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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/List of Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds recipients

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Closed / withdrawn by nominator -- Ian Rose (talk) 10:50, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds recipients edit

Nominator(s): Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)


I am nominating this article for A-Class review because, whilst I am not used to creating lists, I feel that the explanatory text and the list itself are comprehensive. This is made more difficult by the lack of a possible GA status to give me some indication. I would welcome your thoughts: the explanatory text is quite short, but I cannot think of what more to add. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments by MisterBee1966 (talk · contribs) before I can approve
  • table should be sortable for columns Name, Rank and Unit
  • use the {{Sortname|first|last}} template on the first name
  • the lang-de tamplate should be used on the first occurance of a German phrase, which is in the very lead
  • I think you need to present a page for the Fellgiebel and Scherzer references (I will look them up for you)
  • The lead is very short so far (only one sentence)
  • I think it would be good to mention who received the Medalla Militar
Thanks for your comments. The source I have doesn't mention which won the Medalla Militar, nor does there appear to be any sort of list online (I will try to find one, though). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:09, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I added the claimant count to the lead, but I can't think what else would be suitable. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:12, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another suggestion since some of the links are still red. You could change Kampfgruppe 88 (K/88—88th Combat or Bomber Group), Jagdgruppe 88 (J/88—88th Fighter Group), Aufklärungsgruppe 88 (A/88—88th Reconnaissance Group), Aufklärungsgruppe See 88 (AS/88—88th Sea Reconnaissance Group), Flakbteilung 88 (F/88—88th Anti Aircraft Artillery Group) and Nachrichtenabteilung 88 (LN/88—88th News or Signals Department). MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could also remove the Ref. column and put the citation in the "Name" header column. MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:30, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to keep the references column because that reference is for name, rank, and unit and this becomes unclear if it used in one column only. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding the image of the Spanish Cross in Silver in the upper right hand corner, the article is about recipients of the Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds. I think you should mention that the Award for the Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds is similar in appearance to the Spanish Cross in Silver. Of course it would be better to use the correct image but this may be difficult to find with appropriate license criteria. MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:16, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to categorize the article. Maybe under "Recipients of the Spanish Cross" ? MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:20, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It was instituted on 14 April 1939, in a document called the Statute of Spanish Crosses (Satzung des Spanien-Kreuzes) which defined the three levels of Spanish Cross (gold, silver and bronze) and the requirements to meet each."
    • I think the translation for Satzung des Spanien-Kreuzes could be improved to "Statute of the Spanish Cross". There is no plural in the original German wording.
    • What are the requirements? I read the law just now and it states that Hitler reserved the right to bestow the Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds without telling us what the criteria are. This differs from the other grades of the Spanish Cross
Changed the translation. My German is a bit ropey, but I assumed the Hitler was merely a 'catch all' phrase; that it wasn't important over all to the story of the Spanish Cross (given also that this is a list of recipients); that it was, in writing, what was already de facto the case. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:37, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by GraemeLeggett (talk · contribs)
  • repetition in table ref column - why not apply ref to table as a whole, then other points not covered by general ref are picked up by specific refs?
  • grammar could use polishing
  • wikilinks need checking over, several are going via redirects
  • italics for ranks
  • why pictures of the recipients? I'm not saying they are wrong per se but why?
  • notes column, why mention later awards and not some point relevant to their activity in the Spanish civil war or to subsequent activity as a result of Condor Legion role (eg von Thoma not being an aviator)?
GraemeLeggett (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Could I have an update? I've changed one thing so it doesn't redirect, the other two (names of the medal itself) are deliberate, in case such an article is ever written. The referencing has been moved to the three relevant column headers. I included the pictures because there was a reasonable number of them and was following the "List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipients" style. I was worried including details of service in the war might open a kettle of fish, but I've done some which I think is appropriate. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 15:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck a couple of points, as they've been addressed. I've added some Spanish civil war info to the entries and qualified some later awards by way of example. I don't know if its worth indicating how long they were active. For instance Molders only did about 6 months. GraemeLeggett (talk) 09:04, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • A very short source review: Be consistent in whether you include countries in location information for book sources. Eisfbnore • talk 04:02, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was aiming to use them only when it was otherwise confusing or unknown, but have followed the suggestion of using them in all cases anyway. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:25, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
    • No dabs [1] and external links check out [2] (no action required).
    • Images lack alt text [3], although its not a requirement you might consider adding it (suggestion only).
    • The Citation Check tool reveals no errors (no action required).
    • The Earwig Tool reveals no issues with copyright violation or close paraphrasing [4] (no action required).
    • Where possible we are meant to avoid using citations in the lead of an article (as long as the information appears in the body with a citation). As such I would suggest adding the infomation about the Condor Legion to the body and expanding it a little to provide context for the casual reader who may know little about the Spanish Civil War and German involvement in it.
    • This isn't a good way to start a sentence IMO: "It was instituted on 14 April 1939". Perhaps "The Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds was instituted on 14 April 1939..."
    • Inconsistency in the presentation of isbns. Some have hyphens and others dont. Probably best to pick a style and apply it through out. Anotherclown (talk) 05:51, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk) 03:58, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in a document called the Statute of the Spanish Cross (Satzung des Spanien-Kreuzes)": Normally, a "document" would have to have the "officialness" and length of a small book to earn the italics; otherwise, quote marks would be better. The italics on the German translation are right.
  • "the three levels of Spanish Cross": of the Spanish Cross, for consistency
  • "... Jagdgruppe 88 (J/88) with three squadrons of Heinkel He 51 fighters. They were supported by the reconnaissance Aufklärungsgruppe 88 (A/88), its maritime division, the Aufklärungsgruppe See 88 (AS/88), an anti-aircraft artillery group, the Flakbteilung 88 (F/88), and a signals group, the Nachrichtenabteilung 88 ...": Opinions differ on how much untranslated German is too much ... but that's too much. - Dank (push to talk) 03:58, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Withdrawn by nominator (if a coord could possibly effect that for me, I'd be grateful). I've got other things coming up and I'm not particularly happy with the list. I've taken the comments here into consideration, and acted on most. They haven't been wasted, and I might be back again with it, I'm not sure. Thanks for you input, Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:06, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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