lt-Gen, Sir (1993) [1st. pub. 1920: Hutchinson & Co, London]. The Australian Victories in France in 1918. Imperial War Museum in association with Battery Press. ISBN 9780901627964.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  • Consider: 28 March: 3 Div lost 9th Bde to 61st Div and on 29th March received 15th Bde to replace the 9th Bde.
  • Possibly add sub-heading for 8 August actions: "Battle of Amiens," as this and Passchendaele Ridge can be considered to be the most important actions the Division was involved in WWI. Adding further sub-headings in the WWI section based on specific known actions or places could make the long section more readable.
  • Consider: 8 August: "...the attack was very successful and the division achieved all of its objectives." They apparently reached their first phase objectives by 7am! (Zero-Hour was 04:20)
  • Consider: ".... Throughout the rest of August, they continued offensive operations.." I think the 3rd Div were relieved on 13 Aug by 17th Div and went into Corps Reserve. It appears that they were only brought forward again on about 20 or 21 August.
  • Consider: Action at "St Quentin Canal" - possibly mention that it was the US 27th Div that "messed up"
  • After the St Quentin Canal action, Monash says "....it was impossible to call on the 3rd and 5th Div's for any further effort... their work had been most exhausting ... after 60 days of continuous battle... reduced fighting strength... that a very drastic re-organisation had become necessary. This could only be effected by a complete withdrawal from the fighting zone." So I think we can deduce that their WWI commitment ended on 2 Oct 1918.
    • The source I have says that elements of division's artillery were involved in further actions after 2 October 1918 in support of the Americans. They fired their last shot of the war on 4 November 1918. I will try to clarify this. AustralianRupert (talk) 06:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Try adding a second definitive source for the WWI section, only relying on Palazzo could be perceived as not giving a balanced view. Interesting history of a solid WWI formation; and well written! Farawayman (talk) 18:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

YellowMonkey

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Ian Rose

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Only given the article a cursory read but I can make the following comments:

Nick-D

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As usual for your work AR, this article is now of the highest quality. My comments and suggestions are:

  • It seems a bit confusing to say that the division existed between 1916 and 1991 in the second sentence given that the rest of lead discusses it being disbanded on three occasions.
    • I've tweaked the wording a little, do you think it reads more clearly now?
  • The chronology in the first para of the 'Formation and training' section is a bit unclear - it implies that the decision to form a '3rd Division' was made after the decision to raise units designated the '4th' and '5th' divisions - is this correct?
  • It might be worth providing some brief background on Monash the first time he's mentioned
  • In the second para of the 'Battle of Amiens, 1918' section it should be noted that battalions of other divisions were also disbanded. It might be worth noting (if you can find a source that says this!) that reducing the Australian brigades to three battalions would bring them in line with the British divisions they were serving alongside and that many of the battalions were grossly under-strength and battalions only in name anyway.
  • The article seems a bit unduly focused on the division's infantry component - there's little coverage of it's artillery for instance. David Horner's book The Gunners may have useful material on this topic if you can find a copy (if not please let me know - I should be able to borrow it from a local library)
  • It might be worth noting that the other CMF division (the 2nd) was disbanded during the Pentropic experiment but later re-raised (though I'm not sure when) Nick-D (talk) 08:06, 3 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]