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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Japanese aircraft carrier Zuihō

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 09:20, 23 August 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Japanese aircraft carrier Zuihō edit

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Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 (talk)

Japanese aircraft carrier Zuihō (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Zuihō was originally laid down as a submarine tender, but was converted into a light aircraft carrier before the Pacific War began. She did not participate in the opening campaigns of the war, but did play a minor role in the Battle of Midway. The ship did participate in most of the aerial battles during the Guadalcanal Campaign, sometimes with her air group disembarked. She was not damaged during the Battle of the Philippine Sea in 1944, but was sunk during the following Battle of Cape Engano when she served as a diversion for the surface striking forces. I've recently updated this elderly GA and would like for reviewers to look for unexplained or unlinked jargon and badly worded phrases in expectation of an eventual FAC.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Kges1901 edit

Nice to see a relatively famous ship up for ACR.

  • In the infobox, Zuihō should be under ship name since the Auspicious Phoenix refers to that name, and Takasaki can be mentioned under laid down

Design and conversion

  • Was Zuihō's conversion a result of attempts to circumvent the Washington Treaty tonnage limits?
    • Yes, but that's best reserved for the class article.
  • Draft, beam, and length are rounded in the infobox but not in the body
  • As part of her conversion, her original diesel engines, which had given her a top speed of 29 knots (54 km/h; 33 mph), were replaced by a pair of destroyer-type geared steam turbine sets with a total of 52,000 shaft horsepower(39,000 kW), each driving one propeller. Steam was provided by four water-tube boilers and Zuihō now had a maximum speed of 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph). The boilers exhausted through a single downturned starboard funnel and she carried enough fuel oil to give her a range of 7,800 nautical miles (14,400 km; 9,000 mi) at a speed of 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph) - Suggest rewriting for concision to split the clauses about top speed into their own sentence following the explanation of the conversion as a one knot difference in speed really doesn't need to explained in that many words and the first sentence is inordinately long. The information about the number of boilers and the funnel can be in a separate sentence with the sentence about the range following it.
    • See how it reads now
  • but she was not fitted with an aircraft catapult redundant 'she'
  • Not having an island is inherent in flush deck carriers, and this sentence might be better if it were before the flight deck details
  • Gun caliber conversions are in the infobox but not in the body

Service

  • On 13 October she was briefly assigned to the 11th Air Fleet in Formosa --> She was briefly assigned to the 11th Air Fleet in Formosa on 13 October
  • I think that it is mentioning that the Zeroes she was ferrying to Davao were from the 11th Air Fleet (per TROM)
  • There are also changes in assignment during the early war period mentioned in the TROM but not in the article
    • Yeah, I clean forgot to review the TROM before nom'ing this. You know what they say about assumptions...
  • Suggest spelling out at least numbers up to 9 in this section as you've spelled out the small numbers in the design section
  • Another nitpick - "Zero" should be in quotes the first time mentioned as with "Kate", overlinking of Zero
  • Per TROM her aircraft chased off US scouts on 6 June during Midway, so I think that Midway warrants more than one sentence in the body. According to the index of Parshall & Tully's book Shattered Sword, Zuihō is mentioned on twenty different pages
    • See how it reads now.
  • Suggest mentioning that the refit in July-August 1942 was at Sasebo per TROM
  • and left Truk 10 days later --> departed ten days later
  • Curious as to what the carrier division did between leaving Truk and Santa Cruz Islands
    • Shokakus and Zuikaku did stuff, but no mention of Zuiho's activities during this time in my sources
  • USS Enterprise - One usage of 'USS' in the text while USS is not included for other USN vessels
  • They shot down 3 each Grumman - Suggest rewording this sentence
  • damaged her flight deck enough that she could not conduct flight operations --> put her flight deck out of action
    • Good idea
  • Note that she remained at Truk during the period her fighters were transferred (per TROM)
  • By this time, Zuihō was assigned to the First Carrier Division with Shōkaku and Zuikaku and they sailed for Eniwetok Atoll on 18 September for training and to be in position to intercept any attacks by American carriers in the vicinity of Wake Island and the Marshall Islands area. - Suggest splitting this monster of a sentence
  • Suggest splitting the overly long first paragraph in the Philippine Sea section
  • Link Guimaras island
  • spotted Task Force 58 --> spotted the American Task Force 58
    • No, it's mentioned that the Japanese were searching for the Americans a couple of sentences earlier.
  • For consistency, suggest you keep spelling out the carrier division numbers in the Philippine Sea section
  • This consisted of --> The strike group consisted of
  • Inconsistent usage of A6M2 and Zero
    • Intentional.
  • turned away to the northwest to regroup and to refuel and the Americans turned west to close the distance --> turned away to the northwest to regroup and refuel, while the Americans turned west to close the distance
    • Good idea
  • The Commons cat for Zuihō contains several good images of her at Cape Engano, suggest adding a couple and moving the sinking photo down to the last paragraph

