Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/William Bliss Baker
William Bliss Baker edit
Previous peer reviews:
It's been nearly five years since the previous peer review in April 2007, and the article has changed significantly (diff) (gained about 10k in content). I'd like opinions on where the article stands now: Does it meet B-class standards? If not, what needs to be done to bring it up to that level? I've gone out of my way to include a lot of sources (as many as I've been able to find). I'm working on getting additional sources, but the going is slow as I try to find articles and other references which discuss this lesser-known but important artist.
Thanks for your time! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 08:24, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- I'd removed the characterization of several paintings as masterpieces, because they were unsourced and seemed a bit hyperbolic. Generally such a description--a fairly profound assessment--would seem to require sources of greater reliability than those provided. Bentley's article provides helpful information [1], but there is no indication that he is an expert whose assessment is valuable, and his article was written for an advertising publication [2]. Perhaps more dubious is the inclusion of the St. Bonaventure page as a source, which is aimed primarily at selling prints of the painting--the use of the term 'masterpiece' has a decidedly commercial application there [3]. Otherwise this is a well researched and written article. Bringing it to B-class may be difficult, given that the most voluminous scholarship on Baker--and there's not a lot--comes from 19th century sources. It would help if there was at least one major article about him from a recent publication--his work merits rediscovery. JNW (talk) 09:48, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- How do you cite a plaque at a museum? The Fallen Monarchs display at the museum where it's housed states it's considered his masterpiece as well. I don't know that I'd discount commercial sources describing two of his paintings as masterpieces, either, as those are the only two of his works I've seen described that way, including in other commercial sources showing others of his works. I agree with your assessment of finding reference materials on his works; it has been quite difficult to find what I've included in the article. It took almost 5 years to find his birthdate. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 10:29, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- I'd err on the side of caution and not describe it as such, unless the museum's text was written by an acknowledged scholar in the field. And I flat don't put much value in the overtly commercial sources--I think they're rather meaningless. When I include a laudatory description, as at May Night (Willard Metcalf painting), it's a direct quote taken from a preeminent scholar in the field--I may or may not even agree, but it's solid ground. The fact that he's been largely ignored by scholars and historians for the last century makes it all the more important to cite one or more 'heavyweight' sources when referring to works as masterpieces. The bigger picture is that you've done an excellent job hunting up information on a veritable ghost. JNW (talk) 10:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- I've found a few other refs, including one showing he was considered a well known landscape artist (per a well known art critic of the time). I've removed the "masterpiece" descriptor from the "Morning" paragraph, but I'm still hunting down more refs for the description of "Fallen Monarchs" as I've seen that painting described as the masterpiece in multiple places. Just have to find them now. Thanks for the comments and suggestions. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:43, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- I'd err on the side of caution and not describe it as such, unless the museum's text was written by an acknowledged scholar in the field. And I flat don't put much value in the overtly commercial sources--I think they're rather meaningless. When I include a laudatory description, as at May Night (Willard Metcalf painting), it's a direct quote taken from a preeminent scholar in the field--I may or may not even agree, but it's solid ground. The fact that he's been largely ignored by scholars and historians for the last century makes it all the more important to cite one or more 'heavyweight' sources when referring to works as masterpieces. The bigger picture is that you've done an excellent job hunting up information on a veritable ghost. JNW (talk) 10:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- How do you cite a plaque at a museum? The Fallen Monarchs display at the museum where it's housed states it's considered his masterpiece as well. I don't know that I'd discount commercial sources describing two of his paintings as masterpieces, either, as those are the only two of his works I've seen described that way, including in other commercial sources showing others of his works. I agree with your assessment of finding reference materials on his works; it has been quite difficult to find what I've included in the article. It took almost 5 years to find his birthdate. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 10:29, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Personally I think the introduction is a bit long relative to the size of the article. It should serve as a summary and anything else moved into the body of the article. For example, a suggested intro could be:
- William Bliss Baker (November 27, 1859 – November 20, 1886) was an American artist born in New York City who began his studies and career just as the Hudson River school was winding down. Baker began his studies in 1876 at the National Academy of Design, where he studied with well-established artists such as Bierstadt and de Haas. His paintings were created using oils and watercolors, including several works done in black and white. While Baker is relatively unknown to the general public, his works are considered "characteristic[ally] American" and done with "amazing skill." Baker completed over 130 paintings in his career.
The info about his summer house and the cause of his death should definitely not be part of the introductory summary IMO Sionk (talk) 13:49, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- I've shortened the lead a bit, though I'm hesitant to shorten it any further. I think two short paragraphs is good for the length of the article. Thanks for the comments and suggestions. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:43, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I just expanded the bio a bit, as well as rearranged it a bit to flow better. Thoughts? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
- The first paragraph should say why he is notable. It doesn't now, and leaves the reader wondering why there is an article about him on Wikipedia? The easiest fix is to rearrange the sentences. FurrySings (talk) 08:01, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
- I added "award-winning" to indicate notability. Which awards are explained later in the article and in the infobox. Thanks for your time! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Any additional comments or suggestions? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)