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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Rheinmetall 120 mm gun

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rheinmetall 120 mm gun

edit

Just "finished" this article and looking to take it to A-class, which I believe can be done. JonCatalán(Talk) 17:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted --ROGER DAVIES talk 22:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support with a few references comments - big surprise, book sources are formatted perfectly.
  • However, I do have a few questions on the websites: you shorten late refs to "Jane's", but you have two Jane's in the references..."Armour and artillery" and "Defense Weekly".
  • Need to add (subscription) to some of those Jane's refs.
  • Ref #18 needs closed italics.
  • What is up with the beginning of "Background"? To the casual reader, it seems to have nothing to do with the gun until the 5th sentence!
  • Hope these helped. Cheers! —Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 04:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Everything to do with referencing should be fixed. The beginning of the background is meant to give a general idea of the situation with Soviet armor and why the 120mm gun came into being. I re-arranged the sentences so that, hopefully, it will be clearer. Thanks! JonCatalán(Talk) 09:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are welcome! Nice article! —Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 02:16, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

Lead

  • 'It was developed in response to Soviet advances in armor technology and the appearance of new armored threats' - I assume that means Soviet armoured threats, but it needs to be specified.
  • 'was soon exported to be used on tanks such as the American M1 Abrams and the Israeli Merkava tanks' - repetition
  • 'Over the years, it has also been exported to South Korea and Japan, as well as nations which have procured the Leopard 2 and the M1 Abrams' - don't need the first three words really, they're redundant
  • 'Rheinmetall's 120-millimeter (4.7 in) L/44 tank gun has a length of 5.28 meters (5.77 yd),' - Just 'The gun' is needed really, as otherwise this sentence and the following one don't make sense.'
  • 'However, by 1990 the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with modernized Soviet armor from the 1980s, such as the T-80B, which catalyzed an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament' - catalyzed isn't the right word; 'from the 1980s' isn't really needed.
  • 'This gun has already been retrofitted into German, Dutch Leopard 2s, while were installed brand-new in Spanish Leopard 2Es and Greek Leopard 2HELs.' - spelling and grammar, missing words.
  • 'Over the years of its existence' - Not sure bhow to reword this, but it does need rewording.
  • 'chemical energy anti-tank warheads' - wikilink?
  • 'The Israelis have also developed' - 'The Israeli Army'

Background

  • The first few sentences need to mention the gun system sooner than they do, really
  • 'The catalyst for the Soviet decision to increase the power of its tank's main armament had come when' - catalyst isn't needed here, just start with 'The Soviet decision'
  • From 'For example, at the fighting at Sultan Yakoub...', I get confused, and I'm not sure what this paragraph has to do with the development of the gun - perhaps reorganizing the section would be a good idea. To me, that paragraph actually seems to go against what you've been saying - that NATO feared the new Russian gun system, but Israeli tanks using a Western gun system were able to knock out Soviet-exported type tanks anyway.

Gun system

  • 'The bore evacuator and the gun's thermal sleeve, designed to regulate the temperature of the barrel, are fabricated out glass-reinforced plastic, while the barrel sports a chrome lining to increase barrel life.' - 'out of glass-reinforced plastic', and 'sports' isn't quite the right word.
  • 'However, with recent advances in propellant technology, the average barrel life has decreased to 260 rounds, from an original barrel life of anywhere between 400–500 rounds; in some cases, barrels have had to be replaced after only 50 fired projectiles.[21] The gun's recoil mechanism is composed of two hydraulic retarders and a hydropneumatic assembly.[5]' - Okay, the last sentence should go before the barrels being replaced bit, and the barrels replacement reads a bit wonky - I think stating the original barrel life and *then* the decreased life would be better
  • 'The gun, known as the M256, was based on Rheinmetall's 120-millimeter (4.7 in) L/44 tank gun, although manufactured at Watervliet Arsenal and modified to increase the resistance of the barrels to fracture and fatigue' - you don't need to repeat the whole name of the Rheinmetall gun, just call it the L/44
  • 'the Israeli gun retains the inner geometry of the barrel to allow commonality with German and American ammunition' - commonality needs to be reworded - 'to allow German and American ammunition to be used as well'
  • 'Due to tank sales, Rheinmetall's tank gun has also proliferated to other nations' - proliferated, whilst technically right, needs to be replaced.

Modernization

  • 'The new barrel is 55 calibers long' - is calibers a measurement term? Maybe it's just me being unfamiliar with the technology.

Ammunition

  • 'A variety of rounds have been developed for Rheinmetall's tank gun, around the world' - discard around the world, and integrate the following sentence as part of this first sentence.
  • 'The United States Armed Forces also accepted a new demolition round' - just the United States Army, instead?

This is a good article, and interesting, it just needs some adjustments made, then I'll support. Skinny87 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the lead should be copyedited with your suggestions. There's just a few things I didn't do, or did differently. I didn't think mentioning "Soviet" twice in the same sentence made it any clearer, so I changed it so that both statements were linked to "Soviet" (that way only mentioning it once in the sentence; I felt it was redundant, otherwise). I can't change Rheinmetall 120mm L/44 to "the gun", because the sentence mentions length, where the caliber length of the gun is very relevant (otherwise, am I talking about the L/44 or the L/55?). What's wrong with "catalyzed"? The only replacement word I can think of is "stimulated", and I see "catalyzed" as a more professional term to use.
I'm not sure, in the gun system section I should move the last sentence of the first paragraph in front of the sentence which talks about the chrome lining. That chrome lining sentence is relevant to the sentence before it (which introduces it), so splitting those two sentences will just make the text confusing. In regards to the sentence that has to do with commonality between American and German ammunition, commonality makes more sense than "it allows German and American ammunition to be used." Commonality explains more than the suggested change, and commonality suggests that the relationship goes both ways.
In regards to your question about the L/55, caliber as a length is wikilinked in the text before that section. One of the footnotes also explains the relationship. And finally, the M1 tank is used both by the Army and the Marines (i.e. Navy), so Armed Forces is more neutral. JonCatalán(Talk) 17:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Welp, you've certainly answered all of my points, and I can't see anything else I have a problem with, so changing to Support. Skinny87 (talk) 13:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support The Pharaoh - User:One last pharaoh (talk) 12:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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