More later. Kges1901 (talk) 00:10, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • they did not discover the Americans --> they did not find the Americans
  • While they sank the carrier --> While the American attack sank the carrier
  • was not attacked The TROM says that Zuiho was in an AA action on 20 June so that suggests that she was at least near the attack. Suggest changing this to escaped unscathed
  • Because of the above, I think File:Japanese Carrier Division Three under attack.jpg is appropriate for this section
  • By the end of the battle, Ozawa only had 34 intact aircraft at the end of the battle Remove one of those extra clauses
  • Are the unadopted Sho-Go 3 and 4 significant enough to mention here as they aren't directly relevant to the ship?
  • Standardize on either 653rd Air Group (used above) or Air Group 653
  • Most of these aircraft Unclear what 'these' refers to given the previous sentence, suggest Most of the aircraft sent to land bases
  • lost for little gain --> fruitlessly lost
  • Admiral Toyoda --> Toyoda
  • Zuihō's role in Shō-Gō 1, together with Chiyoda, Chitose and Zuikaku and the rest of the Main Body of the 1st Mobile Fleet This could be more concisely explained as Zuiho and the rest of Ozawa's carrier force (technically Ozawa's force had a screen as well but the carriers were the primary bait) Suggest Under the plan, Zuiho and the rest of Ozawa's carrier force were to approach Leyte Gulf from the north as a diversion from two other forces approaching from the south and west, with all three forces converging on the gulf on 25 October as a replacement for this sentence
  • 26 B6N and 4 B5N torpedo bombers We already know that Jills and Kates are torpedo bombers. In this sentence, there is also the inconsistency that all types except the Zero are referred to by their IJN designations
    • I don't see an issue with this. Lundstrom uses Zero and the Japanese designations in his books.
  • The Americans were preoccupied dealing with the other Japanese naval forces and defending themselves from air attacks launched from Luzon and Leyte and could not spare any aircraft to search for the Japanese carriers until the afternoon. --> Preoccupied with the other Japanese naval forces and land-based air attacks, the Americans could not spare any aircraft to search for the Japanese carriers until the afternoon
  • They finally found them at 16:05 --> The American aircraft spotted them at 16:05
  • Link SB2C Helldiver. Thanks to previous mentions it is already known that Hellcats are fighters and Avengers are torpedo bombers
  • Note Kuwa and Ise were also part of Ozawa's (Northern) force
    • Why do you think that this is important? I'd expect ships from Ozawa's force to do the rescuing.
  • If you haven't seen it yet, the Japanese Wiki article cites this document on JACAR for information that the Zuiho was renamed on 15 December 1940

Done with my review. Kges1901 (talk) 12:11, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good to have you back in the saddle. See if my changes are satisfactory.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:57, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentSupport by CPA-5 edit

  • consisted of eight 40-caliber 12.7-centimeter (5 in) Type 89 dual-purpose guns in twin Sea blue here.
  • fighters to Davao City, Philippines for the 11th Pipe the Philippines to the Japanese occupation of the Philippines's article.
  • Link Guam.
  • was en route to Guimares Island in the central
    • The Guimares's link is a redirect and goes to the Guimarães's article in Portugal.
      • Good catch, I hadn't noticed the different spelling between the English and the Filipino names.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In between battles, the ship served as a aircraft A typo in the "a" part.
  • and each side launched air strikes Merge air strikes.
  • on launching his air strikes early the following Same as above.
  • consorts were intended to draw the attentions of the Americans you mean just attention?
  • conducted their air strikes without disruption Merge air strikes.
  • carriers launched a follow up wave of 13 B5Ns Follow up needs a hyphen.
  • While the air strike was still forming up Merge air strikes.
  • battleships and the air strike was diverted Same as above.
  • launched three aircraft at 12:00 to search east You mean noon?
    • Yes, but 24-hour time, not 12-hour time
  • ordered an air strike launched Merge air strikes.
  • and Ozawa ordered an air strike launched Same as above.
  • Halsey ordered an air strike of 60 Hellcats Same as above.
  • A fourth wave of American aircraft attacked --> "The fourth wave of American aircraft attacked"

