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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/John F. Bolt

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Closed/promoted -- Ian Rose (talk) 02:15, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

John F. Bolt edit

Nominator(s): —Ed!(talk)


I am nominating this article for A-Class review. It's about a celebrated US Marine Corps aviator of WWII and Korea. —Ed!(talk) 22:41, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments: I've done a bit of copy editing work on this article. Please check that you are happy with my edits, and adjust if necessary. I have the following other comments, which are issues I wasn't able to resolve during my work on the article.

  • due to the size of the table of contents, there is currently a large amount of white space between the lead and the rest of the article. You might consider using a TOC limiter such as "{{TOC limit|2}}";
    • Tried it. It does look good. Thanks! —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • this is inconsistent: in the Aerial victories section: "12 confirmed aerial victories during his career, with an additional "probable" victory and two aircraft damaged" but "scored a total of six confirmed victories and three probable victories" in the Vela Lavella section (the inconsistency is in the number of probables);
    • Both are cited to a reliable source. One source probably assumed the damaged aircraft were likely destroyed. —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Understood, however, my concern is that readers will see the inconsistency and question the reliability of this article. As such I feel that it needs to be worded in a way that identifies the discrepancy. Perhaps try changing the opening of the Aerial victories section to: "Bolt scored a total of 12 confirmed aerial victories during his career. In addition, depending upon the source, he is credited with between one and three "probable" victories, with two of these sometimes being listed as "damaged"." AustralianRupert (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • this section is confusing: "Bolt left for basic training with the United States Navy in June 1941. Though he intended to join the US Marine Corps, he signed up for the Navy Flight Training Program, which would allow him to fly for the Marines. He was selected to be a pilot in November 1941". (Specifically the part about how he was selected as a pilot in November 1941, when the earlier section says he joined in April 1941 "to train as a pilot". The second sentence also seems awkward, but I couldn't think of a way to reword it);
  • "weighing hundreds of pounds, while diving in Florida's Tampa Bay" ("weighing hundreds of pounds" sounds quite imprecise. Is there a precise weight that could be added?);
    • Unfortunately no, I can't find an exact weight on the fish. —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I won't hold it against the article, but it seems a little counter-intuitive. One would think that if it was a world record, it would be recorded accurately somewhere. What about the Guiness Book of World Records, or something like that? AustralianRupert (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • The Guiness book did not exist at the time. And I really can't find anything online, we would probably have to go through a local newspaper archive, something I don't have access to. —Ed!(talk) 01:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • this doesn't work: "This apparently angered some of his commanders in VMF-115, and Bolt completed a requisite six weeks of duty with the wing prior to its next R&R". Specificially the sentence is structured using a co-ordinating conjunction "and" which implies that the second part of the sentence is dependent upon the first, however the really don't seem to be linked. Do you perhaps mean: "This apparently angered some of his commanders in VMF-115, and as a result Bolt only completed six weeks of duty with the wing before it went on R&R"? Depending on your meaning, this might also work: "This apparently angered some of his commanders in VMF-115, nevertheless Bolt managed to complete six weeks of duty with the wing before to its next R&R".
  • the red in the table in the Aerial victory section looks a bit hard on the eye. Just a suggestion, but I think it would be better to make it a similar colour to that of the infobox for consistency of style;
    • Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Okay, thanks, I've changed the colour of the headings to black as white writing on a light blue background is really hard to read, in my opinion. I've also changed the the background to something a little closer to the infobox colour. Feel free to revert if you disagree. Regards AustralianRupert (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bolt had shot down two of the MiGs after firing 1,200 rounds of ammunition, a relatively difficult feat". ("a relatively difficult feat" seems subjective and unclear as to what it actually means, i.e. what was difficult - shooting down the two planes or firing the 1,200 rounds?);
    • Worded it more objectively. —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • this sounds awkward: "he was a law instructor". Do you mean "law professor"?
  • this seems contradictory: in the lead "He continued to be active in law until his death from leukemia in 2004", but in the Later life section "He retired from law in 1991". AustralianRupert (talk) 15:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed everything. Thanks for your review! —Ed!(talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

  • Mostly copyediting bits:
  • " Bolt was elected Class President his final two years" - a missing "in" here
  • " Bruce Bolt also enrolled in Florida," - "at Florida"?
  • "paying US$ 500 a year to do so" - "paying him"?
  • " The two would marry after two years of dating.[4] They would subsequently have two children together, Robert and Barbara" - these two sentences could be joined, which would make them flow better.
  • " Aviator wings " - is the capitalisation right here?
  • " the "Black Sheep" because of their status as officers without other units" - I didn't quite understand this bit
  • "and the fight was soon on" - felt a bit informal in tone
  • " .50 cal guns" - the abbreviation of calibre felt odd here
  • "R&R" - probably needs to be expanded on its first use
  • Worth checking if all the captions with full stops are in fact complete sentences.
  • "Bolt is only non-USAF pilot" - missing "the" Hchc2009 (talk) 17:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed. I think that's everything. Thanks for your review! —Ed!(talk) 01:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support, although I'd like to see a reference for note 1. Images check out. I realise that the public domain Marines source is a template, but it's not clear which work. Is it one listed? Else, could we mention it? (I'm trusting the above on prose.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 11:57, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)

  • I'm with Grandiose, I'd like to know which parts of the text come from which PD sources. - Dank (push to talk) 23:01, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To both: I put the PD template in for the Medal of Honor citation. The rest of the text is entirely sourced to references. The reason I put the PD temp in is because, though I got the exact prose of the citation from a book, it is in its entirety a work of the government. I thought it was a large enough block of text to need that disclaimer there legally. If this is/is not appropriate let me know, as I include this template on all Mil Bios where I include the citation for an award. Never had a comment about it, though. —Ed!(talk) 02:28, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ed. I'm not getting any hits on "honor" (except "honor society") ... are we talking about the Navy Cross citation? - Dank (push to talk) 19:37, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, yeah the Navy Cross citation. —Ed!(talk) 18:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per WP:ALLCAPS, which Garner's agrees with, rewrite the telegram quote, your choice of lowercase or title case. - Dank (push to talk) 19:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At this point, Bolt began dating Dorothy E. Wiggins,": It's hard to know where to put all this stuff, but in the middle of this paragraph doesn't seem like the best place for it. Maybe it could go in a paragraph of its own.
  • "subsequently": search for this word throughout and consider whether you can do without it.
    • Replaced a few instances of it. Now there's only one in the lead and the prose. —Ed!(talk) 18:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On completion of his initial training in November 1941, he was selected as a pilot, ... After completing his initial training, Bolt was moved to Jacksonville Naval Air Station ...": Don't call both "initial training".
  • "After completing his initial training, Bolt was moved to Jacksonville Naval Air Station for the next phase, where he started flight training in the AT-6 Texan. He also qualified to fly in the N3N Canary trainer aircraft. After this training, his final phase of training occurred in Opa Locka Naval Air Station in Miami, Florida, where he trained on the Grumman F3F, a biplane which was the Navy's most advanced trainer at the time. Bolt completed this training ...": Search throughout for "train" and see what you can do.
    • Fixed as many as I could, but "training" in many of these instances can't be avoided since trainer aircraft and training phases go by specific names. —Ed!(talk) 18:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "July 18, 1942": search throughout for second commas after dates and geographical names, where they're needed.
  • "at which time": Garner's recommends ditching this phrase for "when". - Dank (push to talk) 21:23, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Otherwise, So far so good on prose per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, at John_F._Bolt#Formation of VMF-214. - Dank (push to talk) 21:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for your review! —Ed!(talk) 18:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentsSupport
    • No dab links [1] (no action required).
    • External links all check out [2] (no action required).
    • Most of the images lack Alt Text so you might consider adding it [3] (suggestion only - not an ACR requirement).
    • The Citation Check Tool reveals no errors with reference consolidation (no action required).
    • The images used are all PD and are appropriate to the article (no action required).
    • Is there a reason there is no caption on the photo in the infobox?
    • This is a little repetitive: "Bolt stayed in the Marine Corps until 1962, serving as an analyst and instructor in his later career, before retiring and later earning a Juris Doctor..." (use of the word later twice in the same sentence). Perhaps reword one?
    • This is awkward to me: "Bolt completed this training on July 18, 1942 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the US Marine Corps, with his aviator wings pinned that day as well." Perhaps consider something like: "Bolt completed this training on July 18, 1942 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the US Marine Corps, receiving his aviator wings the same day..."?
    • Overlinking and repetition here: "The bombers had been followed by 20–30 Zeroes and a dogfight quickly ensued.[13] During the course of the ensuing dogfight over..." Specifically linking and use of dogfight twice.
    • Also repetitive: "Although they did not spot Boyington, they engaged a flotilla of Japanese barges they spotted..." Specifically "spot" and "spotted" in the same sentence. Perhaps reword one?
    • Some redundancy in the "Exchange and Combat section": "This brought his tally of confirmed victories during the war to six and in doing so he became the 37th of 40 US flying aces in the war, and the last of the seven aces who were double aces from World War II.[26] For these actions Bolt became the final Marine aviator to be awarded the Navy Cross during the war.[31] Bolt is the only non-USAF pilot to become an ace in the F-86 and the only naval aviator to become an ace in two wars." This infomation is also mentioned later in the article in the "Aerial victory credits" section. Seems no need to mention it twice, perhaps remove it from one of the sections? Anotherclown (talk) 23:19, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fixed. Thanks for your review! —Ed!(talk) 18:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • All my points have been dealt with, adding my support now. Anotherclown (talk) 11:56, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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