That's anything from me. And happy Assumption of Mary and Mother's day. Cool sidenote in my home province it is today a public holiday. Other parts in Belgium don't celebrate them as a public holiday. Something unique in my home province. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 21:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All done. So is there a special name for people from the province, but not the city?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:03, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not really as far as I know. I do know that here in my home city we've to nicknames of people. The first is called sinjoor (plural: sinjoren) which came from the Spanish occupier's hundreds of years ago. It means someone from and born in Antwerp and he/she has parents from the city as well. Some even describe the word sinjoor as someone who's born between the Scheldt and the De Leien. I'm not a sinjoor I'm a pagadder (also a nickname) which means someone from outside the city (or the De Leien) or one or both parents are not from the city, while you are born in the city. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:45, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Kees08 edit

  • The National Archives and NHHC are not the same thing - one is a Federal government organization for archives and NHHC is the USN's historical command, but this is irrelevant because the National Archives record group 80-G (which the image is from) is for official USN material, so it is still PD. Kges1901 (talk) 19:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Okay, that makes sense, I was wondering if the license for PD should be National Archives or USN (since the image says it should be National Archives), but probably either is fine. Kees08 (Talk) 02:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Japanese aircraft carrier Zuihō.jpg publication date? Also, possible to get more clear source information?
    • Pub date isn't relevant because it was taken before 1947 and it's not in copyright in the US. I don't know anything more about it than appears here. There are a bunch of high-quality photographs of IJN ships held by museums in Japan, some of which have been published. I don't know if this has or hasn't.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 13:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • The warning on the license template (If the photograph was also published in the United States within 30 days after publication in Japan, it might be copyrighted. If the copyright has not expired in the U.S, this file will be deleted. See Commons:Hirtle chart.) is what tripped me up. But it looks like the second license template addresses that, so should be good there. Kees08 (Talk) 02:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Should be all. Kees08 (Talk) 18:53, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing these and to Kges1901 for fixing the links before I got to them.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:41, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Think we should be good on all these now. Kees08 (Talk) 02:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
<Montgomery Burns voice>Excellent!</voice>--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM edit

This article is in great shape. I have a few (mostly prose-related) comments:

  • in the lead, " in thisthat campaign"
  • suggest "after repairs, Zuihō covered the evacuation of Japanese forces from Guadalcanal in early 1943."
  • "mid- to late 1943"→"mid- to late-1943"
  • "Attack on Pearl Harbor"→"attack on Pearl Harbor"
  • "Main Body"→"main body" it is a generic term and there are a few of these
    • It's not generic for the Japanese as they often broke down their fleets into a van, a main body and a support force for an operation and used the terms formally. Most every source capitalizes these terms for them and I've followed suit.
    That's fine, just be consistent, there is a main body a bit further down. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "six each Mitsubishi A5M "Claude" and A6M2 "Zero" fighters"→"six Mitsubishi A5M "Claude" and six A6M2 "Zero" fighters"
  • "with the carriers Shōkaku and Zuikaku"
  • "and departed from Truk 10 days later" if that is what is meant?
    • No other place name is mentioned after her arrival at Truk, so what else could be meant?
    It doesn't say she arrived in Truk on 1 October, is says she sailed to Truk. I read it as "departing Sasebo". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Imperial Japanese Army
  • "26 October duringat the opening of the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands"
  • "The aircraft passedencountered each other"
    • No, encounter doesn't do justice to what actually happened as several squadrons from each side never saw the other side despite flying the same courses as the other squadrons of that did see their opponents. And Zuiho's escorting fighters actually abandoned their charges.
    But they didn't just pass them, did they? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Most did actually. IIRC, there were 30-odd Japanese fighter escorts and only Zuiho's and a few others attacked. None of the American fighters attacked any of Zuiho's aircraft, merely alerting their carriers that an air raid was inbound.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with the carriers Jun'yō and Zuikaku"
  • link Kyushu
  • link Light aircraft carrier
    • Linked in the lede.

That's all I have. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:05, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. See if my changes suit.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:08, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of responses above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:25, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

  • All references formatted uniformly
  • References are high quality, produced by experts in the field
  • Conducted a few spot checks, nothing gives cause for concern about close paraphrasing/plagiarism. Parsecboy (talk) 14:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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